Today we're going to talk about the deep

hurt. Now, this is something that I sort

of referenced in a video from a couple

of months ago. And this concept of like

this hurt that I feel that's like deep

deep deep inside of me. Some of us have

like the deep hurt inside that the

people without the deep hurt like don't

understand. And no matter how good my

life becomes, and my life is fantastic,

like don't get me wrong. I'm loved by

many people. I love many people. Uh, I'm

financially somewhat stable at the

moment. My health is there for the most

part. I've got kids. I don't have to

worry about paying my bills every month.

So, I have I It's great. Like, I play

video games and everything in my life is

good. But despite the fact that my life

is amazing in so many ways, there is

something like deep in here that hurts

and hurts a lot and never seems to get

better. And that's what we're going to

talk about today. So when I talked about

the deep hurt, it resonated very deeply

with some like some part of the

audience. And the really interesting

thing is that many of these people who

feel the deep hurt had also fixed a lot

of things in their life. And when I sit

with patients, it's so fascinating

because a key part of the deep hurt is

that it doesn't get better with healing.

Sometimes it actually gets more intense.

So when someone has, let's say, has been

traumatized and has a diagnosis of PTSD,

PTSD affects us on so many different

levels. It literally alters our

physiology. So our our tendency to

release adrenaline, to release cortisol,

that goes up. We have a very low

threshold for our physiologic system to

go into panic mode. It also works on an

emotional level, right? So if I have a

patient who has depression, we know that

there are certain parts of their brain

that will be like hyperactive in terms

of experiencing negative emotion. So if

we look at mental illness, it exists at

the physiologic level, at the emotional

level, at the cognitive level, we'll

have certain repetitive patterns of

thinking, right? We have certain

cognitive biases or certain beliefs

which are really really like concrete

and hard to get rid of. I'm a loser.

It's hopeless. There's no point. These

these beliefs are really kind of set in

stone. The interesting thing is that

when we do psychiatry with people, this

stuff gets better, right? So, we have a

guide to trauma and guide to depression

where we talk about all that kind of

stuff. But what really excited me about

making Dr. K's guide to depression is

this other stuff. It's the stuff that

isn't a part of psychiatry. The stuff

that is a little bit more existential, a

little bit more philosophical, a little

bit more spiritual. And when I work with

my patients and we do the work of

healing, there's a wound that remains no

matter what. So I had a patient who had

borderline personality disorder which is

characterized by an unstable sense of

self. People feel this like emptiness

inside. So most human beings walk around

the planet and they have a sense of who

they are, but people with BPD feel this

like core emptiness. And the cool thing

is we have evidence-based treatment for

BPD. So we did that for a while. Patient

got way better, was starting to live

their life, started to feel happy on the

cognitive level, on the emotional level,

on the physiologic level. They started

to improve, did yoga and taichi and all

this stuff. And one day they came into

my office and they said, you know, I had

a really fascinating conversation. We

were seeing each other like basically

once a month now because they were

relatively stable. They said, "I I went

and I talked to my grandfather and I was

telling him about like my treatment and

I was telling him, you know, I'm still

working on it and like this this

emptiness inside me wasn't quite an

emptiness. It had changed from emptiness

to like a deep sense of suffering. I

turned to my, you know, grandfather and

I was telling him like that feeling is

still there and he's like, "Oh, like

I've had that my whole life. It's always

been there, right? That doesn't get

better. That's just the way life is."

Some of us, there are some people like

us who just have this deep ache deep

inside of us that will never get better.

That's the deep part. So, this is going

to be a little bit weird because this is

not something that we understand

scientifically. So, this is something

where I'm going to explain a lot of

different possibilities, but ultimately

like this work is going to have to be

done by you, right? So y'all are going

to have to listen to this and share your

experience of it and maybe y'all can

help us figure out what the deep hurt

is. So let's start from the top. Okay.

So first feature of deep hurt is that it

exists deep within you. So if we sort of

look at I think 70 to 80% of people on

the planet operate between mentally

between like the ground level and the

fifth floor. So they have thoughts, they

have emotions, there's stuff that's kind

of maybe maybe somewhat buried beneath

the surface, a little bit suppressed,

but like they basically go through their

lives like on a surface kind of way. And

I don't mean that in a derogatory way.

It it's just that, you know, they they

when they are in a happy situation, they

feel happy. When things get frustrated

at work, they feel sad. When they get

broken up with, they go through a period

of depression, but then they kind of

bounce out of that. Sometimes these

people also have diagnoses like

depression and trauma which if you sort

of get these psychiatric interventions

people will heal. But there are some

people that I I sit with and I would say

maybe 20 to 30% of people where there's

something just deeper down. It's just

like way deep down and no matter what

you do on the surface that thing stays

there. So that's the first feature of

it. Second feature of it is it has a lot

of oomph. Like I don't know how else to

describe it. I was thinking about using

the word energy but that word is so

loaded. So what I mean by it is that the

size of the thing the density of the

thing is really really really strong.

It's like there are times in my life

well I will be doing absolutely nothing

and I will feel this like ache deep

within me. I think this ache sort of

feels good in some way like it adds a

depth to life. I love really really sad

music. I like feeling sad. And I think

sometimes the people with the deep hurt

like love sadness in a weird way. I also

think that when I, you know, sometimes

people will walk up to me and they'll

say, "Oh, Dr. K, like I know this sounds

weird, but I love you." And then I will

say, "I love you, too." And I really

feel that in that moment like like I

don't know if this makes sense to y'all

but this is also another feature of the

deep hurt where it brings us a profound

sense of like compassion for other human

beings. I've also seen this with some of

the artists that I work with. Right? So

when I have a patient who has like

bipolar disorder and writes music or or

paints or something like that, often

times when we sort of go through the

process of healing, what they really

hate about things like mood stabilizers

is not that it like keeps the depression

at bay. They love that it keeps the

depression at bay. They love that it

keeps the mania at bay. What they hate

is that when we start taking things like

mood stabilizers, it cuts us off from

this part of us, which is kind of weird

because this part of us doesn't

necessarily feel good. It's like a

negative veilance of experience, but

somehow it adds like depth and flavor to

life. So, that's another feature of the

deep heart. And the third feature that

we've kind of talked about is that it

doesn't seem to get better. If anything,

the better you get, it gets worse or

more profound. Okay? So, what I've seen

with people is when I work with them

clinically, like the deep hurt can sort

of synergize with mental illness. So,

it's like this thing that's deep within

you, but if your physiology is messed

up, if your emotions are messed up, if

you're in a toxic environment, if your

cognitions are like messed up, then that

oomph from the deep hurt will like

synergize with all this toxic crap on

the top and will make your life

profoundly worse. But even when I sit

with people who are depressed, I think

like when we really sit down and tunnel

into it, they can even tell the

difference between, okay, this is the

depression which comes and goes and is a

little bit, you know, cognitively messed

up. Like I can see that, oh, now I can

see that like my thinking isn't really

real, but there's an element down there

that actually never changes. Hey y'all,

[music] if you're interested in applying

some of the principles that we share to

actually create change in your life,

check out Dr. K's guide to mental

[music] health. So this is a guide that

explores this process. How does

experience shape us as [music] human

beings? Trauma is all about walling off

or suppressing things that are

overwhelming. [music] They cannot

control their emotions, so their

emotions control them. So check out the

link in the bio and start your journey

today. So, when I was trying to figure

out like what this is, I did a lot of

interesting research. And one of the

things that we're going to talk about is

some like relatively fringe

psychoanalytic research because this

stuff is not in your textbooks about

cognitive behavioral therapy or

treatment manuals for borderline

personality disorder. So, there's this

guy named Donald Stern who basically

talks about how there's stuff in the

unconscious that is uncristallized. So,

he sort of says that he he sort of

disagrees with a lot of people like

Freud. So Freud basically believed that

if we take the like a trauma okay so

once you've been traumatized there's a

particular kind of wound that is within

your unconscious within your conscious

mind but that wound is basically like

formulated so Stern said something

actually a little bit different he says

yeah that stuff can happen you can have

a particular kind of psychological wound

but as he puts it the unconscious is

composed of potential experience

contents that do not yet have an

explicit knowable shape that may take

any one of several or many possible

shapes when eventually they are

formulated. Okay. So perception is

constructed from a full less fully

formulated state. There is an ongoing

process of emergence in perception

thought and feeling from vagueness to

clarity. So what do what Stern is saying

is like yeah there is formulated stuff.

There's stuff that has shape and has a

particular insecurity, but there's also

like this primitive psycho substance and

that what could be the deep hurt is like

it's not a formulated thing yet. So,

it's kind of this like, you know, it's

like a ball of clay, it hasn't taken

shape and that through the process of

living and growing and changing that

this could formulate into a particular

form. So, that's just like that's the

best psychological explanation that I've

been able to find. Although I don't

think that that really tracks with my

understanding of the deep hurt because

but maybe it does, right? Because it

does get kind of more profound over time

the better you get with your life. Like

the more your life improves, the more

that you feel the deep hurt. So, who

knows? That's just one of the options.

So, let's take a look at a couple of

other options. One is that the deep hurt

is essentially like a primitive trauma,

which is sort of related to this. So,

maybe when I was growing up, something

bad happened to me when I was a

2-year-old, a three-year-old, or a

four-year-old. And one of the key things

to remember about psychological injuries

is they maintain the resolution of our

mind. So if I have a three-year-old

child and they get traumatized in a

particular way, their mind doesn't know

how to lay down that memory with like

complicated verbal stuff, right? So a

three-year-old has a very primitive and

deep injury. If I'm a teenager or an

adult and I get traumatized in a

particular way, that wound will be less

primitive. it'll be more defined, right?

So, I'm I'm pathetic. I'm ugly. Like,

for example, so a teenager may think if

they get bullied that I am ugly. So,

that kind of injury has more form to it

than like a 2-year-old. A 2-year-old

doesn't understand the concept of being

ugly. So, there's a possibility that the

deep hurt is essentially a trauma,

although I don't really think so because

there are many cases of like, you know,

healing of trauma, which I've worked

with with patients, but the the deep

hurt remains. Another possibility is

that this could be like an epigenetic

phenomenon. So what does that mean? So

this means that we know that there's

some aspects of psychological damage

which can actually be passed down

through the generations. Now it's not

passed down at the genetic level. It

doesn't alter our genetic code, but it

alters our epigenetics. So epigenetics

is turning on or off our genetic code.

And we know for example that Holocaust

the the descendants of Holocaust

survivors can exhibit some symptoms of

PTSD. So there's one uh example of the

deep hurt which I I talked about um on

Steven Bartlett's podcast. So here's a

here's a quick clip of it. And when I

was meditating I I realized one day that

I in a past life I know this is going to

sound completely insane but I've I've

done that. The what you're hearing now

is not a hypothetical. I've lost a child

before. or I've been a mother before and

it took me some time to figure this out.

But when you meditate, you start to

discover things about yourself and I

have this very deep sense of loss in me

that I've lost a child. This is not

hypothetical. I know what it's like to

lose a child and it's happened to me

before and I still carry that hurt with

me from a past life. So when you ask me

this hypothetical, this is not a

hypothetical for me. This is a trauma

that I've experienced just not in this

life. So this is my subjective

experience of it. like there's this

really really profound pain deep within

me that has nothing to do with my

experience of this life. So then the

question becomes okay like what is this

right? So maybe it's something that I

made up in my mind maybe my genes are

just wired a particular way but I think

this is where epigenetics come in. So

it's possible and I know for example

that people you know in the generations

above me have lost children. So if my

grandmother let's say lost a child and

then that changed her epigenetics, is it

possible that her psychological

experience of losing a child could have

been passed down to me? That's one of

the options. The other option and this

is sort of why I like you know some

people will say oh Dr. K's bias towards

Hindu spirituality, which is absolutely

true, right? So, we look at the evidence

of it. Like, I was raised in a

particular culture. I wasn't really

Hindu when I was growing up. I thought

it was all BS. I was pretty much an

atheist, but I've absolutely had

profound experiences in meditation. And

part of the reason that I've been drawn

towards meditation is because I have

some of these experiences and I want to

understand this stuff, right? I want to

understand what is this ache inside me.

And as I read texts about epigenetics

and psychoanalysis, I don't find an

answer that's satisfying enough. And so

as I turn to things like meditation and

I start to do meditations on, you know,

unlocking my past lives because I was

really curious about this stuff. And I

was like, "Oh, this crap doesn't exist."

But in this text, there's a technique

that sort of talks a little bit about

how to have an understanding of your

past lives. So I was like, "Let me try

this out." And as I do these kinds of

techniques, I feel like this unlocking

of this sensation. So the deep hurt has

always been there. But as I do these

meditative techniques, it starts to take

some degree of form. Okay? And so then

maybe that's the psychoanalytic

perspective. Like I'm not quite sure,

but that's just my experience of it. And

that's why I need y'all's help because I

don't really know what this stuff is.

I'm just putting this stuff out there.

So it's possible that you know if we're

looking at the differential diagnosis

for what the deep hurt is I think

something that is on my list doesn't

have to be on your list but I'm just

offering it as a a possibility is this

idea of like karma and reincarnation and

do we carry psycholog this psychological

thing is there the question is where did

it come from so it could be from an

unformulated thought it could be from

epigenetics and one of the things that's

on my list of potential options is that

this is a cycle psychological wound that

I inherited from a past life because it

sure as hell doesn't seem to have come

from this one. The last thing that we're

going to talk about in terms of the deep

hurt is something called the bodhicitta.

So bodhicitta means sort of mind of a

Buddha. But in the 8th century there was

a a beautiful text that was written that

we're going to show you all in a second

that talks a little bit about the wound

of compassion. So in the Buddhist

tradition as people started to meditate

and get super serious about these like

very advanced meditation techniques,

they describe something that's really

interesting. So when we look at like the

early stages of Buddhist meditative

practice, it's about like tranquility,

right? So I feel angry. I feel upset.

I'm I'm sad about this. I'm attached to

this. I have an ego around this. It's

all the stuff that we're familiar with,

right? Ego is bad. Comparison is bad.

Comparison is the thief of joy. Sadness

is bad. all that we're going for inner

peace. As we make progress on this path

and we start to achieve inner peace,

something really weird happens. This

thing called the wound of compassion

starts to open up within us. So it's

kind of like anxiety, depression,

sadness, anger, jealousy, all this stuff

is over here. Then we attain inner

peace. And on the other side of inner

peace is this ache of compassion. And

it's described as a very profound sense

of suffering. So here are a couple of

passages that describe this ache.

Likewise, different beings in their joys

and sorrows are like me, all one in

wanting happiness. So everybody wants

happiness. The pain of mine does not

afflict or cause discomfort to another's

body. My pain is my own. And yet this

pain is hard for me to bear because I

cling and take it for my own. And other

beings pain I do not feel. And yet

because I take them for myself, their

suffering is mine and therefore hard to

bear. And therefore I'll dispel the pain

of others. For it is simply pain just

like my own. And others I will aid and

benefit for they are living beings like

my body. Since I and other beings both

in wanting happiness are equal in alike,

everyone wants happiness. What

difference is there to distinguish us

that I should strive to have my bliss

alone? Since I and other beings both in

fleeing suffering are equal in alike,

everyone's trying to run away from

suffering. What difference is there to

distinguish us that I should save myself

and not the others? Since the pain of

others does no harm to me, I do not

shield myself from it. So why guard

against my future pain which does no

harm to this my present me? Basically

this text talks a lot about I have this

suffering and this pain within me. A lot

of other people have this suffering and

pain within me. And it talks a lot about

sacrificing ourselves for the sake of

like other people's betterment and like

sacrifice in a really messed up way. My

body thus, and all my goods besides, and

all my merits gained and to be gained, I

give them all, and do not count the

cost, to bring about the benefit of

beings. This body I have now resigned to

serve the pleasure of all living beings.

Let them ever kill, despise, and beat

it, use it according to their wish. And

so let beings do to me whatever does not

bring them injury. Whenever they may

think of me, let this not fail to bring

them benefit. So this person is

basically saying, let them do whatever

they want. Their hurt is important. I

should sacrifice myself for the sake of

other people's hurt. Now, it's not so

much about whether this is right or

wrong. What I want you all to think

about is does the person who write this

feel the deep hurt? for someone to say

something like, "Let me give up

everything that I have for the benefit

of other people. Who cares about the

cost of me? It's all about them."

Imagine the degree of compassion that

they have to feel. And I don't know if

this makes sense, but like as I have

grown more stable, the hurt that I feel

for other people, like my compassion has

started to increase so much. And so I

wonder whether the these people who were

sort of talking about the bodhicitta

about the wound of compassion are

actually right. The one thing that I do

know that's so so interesting is that

it's been my overwhelming experience

that the more that I lean into the deep

hurt, the more oomph it adds in the

outside world. So, as I connect to this

deep heart, and that's why like my

patients with bipolar hate getting rid

of it, it causes me to feel more hurt,

feel more pain, but it also enriches

life and I tend to find that that oomph

also like when I lean into the oomph, I

start to see manifestation in the real

world. So, I know that sounds really

weird. So, let me explain. Some of my

patients, it means writing a beautiful

song. It means making a a beautiful work

of art. In my case, it's making videos

on this channel like this. It's

recognizing that there's eight billion

people on the planet, most of whom are

suffering and who don't know what the

hell to do about it. And so here I am

not even understanding this concept, but

as I connect to that hurt, it's like I

have to try. Even if it costs me

something and no one benefits from it

because I'm not making any [ __ ] sense

because none of this stuff makes sense

and we don't even know what we're

talking about, I have to try anyway. And

that comes from the deep part.

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