I'm Lucas.

>> Hi Lucas.

>> So nice to meet you both.

>> Nice to meet you, too.

>> First off, I just want to say thank you

so much for taking time to chat with the

community and um answer all the

questions that everybody has. So,

grateful and thankful for that. And then

also, shout out to Nell. He's also my

cohort. I'm also becoming a coach

>> Oh, wow.

>> Magic. So, also, he's working his ass

off. I will say, he's always in there

chatting and he's up to it. So, I can I

can give confirmation.

>> The The question is a dynamic about our

relationship. So, I feel like aspiring

coach, there's some apprehension about

sharing it just cuz it feels like so

raw. It's not just me, it's our dynamic.

>> Okay.

>> you two are ready, it's it's it's more

of a a thing we've been talking about

for a while. So, it's we need an outside

perspective. So, we're super interested

to hear what you have to say. So,

basically, I struggle to feel okay if

she's not okay. And there's a specific

scenario that came up a couple weeks ago

where we were both sick and not feeling

well. We had food poisoning. And she was

sort of requesting a certain amount of

comfort and care. But in that moment, I

was trying to service my own needs and

take care of what I wanted to. And we

were in the situation where our needs

didn't match in that moment. And it's

doesn't always come up this way. And I

wonder about our attachment styles as

well. We've been diving deep into Dr.

K's lectures on attachment styles.

>> Okay.

>> I'm avoidant. Um and she has an anxious

attachment style. So, there's some

pieces there.

>> Oh, no.

>> Not made in hell is what Dr. K said. So,

we're trying to climb the ladder out of

hell here, Dr. K. We need your help

desperately.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you guys can do

it. So, so match made in hell, but one

of y'all is uh is is capable of the Dark

Magic, right? Which I'm not sure will

[clears throat] actually help in the

situation, but but and by the way, even

though it's a match made in hell, there

are many couples that successfully

navigate to graduate to secure

attachment. It's doable. So, you guys

are not doomed. But it's challenging,

but keep going.

>> Uh yeah, and and a little bit of

background, I do feel like we have moved

more towards secure attachment. Like

we've been dating for 5 years. We did a

year of couples

>> Can I interrupt you? Sorry, before you

keep going. Sorry. I'm sorry for being a

dick. So, lesson to everybody in

avoidant and anxious attachment

relationships, when your avoidantly

attached boyfriend shows up on a couple

stream to ask a question about your

relationship, that means that you all

are doing something right.

>> [laughter]

>> So, plea- please continue.

>> I'm sorry.

>> Um yeah, so we did a year of couples

therapy about We stopped 6 months ago.

Um and our therapist focused on

nonviolent communication. I'm not sure

if you've talked about what nine

nonviolent communication is, but I feel

like a lot of the tools are things that

you talk about lean that way a little

bit. And so, we use that dial, that

framework of communication, where you

say how you're feeling, you say why you

feel that way, and then you say what

need is behind that. So, we try to

communicate like that when we can, but

then

it's not perfect. So, we think a lot

about what are what is our need behind

what's happening.

And so, in the situation where our needs

didn't match, we I don't know. I feel

like oftentimes we're able to work

through it, but in this one, I think I

have the expectation that he was feeling

better than I was at the time. So, like

if anyone's had food poisoning, like it

comes in waves. And so, I was having

like a really bad, like, I can't walk.

I'm in a ball, like,

oh, my stomach cramps are so bad right

now moment, and he was feeling better.

And I think he was feeling like, oh, I'm

finally feeling better. I want to do

something for myself. And I was feeling

like, I'm really struggling right now,

and I just want some comfort. And so,

and I know part of like the anxious

attachment style is like you're seeking

like reassurance from the outside

sometimes.

But in this situation, I felt like it

was very much like not in It mean it is

partly emotional, but I'm like the need

is more physical, I guess.

>> What What do you mean the need is

physical?

>> Maybe it is more emotional. Like I feel

like I wanted comfort because it's like

I guess I couldn't do anything physical

in the mo- Like there's nothing to make

the actual stomach pain better, but I

wanted someone there like with me like

to feel

>> What did you want Lucas to do?

>> Full disclosure, I wanted him to watch

The Lord of the Rings with [laughter]

me.

>> Okay.

>> a commitment. That's like 3 and 1/2

hours.

>> [laughter]

>> He just No, I don't want like

Even if it was just like 30 minutes,

just like while that wave while I was in

just like so much discomfort, I wanted

to like be with like not feel alone in

my physical discomfort. And I And I

realized that I have this expectation

that if we are physically sick, that we

show up for each other if we are able

to. And I felt like he was able to, but

he was choosing not to show up for me.

And I didn't know how to reconcile that

and also while trying to take care Like

I've worked really hard through our

relationship to be like, "Okay, I'm I'm

taking care of my own need. I'm not

putting it onto you." Cuz I used to do a

lot of manipulative behaviors where it's

like, "This is your responsibility." And

that's a lot of what we learned in

couples therapy,

how to service your own needs. So I

think what I'm struggling with is how At

what point is an expectation reasonable?

And at what Like at what point do I

expect him to to fulfill a certain need?

And when is that unreasonable? And when

is that like my anxious attachment

style? So I'm having trouble

distinguishing that.

>> A relationship lays in your hands.

>> Can I take this one?

>> Yeah, you can take this one, but Okay,

go ahead.

>> Great.

>> Attachment styles aside, this sounds

like a communication thing. Uh and first

of all, I've been suckered into watching

the extended edition annoyingly, so like

I get it. But one thing that Alok and I

kind of found was quantifying the need,

like how badly do you need this? So like

I'll just ask you, like scale of one to

10, how badly did you want him to be in

bed with you?

>> That just clicked for me. I think that

was really good. Something I reflected

on is in my avoidant attachment is I'm

very self-reliant as I learned through

Dr. K. And that I didn't I assumed her

experience was over amplification and

that in my position I would have not

have asked that. So I think asking the

scale will really allow me to assess

>> So like but

>> Yeah.

>> But do you remember? Like on a scale of

one to 10, like how badly did you want

him to be in bed with you?

>> I was like level eight. I was just

>> an eight

>> I was rocked.

>> So for Lucas, on a scale of one to 10,

how badly did you need to like disengage

and go do your own thing?

>> Maybe it's a cop-out answer, but I feel

like eight. Like really, I always step

up and take care of her and like do

these sorts of things. Like I was on an

up for my sickness and I was like I can

finally have enough concentration to

like just watch a YouTube video, watch a

Dr. K video, watch a HealthyGamer video

and like not think about anything. And

maybe that's a partial

>> So if you're deadlocked That's

interesting cuz we've never been like

>> just thinking, we've been doing this for

two years, we've never

>> We've never been like

>> Not a single time.

>> Cuz we'll be like, okay, I'm like a

7.92.

So you win.

>> You know, I I I think we've genuinely I

haven't done manipulation to change my

number.

>> No, no, I'm not saying that you have.

It's it's more like when we kind of see,

like, okay, this is We've never

deadlocked, so this is interesting to

me.

>> So what I thought was really interesting

is what I was going to respond with is,

okay, thank you for sharing your

experience of the situation, Ori. Lucas,

what is yours? And what I thought was

really interesting is that Kruthi was

like, okay, this is enough.

>> Why me?

>> Right, which I think is telling.

>> I thought they both described their

experiences.

>> Lucas, did you describe your experience

of it?

>> Uh par- partly. I that night I had

broken fever. I was on a slight uphill

for my energy and I was like I'm finally

see a little bit of sunshine, little bit

of energy. I just need the whole day

before I was just like in bed like not

having a good time. So, in that moment I

was sort of like this is my this is my

time and then she made the request for

me to comfort her.

And rarely does it happen that that we

both meet this moment. I'm also trying

to explore that of that um side of

avoidant avoidant attachment of

understanding my own needs and not

placing hers above mine. So, it's like

this really tricky dynamic where like

I'm also like it's coming up as am I

over indexing like my need here or am I

just using this as a shield to not

comfort her because I want to do

something selfish, which is maybe an

avoidant response, but yeah.

>> Okay, my answer's like a little bit

different. I it starts with a question,

which is what does success in this

scenario look like to both of you. See,

this is a problem, right? If the problem

was fixed, what would this look like?

>> For me, like it was like you either you

watch this with me or you don't and I

think for me success would have been

better communication the moment. I think

we both agree on that where I don't want

to watch Lord of the Rings cuz we're on

like this third extended edition. We've

been watching it while we're sick and

I'm like tired of Lord of the Rings. Can

I comfort you in another way? Is there

something else that we can figure out? I

think and he kind of tried to do that,

but he was more like I'm going to watch

my videos and you can like lay there

next to me if you want, but I'm like I

what I want to feel is not alone in my

pain. And so I think that to me would

have felt like success, if that makes

sense.

>> Yeah, I can see it it's still alive for

you. That that pain, that feeling of of

being alone, being abandoned.

>> Well, cuz it it feels like she It sounds

like you feel like you were like, "Okay,

I'm asking for a like really just a very

simple small thing." And I think Lucas

was like, "I'm maxed out. Like this is

the most I can do. I need I need to step

away."

>> Yeah. That's a tough one. I feel like

we've been there.

>> Yeah, I I've got an answer, but let's

let's let's hear from Lucas.

>> Okay.

>> Are you ready?

>> So, I did I did leave this part out. I

did try to throw out a compromise cuz we

were in two separate beds cuz we were in

a hotel room and she was on the other

side. She was have like not having a

good time and a part of myself I think

interpreted as over amplification of her

pain like I said earlier. And so, I'm

registering a part of myself selfishly

was minimizing her experience, but maybe

also like trying to be in myself. But, I

did offer, "Please come over to the

other bed, bring the laptop, like just

lay down next to me and like I'm going

to watch my thing and then we can watch

you can watch your thing like next to

each other." Um that was a compromise I

had come up with in the moment. It

didn't aim to land. Uh and then

eventually I caved and compromised and

watched Lord of the Rings, which I feel

like is an avoidant Asperger's style

because I like placed my own needs and

prioritized hers. Match made in hell,

maybe.

>> Yeah, which didn't feel good for me. So,

then I'm like I just feel like you felt

coerced and you it wasn't genuine. Like

I wanted it to feel genuine and so then

it

>> Yeah, we both lost.

>> Then what we left out is that 2 days

later I was struggling to recover from

this. It happened again and he had an

interview the next day online. And he

was like, "You're having this moment

again. Like you're the third like cuz

basically what was happening is we would

feel better and then we'd eat food and

then I would feel terrible again trying

to like eat food."

Um and it would be like I was sick all

over again. And so, this happened and he

had this interview and he kind of just

ignored me cuz I think he was frustrated

from the time before and his like the

avoidant thing came up stronger the

second time.

And like the frustration. So, it was

like a double whammy situation.

>> That's why we're trying to register as I

think are these outliers? Are these a

trend of my behavior not taking care of

her as I think her as she has

communicated one of her bigger concerns

about what has happened.

>> Like it's a big value for me in a

relationship that I can trust that my

partner will be there for me. When it

appears to me that they're able to be

there. Like I've I'm a reasonable

person. Like if they're not home or You

know what I mean? But if it to me it

seemed I I don't know. Kruti said like I

didn't seem like I didn't feel like I

was asking for much. And I want to feel

that I can trust that my partner is

going to show up for me in that way, but

also being self-reliant. So I

>> I keep seeing comments. Dr. K, how do I

apply this to a situation in my life?

That's literally why we [music] created

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>> [music]

>> Yeah. So that second time, where were

you on a scale 1 to 10?

>> It was a very It was a very same pain,

same level. It Yeah.

>> not the pain, but like do you feel like

you needed him to show up for you more

the second time? Or was it less or still

an eight?

>> It might have been more maybe because he

didn't show up the first time.

>> I think it [clears throat] did.

>> Okay.

>> I have a couple questions, but then I

also have a couple of answers. Do you

want to go first? Do you have something

loaded?

>> I'm I'm quicker I think to just get to

the answer, but you can you can ask your

questions.

>> Okay. So first of all, I think y'all are

amazing.

>> Y'all are truly so cute.

>> Yeah. So so so I I I I I think that like

y'all are y'all give me

>> hope for the relationships born in the

depths of hell.

>> Um

>> We're both yoga teachers. We're both

becoming qigong teachers. But and we've

both helped each other content. So we're

on the up.

>> I almost had hope that you could not

watch Lord of the Rings, but I realized

that wasn't going to happen.

>> Return of the King was coming out and

she had not seen the first two movies.

So I was like, this we have tickets for

10:00 at night. We You to start in the

move in the morning and you got to watch

both extended edition. I I kept her She

watched 12 hours of Lord of the Rings in

one day because I was like, "Look, you

have to see the first two, and you can't

watch the You have to watch the extended

cuz the extended is just better."

>> All his friends are there, and they're

like, "Are you loving this?" And I'm

like

>> She was I I ruined the experience for

her because she she has just watched so

much Lord of the Rings. So, it it's

funny that this is Lord of the There's

some weird

karmic something going on here. My

question, Ori, is in those moments, so

it's clear to me that you guys are

committed to each other. It's clear to

me that, you know, Lucas has come a long

way, that you've come a long way. So,

what is it in those moments that makes

it hard to remember? And I think you do

maybe after the fact, right? So, what

makes it hard to access his support and

care for you in that moment?

>> Like what emotion or what

>> What makes it hard for you to basically

remember that he is there for you even

if he's not there for you in this moment

the way that you want, right? Does it

just kind of go out the window and you

like cuz I get the sense that you can't

act cuz the way that y'all talk about

each other, there's clearly a lot of

commitment, there's clearly a lot of

compromise, there's clearly a lot of

growth, right? But that feels far from

you in that moment?

>> Yeah. Yeah, that feels That feels

accurate. Um um maybe something I think

that what comes to mind, which is

something I think I've grappled with,

we're both each other's first serious

relationships, so we kind of just like

figured out all the tough parts

together. It's been like It's a bumpy

>> and better.

>> Also, for reference, we're we're

travelers, we're backpackers, so we're

on a 9-month trip. We're also like each

other's rock.

>> Rock got Yeah.

>> Like I call I have We have networks that

we call, but if we're physically sick,

like I can't call my mom to come over or

like friends, so there's also that

dynamic. I think it comes down to loving

myself and feeling that I'm worthy of

the love that he gives me and feeling

like almost like I can't believe it

sometimes.

>> Yeah.

>> And and that anything that puts a crack

in that, it's like my mind

>> Yeah.

>> uses that as that opening.

>> Yeah.

>> Um and I'm aware of that.

>> Excellent insight.

>> Yeah, I'm aware of it, but then like

it'll still it'll still happen. I feel

like it's a lot better

>> Yeah.

>> than it used to be. Because I think it

used to cause a lot of certain like

behaviors. Now I think it causes

less behavior and the thoughts are

there. They're less, but yeah.

>> Okay.

>> I think that answers your question.

>> Yeah, I I I I can see how, you know,

that crack really lets the flood

through, right? And then even when

you're talking about it, like it's clear

that you're recalling how overwhelming

it feels, how kind of abandoned you

feel, right? And then Lucas is stuck

with sort of like, am I an [ __ ] or is

this part of her self-reliance growth

journey, right? Like we can't tell.

>> No, we can't.

>> Is this anxious attachment out of

control or avoidant attachment out of

control? Which one of We can't even

figure out. I can't tell if I'm the one

who's [ __ ] up or he's the one who's

[ __ ] up.

Okay?

>> Yeah.

>> So there's like two things that make

avoidant and anxious attachment

relationships hard. One is when two

people aren't trying and they're just in

their own patterns and you're

manipulative and he's running away and

you guys are completely unconscious and

and everyone is getting torn apart all

the time. What's really scary is that

when two people love each other a lot,

when they go to couples therapy, when

they show up on a stream, when they

watch when they're becoming Qigong

masters, they're backpacking together,

you guys are doing everything right and

it's still hard. Like look at this

situation. It's like, how do we know? Is

this a moment of personal growth or is

this a moment where my partner is

falling into their lack of personal

growth, right? I I think one thing that

we've learned, I don't know if Kirti

would even agree with this. I think

there are sometimes where there's just

an L. There's just a loss. This is

actually not a moment of growth. And I

think one of the biggest mistakes that

we can sometimes make is correcting for

every failure. Not every failure is a

mistake, right? We should learn from our

mistakes, not learn from our failures.

So, sometimes what I'm hearing is that

y'all are backpacking, y'all are

together all the time, both of y'all are

sick, and something fell apart between

you.

>> [snorts]

>> Yeah.

>> So, yeah.

>> I don't know that there is I don't care

who you are unless you're two Buddhas

who are in a loving relationship. Like

there are going to be some situations

where things fall apart. The physical

stress that you're under, you're going

to regress, you're going to slip back

into your patterns, right? So, you don't

want to correct your everyday formula,

right? So, like if I'm like serving, I

don't know, a shrimp pasta, and someone

comes into the restaurant and is

allergic to shrimp and dies, I don't

want to stop serving shrimp pasta

automatically. Does that kind of make

sense? So, I think sometimes in

relationships, things are just bad, and

and that's okay, and y'all don't

actually have to over index or correct

for that. So, that's number one, which

doesn't mean that you guys I mean I

think you're y'all are both articulated

a couple of really good things, but I

think like this is a really good it's

hard to describe, but I feel like don't

over correct for y'all's attachment

style. Sometimes the nature of the

attachment style is that it activates

kind of [ __ ] things up for like a

couple of days because y'all are sick,

right? But at the end of the day, that

has passed. It still hurts in some ways.

There's some work to be done. Not saying

ignore it, but like don't over index to

correct it is my first instinct. Y'all

are on the right path, right? And you

guys have done so much positive work

behind you. That is all paying in

dividends, but y'all are still learning.

Y'all aren't perfect yet, and sometimes

both of y'all are going to get

activated, and you'll go back to the

people that you were 5 years ago, which

is what happens with regression and

physical illness. Now, if one of y'all

develops a chronic illness or something

like that, that's a different story,

right? Because then you guys need to

develop a dynamic that will account for

this outlier. Second thing is I think

this is a really good example of

conflicting templates. So, Ori has an

idea of in this situation, this thing

means this thing, right? So, if he

doesn't do something, that means that he

doesn't care, right? And Ori has a

different template, which is like this

is a situation where he's all up in his

head, he's like, I don't know if this is

like her anxious attachment being

overblown. And then there's this tricky

thing, right? Because it's like, okay,

if we feed the anxious attachment, it

sometimes gets better and it sometimes

gets worse. So, I don't know what to do.

Am I avoidantly attached? He's in his

own head, he doesn't know really what's

going on. But there there's also I I

think the key thing here is getting

underneath the template. If you guys do

want something to work on, which I I

think y'all you were sort of like like

you know, to be able to say like, "Hey,

in this moment." And so, one thing that

I find as a as a psychiatrist is I will

actually, when people have personality

disorders or attachment styles, so this

is like kind of baked into you, you

know, I will have people put names to

it. And so, when I have a patient who

has like BPD, for example, BPD gets

better with stability, but it doesn't

get better with like unresponsiveness.

So, I'll I'll I've literally had

patients who will tell their partner,

"Hey, BPD is just really active today,

and like I need your help with that,

right?" So so so this is where like,

"Hey, my anxious attachment is flaring.

Like I've got that, you know, my my my

knee is hurting today. Like my anxious

attachment is flaring."

>> Question, are you a baby a lot? Like do

you need a lot of TLC? Do you need like

a lot of cuddles and get tucked in and

like a lot of physical affection?

>> Maybe.

>> Okay.

>> Yes, he is.

>> And then [laughter]

Lucas, does it feel like, "Okay, I've

given you all the kisses I can today. Or

like, do you get burnt out on like like

do you get touched out a little?

>> Yeah, this is something we sort of

worked through at the beginning where I

was extending my capacity to extend that

to her and then burning myself out not

meeting my own needs. So, it's been a a

development of like her working on the

reassurance part and me working on the

reassuring but also taking care of

myself dynamically.

>> And one thing we watched on you guys'

stream, which I don't know if you two

still do it, but Dr. K went "Where?"

which was the implication that you're

asking for something that was like it's

high maintenance, I think is what Dr. K

said, but it's something that you want

regardless.

Um so, that's an interesting

>> that's that's kind of where when he

talks about naming things, like we have

a similar dynamic where we're both very

high maintenance, right? We both like

like I need a lot of physical touch, a

lot of physical comfort. He like needs

things set up just so. Like "Hey, can

you like" he'll be in bed and he's like

"I need glass of water. Also, can you

fix the AC? Can you close the door? That

light

>> is still on.

>> So, like that kind of crap.

>> Right.

>> Yeah, exactly. I know. I know. And I'm

like if I have to come back here one

more time. Oh, you need a napkin now?

You know what I mean? Like that's where

it's just like that's I'm closing the

door. Bye. I can't hear you, you know?

So, like I think naming those of like

>> Mhm.

>> it really goes a long way. And like if I

need a lot of like if I need a lot of

verbal reassurance, I'm like I need you

to tell me sweet things. Like we just

kind of name it and it really helps in

the communication. This feels more than

anything a communication breakdown. You

guys have your patterns and your needs

and stuff, but I think naming things,

the scale of 1 to 10, and then like

being able to recognize like I was an

eight before I didn't get it and that

hurt. I'm at a nine and a half now, like

and then I I was thinking about you guys

being deadlocked at eight. And I feel

like in that situation, both of you

saying "Okay, let's both give each other

what we need. Like go ahead, take some

space, come back and give me 10 minutes

when you can." might be like a good way

for you guys to each say to each other

like we both really need something. But

I think it's communication and

compromise. It's not one or the other.

Like find a way for you guys to both get

what you need.

>> I I I think it's interesting cuz I was

actually leaning a little bit I think

people overemphasize communication

actually ironically. Right? So I think

sometimes like you just take the L. Like

sometimes like it's just a bad situation

and over correcting for that can be like

it cuz y'all are trying so hard right

now to figure it out.

>> I I think that's true. I don't think

this is one of them.

I think this is a learning moment.

>> Agreed. Agreed. So so that's one

perspective. Second perspective is I do

think there's some understanding of

templates, right? Where like the more

Lucas understands what works for you and

what doesn't work for you, you know, to

read each other's signals, to understand

that you don't have the bandwidth to

watch Lord of the Rings right now. But

for you to understand that this is her

signaling something that she's not even

consciously aware of in her template for

her to ask of thing, what she may need

is physical touch. Right? What she may

need is is a kiss or she needs some

signal from you that I'm not abandoning

you. Like she needs the anti-abandonment

signal. And I I think similarly in that

way so so I will I've noticed that about

Ruthie as well where like sometimes she

needs a signal that she doesn't know how

to ask for. Right? And this is where you

use the the dark magic.

>> [laughter]

>> This is one of the the It is to be used

rarely and only under only under certain

circumstances, right? For you to be able

to read and understand, okay, this is

what she needs. Now if she can explain

it to you in therapy or whatever, like

great. But like for you to know like,

okay, in in the future she may just need

physical affection. So what I've what

I've done in our relationship is just

ramp up physical affection like a ton.

Because I've noticed that and this is

another important thing in relationship.

Sometimes people get there's an

efficiency of what it costs to give

something and what someone receives.

Right? So, it costs me not much to give

her a hug. So, every time I walk by, I

give her a hug, give her a kiss, right?

But, it get it fill So, then this is the

other communication thing. So, we use

other two other things to quantify. So,

we use the ranking system, but sometimes

we'll use how empty is your tank, right?

So, like where like how empty are you

right now? So, like literally it'll be

like our kids are going to come home

soon. And then when they come home,

we're going to have to do bedtime or

whatever, right? And then I'm just going

to ask her, "How empty is your tank?"

And And so, to gauge where people are.

And the other thing that we have is "How

full is your cup?" So, like when your

your cup is full, that's like what's

your contentment level? What's your

energy level? And where are you on a

scale of 1 to 10? Those are three

communication things that I think have

really helped us.

>> Yeah.

>> I'll just ask her straight up, "How

empty are you?" It's not about whether

she had a hard day or I had a hard day

cuz sometimes you have a hard day and

your cup you're still like still got

some juice left, right? And it's like,

"You know what? You relax, even though

I've had a harder day. You recharge your

battery more. Then your battery is full

and tomorrow you're going to get a text,

'I need a napkin. I need this. I need

this, right?'" Like I'm going to I'm

going to give you a chance to rest and

when you have energy, [ __ ] spoil me,

okay?

Right? So, so So, that's that's where I

do think there's absolutely a

communication element, but I think it's

like these three things, right? It's You

guys are going to have some bumps in the

road. Like don't over index. Understand

each other's template and one to 10, how

to be able to gauge each other, right?

Because you guys don't know each other's

template. So, like where are you right

now? And then if if Ori says, "Look, I'm

absolutely empty." And you're like, "I'm

feeling a little bit better." That's

what's so hurtful, right? Is she sees

you feeling a little bit better and her

needs are still quite acute. That

doesn't make you an [ __ ] Lucas, by

the way, right?

>> Yeah, you give us so much. I don't know

if I have a question, but maybe a

response.

I think the relationship that we've had

has given me so much personal growth and

I think spiritual growth. So it's like

it's a match made in hell, but it's like

if we're really working through it right

now, there's like so much opportunity to

learn. It's it could be a match made in

heaven.

>> [laughter]

>> I'm so glad you said that Lucas because

I I I think we sometimes grossly under-

We all want good things, but like we

underestimate from like this is like

karmic and spiritual and whatnot, but

like this was your karma, right? So you

So your if we if we assume that some of

this weird Hindu Buddhist stuff is

correct, your soul, if you believe in

this stuff, is omnipotent and omniscient

and chooses the time and place of your

birth. You have these dormant karmas,

which are going to bear fruit in this

life, and y'all have a karma. You were

made for each other to have this kind of

growth. And these tensions are what

demand that you increase your awareness

and become more spiritual, become better

people. And without each other, this

would not happen. So this is not a match

made in hell. It is a match made in

heaven. Like literally, like in the

stars.

And And so I'm a big believer in that,

which is why I like, you know, I I I

love working with people with like BPD

and NPD and antisocial personality

disorder and addicts and all these

people that are like, you know, bad

cases. And I think y'all are such an

amazing example of why we started this

community and why you should not let the

things that are bad, like y'all have

avoidant anxious attachment. Oh my god,

secure attachment is better. But no one

is screwed. You guys are such great

examples of like what growth looks like

and how amazing it can truly be. And

just because you got dealt a certain

hands or hand of cards in life does not

mean that you can't be having happy

can't be in a loving relationship. So So

props to both of y'all.

>> I have one last thing for you guys.

>> Yeah.

>> And but I agree. I think y'all are great

and I think this is very fun to kind of

hear and talk about and kind of see a

lot of our patterns mirrored in you

guys. Because y'all are traveling, do

you guys have a lot of friends where

you're going? Are guys alone a lot, the

two of you?

>> We've been alone. We make friends.

>> Yeah, we're good at making friends and

we keep in touch with our friends back

home and family, but yeah, we're we're

together a lot. Yeah.

I will say it can be more challenging

taking care of each other when you guys

are all you have, right? When you're the

only person close cuz you mentioned like

I can't call my mom, right? So, I would

just be a little mindful of that. Like

maybe when you go back home, really

immerse yourself in your tribe and give

each other a break. Like when you're

back and like you're all each other have

again, like you don't feel as like

tapped out. You know what I mean? So.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we'll keep that

in mind. We got a couple more months and

then, yeah.

>> Awesome.

>> Quality recharge.

>> I have a follow-up question if you have

time. I know that this stream is maybe

longer than I did.

Um, I know originally your one of your

questions was feeling that your

emotional state is attached to my

emotional state and I don't know if I

feel clarity around that.

>> Yeah, like A not feeling well, she

doesn't feel well. Is like that um

avoidant anxious dynamic or is this

something Is this codependency? Cuz we

spend time together.

>> I I I I would actually say neither,

right? So, I I I I think here's how I

would just speedrun it, right? So, yes,

we're overtime, but you guys have also

been incredibly patient. Y'all have been

waiting for 4 hours. Um, so let let's do

our best to honor that. So, Lucas, I

think this has more to do with you than

it has to do with avoidant attachment,

right? So, I think you struggle with

being a dick. And and so, you you place

your own self-worth in your rise out of

no longer being avoidant. You place a

lot of value on okay, I need to be a

better person, right? And so, I think

you're So, in order to live up to that

ideal, it hurts a lot to have her hurt.

And then, you beat yourself up as well

because you're programmed in a

particular way and when you have needs

that are driven by avoidant attachment

or not even avoidant attachment, then

when you have completely normal needs,

you label them as avoidant to demonize

yourself because you feel bad, because

you're not living up to her emotional

needs.

>> That's the insight I was looking for.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of pieces

there I'm going to sit with.

>> Yeah, but I mean and then I could be

wrong, right? So I I could be wrong. I

mean it it seemed like you were nodding

along and and stuff, so that's like your

personal struggle, right? That's your

personal growth. Don't over pathologize

and like just continue to work on that

and recognize you know, so once you

understand that you are enough, that you

are doing a good job, then you can

understand, okay, this is her anxious

attachment, this isn't a deficiency on

my part. And you're trying so hard to no

longer be deficient for her, so then it

gets really tricky, right? Because that

ideal is going to like bring up all of

this kind of stuff, which is a wonderful

ideal to have, but you're still, you

know, working your way to like, okay, I

have done it. I'm no longer avoidant.

The moment that you understand that, the

moment you have confidence in who you

are, you will be able to let her fall

apart without you taking responsibility,

and then something beautiful can happen.

You're not responsible for it, but you

can pick her back up. Not your fault

that she's falling apart, but you're

still going to pick her back up. And

right now that that distinction is going

to be hard.

>> So I watched HealthyGamer.

>> [laughter]

>> That was true that

beautifully said. I think you have a

good pulse for the tension there that

I'm and currently coming out of and it's

sort of like a weird place. Um so thank

you for putting words in adding a bit of

perception there. I have a slight

request. I've been in a spirit's journey

for like 10 years. I need I'm looking

for resources or people to reach out to.

I've read a bunch of books. I've done

meditation. I've tried to meet yoga

teachers. I don't I've done therapy. I'm

looking for spiritual awareness. I don't

know if you could back channel anything

links, books, people I could talk to

that would be

>> What What are you looking for

spiritually?

>> I have a bunch of puzzle pieces about my

understanding and perspectives of the

world and I feel like I'm just I haven't

met people who have the ability to put

my pieces that I have together. I don't

know if that's a really good answer.

>> I don't feel super comfortable sharing

them on stream.

>> Okay, sure. So so then this is what I

would recommend. So it's hard for me to

recommend something without

understanding. I have an inclination,

but I too am reluctant to share that on

stream.

>> Where where are you guys?

>> We're in Peru currently.

>> You're in Peru.

>> Okay. So I don't know if you all have

watched the membership lectures on weird

stuff and things like that. Right? So so

okay. So I I would say what you should

do I mean that that's where we do the

weird stuff. So what I would what I

would do is I don't know if there's like

if you feel comfortable posting on in

the membership community about where you

are in your spiritual journey. If you're

not then then things become challenging.

Okay, let me think for a second. Okay,

let me ask you this. What if these

pieces were put together, what would be

different about you or what would you

achieve? What does achievement or

resolution look like for you? Can you

share that?

>> Yeah, I I felt pieces of resonance that

have made me not feel insane maybe

and I'm sort of just holding my hands

out I think sort of trying to process a

lot of the pieces.

>> Okay. So this is the best that I can do.

So I'm going to think about it and I

will teach a practice at some point for

sure in probably in memberships because

that's where I do most of the teaching

of advanced practices, but I will think

about what practice you need and I will

teach it to everybody and then you can

do that. So okay, pieces of resonance. I

got you. It's cool. Like so you know,

sometimes I'm like I don't know how to

do this. So great example is Teak Tala a

couple years ago was like hey, can you

do everyone wants to do like heart

chakra? I was like I don't know heart

chakra. I don't know that. It's not what

I do.

>> I remember you saying

>> Yeah, I was like super stressed out like

two or three days before I just sat down

to meditate and I was like oh and it

wasn't me figuring it out. So so I'm

going to just it's helped me out before.

So I'm going to ask for some help and

then I'll I'll along what I get. Hashtag

not a cult.

>> [laughter]

>> That's right. Yeah, I appreciate it. I

even the fact that I think I was able to

throw in a a few pieces and you got me.

It's exactly what I'm looking for, so

looking forward to it. Thank you so

much.

>> Okay. Take care.

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