Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> Dude, you're all suited up. You got a

wild card boxing hat on, a Bruce Lee

shirt. Come on, son.

>> Hey, we got the the the yellow and uh

thing going on.

>> Yeah, you got it all going on.

>> What's happening? Great to see you,

>> man. Things are really Well, this thing

is a little loud.

>> Is it? There's a on that thing there,

there's a little volume.

>> Okay.

>> knob. You can turn that sucker down.

Last time I saw you was at Terry Black's

Barbecue.

>> Yeah.

>> Random run in.

>> Yeah, that was crazy. That was crazy.

Yeah, man. I was thinking about going

there right after this. I'm like, what?

Terry Black? That place was no joke.

>> That place rules.

>> Yeah, man. I

>> Are you still in LA?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> What's it like?

>> It's cool, man. Yeah.

>> You like it? You're the only person that

said that.

>> No, no. Yeah. Well, because okay, I I

defend LA in a way where

>> first of all, if you got a handful of

good people with you, you know, your

then it's then is so the fact that LA

has all kinds of different things. You

could be on a hiking trail

>> in 20 minutes, you can be

>> geographically it's amazing.

>> Yeah. And the and the weather, you can't

beat it. But so if you got good people,

good friends with you,

>> then it's all good.

>> You just run by crooks.

It's a nice neighborhood run by the mob.

It's run by the woke mob. But I mean,

geographically, you can't beat it. You

could be at the ocean and then you could

be in the mountains in two hours.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you that's that's

even if you don't partake, it's still

cool. It still amps up the uh the

antique really.

>> Oh, yeah. Like the spot itself is

magical. It is a magical place to live.

Although I am deeply concerned that that

[ __ ] is going to get hit with a

big one soon.

>> It's about time, right?

>> Yeah. I was I was reading this article

about massive earthquakes in California

and how often they're spread out

>> and the possibility of one of them

happening within the next decade. It's

very high.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I try not to

think about that.

>> I try not to think about it, too. But

>> Yeah. Yeah. But um you know and and now

there's you can I think they have better

detection of that stuff now too.

>> Mm-

>> it's better.

>> It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

They can't detect.

>> Well,

>> do you remember what happened in Italy?

A a couple guys got arrested and went to

jail. They were seismologists because

the the company the country rather

didn't understand the ability to detect

it. They had a big earthquake and a

bunch of people died. And so they blamed

these geologists or seismologists. They

wound up winning in court on appeal cuz

eventually the science was revealed.

Like, hey, there's no [ __ ] way you

can really tell.

>> But they hung these guys out. They

blamed these guys on not being able to

detect it,

>> man. Well, I mean, just think about it.

The last crazy ones was 72 and then 94.

>> Yeah. I think it was 93. I came I moved

to LA right after the last big one. I

saw one of the sections of the highway

that had collapsed on the other one. I

remember driving by going, "Fuck this

place."

>> I was in the middle of that one. I just

I came into LA.

>> Oh, were you were there? Dude, I don't

even like to tell the story about what

happened during that 94 earthquake

because it it sounds like [ __ ]

>> but literally I got I got up, ran out of

my house, um my apartment at the time,

jumped off the balcony, and watched it

happen.

>> You watched the house collapse.

>> I watched the earthquake happen from

outside.

>> Oh,

>> it's it's it's like no [ __ ]

everybody's. So, I thought, "Oh [ __ ] I

overreacted. I had a bad dream. I I

lived on the first uh floor of this

apartment building. All I know is I wake

up, I'm off balance, catching my balance

in the parking lot, right? And like, oh

shoot, I got to find the guard to get me

back in the in the apartment building,

right?" And I'm thinking, "What? You

know what? What? What's like I've lost

my mind or something." The next thing

you know, everything shakes and the

lights go out. Just go it just

everything gets black. And so I'm

backing I I retreat back because I'm

thinking the building was going to fall

on me. And I'm like, wait a minute. Then

I got the the uh story from everybody

else that ex that experienced it. They

said that the first thing that happened

was the the building shook and the

lights went out. Well, I was outside

watching that. So, I'm outside when it

happened

like some kind of

>> What made you jump over the

>> I don't know. Is that a feeling,

>> dude?

>> Or did you have like the fir was it the

first rumbles?

>> I thought I thought it was I thought I

reacted to the like some kind of a

aftershock or some kind of rumble. No,

cuz the girl that was with me,

>> you left her in the apartment.

Dude,

all she knows is she said, "You jumped

up and you ran out of you you ran out of

the house and I heard the the the uh the

door slide and that was and then next

thing you know everything shook and she

couldn't she was trapped in there

because there was a a closet door that

trapped um trapped her in the hallway.

So when I got back in the place, me and

a friend had to try to pry the door open

because she couldn't get out. But I ran

out of that place before the earthquake

actually happened.

>> How weird.

>> Yeah,

>> you got good instincts.

>> I don't know what the hell that was.

>> It has to be cuz it

>> I don't even like telling that story

because it sounds like [ __ ]

cuz it really happened that way because

then the guard I talked to the guard.

I'm like, "Hey, when did when did the

lights go out?" "Oh, it shook and the

lights went out." I'm like, "I'm

watching that happen." So,

>> so you felt it happen before it happened

>> some kind of weird way.

>> Well, I bet humans have that. Animals

definitely have that. They talk about

Thailand, how they had that tsunami and

all the animals ran up to the highest

point of the of the island.

>> They all just took off. It's like they

just knew instinctively. I

>> I don't know. Nothing like that has ever

happened afterwards. M

>> but I I got to say there's been I've

been lucky over the years.

>> Yeah, but you're a dude who's tuned in.

You're tuned into your body. You're

tuned in to your environment. You're not

going to get caught slipping. Like you

probably felt something and your Spidey

sense went off.

>> Yeah, I I kind of have been like that

growing up. Like I've been, you know,

I've been on my own since I was 14. been

through crazy [ __ ] that you norm

normally would see on movies

>> and that's the type of [ __ ] that gives

you those kind of instincts

>> but but yeah and I was always the one

that said hey let's leave let's get out

of here and then hey man there was a

shootout just happened right after you

left or I could detect like the

predators you know what I mean

>> so I grew up kind of that way

>> because you had nobody looking out for

you yeah nobody was looking out for you

had to look out for yourself

>> well yeah I mean I

Oh, I was I was like always the junior

of the group a lot of times cuz like I

said I you know I've been on my own

since I was 14. I haven't grown in since

I was 13 14. I was I looked like a grown

ass man, right? I was fighting in

tournaments at 15 against you know uh uh

grown men like you know fighting

heavyweight at that time.

But I was always hanging with older

people. Uh kind of, you know, kind of

like I got away with kind of living as

an adult early on

>> because like, you know,

>> did you work?

>> Yeah. Well, I was teaching a karate

school, a karate class. What what was

doing what was what was happening? See,

I used to hang out at this community

center in the hood. At this time I moved

from from Brooklyn to Bridgeport,

Connecticut. Right.

>> Bridgeport's a tough neighborhood.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It was a

>> a lot of people don't know.

>> Yeah. We had the top murder rate per

capita, man. Like

>> Bridgeport's rough.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, I was uh constantly

I mean there's a community center that

was like my haven and I would go

practice with me and my other karate

nuts, you know? And so I'd be in the in

the paper for winning heavyweight, you

know, uh, competitions or whatever. And

so the people that was running the

community center said, "Why don't you

teach a class?" They thought I was an

adult.

>> Oh, that's hilarious.

>> And so I was teaching like a, you know,

like kind of like just under the table.

I was getting paid under the table

basically. But I had like close to 200

students early on, like when I'm 15, 16.

>> Oh, that's crazy.

>> Yeah. So, you know, it was kind of kind

of a trip that's, you know, which is one

of the reasons why I was a father at 15,

>> you know, cuz I had uh one of my

students older sister,

you know, was like had a crush on her

her on his uh instructor, but I was kind

of living the life of a grown-up like

early on. And so, you know, there's

there's a faction of people in

Bridgeport who think I'm Satan, I guess,

because they think that I'm probably in

my 70s now.

>> You're a vampire,

>> right? Yeah. So, there was there there's

some people I had to admit like, uh, no,

I wasn't the age you thought I was back

then.

>> Oh, that's crazy.

>> Yeah. But I mean, so yeah, you know, one

of the things I I um I'm really grateful

for is growing up that early and having

to, you know, use my instincts and being

that, you know, street fighting and

fighting was like my favorite thing to

do actually. And so with when I got into

the martial arts deeper and everything

else, you know, I I just I just really I

really dug into it and wanted to learn

style after style and

>> this, you know, everything. I was just a

martial art nerd for it. But um but I

also liked the the the realistic part

portion of it. Even though I was doing

other styles like woo and everything

else, but you know, it was it was

actually my haven.

>> Somewhere Eddie Bravo has to find this

video. There's a video of us working out

together at Legends. Yeah.

>> Where we were talking about hopping

sidekicks and different types of

sidekicks and you threw a there was a

bag that we had that had a shitty chain.

>> But the regardless, you threw a hopping

sidekick on that chain and the chain

snapped and went flying. The bag went

flying and Eddie Bravo was like, "What

the fuck?" It's a funny video, man. I

know Eddie has it somewhere. I'll

probably I'll I'll text him after this

and try to see if he can put it up on

his Instagram or something if he can

find it.

>> Yeah. Back then, man, we were training

when it wasn't even popular. You know, I

used to see you in the gym all the time.

>> Yeah.

>> All the time, man. And and you were just

think about this.

>> Do you know it was 29 years ago the last

time you interviewed me?

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> 29 years ago

>> that a that Bob Costa show, he took a

week off and I guest hosted it for a

week. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And at that time you were you were

already training with Maurice Smith.

>> Yes. Maurice was one of the guests,

>> right? You you were training cuz I I

ended up training with Maurice Smith.

You know, every time I go to Seattle,

you know, we we we train together. So,

you know, we're like part of this like

kind of karate martial art nerd culture.

>> Yeah.

>> When it wasn't even popular.

>> No.

>> I used to see you all the time. You

know, you and you and you know, doing

jiu-jitsu, Carl Paresian and all these

guys at Legend. What? Where was another

place? It was We had There was Legends

and there was another place.

>> The Bomb Squad. Yes,

>> the Bomb Squad was the first place that

Eddie taught at that place closed down.

Then we went to Legends

>> and then we moved to the other Legends

that was like in um more East LA

>> and then uh then Eddie started opening

up his own place in downtown.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's where I would I

would train with Josh Barnett at that

place quite a bit.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, man. Old days.

>> Yes, man. Yeah. and who's who would be

coming through the gym because I would I

was training um I was training Bob Sap

at one time and then I that's how I got

Frankie Li connected into that.

>> Wow. That whole thing.

>> Wow.

>> And so

>> I remember Frankie. Frankie used to be

at the bomb squad first,

>> right? Yeah. Frankie was like my best

friend in the world and he was,

>> you know, he super middleweight champion

in the world. That's that's who got me

deeply into boxing.

>> And so I would always be at his training

camps and you know I got to train with

like uh Tommy Hearns and all these all

these amazing people like Sugar Ray and

all these guys. Man,

>> Frankie is a great boxing coach.

>> Yeah,

>> he one of the most technical he's one of

the most technical guys I've ever worked

with. Like he analyzes every aspect of

your jab. He's pulling in your elbow.

He's tightening this. He's moving you

here. He's like like he's showing all

the like various basic little tiny

details that make all the difference in

the world.

>> Yeah, man. that that he was my my you

know personal boxing coach a lot of you

know I I would train with him uh Joe

Goulen early on

>> but um but Frankie I mean we really kind

of combined a lot of things because I

started kind of teaching him

things with the jab like the untelegraph

type of stuff and he started applying

that and he would he would bring me into

stuff and you know have me show people

like Sugar Ray like oh Mike explain this

J and I'm like what I'm explaining this

to Sugar Ray this feels ridiculous right

but but it was like but it was like this

combination because like I don't know

I'm I'm very analytical and I love

technique you know and and so I would

just try to break things down and my

whole thing was always to pressure test

things you know so if I could develop a

tool or a skill and I and you can't stop

it. Even if I tell you what's what's

what I'm doing,

>> then it's a really good technique. Then

it's then it's legit.

>> The thing about no telegraph at all,

it's so much more effective than a

harder strike with a telegraph.

>> Oh god. Yeah.

>> Because it lands, but it's so difficult

to teach people that because everybody

wants to hit everybody as hard as they

can. Especially if you have power, your

instinct is to [ __ ] to load up on

everything. I remember I first saw you

teaching that to Kimbo Slice.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. You were on a movie set.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz um Kimbo, oh man, what a

great guy, man. What a great guy.

>> What a wonderful guy. So, that's one

thing about fighting. You You can't hide

your nature. You know what I mean? You

people see who you are. And he was he

was a wonderful human being. Um but like

but like a lot of people like almost

like street basketball as opposed to you

know uh professional

you you you you miss out on certain

techniques that you need when you're you

you're trying to step up

>> right

>> and so like well Kimbo you know he he

would like a lot of people he would kind

of telegraph and so when we were

shooting the movie uh you know and I

basically we had a cameraman man that

did not really know how to shoot stuff.

So I just had to do everything on

screen. And so I would I would I just

wanted to make everything very

realistic. And so so Kimbo had this

rubber knife and I was like, "Try your

best to touch me with the rubber knife."

And so he would try, but before but as

soon as he would move, there'd be a

little bit of an indication that I'd

see. And then I I throw a punch and it

would go really close to him and I have

him react to that. But he was going,

"Wait, wait a minute. How are you how

are you hitting me before I can get this

knife out?" And then I I told him, you

know, I'll show you what that is later

because, you know, kind of like not to

be real nerdish about it, but like why

why are like 50 and 60 year old trainers

meeting people's hands like a 20 year

old guys or contenders hands like this?

You see the person with the pad moving

just as much as the other guy because

there's an indication they're they they

do this beforehand.

>> They're always kind of flexing and going

in reverse before they go forward. So

just for over years I wouldn't do that

and I would exploit that, you know. So

it's kind of like a cheat code that I'm

like hell what the what the hell I'm

going to do with it? I'm I'm an actor.

So my thing is just like yourself when I

see you you know with George St. Pierre

and and how we are all always in the gym

we're you know we're kind of

collaborating. We're you know we're

we're it's about just getting better.

Not no ego or anything else like that.

It's just like, hey man, we're like kind

of, you know, kind of like jamming on on

technique and getting better.

>> Well, especially to someone who has a

different style to do cuz there's always

something in different styles that you

could take out of it.

>> Absolutely.

>> There's always something and we're

seeing that now. There's all these

different martial artists that are

entering into MMA that have these

different techniques that people haven't

seen before and there's a lot of them

that people dismiss that you're finding

are very effective especially if you

don't know how to do them. You don't

know what they are. So you don't you

have like a database in your mind of

movements. Like

>> I'm sure you see when a guy's loading up

on a spin. Everybody sees that. But if

you don't know that, you don't see it,

right? Right? And if you if you're

loading up, then you're not going to

you're not going to capitalize on it

>> because you don't you know you're taking

a there's a millisecond that you're

taking because your movement is not

efficient.

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to learn more. There's a move that still

to this day people aren't doing

effectively. when someone loads up

because you could see the load up and

it's just a jam. It's just lifting your

foot up and putting on the hips

>> and it's super effective in taekwond do

because everybody's fast, you know,

everybody's trying to do that technique.

But that jam of just lifting your foot

up and just not trying to hit them hard,

just putting that foot on the hip. It

[ __ ] people up and I don't see anybody

using that right now. I tell you man

like I don't like as in life there's

always something that you can gain

>> from you know people want to I don't

know people are in their own egos a lot

of times but like even woou

me is is hard as hell for me doing woo

against guys half my size it's not

against but it's a performance thing

right

>> but if I can do all can go to these

these very uh hard techniques of like

get I got to get down to the floor and I

got to and

>> body and yeah at my size,

>> right?

>> Well, then I'm better. So, if I want to

kick you in the eyebrow, I can because

I'm it's about, you know, having my body

do what my mind's telling it to,

>> right?

>> And so, but of course, people want to

dismiss it because, oh, that ain't real.

You can't use it. Yeah, good. Yeah. Just

like ballet is hard as hell. You can't

use that either. But anybody, any

heavyweight who put themselves through

ballet would be a better fighter

>> 100%. Look at Lomachenko.

>> Yeah.

>> His dad taught him Ukrainian dance.

Lomachenko's dad pulled him out of

boxing for two years when he was young

and said, "You're just going to do UK

Ukrainian dance."

>> Yeah.

>> He's like, "What the [ __ ] am I doing?"

But look at that guy's footwork.

>> Exactly. Exactly. And so so it's it's

just that as in life, man, I don't look

at anything from one group and just

discard any any other stuff.

>> I used to when I was young.

>> Yeah.

>> When I was young, I was pretty arrogant

about certain things. I thought forms

were stupid. All I wanted to do is spar

and hit the bag. Yeah.

>> Then as I got older, I realized, oh,

there's a lot of wisdom in all this

[ __ ]

>> Oh, absolutely. But yeah, but that's

like I say, I try to apply that to life,

period.

>> You know, I never look at anything from

one perspective. I mean, I grew up in

the hood and I'm, you know, my favorite

band is freaking, you know, the Eagles.

Really? And and yeah, I mean, like, you

know, and I'm listening to Jodie

Mitchell and all and people like, "What

are you doing listening?" I'm like,

"What the fuck?" You know, this this is

my life, man. [ __ ] you. Like, do you you

hear these lyrics? You you hear Jodie

Mitchell's lyrics, man? What the [ __ ]

That's all for me, too. I mean, I'm just

as passionate about, you know, Errol

Smith as I am about the Eley brothers,

but but I it was I've never looked at

life as I have to think in this

parameter, you know, I'm got to be

marginalized. That's that's just man,

come on. It's such a waste of life. It

is.

>> It's all for you, man. So,

>> I agree

>> with with the martial arts and

everything else. I look at every martial

art u just like everything else,

everything has something to contribute.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Just like all people have

something to contribute. Even an idiot,

you can learn from an idiot.

>> You can you can a lot of idiots say wise

things occasionally.

>> Yeah. Because everybody's going to have

a quotient of of legitimacy.

>> Mhm.

>> You know, maybe it may be 20% as and

they don't see the 80%.

>> But until you acknowledge that 20%,

they're not going to hear you. Right.

>> You know what I mean? So that's the

thing. It's like, man, we're on this

planet. And one of the things I man I I

I don't envy a whole lot of people but I

do dude I do envy you because you get to

expand your world. You talk to so many

interesting people and that's how what a

great thing. What a great thing to just

have all these type of perspectives

>> and all that coming through. And I got

to say man I'm super proud of you cuz I

I know you as Joe from the gym and look

what you've done man.

>> Thank you

>> man. It's like that that's a that's a

shot in the army cuz it's like people

that you like and seeing them prosper.

That's cool as [ __ ] Like

>> Yeah. I've learned a lot, man. And I

didn't expect to, you know, when when we

first started doing this, it was just

for fun. We just get together with our

friends, you know.

>> But you knew what you wanted to do, man.

You You were pretty damn clear because

Do you remember this? You remember me

coming to I I think it was the Ice House

in Pasadena?

>> Yeah. Uh no, no, no. Oh, shoot. It

wasn't Ice House. It was It was in It

was in Orange County. I came to see how

many Magic Club maybe.

>> I came to see you perform and I I I um

offered you the the role in Blood and

Bone. Do you remember that at all?

>> I do. Yeah. Yeah, I do now. Yeah. Okay.

>> Yeah. Because Blood and Bone, which is

like actually Sony's most successful

non- theatrical, that was basically a a

a kind of a a reimagining of Hard Times

with Charles Bronson

>> and um uh James Coburn.

>> Yes. Well, that role was basically that

I was offering you was the James Coburn

role,

>> right? And but you were so you was dead

and you said, I didn't I don't want to

do this acting stuff. I want to do I

want to focus on what I you know your

your interest which was you know you the

standup and you you're getting together

your I mean I know you and Eddie were

doing like kind of the early podcast

type of stuff or whatever

>> and I'm like man you know you really

kind of knew what you wanted to do.

>> Well the the thing about acting is uh I

mean I admire it especially good acting

>> but it takes a lot of time out of your

day. It's it's a 16- hour day. It's a

long day and it it will take away from

other things you do. And I saw that with

a lot of comics that they started doing

acting and it would take away from their

act because they really couldn't go and

do sets every night. They couldn't

really polish their material.

>> You could see stuff getting a little

clunkier.

>> It's just you got to you got to focus.

You got to find the things you enjoy and

focus on them.

>> Yeah. That's why that's why I say I'm

I'm so proud of seeing just being there

and seeing what you did. you you being a

part of the UFC when it was nothing

promised, you know what I mean? And

>> not only was it not promised, man,

people looked at you like you were doing

like snuff films or something.

>> Exactly.

>> They they looked at like I remember the

early days, man. Dana White always says

this, people would talk to you like you

were doing porn or something.

>> Right. Right.

>> Like I was on news radio, the sitcom on

NBC, and I was doing commentary where I

was doing postfight interviews for the

UFC and they were like, "Why are you

doing this? Why are you flying to

Alabama and doing cage fights?

>> See, this is what movies are. Good

movies are made of [ __ ] like this. You

know, somebody just on just out out of

their spirit doing what they want to do

>> with with no promise of anything and

then accomplishing something. So, you

know, kudos, man. Thank you. Seriously,

man.

>> Well, for me, and I'm sure for you as

well, when we were young, there was

always a question. What is the best

style? Is it Kyokushin? Is it judo? Is

it kung fu? what is it? What's the best

style? And no one really knew. I mean,

Benny the Jet fought in a bunch of those

no rules fights early early on, but they

never really took off. There wasn't

there wasn't a lot of those, you know.

And Benny was obviously a very special

fighter.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. He was one of my teachers, too.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I trained at his gym.

That was the He was on the podcast with

Blinky. Blinky Rodriguez came up

recently and I told them I said, "When I

came to LA, there was two places I had

to go. I had to go to the Comey store

and I had to go to the Jet Center. Had

to go to the Jet Center." And I was

there in '94 right before it went under

because the the earthquake damaged the

roof.

>> Exactly.

>> And so when the rainy season came on

fire and

>> right down from the gooseen

>> Yep. Yeah. Right down.

>> Yeah.

>> And um that that was an honor, man, to

be able to train in that gym. That was

incredible. It was incredible place.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I used to be there.

>> Yeah, man. Yeah. that that those are

some great times cuz I mean I connect

with Benny where because when I was in

Bridgeport my instructor Matty Mesi

went to California and started training

with Benny.

>> Oh wow.

>> Early on. So he put that on the map

about coming you know to the mecca and

training with Benny.

>> It was the mecca for for kickboxing in

the especially in the 90s. That was the

mecca. You had to go to the Jet Center.

Everyone talked about the Jet Center.

>> Yeah man. That was

>> we were always wondering like what is

the style? what's the best style? And

then the UFC came along and I'm like,

"Oh my god, they did it. They did it.

They figured it out. They put it all

together." And for a while it was

jiu-jitsu cuz nobody understood

jiu-jitsu and hoist Gracie was just

running [ __ ]

>> Well, you know, you you know how that

was kind of set up a little bit.

>> It was a little set up, but I mean,

look, he had some challenges like Ken

Shamrock was a beast. You know, he has

some really good fighters he was facing

against. Kimbo Slice, I mean, excuse me,

not Kimbo Slice. Um,

>> not Kimmo.

>> Kimmo, sorry. chemo was [ __ ] huge.

>> He was a big dude, but you know, he he

didn't really Well,

>> he was a 100 pound advantage.

>> He had a 100 pounds over Hoist.

>> The Gracies were smart.

>> They were very smart at that time in

knowing, you know, the right people to

kind of pick at that time cuz, you know,

there were some there were some killers

out there.

>> There were some killers out there. Yeah,

they definitely set it up, especially

the early ones. But it's also it's like,

>> you know, that was it was good for us to

see a guy like Hoist who wasn't jacked.

He was a slender guy who only weighed

175 lbs and he was strangling everybody,

arm baring everybody. It was it was wild

to see when he beat Dan Sever. Dan

Severn was 260 lbs and Hoist tapped him

off his back with a triangle.

>> Yeah, that man. What what a story that

put that put jiu-jitsu on the map.

>> On the map big time. But you know, one

thing that always broke my heart is

people never knew about uh Hixon,

>> right?

>> Oh my god.

>> I know.

>> That dude.

>> Yeah,

>> that cat was like I I always considered

him like pound-for-pound the best

because he he not he had this not only,

you know, jiu-jitsu skills, but just his

concentration.

>> Yeah.

>> And he was almost like, you know,

hypnotic,

>> right?

>> You know what I mean? The and just no

waste of energy.

>> None. Just unbelievable. What a amazing

person to watch. You I would encourage

anybody to pull up his his fights.

>> Well, another great example.

>> Oh, yeah. Another great example of cross

training, too, cuz Hixon got really into

yoga

>> and everybody's like, "What the [ __ ]

You doing yoga?" Like, yoga is for

girls, right? Hixon got really into yoga

and got super flexible and s and really

good at controlling his breathing.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.

>> And never got tired.

>> Yeah. You saw him in that in the Hulk.

You see thatorton? Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah, man. It's something, man.

That that talk about a legend.

>> Oh, real legend.

>> Yeah, man.

>> Well, Hixon, there's a video of him and

he did this multiple times where he

would go to these gyms and he would um

teach a seminar, like a long seminar,

and then roll with all the black belts

and just tap them one after the other,

one world champions, guys that just

didn't understand what was going on.

Like, how is this happening?

>> Oh, yeah. like Paul Oilio when he was a

WEC World Champion and he was uh he had

won the Mundials I believe he'd won

multiple jiu-jitsu championships and he

he trained with Hixon and he's like man

it's true he goes I can't believe it he

goes that guy treated me like I didn't

even belong in there it was crazy

>> and and Hixon by that time was probably

like 40

>> you know and it's still just dominating

guys on the mat and effortless it wasn't

strength it was it was just pure or

technique and

>> basics and just mastering of basics.

It's

>> basics. It was like there's none of the

no barolos and no Xgar, nothing crazy.

Everything he did is like jiu-jitsu 101,

but to a masterful masterful degree.

>> Yeah. Incredible.

>> And telling people that, you know,

because everybody know Hoist. And I'm

like, do you you guys don't know who his

big brother is? is he would openly say

that my brother's 10 times better than

me.

>> Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, that's

that really put uh and and I love

jiu-jitsu because it it's it's held up

the tradition that martial arts so much

of karate lost because it became a

business

>> and people would just, you know, put

their time in and pay for their black

belts, right?

>> And it just warded it down. all these

people running around saying that

they're master this and you know a grand

whatever and all these madeup things.

And it's like, "Oh yeah, the guy's a

master in a in a Asian martial art."

That's that's a that's a English word,

>> right?

>> You know what I mean? How did how did

master sneak its way into

>> Yeah. But anyway, but you know, male

ego, you know? So,

>> well, the thing about martial arts other

than jiu-jitsu is when you're sparring,

it's very controlled. Like a lot of

karate sparring is very controlled. A

lot of taekwondo sparring is very

controlled. But in jiu-jitsu, the

beautiful thing about grappling is you

know how good everybody is because they

all spar

>> and they're all rolling with each other

and they essentially go on full blast

until the tap.

>> Yeah.

>> And so you there's no hiding there's no

hiding your skill.

>> Yeah. I love what Eddie Bravo used to

say. Basically when you you won I killed

you.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> I just killed you.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, so that's like wow. That's a

that is a trip because it's like it

actually works out that way.

>> Oh yeah. If he gets you in a triangle

and you tap, it's because you were about

to go to sleep and once you're asleep,

he could just stomp your head into a

pancake.

>> Yeah. You're you're done.

>> Yeah. Just hold on to that triangle and

then you never wake up.

>> Yeah. What a humbling thing.

>> Yeah.

>> You know. Yeah.

>> Very humbling. Yeah. And what's really

humbling is how quickly someone can do

it to you when you don't know what

you're doing.

>> Like that was shocking to me cuz I had

all this martial arts experience and I

first started training. I was like,

"What's someone going to do to me? I

wrestled in high school. I'm strong. I'm

fast. I didn't know how to fight. I just

got manhandled over and over and over

again. I was like, "This is ridiculous."

>> Yeah. See that? But kudos because a lot

of people they because of if you got an

egotistical thing going and you you know

get that your your little uh I don't

know your your comfort because you got

your black belt and all that kind of

stuff. That means Jack nothing, you

know, to everybody I know who continues

and really to learn, you know, real

fighting

>> Yeah. knows when you you had a boxer

beat the hell out of you and you go,

"Oh, wait. There's a lot of this stuff I

got to toss out the window."

>> Yeah.

>> And because I mean I I never forget like

times where, you know, like I a wrestler

gets to me or a boxer like pieces me up

like early on. I'm like, "No, I got to

learn this."

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> I went through several of those.

>> Mhm. I went through one of them in high

school because I have a had a friend in

high school that was a wrestler and uh I

didn't think anything of wrestling. I'm

like that's not even a martial art.

>> And then we wrestled on the grass one

day and he just took me down at will and

I was like this is ridiculous. Like he

was pinning me down. I couldn't I

couldn't move. I couldn't get up. I'm

like

>> this is stunning,

>> right?

>> I thought I'm strong. I thought I could

move. I thought I'll be able to get out

of the way. No, not I had no chance. And

he wasn't even a great wrestler. He was

just a decent wrestler and he just

humbled me over and over and over again.

So then I started wrestling.

>> Then when I got into taekwond do

>> I thought I'm really good at taekwond

do. I was competing on a national level.

I won the state championships four years

in a row. I was [ __ ] people up.

>> And then I remember the first time I

boxed with a really good amateur boxer.

I was like, "Oh lord."

>> And this kid was like 18 years old and

uh I was at the and he went on his kid

his name is Dana Rosenblat. He went on

to become uh New England middleweight

champion. He beat Vinnie Pazienza.

>> Oh [ __ ]

>> He beat Howard Davis Jr. as a

professional. He was a really good

boxer.

>> Wow. Yeah, he had to be.

>> But he was kickboxing at the time and I

was going to get into kickboxing. And so

I was sparring with him. But when I was

boxing with him, I was just getting lit

up.

>> I was like, "Oh." And then also when we

were kickboxing, the moment he got close

to me, I was in trouble, right?

>> I was like, "Oh no." Like Taekwond do

had too many flaws, the hand techniques.

So, I had gone through that and so then

I thought, okay, well, now I understand

kickboxing.

>> Then I met a dude who went to Thailand a

bunch of times and was training Muay

Thai and fighting over there. And then I

started learning leg kicks. I'm like,

well, oh, good lord. Now all they have

to do is kick my legs. I didn't even

think of that.

>> And then I started really paying

attention to

>> WKA fights like the old Dennis Alexio

days, Don the Dragon Wilson, and I was

like,

>> leg kicks, leg kicks are everything. Oh

my goodness. Yeah.

>> And then I'm like, "Okay, well, now I

got a solid foundation. I understand how

to fight." And then I started getting

like, "Oh, no.

I'm getting raped." I was just getting

mauled on the mats.

>> I was like, "This is t." But I'd been

through that so many times and restarted

so many times. I was like, "Well, it's

time to learn this now."

>> Yeah. That that's that's what I'm saying

is everything has something to teach

you.

>> Yeah. And uh you know even even though

there's that there's a martial art

there's a fantasy world which is I I

look at it as hilarious you know there's

this you know uh

I I don't know there's

>> sometimes I I would say it like this

like with martial arts is the the

Dunning Krueger effect in the largest

way possible because everybody

>> out there has an opinion of martial arts

though very few people really know what

it is. you know, they want to look at,

you know, the movies and everything and

they really want to believe that.

>> They want to believe that this guy who,

you know, kicks in the air and all that

kind of stuff will be able to beat a a

champion.

>> And in a way, hey, I benefit from that

to some degree because they, you know,

they they think that about me. But, you

know, I even though I I I'm comfortable

fighting and I love to I mean, I just

love, you know, fighting against

anybody, you know, but

>> Well, you've had actual competition

experience, like a lot of competition

experience.

>> Yeah. But my my best experience is was

is with like I got I got the chance to

train against champions at their place,

>> you know, when they're at their best.

And it's not an ego thing. It's just

like I I love to be able to test myself

and I mean cuz I'm my biggest

competition and so that whole thing

about um just what the bow means to me

is like thank you for making me better

>> right

>> by providing me an obstacle and and the

higher the you know the better the

person the better I can become

>> 100%.

>> And so I loved it. So I've, you know,

for years I'm in there with Gokan Saki

and, you know, Maurice Smiths and, you

know, who, you know, you name it. I I

there's I've gotten I consider myself

one of the luckiest like martial artists

in on the planet because I get to train

with so many people sometimes, you know,

at my house and, you know, I've got all

these, you know,

>> former champions, you know, training and

Rampage when he was champion. and I go

to his place and you know and and

honestly like the things I brag about is

when I get humbled, you know, cuz that's

when I learn something. My my philosophy

is I love to be wrong because every time

I'm wrong, I learn something.

>> Absolutely.

>> And so like some of the the best times

for me is like I know when I was, you

know, Michael Bisping was getting ready

for uh uh to fight George St. Pierre and

we were in Thailand. I was like, "Yeah,

you know, let's let's mix it up. What

were you doing in Thailand?

>> Oh, we were doing a movie out there.

>> Oh, wow.

>> But he had to train. He was getting

ready uh for the George St. Pierre

fight. And so, you know, I was like,

"Yeah, let's let's do some rounds or

whatever." And I got so winded the

second round. I'm like, "Dude, just

whoop my ass." I I feel so like like I'm

embarrassed. I should

>> was a cardio machine.

>> Yes, he was.

>> He was a cardio machine. I didn't expect

that because we were we spent all day on

a yacht the day before and he was

drinking non-stop.

I'm a non-drinker, right? I'm like,

"This guy's going to, you know, yeah,

I'm going to probably take it easy on

him today."

>> He is one of the toughest [ __ ]

that ever fought in the sport. I swear.

>> This is what I say about him. No matter

what you think about watching his

fights, you have to understand, not only

did he accomplish so much, he

accomplished a lot of it with one eye.

>> One eye.

>> One [ __ ] eye. He had 11 fights in the

UFC with a winning record with one eye.

>> Yeah.

>> Crazy.

>> Yes. Yeah. That that's man.

>> He would memorize the eye chart

>> so that when they covered his eye, he

could sight it out like he could read

it.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.

>> How [ __ ] crazy is that?

>> He's got a hell of a He's got a hell of

a personal story, too. I was trying to

encourage him to get that

>> get that made, you know? Like, I

honestly, man, I I I really I really

look at these uh UFC fighters and you

you know, the MMA guys as our modern day

heroes. They're our gladiators. And so

whenever I have a chance, man, I always

like to put them in movies and try to

expose them to another kind of way uh

of, you know, getting paid. Yeah.

>> Especially afterwards because I some it

breaks my heart that

>> they're heroes and then they get

discarded sometimes by mean not not by

the um the union that they're with, but

just by the fans. They're they're so

fickle sometimes.

>> Yes. Well, the the casuals, the people

that aren't really martial artists,

>> right? Yeah. So, you know,

>> dismiss a guy when they lose a few.

>> Yeah. I just did my my third movie with

uh with Cowboy Cerrone, you know, uh we

just finished a little over a week ago.

>> Oh, that's awesome.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He's doing really good, man.

>> I love that. Yeah, me too. That's a guy

that could really legitimately

transition to become a movie star.

>> Yes. Yes. And he's got a lot more

confidence. This, like I said, the third

movie I did, I did a he did a western

with me. Uh, Outlaw Johnny Black. I I

wrote and directed it. Uh, but I had I

had uh Cowboy uh I had uh Randy Couture

in it.

>> Oh wow.

>> And then Josh Barnett.

>> Ry's done an amazing job of

transitioning.

>> Oh, absolutely.

>> The Expendables, you know, and he's

great at it. He has a great personality.

Just very absolutely very calm. He like

he Well, I remember one time he was

fighting Tim Sylvia for the heavyweight

title and he came out there. He had a

smile on his face. He looked over at me

and he winked.

>> I'm like, "How is this [ __ ] so

relaxed

>> before he's fight?" But he had a an

amazing perspective. He's like,

>> he said to me,

>> "The people who love you will love you

whether you win or lose."

>> And he said, "What's the worst thing

that can happen? You lose." He goes,

"You've lost before. It's no big deal."

>> Yeah. Remember him spanking Tito?

>> Yeah. He got on top of me, spanking him

when he had him down. Randy was an

animal.

>> Yeah. Well, when we, you know, he had

that heart attack while he was shooting

my movie.

>> That's crazy.

>> And then came back to set like nothing.

>> How did he have a [ __ ] heart attack?

>> I don't I don't remember how exact. It

was And I I think he he drove himself to

the hospital.

>> Yeah, man. That's about an American

hero, man. I mean,

>> I was there for his first fight.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. 1997. Yeah. I was there for his

very first fight.

>> Oh, shoot.

>> He fought this huge jack dude. Took him

down. Mountain him. beat the [ __ ] out of

him. It was wild. It was like that was

the time where wrestlers had first

started cracking this code, right? There

was this code of there was a lot of

people that thought like jiu-jitsu was

the only way and then the elite

wrestlers got in there. Okay.

>> The Mark Kurs, the Mark Coleman's, these

and then Randy, a bunch of these guys

got in there and then they realized like

if a guy can just take you down and beat

the [ __ ] out of you from the top,

there's not a whole lot you could do

about it. Right. Right.

>> And then we realize like, boy, that is

the corn that's the true cornerstone of

martial arts, the ability to take a guy

down.

>> My goodness. I mean, what's harder than

wrestling? I don't think there's any

>> the hardest sport in the world. The

hardest sport in the world and the best

sport in the world to get your kids into

at a young age because the discipline

and the mental toughness that they get

will carry them through for the rest of

their life.

>> Yep. Tenacity, the just the stick

tuitiveness, whatever you want to call

it. Yeah. That's just like

>> even high school wrestling. I remember

wrestling in high school and I had

already done martial arts, but I was

like, I'd never trained that hard. I was

like, I can't believe. And then it

carried me over into my taekwondo career

because I realized like, oh, I'm leaving

a lot on the table. Like, I'm not

training like these guys are. So, I

started running. I started adding all

these things to my training that I

wasn't doing before. I started doing a

lot more calisthenics, a lot more

different things. I was like, I'm

leaving something on the table because

we were not training in the gym and we

were sparring hard. We were doing hard

rounds. you'd get tired, but it was not

the same as what we were doing in

wrestling. No one trains harder than

wrestling.

>> Anorobic stuff, man. That's that's man.

I got I got the wrestling bug when um

and when I was in my I was a senior in

high school and the football coach was a

wrestler in in college and he ch he

challenged me. He I think we did this

two years in a row, my junior year and

my senior year. At the end of the year,

we he we'd wrestle. We'd just go like,

you know, he and I I was, like I said, I

was big for my age.

>> Were you playing football?

>> Uh I I was for a very short time, but I

ended up um I was I wasn't I wasn't

designed for for um

>> team sports.

>> Me neither.

>> I I ended up beating up the football

coach.

>> Oh, no.

>> Yeah. I had a I dude like I had I had

the worst temper than anybody I'd ever

seen. I mean I used to go into fits of

rage. I was so angry early on, man. It's

like the Hulk is like, "Mike, you should

chill out a little bit, man." Like I I

was just

>> It's probably from being on your own at

14.

>> Yeah. You know what it is is like I was

growing up in a very harsh environment

and I was I didn't know I was an artist.

I didn't know I was a writer, director,

whatever. You know, they didn't you

didn't see those growing up where I am,

right? And so when you're a sensitive

kid, man, what you do is you you build

armor.

>> Like I was to play Mike Tyson later on

and I understood him quite well. Uh and

if you're sensitive, you you know,

anything that's precious, you put it in

you lock it in a safe and you become the

safe. And it's it's like I grew up my

brothers were completely different.

They're they're engineers. So things

rolled off their back. But like for me

just I was just volatile. And luckily I

had martial arts to kind of f put my

focus into. But like I said like a like

I was to play Mike Tyson. I understood

him a great deal. And you know, even

though you take the moniker of this

monster,

it's only to hide what's really deep

inside. And that's why you would see if

anybody's going to go into tears in

front of a million people, it's people

like Mike Tyson. And you go, how does

that fit in the same person?

>> Right.

>> And so that's what I was growing up. And

you know, I don't know if you know this,

but I I was a I was a school teacher

before. I was an actor.

>> Oh, really? Yeah, I taught EMD. I was a

special ed teacher.

>> So, I focused on a lot of kids who were

very much like me. And I still do that.

In a way, I consider that my real job.

Whenever I'm off from work on a movie or

whatever, I go into the inner cities. I

go into community centers. I devote my

time because there's nothing that I

could do. There's no better spending of

time than something like that because I

was luckily luckily saved. I had just at

the right times in my life just

different seeds planted. And so I'm I'm

confident that if those seeds were not

planted, I would not be here because

like I say, I was been through some some

crazy stuff.

>> It's a classic story.

>> Yeah, bro. Man, like I tell you, like

just little under two years ago, a buddy

of mine who's a close friend of mine, um

he he got out of prison. He was in

prison for almost like 30 years. And he

found me on Facebook.

And so when I went back east, we we

linked up and I and you know, I know a

lot of people who has have businesses

and everything. I hooked him up, you

know, got him a job and we were sitting

over lunch and in the middle of him

telling me like a third or fourth story

like back in the glory days of us or

whatever.

While he was in the middle of this

story, I was I was, you know, kind of

getting myself set to kind of set him

straight because I don't know if you

want to call this superstitious,

but I won't lie. I I refuse to lie to my

friends. I even I won't lie by omission.

Um so I was getting set to tell him,

"Dude, man, you got to stop embellishing

on these stories just because you were

locked up and you made these stories

sound bigger than than life,

>> right?

>> I get it, but you're that's not real.

You got to you got to really, you know,

kind of not do that." And in the middle

of me thinking that and I'm listening to

him, I go, "Holy [ __ ] he's telling the

truth." I started remembering what he

was telling me

>> and I'm like, "Now I'm finishing his

sentences. Not only was that story true,

but the other ones were true, too." And

dude, like I swear every time I think

about this, I I got these goosebumps

and I realize, oh my god, how close I

was to being where he was or just not

being on this planet,

>> right?

>> Like

I better devote my time into helping

kids the way I was helped.

>> Yeah. Don't pull that ladder up.

>> No. Hell no. Hell no. Even if I'm taken

out, I I accept that. Even if I'm in

some projects where where I'm not

supposed to be and I shouldn't have

been, I accept that because dude, I am

abundantly lucky. I like it's it doesn't

even it doesn't even fit on the radar

how lucky I am. And I could remember a

lot of these crazy stories,

you know, aside from the ones that he

made me conjure back up, but man, I'm

like, "Wow."

>> Well, that speaks to your character that

you had downplayed it all in your mind

so much that you thought he was

exaggerating.

>> I swept it under the rug.

>> Yeah.

>> I I you know,

>> because you're not that person anymore.

>> No. No. But I mean, but

there was so much

there was so many events things that

would I just call it on a Wednesday that

I went through that it's like

I don't know like I think I wouldn't

trade it because I I continue to be the

happiest guy I know because of I think

some of that

>> because you can appreciate the good

times.

>> Oh my god. Yeah. And

>> I should be slapped if I complain about

anything,

>> right?

>> You know what I mean? Like what?

>> And so, you know, so I just boy, I I

just know I'm so blessed. And uh and you

know what what we do what we're doing

even right now, man. We're we're in the

service industry, man. You know, you're

here to serve. In my my opinion, that's

what we're all here for. And uh you know

it's great that we get to serve and

doing the things that we would like to

do inspired us.

>> That's definitely a lot of what we do. I

mean that's definitely a lot of it,

right? You you you entertain. But um I

feel very blessed that I've been able to

expose people

>> to so many different

>> ways of thinking, so much information,

so many different human beings that have

led completely different paths

>> that can tell you about whatever

discipline they're involved in, what

they've learned and what we're what

we're working on right now and what you

can learn about the human mind, the

body, ancient history, fill in the

blank, like whatever it is.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I see you do that over

and over and you utmost honesty. I

remember like when you had to kind of

pull Sha aside and tell as a friend some

things that are hard for people to, you

know, other friends to tell him,

>> you know, and like

>> that was real hard.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, that was real hard because I love

that guy. He's a great he's a great

person. He's a great human being and I

knew the path. I I'd seen it too many

times, but I hadn't seen it with someone

I was that close with. I was like, "You

have to stop because you not only that

you're in the heavyweight division, so

the knockouts are brutal and you're

going to get three or four more in the

next couple of years and then you're not

going to recover from those."

>> But man, so many people I I hope they

>> take a page out of that because it's so

non-manly I feel to not to just not say

anything, right?

>> And allow somebody you love to go down

the road. I mean that that might be

detrimental for them.

>> Well, it was also Sha had another path.

>> He was really good at podcasting. He's

fun. He's a funny dude, right? Yeah.

>> He's like as a podcast. He's like got a

great personality. He's hilar he's

silly,

>> you know? He's a big giant silly dude

and like we would have so much fun and

he was doing really well and he was

making more money doing that than he was

fighting. But his identity was so

wrapped up in him being a top 10 UFC

heavyweight. you know, he had beat world

class guys like Merco Crocop, you know,

and he he was legit, man. But though

that time had passed and uh I saw that

his he was one foot in and one foot out

and as soon as the guy's one foot in,

one foot out,

>> you're going to run into some guy who

has both feet in and he's a [ __ ]

samurai. And then you're going to wake

up on a stretcher and you're on the way

to the hospital going, "What happened?"

And you don't remember the fight. You

don't remember nothing.

>> And then you don't know where your keys

are. You forget people's names. You for

you tell the same story over and over

again and then you struggle to put

sentences together. When you start

seeing dudes with the slur

>> worth that, man.

>> Nothing's worth that cuz you're I mean

at the time he was only 35 years old or

whatever he was. I'm like, man, you got

another 45 55 years of life. You you

can't do this. You can't you you can't

sacrifice all these years for glory that

will never be achieved anyway because

you're not on that path anymore. Yeah.

And it's not about what strangers say

about you. No,

>> it's about your, you know, your friends,

your family, people who really love you.

>> It's just so hard for people to abandon

that identity. That's the hardest thing

with fighters is to abandon that

identity.

>> Mhm.

>> We've seen so many guy, the even the

greats. They come back and they

shouldn't and you see it and and you see

them get humiliated and you're like,

"Oh."

>> Yeah. Yeah. And you know, when it comes

down to it, these people, they don't

love you, man. like a lot of you know

it's

>> they love you as the image.

>> Yeah. They live vicariously through you.

I remember I remember one time I was in

um a fight in Boston

and I remember when something completely

changed usually if anybody would because

I did any kind of thing. I would do

kickboxing or this tournament. I I I

just loved my my best I think the the

thing I did best in the world was

fighting. it. I had this I always had

these cheat codes in a way and I enjoyed

the the the chess match of it and

anybody who were was against me. I don't

care if you were my cousin or whatever,

you were going to pay for all the angst

that I've I've had in my life.

>> But until there was this one time, I

swear I ducked a technique. I caught

somebody with something that was kind

of, you know, kind of cool. And I just

remember the audience just cheering.

And in that moment, I was like just

angry,

kind of like, yo, this guy could really

be messed up right now. You're cheering

for me. You're living vicarious through

me like I'm a pitbull or something,

>> right?

>> And I got angry at the audience. I

[ __ ] hated them. And I said, "Cuz if

I was down on the ground, you'd be

cheering for the person that put me

down." And something just snapped. And I

go, "No, this is not enough for me. This

is this is not this is not what I want

to do."

>> And and you know, just something

snapped. And I I much rather

be skillful,

test myself in a skillful way. Um, and I

much rather not try to peel your head

off, but show I could

as opposed to, you know, that triumph of

dominating you, right?

>> It was nothing for me anymore in that.

um you know and just something just

something just rubbed me the wrong way

and I just anytime I would do any kind

of competition it was for me and it

wasn't for an audience you know I just

something soured

>> I I always thought at one time I'm going

to be called out you know and I thought

oh I I'll I'll rise to that occasion if

that that happens and you know kind of

like remember the thing with you and

Wesley

which would have been oh my god that

would have been terrible but um oh yeah

but uh but I always thought hey you know

maybe you know something

>> I think Wesley just needed money I mean

that was one

>> I don't I don't think he'd ever be I

don't think there was ever serious it's

very much like I think

>> we were in negotiation for quite a while

man we had lawyers involved

>> yeah it's always easy to pull a plug on

something like that just like John

Claude's talking about fighting uh Jake

Jake Paul right

>> is he talking about that already he's

100 years old he weighs 50 pounds

I'm like, "Come on, man. Come on.

>> Is he really talking about

I just saw something in the last couple

days. I'm like, okay."

>> I think Wesley was serious because I

think they had um they had hit him with

that tax case and he owed a lot of

money.

>> This is before that tax case.

>> No, no, no. It was in the middle of it.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. 100%. I know it was. Yeah. Yeah.

It was 200 I want to say five or six. It

was in the middle of all that and he was

in trouble. It was it was serious

>> and he you know obviously eventually w

up going to jail.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean

>> and so they were going to set up a fight

with him and JeanClaude Vanam. That was

the first fight. But Campbell Mlan Yeah.

Campbell McLaren from the UFC was like,

"No one gives a [ __ ] about you fighting

JeanClaude Vanam. You got to fight

someone who's current." And so he said,

"Let me contact Joe Rogan." He called me

up and he said, "Would you be willing to

fight Wesley Snipes?" And I was like,

"What?"

>> And I was like, "Come on, really?" I go,

"What is this?" And so I said, "Let me

think about it." I thought about it. I

called him the next day. I said, "Let's

[ __ ] do it."

>> Really?

>> Yeah. I was training with Rob Cayman in

the mornings and then I was doing

jiu-jitsu at night. I trained twice a

day for 6 months.

>> Wow.

>> I was always tired. I was always tired.

That's one thing that I realized like,

[ __ ] man. To be like, and I wasn't even

a professional really, but it was

training like a professional. It's like,

I can't believe how tired I am all the

time.

>> Uhhuh.

>> Um, but you know, I think Wesley had

never really had a fight. I don't think

so. I think he he was a he was an

accomplished martial artist. He had good

technique.

>> I I trained with Wesley's instructors,

you know, Marcus Elgato was good friend

of mine and um and also uh Lamar

Thornton who was

>> Marcus Elgato's instructor. That's I

believe the that's the only that's the

the the lineage I I believe that he he's

through. But I mean, I've never I've

known Wesley since way before he was

kind of Wesley. Well, I was a giant fan

of Wesley, too, which was also wild for

me

>> because I love Blade. Blade was like my

favorite comic book when I was a kid.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't I didn't think

they were serious about I didn't I I

couldn't imagine why would Wesley I I

always thought it was not real.

>> I think Wesley thought that I was just a

grappler and think he knew that I was

doing jiu-jitsu. I don't think he knew

my background. Mhm.

>> And so like they were Wesley was talking

to them saying, "Oh, he he thinks he's

going to be able to stop you from taking

him down and he's going to catch you

with a knee while you're coming in to

try to take him down." Like I go, "Oh,

he wants to stand up." I go, "I'm way

better at that."

>> Yeah. Yeah. I was I was wondering how

that even occurred. I I didn't think

that was serious. I was like, "Okay,

>> it was serious." Yeah, it was serious.

It went on for a long time. It was a lot

of negotiation to the point where I even

talked about it on the UFC broadcast

once.

>> I said, "Come on, Wesley, sign the

contract. I'm getting bored training.

Let's do this." Like, I have to do it

now. I was like 35 or 36. I was like, "I

don't have much time left. If we're

going to do this, we have to do this

now." Like, come on.

>> Let's go.

>> And then he decided not to. And then I'm

like, "That's probably for the better."

>> Yeah. I I knew Wesley for a while. I

remember uh when he was first telling me

about the sovereign being sovereign.

>> Yeah. That's where they got him with

that sovereign citizenship.

>> Yeah. And I was like I I'm I'm

>> I wish I was friends with them. I would

have said, "Dude, they're going to lock

you up."

>> I was I'm super protective of my

friends. I've always been that way. And

with Wesley, I was always like my thing

is he used to have people around him

that I'm like, you know, we we have

little gettogethers at my house or

whatever. I'm like, don't bring any of

those [ __ ]

or it's going to be a problem. You know,

cuz there's there's people that just I

felt like were hangers on and

>> you know that kind of a thing. And I was

always like, "Yeah, man. You are you

good?" And you know, are you um staying

healthy? I'm I've always been that way.

Cuz the way I look at it, he's he's a

big brother. If not for him, it may not

be for me. You know, he gave me some

good advice early on. He always

encouraged me if I'm doing if I have a

movie that's overseas, get there. you

know, show up in in those overseas

markets and let them know that you're

you're down, you know, and um I took

that to heart and and that helped me out

in my career a great deal. And so I you

know, I look at it like that. I've never

I'll never say anything derogatory about

him or whatever. So, I mean, I'm always

I just recently tried to reach out to

him like a couple days ago just to check

in, man, because I I you know, I I I

wish him the best and and you know, I

want to I want him to like really, you

know, start kicking ass again.

>> I would love to see him return as Blade.

>> Yeah, that would be cool. That would be

>> He could do it, too.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> An older Blade.

>> Mhm.

>> He could do it.

>> Yeah.

>> [ __ ] He was good in the original Blade.

That's that opening scene. That was one

of the best scenes in any action movie

of all time when it's that vampire party

>> and the the the the sprinklers start

spraying blood and they're about to kill

that dude and all a sudden Wesley shows

up.

>> Yeah, man. It's what what really gets on

my nerves is that,

>> you know, he saved Marvel, man.

>> That movie saved Marvel, you know,

right?

>> Oh, yeah. That movie was a huge hit.

>> Even Stan Lee admits that.

>> They were like in trouble until that

movie.

>> Isn't that crazy?

Superhero movies are the biggest [ __ ]

movies in Hollywood right now.

>> I mean, when they have a big budget

movie, superhero movies are like the

only movie that you can throw hundreds

of millions of dollars and be sure it's

going to kill it in the box office.

>> Yeah.

>> Whether it's the Avengers or Spider-Man

or Superman or whoever the [ __ ] it is.

That's the only kind of movie that

Hollywood's like, "Yeah, okay. We'll

throw 500 million at this one."

>> Yeah. And, you know, it's it's I'm not a

big fan of those things. I I I I know

it's not they they didn't design it for

people like me, right?

>> So, it's it's for the fan base. And to

me, it's like uh you know, I

>> they they they tend to meld into each

other as far as I'm concerned.

>> They do. They do. There's only so many

times you could tell the stories.

There's only so, you know.

>> Yeah.

>> But I I still enjoy them. I still enjoy

some of them. They're fun.

>> Yeah. I I I like when people are

believable,

>> right? believable.

>> Yeah. There's nothing believable about

those.

>> Yeah. You know, like the actors that

were like, you know, have some

quirkiness and some some, you know, edge

to them, right? You know, so yeah. Yeah.

Um, you know, maybe I'm being unfair

because I had really hadn't seen a lot.

Maybe I owe it to myself to give some.

>> No, I think you you got it there. It's

simple entertainment. It's a silly

release and escape. That's all it is.

It's not a great There's no great films

that are superhero films,

>> right? Yeah. Cuz sometime I'm like, "Oh

yeah, she's 90 pounds and she just threw

a Okay, let me

>> like Charlie's Angels or something."

>> Yeah. I'm like, "Oh, stilettos."

>> And it's like anytime somebody lands in

a three-point stance and then looks up,

I'm like, I I just changed the channel.

>> I'm just like, "Stop. Just stop."

>> Yeah.

>> But, you know, but people love those

things. I'm like, "That's cool."

>> I don't know why they have so much

appeal, especially in the American

market. M

>> people, that is one of the only movies

that you can make that's guaranteed to

be huge.

>> Yeah, it's it's McDonald's, man.

>> It's McDonald's. But I I remember when

>> that's it.

>> Yeah. I remember when they you know, you

had uh what was that like uh the 300,

>> you know? That was like nobody nobody

knew anybody,

>> right?

>> But that was just such a breath of fresh

air cuz it looked like some bad asses

that were real. Yeah.

>> You know what I mean? I'd like to see

more of that kind of a thing. Like, you

know, not the sty star power thing, but

just some [ __ ] that you

believe, right?

>> You know what I mean? That that would,

you know, that would attract me.

>> Also, the style of that movie was so

unique cuz it blended fantasy with

reality. It blended like comic history,

too. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You know, knock wood. I got

some some things in in the works.

>> Do you?

>> Yeah. What are you working on?

>> Oh, man. I' I've been blessed, man. I've

got some really good movies coming out

and some things that I'm planning on

doing. Really, I'm getting to a place

where I'm really shooting the things

that I want and I've been producing and

all that stuff. So, you know, so, you

know, I have movies that have their have

their body count, but also have a little

bit of like something to say.

>> You know what I miss?

>> What's that?

>> Spawn.

>> Oh, man.

>> Bro,

>> a lot of people Yeah,

>> people forgot about Spawn. You don't

hear about it anymore,

>> right? Yeah, man. That was [ __ ]

great.

>> Yeah, I had my Man,

you didn't see Most people didn't see

the first adaptation of it. The first uh

uh Well, I saw a cut of the movie before

it. I mean, at this time, it had like 71

special effects in it, but Bob Sheay at

the time that was running New Line liked

the that version. He just gave the

director Kart Botch to to just add

whatever he wanted. And the director was

a special effects guy. So he started

throwing special effects in there that

was really killing the story

which kind of drove me up up a wall cuz

then like you didn't even see why my

character wanted to get back. you didn't

even see the the life that I wanted to

get back to because there was so much

special effects. And even when I saw the

final version, I'm like, "What the hell

is going on?" People that knew Spawn,

they were fine with it cuz they

understood the character. But for me, it

was like the story got all convoluted,

but like, you know, but I mean, people