Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

Good to see you. [music]

>> You too, Joe. How you been?

>> Great. Great. Great. We're just talking

about peace of mind and dealing with

cooks. Is there anybody who argues

online more than you do? Like you might

be the [laughter] you might be the

number one guy who I see in clips like

constantly getting in arguments with

people online. I'm not sure that there

is anybody who takes on more debates

yearly, high and low profile, than I do.

>> Yeah. I mean, even casual ones.

>> Correct.

>> It's like you're always sparring. It's

like you're always uh you know, you're

always having keeps you uh sharp.

>> For sure.

>> Keeps you sharp if you're So, I also

have this rule that you know there's

like the clout game online, right? All

these people want to play the clout

game.

>> What What is exactly the clout game? H

it's like you have you don't have a big

enough follower account for me to

respond to you. You don't have a big

enough audience for me to discuss things

with you, you know, things like that.

And it's like I hate that.

>> That seems pretty silly.

>> It is silly. And some of the best

debates I've ever had with guys who had

like four followers on X and they're

like, "Let's go in this X space and

talk." And I'll hop in there with him

and I'm like an hour later I go, "Man,

that guy had a lot of good stuff to

say." a lot of people out there that and

oftentimes those are the ones who don't

have a lot of followers because they're

not sucked into the social media web.

They're just out there thinking and

doing things and living their life.

There are a lot of [ __ ] interesting

people out there that you never hear

from and a lot of not interesting people

that you hear from constantly

>> all the time.

>> It's like the politician thing, you

know? It's like we were talking about

that uh the other day like there's this

lady that's running for god something.

Is she running for governor of

Wisconsin?

Is that what it is? And she was just

talking about how Thanksgiving hurts

people like [laughter]

>> what?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know her

background. I think it's the same lady.

At one point in time she was in a mental

institution.

>> Why does this not shock me?

>> Doesn't shock me. But this was the point

we were saying nobody wants to be the

[ __ ] governor and the people that do

are there's a a high percentage of

cooks.

>> Yeah. Power attracts um strange people.

Sometimes it attracts good people.

>> Yes. Occasionally

>> it often and but often those are the

people who go in and they want to change

it. Like the the idea that they have is

look I'm trying to run for the right

reasons because I actually want to

change how this works. But they're few

and far between

>> and they get killed. A lot of them get

killed or they get run off. A lot of

them just get involved in

like um they their normal day-to-day

life, you know, from 20 years prior. Now

suddenly that's coming up, you know, and

they have to defend themselves against

criticisms that they never would have

believed that they would have to defend

themselves from.

>> Yeah.

>> And so character assassination, I think,

takes a lot of the good actors out. They

don't want to deal with a character

assassination.

>> Well, it seems like they want total

compliance on both sides. on both

parties, total compliance with the

party. And if they think that you're

going to be some outsider rebel that's

going to take over the [ __ ] you.

>> Well, you kind of I think you kind of

have to have that a little bit though

because if you got universal suffrage

necessarily, everything converges into a

two-party system. So, as suffrage

expanded throughout history, you saw the

emergence of parties right alongside of

it as more people became infranchised to

vote. So, you think if women couldn't

vote, there wouldn't be parties.

>> There probably would still be parties.

It probably still be a two-party system.

It's just that how how it works is that

if we continuously expand suffrage,

let's just say we expand it to another

group of men. Now, those men have some

special interest, right? So, if it's not

just property owners, let's say it's now

um you know, people who live in a city,

well, they want a levy passed so that

their kids can go to school, right? So,

they pass it on the property owners. uh

now they can vote to hand themselves

money. So now you have a wedge issue.

And so you'll see parties start to form

around these wedge issues. And the more

you have universal suffrage, the more

you end up with party politics until you

have a convergence of two. And usually

it's along a certain wedge issue. So the

only way in a in a dialectic where you

have two parties, a Democrat and

Republican, to get your your legislation

passed is to be able to outvote the

other side. Right. So, you kind of have

to have them all in line or else

>> that makes sense. Um, and there's no

room in this country at current point in

time for another party. No one would

accept it. We we think about other

parties like they're a goof. The Green

Party like it's a that's a protest vote,

you know,

>> Libertarian Party.

>> Yeah, I've done that. I've done a few

protest votes back in my day.

>> Yeah. I talked with uh I was arguing

with Rex Jones the other day. Alex

Jones's kid about this. And I told him,

I'm like, "Look, you don't have a prayer

in starting a third party in time for

midterms and then the presidential

election that's coming up in just a

couple short years. You're not going to

be able to replace this system. You're

not going to be able to do that.

>> They're too The roots go too deep.

They're they're too intertwined power

influence.

>> Like, think about the infrastructure.

billions of dollars in NGO funding,

>> all this outreach program. Just to get

on a ballot in a state is often a

multi-million dollar uh thing that you

need to have a party apparatus behind.

>> Yeah. It's kind of nuts, right?

Multi-million dollars to to spend to get

a job that pays you $170,000.

>> Uhhuh. [laughter]

What a why. You think that [ __ ]

student loans are a scam? That's a crazy

story.

>> I love when these guys come in uh for

their $100,000 a year job and then they

leave and they have $25 million in the

bank, you know.

>> Yeah, that happens often. I wonder what

happens.

>> When do they get all that money?

>> Yeah. Well,

>> how about the Ilhan Omar thing?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> That one's wild. Like they estimated her

net worth somewhere like in the it was

millions, like 30 million or something

crazy. And then she said it was a error

and that it was actually like a lot less

than that like a h 100red thousand or

something like really reasonable.

>> Like you imagine if your accountant was

so bad. You're like hey Mike how much

money am I worth? [laughter]

And he's like I think you're worth 30

million. And you're like [ __ ] yeah dude

thinking about buying a Corvette. And

you got and you got $3,000 in the bank.

[laughter]

And then you call Mike the next day and

you say, "So 30 million?" He goes,

"Actually, it was an error. You're worth

about a hundred grand." And you're like,

"Hey, Mike, I'm going to kill you cuz

you stole $30 million from me." That

doesn't make any sense.

>> 100%. And [laughter] do you think do you

think maybe she like strategically

started moving some things with her

accountant so that she had a vineyard

that they owned that never made a bottle

of wine?

>> Sounds right.

>> Is that a case? Is that the case with

one of those businesses that closed

down? listen and pick on her. It's it's

if you look at the Republicans and the

Democrats when it comes to uh insider

trading, it's [ __ ] everybody. It's

red, blue, red, blue, red, blue. It is

this is not a one party thing. This is

why it's never going to stop. They

they're both dipping their toes in.

They're both having fun.

>> You basically always have the

expectation of corruption.

>> So even if you put your candidates in,

so you're trying to get something out of

that, right? some issue that you're

trying to push forward. You almost baked

into the system have to accept a certain

amount of corruption is going to come

out of that. So like let me give you a

really good example of that, a key wedge

issue like abortion.

>> So you got Christians who are just

adamant, right? This got to stop. Will

they accept if it's the case that

candidates are really moving the post on

that? If they're really moving

legislation against abortion, do you

think that they would turn a blind eye

to a little bit of corruption? probably.

>> Yeah, there's definitely some

compromises that get made both on your

morals and the way you view financial

issues and all kinds of things. I mean,

it's never there, especially when

there's only two parties. Like, you're

with us or against us. It's us and them.

It's good and evil. That's it. In this

country, that's really how people look

at it on both sides. It's good versus

evil.

>> But you have an alternative there that's

that's even worse or can at least

sometimes be worse. So, let's go to like

the UK or Canada or places like this

where they do round voting. You have

more than two parties. That's true. But

do you really want your president to be

elected with 10% of the vote?

>> Right.

>> 15% of the vote. You want your

politicians to be put in with 9% of the

vote?

>> Because that can happen.

>> Yeah. That's crazy,

>> you know. Yeah. Between these rounds.

And so, you think about it and you go,

this two-party system sucks. But then

you look at other places that have

multiple parties and they do their

rounds of voting and you're like, "Wait,

see, you could get elected with only 14%

of the so everybody else hates you."

[laughter]

>> Yeah. There's the weird argument of the

benevolent dictator. I'm sure you've

heard this argument, but that a society

is best run by a benevolent dictator.

Someone who really truly has ultimate

power but actually cares. a good person

that cares about the people, that really

just wants things to be reasonable and

have a working meritocracy and have a

working economy and have working

education and everything work correctly

and weed out all of the corrup fraud and

corruption because he's a king and he

can just like

>> he can just do it

>> do it whatever the [ __ ] he want, you

know? Like look, I'm I have only been to

Dubai one time um because we uh we had a

UFC over there and I had to go to the

weigh-ins. The weins were in Dubai. saw

a lot of [ __ ] Ferraris and

Lamborghinis in 10 minutes. But from

what I hear, it's the most safe place on

earth. Like literally like

>> Romania under Vlad.

>> Yeah. Like what would you say?

>> Like Romania under Vlad the Impaler.

[laughter]

>> I don't think it's that bad.

>> How can you how can you hang gold in the

street? And he's look around.

>> There's a bunch of people impaled

everywhere.

>> He would do them in designs. He would do

them in geometric patterns. So you would

realize he was being creative with

impaling people. wasn't messing around.

>> Oh, no, no, no. You know his story.

>> Yeah.

>> He was kidnapped when he was a small

boy.

>> Woo. There a lot to that guy

>> and his brother and their their, you

know, inter brother conflict that they

had for years and how he got power, lost

power, came. Yeah, there's a there's a

tale to be told about Vlad the Impaler

for sure. But probably a pretty safe

place to live. [laughter]

>> Yeah. Dubai. Like if they catch you with

a bag of weed, you're going to jail for

the rest of your life or they'll kill

you.

>> Yeah. You're done.

>> Yeah. They've they have crazy laws.

There was one guy, I think it was Dubai,

who

I think he had

like marijuana seeds in the sole of his

shoes or something like that. Like he

had stepped on a marijuana seed maybe in

his apartment.

>> Yeah.

>> And he was didn't have any drugs on him,

nothing. and they they put him in jail

for a long time, man. I forget this was

a few years back, but it was a crazy

case. There was another lady who got

arrested. I forget what happened, but

she later a guy tested positive for

poppy because she had poppy seed bagel.

And I don't know if you know this, but

if you're testing for drugs and you eat

a poppy seed bagel, you could pop for

heroin.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that. But doesn't

with modern tests, isn't it a little bit

better now?

>> I hope so. I don't know. 2008. This is a

British traveler in Dubai was stopped

the airport. Lab found 0.003

grams of cannabis in his shoe soul.

>> Holy [ __ ]

>> Yeah, that's crazy.

>> That's crazy. He received a mandatory

4-year sentence under the UAE's strict

drug laws,

>> though he was later released early.

>> How early is early?

>> So, the British government came in and

tried to barter him out of there, I'm

guessing,

>> I guess. or the the whole world must

have been so outraged.

I mean at a certain point in time they

have to say we we run the risk of never

having tourists visit us again and Dubai

is a very tourist central place.

>> Sure.

>> But I have a a friend who moved over

there a while back. He moved back to

America recently, but he moved over

there and he was uh he was like, "Dude,

it's just safe for me. You know, I don't

worry if I go out, you know, someone's

going to like he's big black guy. He's

like, "I don't want to get shot." He

goes, "I I worry if I go out." He goes,

"Over here, there's nothing like that.

There's no crime." He goes,

"Everything's nice. Everything's clean.

You could leave a Rolex on the street.

They'll pick it up and turn it into the

cops. Like, no, nobody steals nothing

over there."

>> But there's a trade-off for that, right?

[laughter]

>> Bit of a trade-off. Let me

>> show you my geometric patterns of dead

people.

>> Dead people everywhere on spikes who we

impaled from their buttocks through

their throat.

>> And they don't die immediately.

>> No, they wiggle for a while.

>> I don't think they do that in Dubai, but

they let you know.

>> Yeah. You're not [ __ ] around. There's

no [ __ ] around.

>> I saw some lady get in a screaming

match. She was trying to do the thing

that a lot of people do in America at

the airport

>> and she got in a screaming thing with

the the lady at the counter and they're

like, "Not today." They just come over

and [ __ ] cuff you up and take you

away. Like you can't you can't do that

there. You can't like you can't spirit

airlines, you know?

>> Do you prefer that? Would you prefer

that society?

I don't think people should be able to

just [ __ ] scream and yell at people

that work behind counters. I don't think

that's productive. I don't think

smacking them in the head cuz they can't

get you a flight. We've all seen that

kind of [ __ ]

>> There should be zero tolerance for that

kind of violence.

>> But what if we tweaked it a different

way? Okay.

>> Okay. So, what if instead of bringing in

like some crazy Sharia in order to make

sure that that happened, just brought

back dueling?

>> Like, wouldn't wouldn't dueling solve

like 95% of this? Dueling re requires

people to wait before they turn around

and shoot.

>> That I'm not trusting a guy who wants to

kill me to not jump the gun.

>> But that depends on the rules, right?

Like you could adjust the rules a little

bit.

>> I guess adjust the rules. But it's like

if you could if you could call somebody

out former you or something like this,

right? It's like I think people would

probably be a lot more polite, wouldn't

they?

>> They probably would. I think there's

probably a better way than shooting each

other in the street.

>> Probably. [laughter] Probably. But

there's probably a better way than that.

>> Even like fist fights,

>> like that there's a better way than

that, too. You don't have to fist fight.

Like, come on. But,

>> you know, there there there's certainly

something to be said for a society that

is more orderly and uh people follow the

rules and are as long as the rules make

sense and these people are friendly and

kind and they make for good community

members. And they're not putting up with

mentally ill lunatics just rocking

around causing problems everywhere,

which is what American society is now

dealing with.

>> You did you see what just happened in

Wisconsin where they had the uh they had

their own autonomous zone.

>> Oh yeah.

>> It just got broken up today by the cops.

>> I didn't see it got broken up.

>> It got broken up today. Yeah. See if you

can find it, Jamie. Uh there was video

footage just [ __ ] army of cops came

in arrested everybody's spray paint all

the streets get declare autonomous zones

on public like what is [laughter]

>> remember Chaz and Chop

>> we have a we we've just declared this an

autonomous zone. Sorry.

>> Madison officials clear Willie Street

encampment. Police officers arrest

protesters who resist at Corey Ruiz

memorial site. I do not know this Cory

Ruiz story.

>> Uh the Cory Ruiz memorial show. Was it

something ICE related perhaps?

>> I think that's what this is, right?

>> Mhm.

>> Is that what this is, Jamie?

>> I have no idea.

>> Um did something happen? Something

happened? Someone got shot, right? You

don't know about it either?

>> No.

>> See, that's the problem. There's so many

[ __ ] things in the news that it's

impossible. Unless you're a maniac and

you're just online all day, it's

impossible to know exactly what's going

on. You take a couple days off and smell

the roses

>> and you get back online. How come you

haven't commented on what what is it? I

don't even know what you're doing.

>> You got to catch up for 4 days for one

day.

>> Yeah. Also, like what hot take? Maybe

you shouldn't have a hot take on

everything. Maybe some things you need

to like let it play out in the news.

Like let people dissect it. See, now

that I wish that that was a message that

more people got that the idea that you

don't have to rush immediately out there

to tell everybody your latest hottest

take,

>> which is oftentimes, by the way, stupid.

It's often the stupid take because you

have no [laughter] information,

>> right? But you got to rush out there.

You're going to get those views and

clicks quick, but then you're you're

married to that take.

>> Exactly. Yeah. and unless you come back

and make another video or make another

take and explain why you [ __ ] it up.

But I think that there's um there's

something to be said for uh like there's

a lot of stories that are in the news

like I don't [ __ ] know exactly what

happened there. Like let's let this one

play out a little bit. Like this one

seems weird. Like if I come out with a

hot tail like who [ __ ] knows what's

really going on with 15. Like there's so

many different stories in the news it's

impossible. Police. Was that Jamie?

>> I didn't find the details, but it is a

police killing. It says officer involved

>> shooting of Cory Ruiz.

>> And that's I don't It doesn't I'm

looking for evidence and video. I didn't

check Twitter or anything yet.

>> Um, put it into Perplexity. Ask

perplexity. What is the controversy

about the killing of Corey Ruiz? Okay.

[sighs and gasps]

You can't you can't be this. We're not

designed to get all the bad news of 8

billion people. We're just not designed

for that. That's not a normal thing for

a person to absorb.

>> It's also driving a lot of people crazy.

>> Crazy driving them driving them to

insanity. They think they they start to

see conspiracy everywhere. They start to

see um you know plots of interest where

there aren't any,

>> right?

>> It starts to actually drive people mad

because they can't disassociate between

the fact that there is sensationalism

and then there's reality and the way

that people think. They think in frames.

And

>> so if you think in a conspiratorial

frame, you're usually taking tangential

things and piecing them together that

don't belong,

>> right?

>> But then if you think in an autistic

frame, as my friend Paul would say, if

you think in an autistic frame, you're

going to hone down so deep on one detail

that you miss the entirety of the

picture,

>> right? So you have to have an idea

between these two things, right? It's

like conspiracies exist. We know this.

Many of them exist. There's many of

them. I can state off the top of my head

like MK Ultra. That was a conspiracy

that existed.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. There's But there's also a lot

that don't,

>> right?

>> And so, how do you disassociate between

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the recogn recognition that some of

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>> flooding his own.

>> Yes, this is a common strategy. What

What was it, Jamie? You pulled it up.

Uh, controversy centers on whether

Madison police needed to use deadly

force against 38-year-old Cory Ruiz, a

black man, during a July 2026 arrest,

and on the lack of body camera footage.

Oh. conflicting narratives about the

threat he posed and the broader concerns

about racialized policing. Police

responded reports of a man allegedly

looking into parked vehicles and

stealing bicycles. During the attempted

arrest by four officers, a taser was

deployed but reportedly failed. Police

say Ruiz pulled a knife and injured an

officer after which that officer shot

and killed him. Cell phone video

recorded by a bystander shows part of

the struggle and shooting and quickly

went viral, triggering protests and

public outcry. Use of deadly force

versus alternatives. Community members

and Ruiz's family questioned why lethal

force was used when multiple officers

were already restraining him on the

ground and a taser had been deployed,

arguing that he did not deserve to be

shot to death in the street. Lack of

body cameras. None of the officers

involved were wearing bodywn cameras. So

the only visual recording is bystander

video which fuels distrust and demands

for more accountability and measures and

technology. We need more flock cameras.

Conflicting narratives about threat.

Police emphasized that Ruiz stabbed or

injured an officer with a knife, framing

the shooting as a response to an

immediate threat. Critics and loved ones

question whether the threat justified

shooting a restrained man and whether

deescalation was properly used. Well,

first of all, if he really did stab a

police officer, if he's stabbing a

police officer, like they are supposed

to shoot him, that is you you can't take

you can't say, "Someone's stabbing me. I

hope they're only hurting me."

>> Yeah. Right. Or how do you assess the

amount of force that you can use back

when someone's stabbing you? I think

that that's responding with lethal

force.

>> What did you say, Jamie?

>> Probably find the video.

>> Yeah, let's find the video. But it's

also um how big is this guy? if he's got

all these people and are these like a

bunch of like shitty untrained police

officers who don't know any martial

arts? When you say he's restrained, like

how restrained was he?

>> You know what I mean? Like if you got

two dudes

>> that are uh built like Tony Hinchcliffe

and they're trying to hold me back from

[ __ ] somebody up.

>> It's not going to do nothing

>> that you know what I mean? It's like how

big is this guy?

>> What what happened?

>> Was he the one that was stealing things

or was he uh wrongly accused? Does he

have a record? Is he a violent person? I

don't know anything.

Is he a complete innocent bystander?

This is the video. Video contains

graphic content. Okay,

>> that was

>> that's it.

>> That's all the one showed.

>> So, there's probably multiple videos.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

The thing about the tasers is it's

[ __ ] weird, man. Tasers on some

people, they lock them up and they

[ __ ] and they fall down. I've seen

guys just scream and rip those things

off their chest like it's nothing.

>> Well, sometimes those probes don't

penetrate either. Right.

>> Right. I think some of those tasers are

a bunk, too.

>> 100%.

>> Some of the tasers are just [ __ ]

equipment. I mean, that's the only thing

that makes sense. So, these guys

>> Did you ever play with one of the

handhelds when you were a kid? No.

>> Somebody always had a handheld

somewhere.

>> No, I never did. Electric fence though

once.

>> Yeah. You shock your Oh, yeah. That'll

that'll make your teeth clatter.

>> Holy [ __ ] dude.

It's letting go. That's hard.

>> Yeah.

>> Disturbing video. Okay.

>> Oh, there's sound on it.

>> I mean, there's yelling.

[laughter] Put a earphone so we can hear

the sound.

>> There's the taser.

>> Oh, okay. Hold on, man. Back up. Back

up.

>> What was he reaching for on the ground?

>> Is that the girl? The woman shoots him.

Taser, I think. [laughter]

>> Okay.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> I can't tell who shot the gun, but that

was [sighs]

>> Okay, that's crazy.

>> That does not look justified. That looks

like they had control of him. Unless he

had a knife and was stabbing people. But

even if he was stabbing, like how much

control do they have on him before she

starts shooting him?

>> Was it the chick who shot him?

>> Yes. Look. See, she backs away. Watch.

>> They tase him. They get him to the

ground and she shoots him while they've

got him down on the ground.

>> Female cops.

>> Yeah, that's not good.

That's crazy.

[sighs] I again, I don't know what

happened. I don't know if he stabbed one

of them. If he really did have a knife

and was stabbing him, but it seems like

they had him restrained.

>> It looks like that's the guy who shot

him. I can't tell.

>> But that lady stands back and extends

her arms with a gun right there and he

puts his

>> Oh, you're right.

>> It looked like he shot

>> Oh, it's the guy shoots him.

>> Yeah, she I think she had the taser.

>> She's shooting him with a taser. Oh,

>> let me see that again.

>> WHAT?

GOD, it's hard to tell. Is it? So, it's

the guy in the back.

>> I think it's the guy in the front. So,

if you The dude in the back, you see the

guy right next to Yeah, that guy.

>> That guy shoots him.

>> It looks like it. I'm not sure.

>> That's really close, too.

>> God, it seems like

>> the second the shots stop, he puts his

hand his gun back. Makes me think maybe

it was him.

>> Yes.

[ __ ] man.

That does not look good.

>> [sighs]

>> That's not a good one.

>> No.

>> No.

>> No. Doesn't look great.

>> No.

>> That means you have to give us your hot

take now, Jill. [laughter]

>> Yeah, that's my hot take.

>> So he could run to Twitter with it.

>> I need to know like did he actually stab

one of them?

>> So then it says during a press

conference, uh, two of the cops were

injured in the altercation.

Police said the suspect allegedly pulled

out a fixed blade knife to which an

officer pulled out a taser. Same officer

shot him with a gun.

Okay, that's different. So, if he really

pulled out a knife and was trying to

stab them

>> and they had him on the ground and they

couldn't totally get control of him and

that guy just decides, "He stabbed me,

I'm going to shoot him." That's a

different thing.

>> I agree.

>> That's different.

>> Also, we didn't have the front view,

>> right?

>> So, we see the view from the back.

>> We It's very blurry the whole thing. We

didn't even know who shot. We thought

the lady shot him.

>> It's hard to tell what the [ __ ] is going

on. You can't even tell if it's a taser

or a gun in her hand. It's that blurry.

But if uh he stabbed them and he's got a

knife, that's a different thing, right?

The whole thing is [ __ ] though. Like

that is the last thing America needs

right now.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, you don't want

another riot season. [laughter] I mean,

I wonder um if people would go right

into it the way they did before without

US A's help. [laughter]

>> Here's what a witness said he saw.

>> Witness came flying around on his

bicycle. One officer tackled him. Two

other officers kind of rushed over. One

of the officers yells, "He has a knife."

One of the officers then draws a taser

and yells, "Taser, taser, taser." He

tasers him. So, it says he tasers him,

but wasn't that the woman?

>> That I mean,

>> I'm not sure that she actually tasered

him or she had her weapon.

>> She might have just had her weapon out.

>> Uh, he tases him and the victim falls to

the ground.

>> The three continue to struggle for a

second or two. Then, one of the officers

stands just a couple feet above his

head. shooting the V. Okay. Three times.

Three times to the head. Holy [ __ ]

>> It did look like he was the shooter.

>> Okay. So, that's what we saw.

>> Yeah. And the thing the tell for that

was as soon as he was done, he put it

right back. The cops weren't doing that.

>> Additional video that has been not been

circulated online that's being reviewed.

>> Oh, why don't they have body cameras?

>> And that's what I mean. That's probably

part of the whole protest was that their

cameras were not on. So,

>> or if they didn't have them, I don't

know.

>> Did they Let's find that out. Did they

not have them or were they not on?

>> Uh, lack of body cameras. None of the

officers involved were wearing body

cameras.

>> H. So,

>> none of them.

>> That's Are they supposed to?

>> Yeah, that may not be part of the

ordinance.

>> Yeah, I don't know about the city of

Madison.

>> How about fix that?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, fix that.

>> You know, cops often are the ones who

suggest that.

>> Yeah. For their own for their own

safety. They say that they want to wear

body cams. I've seen a lot of crazy body

cam footage where a guy is pulling

someone over and they're just having a

casual conversation. All a sudden the

guy pulls a gun out and starts shooting

them.

>> Yep.

>> I've seen a bunch of those.

>> Tons.

>> Especially the routine traffic stops.

Happens constantly.

>> You have to always think like if you're

in an altercation with a cop,

>> these people are always worried that

this is where their life is going to

end. They're always worried that they're

going to get shot. They're they've seen

those videos, too. So, if you start [ __ ]

with a cop and he freaks out and goes

the wrong direction, like you're

probably dealing with a guy who's got

some serious PTSD.

>> Yeah. He's seen it before. Or his

buddy's gotten gotten plugged right

there.

>> They've all seen it.

>> Yeah. I have a friend who uh spent a lot

of times overseas uh deployed and he

said in combat and he said he saw way

more as an Austin cop like way more

[ __ ] up things and all the time

whereas you know you're not in war all

the time you're not in firefights all

the time because like it's like every

day every day you're seeing something

[ __ ] up that you can't unsee

>> and you see it with kids

>> things you got to deal with with kids

things you got to deal with with all

sorts of things and it's like

>> that is not a fun job

>> and I would not want it at all. So, I

always do tend to cut law enforcement

quite a bit of grace until I hear what

their side of things are because that is

a that is a brutal job to have. I have

buddy of mine's a deputy sheriff

>> and I talk with him. He's policing a

small area

>> and he's like, "It's the stuff with the

kids that gets him."

>> Yeah. Exactly. Like, that's the stuff

you'll go, you know, go into a junky's

house, there's a 2-year-old there,

hasn't eaten in 4 days, you know. Oh my

god.

>> He's like, that's the stuff that really,

>> you know, he's like, I'd rather shoot a

person than that. [laughter]

[sighs]

>> Which kind of makes sense to me, right?

Like I would It does.

>> Yeah. I probably would too. You know,

when you you think about

who should be allowed to have kids, who

should be like, that's what's really

crazy about freedom is that any two

crackheads with no money at all just on

the side of the road and he can nut

inside of her and that creates a life

and that life they're responsible for.

And they're smoking crack and drinking

Everclear and they have a baby grown

inside their body and no one can do

anything about it. It's like there's no

protection for that baby. There's no

nothing. And then if that baby is born,

if it does live, like, you know, you

talk to people that have actually like

been in the delivery room with crack

babies, it's like, oh my god, man. The

horror stories about a child addicted to

drugs, coming out of the womb addicted

to drugs. Yeah.

>> And detoxing.

>> Heavily addicted.

>> Heavily addicted.

>> Yeah. Ghoullish.

>> It's so twisted. It's like people can be

so awesome and so [ __ ] at the same time

coexisting on the same patch of dirt and

uh no one devises a legitimate strategy

for mitigating the amount of people that

suck

>> and the problems with

>> can it can it even be done?

>> I don't know. I mean not with not with

freedom. I mean this is the flot camera

question.

>> You know do you want big brother looking

at your license plate everywhere you go?

Well, listen. If someone shoots up like

that, this was a argument that Mark

Andre made on this podcast. When he had

come here, right after he uh right

before he had come here, there was a

shooting in Austin where some kids just

randomly started shooting at people and

then they uh couldn't find them in

Austin, but as soon as they left Austin

city limits, they went into an area that

had flock cameras and they got them like

that. So, this was his argument for the

benefits of flock cameras. But

>> I do believe he invests in vlog cameras.

>> Well, sure. I mean, but you can make

that argument with CCTV as well. You can

make that argument with

>> everyone wear a chip. Everyone wear a

body camera.

>> Sure. The thing is is you have to be

cautious with the idea of the nanny

state for another reason besides just

protecting people's independent privacy.

It's because those things often become

money wells.

>> Oh yeah.

>> For people to steal from the public

trough.

>> Oh yeah.

>> And that is the major issue. Right. So

some of the some of the reasons I tend

even though I'm on the paleo-Christian

side to lean towards a lot of the

freedom elements over the n is because

of the corruption. The corruption which

happens often times when you try to

curtail too much right that in and of

itself creates a system and that system

becomes ripe for corruption. Let me give

you an example. Flock cams. Who we

awarding the contracts to,

>> right?

>> And who's going to be uh servicing those

contracts? Who's going to be doing these

things? Right? That's where you start to

see uh with new systems there becomes

new corruption. So there has to be a way

to curtail. But there's some things that

are pretty obvious that you could

curtail. And who cares if people [ __ ]

about it? Like let's take uh online

prostitution for instance. Okay, great.

It's illegal to do only fans, let's say.

How the hell could that possibly be bad

for societ? Like what is [laughter] what

is that going to do? That's just oh we

got to have that though, Andrew. We got

to we got to have that. It's like I

don't think we do. I don't think it's

necessary. And if we got rid of it, like

who cares, you know? It seems like it

would just be a massive net positive for

every human being if that was just done

away with altogether. And it's like what

the the systems that come in too though

for policing it are prone to corruption.

So you got to be cautious about it.

>> Right.

>> Right. You got to be cautious about it.

>> Also, I just don't like people telling

people what to do even if they shouldn't

be doing it. I don't like it. I

>> I mean to an extent though, right? Like

if they're heroin addicts, you're going

to be like, "Nah, we got can't

>> Well, even that like I don't think you

should be a heroin addict, but I don't

think I should be the one to tell you

not to do heroin." I don't cuz I think

that's a slippery slope and then it's

don't smoke cigarettes and then it's cuz

cigarettes are killing you and then it's

don't drink whiskey because you could be

a drunk driver and kill a family of

five. Like it's all the same [ __ ] It's

like,

>> but do you think that all those have

kind of the same impact on society

ultimately?

>> Well, the heroin thing is a weird one

because um

>> cuz [clears throat] like the argument I

make would be like the incest argument.

It'd be like look that's outlawed for a

good reason. But what if you have two

people are totally sterile? Like they

can't have kids, right?

>> What's the moral argument that can be

made? And there people are like, "Well,

there I can't really make a moral

argument that it's just gross. You're

>> [ __ ] your sister."

>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. What are you

doing? It's just gross. And it's like,

well, but can we legislate off of it's

just gross. And and the kind of the

libertarian mindset is

>> no, we can't. And I think yeah, we can.

I'm okay with that. Like I'm okay about

I remember uh debating with D Smith who

brought this up.

>> What would you do? Would you arrest some

guy and his sister if you found out they

were boning each other?

>> Why not arrest him?

>> Why not? Like how would that how would

deterring that societywide

ever be a bad idea?

>> I don't think it is. However, it's

technically a victimless crime,

especially under the circumstances that

you described, whereas they're both both

sterile. I do not think you should be

able to do that.

>> No,

>> but well, I don't think you should do

that, I should say.

>> Yeah.

>> But in the case of Cersei and what's his

face? What's the other dude's name in

Game of Thrones? The brother and sister.

>> Oh, yeah. They really seemed like they

were in love, dude. I mean,

>> but they had kids. They had like incest

babies, right? Who went on to [laughter]

rule kingdoms and they were all like

Joffrey

>> Joffrey

>> probably didn't want the incest baby in

charge of the kingdom. It didn't work

out so well.

>> The other incest baby was in charge of

the kingdom. He jumped off the roof.

>> True. And was it Jon Snow technically

doing incest as well with

>> the queen of dragons? Like, weren't they

both

>> They're related.

>> Yeah,

>> they're in the basket. They were they

were pretty uh somethingust

in the Game of Thrones.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah.

>> But the other argument there that's

interesting is it's like okay that's you

know fair enough. It's a victimless

crime. But you just kind of extend that

like okay well then why can't a guy have

five wives? Why can't he have 20? Why

can't 20 gay men all get married and

adopt one child? It's a just victimless

crime.

>> Yeah.

>> It's like so the doesn't the slippery

slope kind of go the other way a little

bit too?

>> Yeah it does. It does go the other way.

And the the multiple wives thing, didn't

they just pass something like that in

Toronto? Wasn't that in Ontario where

they're allowing polygamy now because uh

they have so many Islamic people living

there that think that you should be

allowed to have

>> Well, remember there's big pushes for

that in Utah because of the Muslim

population.

>> Well, you know, that's why Mitt Romney's

family moved to Mexico. [laughter]

>> Really?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> It was due It was due to the multiple

wives. I didn't know that it was due to

the multiple wives. Well, not

specifically, but that sect of Mormonism

fled the United States when they passed

polygamy laws.

>> And I think there was probably just a

broader crackdown on this perceived new

cult. They thought of it as a cult. Now,

it's just established religion of really

nice people that knock on your door.

>> Yeah.

>> They drive around.

>> I must I I must admit, I have debated

many Mormons and they are just the

nicest people. The nicest people. The

nicest people. It's the best cult. And

it makes me it it like it's upsetting

because I'm I'm like look I'm about to

expose that your prophet was totally

fake and you know I'm trying to get

people into the debate and they just end

up being like the nicest people and I go

a man.

>> So uh having multiple wives or spouses

is illegal in Canada under section 293

polygamy and section 290 bigamy. What is

bigamy?

>> Uh isn't that is that the other way? Is

bigamy the other way? Polygamy is the uh

man with multiple

>> What's Do you know what it is, Jamie? Do

you know what biggyamy is?

>> Ever heard of it?

>> I don't even think I've ever seen that

written. The act of marrying one person

while still legally married. Oh. Oh,

okay.

>> Oh, a bigamist. Right.

>> Interesting story here though.

>> What?

>> Some guy was married to four [snorts]

people at once. Sorry.

>> Four people at once in some way or

another recently like this year

>> in America.

>> In Canada. See Canada.

>> He was married to four women at once.

multiple wives married. So, he got

multiple marriage licenses and should

not have been given them or something.

>> Oh, well, he doesn't look Muslim.

[laughter]

>> That guy looks like he's just a regular

Christian guy.

>> Oh, well, he does look Muslim,

>> but I don't know if it has anything to

do

>> He might not be, though. He might just

be a baller.

>> He could be a Muslim.

>> Yeah, I don't know if it has anything to

do with religion.

>> Go back to that case in Canada, though.

Isn't there something where they're

trying to pass it in Toronto?

>> I don't think so. I mean, I typed in

Toronto multiple wives.

>> Um, no. Um, Toronto, Ontario polygamy.

>> That's

>> I think they were trying to pass

something.

>> I mean, that's so I went to news to see

something, you know, that would have

poss.

>> Was it Ottawa? Maybe it was Ottawa.

Yeah.

Canada polygamy.

No new law in Canada legalizing multiple

wives.

>> Perhaps proposed law.

>> Yeah. Well, I don't know. Maybe it is a

proposed law. Maybe I just read some

horseshit on Twitter, which is very

possible.

>> I've been off Twitter for a few days. I

feel pretty good.

>> It's good to It's good to unplug from

Twitter.

>> Yeah. Every now and then I just go in

and I'm like, "God, who are they mad at

now?" Oh god.

>> Can I ask you a question? Yeah, sure.

>> If you went into to X tomorrow, let's

say,

>> and there was an option there where you

could select it and it's like US

accounts only. That's all you could see.

Do you think that 90% of the traffic for

people would go away?

>> A giant percentage,

>> huge percentage, right?

>> Huge percentage is people being

manipulated into arguments.

>> Um, it is a strategy foreign assets

>> by foreign assets. It is a strategy is

real. This is not tinfoil hat [ __ ] Um,

we brought this up multiple times on the

podcast, but I'll bring it up again just

for the sake of this. There was an FBI

analyst who uh took a look at Twitter

when Elon was buying it, and he

estimated that 80% of the traffic is

bots.

This doesn't surprise me. Remember

YouTube did an internal audit and when

they did their internal audit, this was

a few years back and when I when Susan

still ran it, I believe they did an

internal audit and found out that most

of the people that they had on YouTube

are bots and they did a great purge.

>> Wow.

>> Right. That's where the that whole dead

internet theory and all that really

started to pick up traction was that hey

look a lot of this stuff is bots foreign

accounts people who are manipulating US

uh elections they're manipulating uh

various US interests and this is

happening all over the place.

>> Yeah.

>> Right now you have progressives

uh who are funded by ACTB blueue right

and I've proven this we we traced all

their money. It's progressives funded by

Act Blue who are pushing the same

narrative that like Candace Owens and

others are pushing on the idea of

Charlie Kirk's death and the conspiracy

around that. So you have

>> so they're absolutely being paid to push

this.

>> Well, their stated mission, this

particular progressive group, their

stated mission was to take down TPUSA.

I'll tell you a story. This is the tale

of all tales. Okay.

>> So, uh, Charlie Kirk has this huge

outreach program that's happening

through TPUSA on these college campuses.

He's got viral clip after viral clip

after viral clip. They are going wild.

He's going campus to campus. He's doing

his thing. He's being dogged by a

progressive organization. this

progressive organization shows up at

almost all of these TPUSA events with

the stated mission of trying to create a

counter movement to what TPUSA is doing.

Now, the woman who heads this particular

organization received millions of

dollars from ACT Blue and other

progressive organizations for this

stated mission. That same woman right

this second works with other OP X

accounts to push the messaging that

Charlie Kirk was assassinated by his own

TPUSA insiders in order to push that

narrative forward because the stated

goal still from that organization is to

destroy TPUSA.

>> So they've how do we know that they've

done this? Is are there emails that have

been found?

Well, the stated goal of this particular

person

>> is to take down

>> is to take down TP USA. She's very open

about that. And then the way that you

know that they are talking to these

other accounts is because they do it

publicly.

>> Those public accounts will talk to this

account, right?

>> Very openly. They reaffirm each other's

post. They say, "Wow, that's real

interesting." This kind of thing. all

affirming that same uh conspiracy that

TPUSA

was the ones who actually set up and

murdered Charlie Kirk

>> and it millions of dollars in Act Blue

funding going towards this. No joke.

Anybody can look can look it up right

now. The organization's called Unfuck

America.

>> So, how do they think that his

organization

did this? that they convinced Tyler

Robinson to do it or that they think

someone else

>> I don't think that the progressive

organization does believe that TPUSA did

this. I think that what they want to do

>> Oh, no. I I understand [clears throat]

that. But I mean, what are they trying

to say?

>> Oh, well, the here's what the theory is.

So, take uh Ian Carol within 24 hours

after Kirk's death blames Israel. Within

24 hours, he says Israel killed Kirk.

That was his tweet went mega viral. What

the conspiracy is on that side is that

Israel along with Erica Kirk and TPUSA

insiders got together with uh elements

of the US government to murder Charlie

Kirk because he was going to leave the

quote pro-Israel cause.

That's what the theory is,

>> right? and that that he was either

murdered, some of them say with a

microphone exploding, some of them say

with a uh there was a second shooter and

Robinson's a pathy. It all depends on

which theorist you're talking to, but

they all work together in the same

unison from a single camp, which is

interesting.

>> Well, a lot of people had um takes on

the shooting, and the microphone one was

the weirdest one to me. Um, it's weird

because there's no like, yeah, the shirt

is moving, but also a bullet is going

like how many feet per second whizzing

through the air? Like, do you

understand?

>> Yeah. So, where's the air going to go?

>> People don't understand that.

>> You know what got me though. So, I went

back and looked because they say that

it's the same explosive which was used

inside the Israeli pagers. Now, that was

very real. Israel sent these pages.

>> Be an explosion. That's my take. My

point is like there's no indication that

there's an ignition

>> there. It's worse. There's no smoke,

>> right?

>> There's no Now all the Israeli if you

pull up if you pulled up right now one

of these Israeli pagers going cuz

there's tons of videos of them.

>> Oh, really? Let's watch. Let me see some

Israeli smoke pulling off.

>> There's smoke.

>> Is there a dude like where it's on his

hip?

>> Yeah. Oh yeah. Yep. There's one where

it's on his hip and and gets him and you

can see the cloud of smoke coming off

because of the specific type of ignition

from

>> Right. But is it possible that this

pager thing is different than whatever

they think this microphone thing is?

This microphone thing has some sort of a

different kind of propellant. But then

again, you you'd have to like Okay,

let's let's imagine what kind of

propellant exists,

>> right? Compressed air.

>> There's not enough room in that

microphone to get enough compressed air

to blow a hole in your neck and kill you

instantly.

>> Well, they claim that it's

>> unless it's something else.

>> It's this what is it? PEN explosive.

This is the particular type that had to

be used for the size of the microphone.

But you have another problem. The mic's

on the wrong side of where the wound is,

right?

>> The other is there's no burn marks.

There's no smoke. There's nothing.

There's like there's nothing to confirm

this theory at all.

>> You'd have to guess where that mic is

cuz he's moving around too. You have to

guess where that mic is pointing. You

could take someone out.

>> So, I found two videos that one that

goes. I'll show you this happens again

here.

>> Watch the smoke

>> right here.

>> See all that smoke? [laughter]

Oh, let me see that again.

>> Watch all this.

>> Dude was just chilling and boom.

>> It blew up in his bag though.

>> Yeah. So, a lot of them like they didn't

die. They go to the hospital and they're

just like, you know, hurt.

>> Probably because they had it in their

bag or something.

>> I found a couple one other video here.

>> Well, these guys are going to be

carrying around like armored satchels.

[laughter]

>> Well, yeah. You could like a couple of

them were on bikes and stuff when it

happened.

>> Like that guy got [ __ ] up.

>> Yeah, he got messed up real bad. There's

some or they give you the illusion they

did by blurring out his head.

>> That's the other part. I mean, not that

these are fake, but yes, only 11 were

killed by the pagers.

>> Still pretty slick.

>> That was extremely

slick.

>> I mean, crazy. They they sent him off to

them years ago.

>> That's some CIA [ __ ] man. Like, that's

some deep massage [ __ ]

>> Yeah, it's crazy.

>> That's probably where the CIA learned

it. But that's a explosion, right? And

yeah, you see smoke, but is there some

kind of a propellant that would be

lethal from a short distance with some

sort of a projectile?

>> It's possible,

>> but it would also like have to be like

how are you aiming it? You're not even

aiming it. It's sitting up here, right?

So, if it's sitting here and he's doing

all this and moving around, like it

might take his ear off. It might zip

whiz to the side and shoot somebody else

if he leans over.

>> Sure.

>> Unless they planned exactly when it's

going to go off and it's pointing

towards his neck like

>> which Yeah. It seems like a gunshot

wound. It's just hard to imagine that

it's a 30 odd six. That's my issue with

it. I look at it and, you know, I've

I've seen takes from guys that are gun

experts

and they they have a problem with it,

too. The thing about guns, though, is

weird stuff happens when you shoot

bones. Like it is possible that you

wouldn't get a pass through depending on

how it squared the spinal column,

depending on how it hit and depending on

what kind of bullet it is. Uh I forget

the type.

>> These are 150 grain core lockips.

>> That's right.

>> And they're soft tip. So they only have

enough of a jacket

>> to keep the bullet together.

>> Right. The idea is that expands inside

the body causing massive trauma.

>> Right.

>> Right. So

>> which is why I use them for hunting and

probably you have too.

>> Yeah. No, I haven't used that particular

round, but um

>> it just seems like

>> it's a lot of [ __ ] lot of energy

coming towards your neck.

>> It's hard to believe that it wouldn't

blow a hole through the neck and leave a

big [ __ ] just take a chunk out that

it would just make a a round hole. But

that's beside the point, you know?

There's other weird stuff with like the

video. I don't like

there. There's a lot of people saying

that the video um is super clear.

They're seeing 4K footage. It's clearly

Tyler Robinson on the roof. No, it's

not.

>> Jack Persobic and Vinnie Johnson.

>> That's crazy that they said that. That

is not clear. That is a blurry figure.

You could barely ascertain as to whether

or not there's a recoil when someone

takes the shot. It does seem like the

guy on the roof gets in a prone position

and it looks like something that might

be a rifle, right? It's blurry as [ __ ]

>> It also does look like there's kickback

on the right leg.

>> It looks like there might be some

recoil.

>> It's hard, but it's not clear. Like for

them to say it's crystal clear. It's

Tyler Robinson. It's on the room. It's

like

>> Well, it's interesting when when

Prosobic came out and said that and

Benny Johnson, there was another guy who

was there who I know. His name is Kai

Schwimmer.

And Kai put out a tweet. He said, "Look,

they might have sensationalized this

just a bit." Okay. He said, "But the

video that we did see in the courtroom

was actually much clearer."

>> Oh, okay.

>> So, I DM'd him and I DM' Jack Prasobic

and I DM'd Well, I couldn't get a hold

of Benny, but I DM'd Jack Presc

did you try to over sensationalize this

thing for clicks? Like, what's the deal?

He said, "No, listen. The footage we did

see inside the courtroom was actually a

lot clearer than anything that the

public has seen so far. That's their

claim. Kai Schwimmer, now I wouldn't uh

just take Pobic as word, but Kai

Schwimmer, he's a Mormon Mormon kid. Uh

not very prone to tall tales. In fact,

he was the first one who came out and

said, "Look, I was there and you're kind

of over sensationalizing it. It is a lot

clearer, but it it's not showing

everything that you're claiming it's

showing." M. So, it's clearer, but it's

not clear enough. It's not like 4K

closeup clearly in his face. The other

thing that was weird was the guy in the

crowd that jumped up and said, "I killed

him."

>> Mhm.

>> That's weird. And that guy, wasn't he at

the Boston bombing as well?

>> So, he's a professional agitator who's

been at tons and tons of these events.

Later, he's found, I believe, with kitty

porn. Right.

>> How convenient. Well,

>> well, also maybe that's the kind of guy.

>> That's the kind of guy though, right?

And so his um he has been at tons of

events agitating and he is well known to

law enforcement for doing this. Um so

that's kind of what they're they're

stating for him. The if if you're

looking at this from a broad view, if

you're looking at the conspiracy side

versus what they call the fed slop side,

let's say, it makes sense for them to

say, "Hey, wait a second. That's really

weird. This guy jumps up and says, "I

did it."

>> Right. That makes him he's a psy

distraction. Something like this. That's

how you look into the guy.

>> Right.

>> And the guy is a lunatic who's been at

many of these events. Yeah.

>> Doing crazy stuff like this.

>> That's the thing is both things can be

true. Like MK Ultra is real. Also, that

guy might just been a cook who's in the

crowd who took advantage of a situation

cuz he's literally insane and he's into

kitty porn.

>> Yeah. Both. Well, there's no doubt one

of the biggest kind of false narratives

that comes out of this and when I do

debates, one of the things I'm trying to

structure around is like I know that

we're coming in with a narrative, but I

need to understand yours and you need to

understand mine so we can get somewhere

towards what the truth is here, right?

>> Because you're going to have a frame of

which you're viewing the world, a

worldview, and so am I.

>> And so everybody has a worldview. We we

have to figure each others out to get

somewhere

here with this. One of the most

disturbing aspects of it is they the

people who promote this actually don't

want their worldview or their positions

to be examined. They only want to

examine the evidence from the state.

It's like that would be fine. I think if

it was the case that you made no claims

past that,

>> right?

>> So if you just only say, hey, you know,

I'm not really sure what happened and I

want to really kind of review the

evidence and that's that. I don't really

have a problem with that. I think that

that's probably healthy. The issue that

I run into is when people make claims

past that, it was an exploding p, you

know, exploding mic, right? It was uh

two different shooters. It was a folding

rifle. It was a that 306 couldn't do

this. Even though the US Army, remember

the 306 used in the M1 Grand was used in

World War II and then it was used in

Korea. Before that, we had the 03

Springfield. It was used heavily in

World War I, World War II, and again in

Korea. The US Army has studied 3006

entry wounds in depth and produced many

manuals on it explaining how cavitation

works with 306 and that the bullet

doesn't always penetrate and that's with

full metal jacket rounds

>> that are designed for maximum

penetration, not 150 grain core lock

coming out of a an antique rifle

essentially. Uh it could easily split up

very quickly and that's why they ended

up pulling fragments out of Charlie. It

wouldn't surprise me if when we have all

the data from the coroner report that he

has tons of shards all throughout his

chest, all throughout uh his entire

because they were saying that there's

trauma inside the chest which would make

sense if the bullet split up here,

right?

>> It would create all sorts of fragments

down in the chest,

>> right? That that is an important

distinction about the type of bullet.

>> Huge distinction. the FMJ especially um

because that's what the army is using is

FMJ ball ammunition. It's cheap to

produce, right?

>> So they're using it in all these

different wars and the amount of people

shot with that caliber between World War

I 2 and Korea is astronomic. They even

use the 3006 in Vietnam in limited

capacity especially the 03 Springfield.

It was still in service by special

forces.

>> Wow. So the question becomes like the US

Army has studied this in depth and I

went back and I pulled all their manuals

and I've even put them out and several

people have uh done the exact same thing

and put them out explaining how

cavitation works and they're saying look

the energy dissipation the second it

hits a human body it dissipates very

very very quickly with the resistance.

So it doesn't always go through. Now

often times it does with the FMJ but

even then it didn't always go through.

So, you know, it's it's a wellstudied

phenomenon. Another one would be Martin

Luther King. Martin Luther King gets hit

through the jaw, ends up here. Well, if

it's just going to blow through all

bone, why did it stop in him? Well, it's

because the second it has impact, it

begins to slow down, and then it impacts

something else, slows down even more.

So, it's totally possible that this guy

was hit with a 30 six. I don't I don't

know why that would be in the realm of

impossibility. we have enough data on

the ammo to know that yeah, it's very

possible this happened.

>> Um, it's it is definitely possible. Um,

there's a lot of people that think that

the sound was not they think the sound

indicated that it was a closer shot than

where it was. And I've heard a lot of

people say, well, there's also an issue

with it being supersonic ammo. So,

you're getting two sounds. You you're

getting a sound of the bullet actually

breaking the air. You're also getting

the sound of the rifle going off. I

don't understand it.

>> It's difficult there when you're making

the judgments on the sound because there

are people who have run experiments

saying right down to the second this

meets up with the shot placement.

>> And then there's people who say, "No,

there's, you know, that experiment is

bogus due to the controls for this or

that."

>> The problem is is that most of these

people don't have any expertise in this

arena at all.

>> They're just yapping

>> and they're just Yeah. Exactly.

>> Yeah. Yeah, they're just trying to, you

know, and I get it. You're trying to

figure it out. I understand

>> the Israel thing. Um, there was some,

uh, text messages back and forth where

Charlie was talking about getting out of

the Israel business. And there was this

position that he had where he did not

want us to go to war with Iran.

>> All true.

>> Uh, and he had a lot of influence. And

then there was also that Israel

supposedly had offered him $150 million

to be more pro-Israel.

>> That is the problem that we've run into

is like I've never been able to verify

that was the case and I've

>> Okay, so where does that claim come

from?

>> This claim basically comes from this

camp without anything to substantiate

it.

>> So it's the same people that are pushing

this thing, the turning point kill.

>> What's interesting about this is like it

is indeed true. It does appear that

Charlie Kirk was extremely pissed off at

some of his donors because they were

trying to control who he was

platforming. They were upset that he had

platformed Tucker Carlson. They were

upset that he had platformed Candace

Owens. They were upset. And why? Well,

it's because Tucker Carlson, Candace

Owens, they were very anti or at least

had a somewhat anti-Israel message at

the time. Carlson, I think a bit more

than Candace or maybe it could be the

reverse, but I don't think that that

matters too much. The donors were pissed

off. Many of them were pro-Israel and

some of these donors were applying

pressure. And so Kirk was lamenting

inside of his text messages about this

pressure he was experiencing from some

of his donors about who he could or

couldn't platform. And so as a

negotiating piece, he said, "Well, I'll

leave the pro-Israeli cause if you're

going to try to tell me who I can and

can't platform."

>> And that was kind of what his position

was.

>> Now, that seems like platforming. I

don't know. Um, even even on Twitch

politics or YouTube politics with

smaller uh channels, smaller streamers,

they argue about platforming all the

time. Responsible platforming. Is it

responsible for you to platform this

guy? Is it responsible for you to

platform this terrorist? And they're

endlessly fighting about it. So, this

actually doesn't surprise me a bit that

these guys are fighting over uh who you

can or can't platform. If you're giving

your money to an NGO for the purpose of

giving the pro- cause and that NGO is

saying, "Wait a second, I'm going to

platform people who are against your

cause." Of course, the donor is going to

get pissed.

>> Yeah. The platforming thing, I think, is

just gatekeeping. Um, if you're upset

that someone is having a conversation or

a debate with someone that you don't

agree with, that the only you're

supposed to hear that person's

perspective. You're supposed to supposed

to hear them challenged. You're supposed

to hear them allowed to flesh out the

full point of view.

>> Not like in weird clip form, but go

ahead, tell me what you really think,

and I'm going to tell you why I disagree

with that. That's healthy. It's supposed

to be what we do.

>> Cuz that's the that you're basically

reciting what Kirk's position was.

>> Yes. And what he was always really good

at. Unfortunately, there's a few clips.

There's the clips thing with Charlie

where he's saying things and people

think it's racist. He's saying things

and it's like you have to understand the

context of what he was saying and I've

had conversations with black friends who

think like he was saying if I see a

black pilot on a plane uh I get worried

is he qualified.

The reason why he's saying that is

because there's specific laws that were

designed to hire people just based on

their race and not on their competency.

He wasn't saying that black people

weren't competent as pilots. What he's

worried is that in the rush to meet

these quotas, they're going to hire

people who are not competent just

because they're black. Just like if they

wanted to hire old white guys, they can

hire a bunch of old white guys who suck

if they just want to fill a quota of old

white guys. It just happens at this

particular time what he's talking about

black people. And it seems like if you

just look at the clip, this racist piece

of [ __ ] doesn't think black people can

fly a plane. And as that's the

unfortunate thing about thinking out

loud, right, which is what we do. We

think out loud in public. And when you

think out loud in public, someone can

take what you're saying and take a clip

of it and completely out out of context,

it looks bad.

>> Happens to me all the time.

>> It happens to me, but I've I had that

conversation with people about Charlie

and I'm like,

>> I don't agree with Charlie Kirk. I

didn't agree with Charlie Kirk on

everything. I met him once. He was a

very nice guy. I met him at a gun range.

I met him at Taran Tactical in uh LA.

It's a place where you learn like

serious gun shoot. This is where Kiana

Reeves learned for John Wick and

>> bunch of us.

>> Is that where all those videos are from

where K Reeves is going between shotgun

to three gun and that kind of thing?

>> Exactly. That's where I met Charlie.

>> He's really good at that by the way.

>> Oh yeah,

>> he is really good.

>> He's [ __ ] dedicated man. When he was

practicing I mean I talked to Taran

about it when he was practicing for John

Wick. I mean he was obsessive.

>> He was obsessive. And you know that

whole uh magazine thing he does the

flick, he invented [clears throat] that.

>> That's not something that's like a

standard thing. Most of the time people

just hit the release, drop the mag, pop

the new mag. He decided to do this jazzy

flick thing and now people do it all the

time. It's kind of funny.

>> I never put that together. Um I guess I

haven't actually seen that before. No.

Before the

>> Wick. I think it's him. I think it's the

Wick Flick. I think I think yeah

[laughter] I think Keanu at least this

this is the people that were

>> but even the way he reloads the shotgun

is interesting

>> right the way that he'll he'll actually

hold it up as he's going in

>> and in between a few shots he's loading

again it's like

>> and fast

>> yeah that's not that's not the thing

that you usually see in movies usually

in movies it's like you have way more

rounds than you should have to

compensate for how bad the actor is at

gun handling for him it's like the

opposite

>> I do that in movies I'm like why is he

shooting shooting still. He's out of

bullets.

>> 29 shots. He's out of bullets.

>> Did you ever see The Walking Dead?

>> You remember the famous scene where