There was a big debate between the

people we knew who was the crazier,

>> [music]

>> him for going with a person who doesn't

know how to sail or me going with a

blind person.

>> I always tell in this world once you

started saying

the biggest or big dream,

>> [music]

>> there are two groups. One group called

dream killer. No, you cannot do that.

You cannot see, so

stop it. Even stop thinking, right? The

other team I call dream supporter. Wow,

that's incredible challenge. Let's think

together how

you can do it.

>> Welcome to Meet the Leader, a podcast

from the World Economic Forum. I'm Robin

Pomeroy and I'm joined in the studio by

Hiro Iwamoto who is an adventurer. And

we're going to hear

the extraordinary experience he's had

and he's joined by

Doug Smith. Let me start by saying hello

to Hiro. Hi Hiro, how are you?

>> Hi. Thank you very much for having us

here.

>> I just described you as an explorer No,

an adventurer. Is that how you describe

yourself?

>> Yes. Yeah.

Ocean adventurer and the first totally

blind sailor to cross the Pacific.

>> So, we should explain if you're

listening to this, Hiro is blind.

>> Yes, totally blind.

>> Totally blind.

>> see even light.

>> Right.

>> Yeah.

>> But maybe we can go But before we get to

your adventures, can you talk a little

bit about you know, how you became blind

because you weren't born blind. Can we

go through that because I think it'd be

very interesting for people to try and

understand

put to put themselves in your shoes, you

know what I mean? What happened to you

around 16, I believe, right?

>> When I was 13 years old, I started

losing my sight. I realized when I was

playing baseball. I liked baseball. I

wanted to be a baseball player. You

know, when I

I couldn't see hit the ball, should have

been home run. And

so teammate was asking me and laughing

at me. Are you trying to help other

team? And I realized, you know, I was

losing my sight, but I didn't want to

accept my blindness or losing my sight.

Then one day I fell down on the you

know, stairs and I scraped my knees and

I went back to home and my mom was

there. What happened? I didn't say noth-

I didn't say I fell down the stairs.

And because I didn't want to say I'm

losing my sight.

>> You were trying to hide it.

>> I tried to hide it. I didn't want to

accept it.

>> And then

at that point had it been diagnosed?

>> We visited the eye doctors, but they

didn't know the reason why I was losing

my sight. So that was, you know, four

years ago. So I I didn't want to go to

the eye doctor anymore, you know,

feeling.

>> And you were in despair. You You really

wanted to end your life.

>> Yes,

because I have who even I cannot do, you

know, to

brush my teeth by myself.

No worth.

So I wanted to end it all. So I tried to

commit suicide from jump off from the

bridge to the ocean. You know, that

field I liked the ocean when I was

sighted. So I would end up try to jump

in there.

>> Did you jump?

>> No, I couldn't jump because I tried to

put weight on my hands, but I couldn't

put my weight on the right foot. So I

couldn't jump off. So luckily and I

tried I was thinking I tried after

taking a nap. And I

Uh,

the nap, you know, I had a message from

my late uncle.

There is meaning. There is meaning in

your blindness.

You know,

through your challenges,

you will give courage and hope to

others.

But, I woke up. I didn't understand it,

you know.

Blind people cannot put the toothpaste

on the toothbrush. How I can

give courage and hope to sighted people.

>> This was a This was a dream you had as

you were napping? Were you on the bridge

at the time?

>> Right. Right. But, I woke up and I

thought, you know,

I don't understand that message, but one

thing,

I should not do this.

And I went home.

There might be something.

Then slowly but surely, I I started

challenging things and when I climbed

Mount Fuji, the highest mountain

Japan, you know, I realized the message

was true. At the summit, you know,

and my guide was explaining, "Wow,

sunrise. Well, we can I can see from the

you know, below, you know, and that's

unusual."

And I felt

and

warmness and someone came and "You

haven't You don't see and you came up to

here.

You have given us a courage."

>> So, you're

I know your story as a as a sailor, but

before you did that,

you actually were a mountaineer then.

>> Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Then after that, the yes, I can do more

and more, you know,

challenges and

when I sailed one time, you know, first

time, I realized

with wind, this sailboat can go very

far, you know. So, let's

let's try to sail across the Pacific,

the biggest ocean in the world. But, I

started having good dream. Yeah.

>> Well, I guess so you you you're living

in Japan, you grew up in Japan

right on the Pacific Ocean, and it just

seemed to you always

that's a massive challenge. Is that Is

that how it dawned on you? Just cuz it

was there?

>> I grew up in the the surrounded by

ocean. Always thinking, right? What's

beyond this ocean? So, let's try sail

across the Pacific. That's

the biggest challenge the sailing across

the Pacific from Japan to California,

right? I started thinking and I started

telling my dream. And I always tell in

this world once you started saying

the biggest or big dream, there are two

groups. One group called dream killer.

No, you cannot do that. You cannot see.

So,

stop it. Even stop thinking, right? The

other team I call dream supporter. Wow,

that's incredible challenge. Let's think

together how

you can do it.

>> And how how did you do it? What was your

first kind of big

of voyage?

>> Yeah.

And

after, you know,

I had a lot of good supporters and

I tried one time in 2013

with a newscaster, Mr. Shinbo.

And we tried for leaving from Fukushima

because I wanted to courage the kids

there because after that tsunami, they,

you know, have the resentment and the

hatred to the ocean because

tsunami wiped off their,

you know, parents or

beautiful, you know, cute sisters and

brothers. So, I wanted to

send a message ocean is still waiting

for you. Let's get out go out for

sailing to be friend with them.

So, I we left there and we send a

message and I did the charity so that I

could send a two sailboat small sailboat

to them and excellent when we left

beautiful weather

message we left six days after we left

there we had a collision with a wave.

7:00 in the morning

I heard three crashes.

Boom!

Boom! Boom!

After that sound I felt that was a

whale. That's you know instinct sixth

sense

because I'm blind I feel you know I have

different sense so

we had a big crack or damage so I was

listening carefully. There you go

something different

water coming in so I took the flow boat

out and the step my hand there. There

you go what I thought.

Water was coming in so I woke him and he

was asleep. So Simba boat is sinking.

And then he woke up and he started you

know putting life raft on while I was

picking up stuff I we should go bring in

into the life raft. So after that and

Simba

calm down. Yeah, I was telling that and

we transferred ourselves into life raft

with a emergency bag we prepared.

And the floating around

for 11 hours with a storms 5 meter

waves. Yeah, and

luckily we prepared up

emergency bag contained important thing

handy GPS and satellite phone. So

longitude latitude we are calling and

telling the

Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force and

that's why they couldn't find us.

>> And did the boat just sink right after

that?

>> sank and and

that was the airplane came seaplane came

and then making a circle circle circle.

First airplane couldn't land because

the ocean was too rough. They can land

in within 3 m and they went back because

they are running out of their fuel. But

Japanese the captain said in the evening

the sea might be calm down a little bit.

So, please send the second one. And they

Japanese government decided to send

second one making a circle circle

circle. They landed and then their

rubber boat came

to

and

because we are floating around. So, this

big ship cannot follow us. So, rubber

boat came and

picked up us and go back and they

left.

>> Were you Were you terrified?

>> I I was very very calm. Yeah.

>> Why do you think?

>> Because

you know, a night before the whale hit

our boat and

the sea sea was rough. So, more and

more, you know, tip sideways and

highest is

more than 5 m, you know, 15-ft waves.

So, I started worrying about the future.

As if this waves are break this

sailboat, what would happen? And then if

this

inflatable life raft wouldn't

play

automatically, what would happen? If

even inflated, how we can transfer

ourselves?

Can we do that?

Shaking and

teeth are starting making sound, right?

In the fear.

>> you'd already been thinking about this

the day before.

>> So, but you were calm when it actually

happened.

>> No,

after that, you know, my late uncle

sent a message again.

Are you saying arigato?

Thank you. To Ella's the server.

She's going through the storm to save

your life.

Say arigato. And I started saying

arigato arigato arigato, right? And

started living now. Instead of thinking

thinking future, right? That calmed

down. And next day even after whale hit

double, I was calm. That's why I'm

telling I was telling Shimbol, my

sailing partner, calm down even

in a he is in a panic, right?

>> Wow.

>> So, even in a life raft

I will be fine. You know, I was so

calmed down. Because

I I was living now. So, that message

helped me a lot. So,

>> Right. I mean, the message is useful

because panicking and being scared is

not going to help you, is it?

>> No, no. So,

be now.

>> Wow.

>> That

power word, you know.

>> That's quite a lesson.

>> You decide to do this crazy adventure in

the first place. A lot of people won't

choose to do that. Then you end up in

5-m waves, hit a whale,

a bobbing around in a rubber dinghy and

get saved. Most people think, "Yeah,

maybe I'll give up sailing." But you

decided to do this again. And this is

maybe where Doug comes into the story.

Doug, how how did you find out about

Hero's antics?

>> Well, a a mutual friend and I wasn't

really a sailor. I was the one sitting

on the deck enjoying a cold beer. Um

but, you know, I'd heard about from a

mutual friend that, you know,

of Hero and his story.

And I said, "Well, it'd be interesting

to meet him and talk." Cuz I was

interested maybe getting into sailing.

And I thought it'd be interesting to

hear his story.

And it wasn't my intention or

expectation going into our lunch

meeting. But basically after we had a a

lunch together after an hour, it

basically ended with me saying, "I can

see you can sail. Let let's give it a go

again." So.

>> Was that already, "Let's cross the

Pacific again?" Or was it something more

modest?

>> No, cross the Pacific because I, you

know, from the context of our

conversation, you know, he was saying,

"Hey, I want to

try challenge again."

And, you know, I thought, "Well, that

would be

you know, if he's willing after the

experience he's had

to try again, especially in the context

of trying to, you know, encourage others

and give hope to others, like, "Yeah, I

want I want to help facilitate that if I

can." So.

>> Yeah, so when I heard that message he

mentioned, "I have a sight, but no I

sailing experience. You have sailing

experience, but no sight.

If we can support each other, you know,

our dream can live again, you know?"

>> So it didn't bother you, Hero, that he

he wasn't a sailor?

>> Yeah, no, because I pick I knew he picks

up quick the sailing skills, you know? I

was asked by three other semi-pro

professional sailors or professional

sailors, "Let's do again."

But

when I heard the message from him,

that's it. I will do with him. You know.

>> Well, why why though? Why? I mean,

what what what is it about Doug?

>> It's more challenging one.

You know, you with

professional sailors, you might have him

just passenger, right? And not only

that, but also the spirit he had, right?

So

I will be you seeing eye Doug.

You know, that message, yeah. I'm seeing

eye Doug. I can I can you just a visual

thing.

You you should be captain and you should

decide that.

>> Yeah, but there was a big debate between

the people who knew who was the crazier,

him for going with a person who doesn't

know how to sail or me going with a

blind person.

But you know, the point was we knew

somehow from our lunch meeting

you know, there was a chemistry, right?

And if you're going to do something like

that

and risk your life

you know, the most important thing is to

go with the right person. And of course

I have the right boat and go at the

right time, but we just had that

chemistry, you know, that we knew

you know, kind of a mutual trust that if

things went bad

you know, we could work together and

>> Were you aware Doug of Hero

he's kind of I don't know if Hero you

would say it was a spiritual thing, but

twice now you've mentioned getting a

message from do you say your your late

uncle?

Did you talk to Doug about that?

>> I know I

>> No, no, no.

>> I mean, for me the motivation was that

you know, just again, you know, here he

is having had that experience and

wanting to challenge again and and me

just feeling yeah, that that should be

done. I mean, you know, he he hit a

whale. What what were the chances,

right? Being hit by lightning. And in

some ways I wanted to

after that experience the press was very

harsh and the public reaction in Japan

was very harsh, you know, what are you

guys crazy? You're blind? What are you

trying to do? Swim you know, you know,

sailing across the ocean. So I and part

of me wanted to help prove

him prove people wrong that he could do

it and last time was just

some very bad luck.

>> Just just for background and you're

you're telling me a bit American, a bit

British, right? But you've been living

in Japan for a long time.

>> Yeah, so

most of my work career for 30 years has

been in Japan, so I was been home for

more than 30 years.

>> Right. Okay, and so

how did this second attempt to cross the

Pacific go? Hero, you you you went the

other way this time. You went over to

California to try and sail home. Is that

right?

>> Right. Right. I live in San Diego now,

20 years. So, we decided to leave there

and try to land in Fukushima, the same

place. Because in my mind, it was very

painful. I tried to, you know, encourage

them

tsunami victims, especially kids, but we

left

and we had a collision with a whale.

I felt so painful. I gave them more

severe, you know,

trauma.

>> You felt you let them down.

>> Yeah, let them down.

So, I felt bad and so that's why I

couldn't go back to sailing even after

the we had a collision with a whale.

Yeah,

but this time this challenge came and

where to

land. And someone said, "Tokyo Olympic

a year later, so why don't you, you

know, land Enoshima? The sailing, you

know,

racing going on will be going on."

Good publicity.

You know, but I wanted to go back to

Fukushima so that I can encourage them

again. Yeah.

>> And how long did it take the

the journey?

>> It was

55 days. We were expecting, you know,

60 days to 75 days. So, we landed

a little bit earlier, but middle of the

you know traveling and selling you know

it was very very hard the ones first you

know seven days no wind people think you

know storm might be harder for sailors

but You know can you imagine 10,000

You know K kilometer I had

No wind today we didn't move and next

day hoping wind no wind still we haven't

gone

>> Well especially because our departure

out of San Diego Bay we had the most

beautiful wind ever

we didn't need to tack which is change

the sail to come out of the harbor and

people who wanted to like follow us out

couldn't even keep up so we started the

journey say oh well that we'll be in

Japan next week at this rate and then

the next day came and the the wind was

gone for [snorts] a week yeah

>> What's the hardest thing I'm going to

ask each of you this what's the hardest

thing about

Being on a boat for 55 days and and you

know all the difficulties that might

come with that I mean here what what for

you is there and is there anything

you've noticed about being blind that

makes it more difficult in some way

>> More difficult is you know

um

for being blind

>> Yeah I mean but just what what is I

would cuz I want to come to both of you

maybe have different perspectives on

what what did you find you said being a

place where there's no wind is very very

frustrating right

are there other things I'm thinking

you've got to think about food and water

and there's a maybe a bit of loneliness

or you've got to really get on with your

partner there's lots of challenges is

there one challenge that you remember

that was very difficult during that

journey

>> I was you know, not taking a shower.

I cannot take a shower, you know. I

wanted to. But, other than that, you

know, just trusting yourself, that keeps

motivated and trust the dog and those

are good, you know. And I started making

a image in my brain and the feeling with

five senses, you know. When I landed

the moving time will be waiting for you.

That's why I motivated myself that way.

So, everything is okay, you know. But,

yeah, a lot of challenges, of course.

And one time,

everything shut off.

Electricity and the autopilot stopped

working. And that time, you know,

a little bit concerned, but I'm fine.

I'm still alive. Again,

went back to that message, right? So,

calm down and calm him down and there

you go.

Everything is okay.

>> Doug, what was the hardest thing for

you?

>> I I mean, in some ways it it wasn't.

Some ways it was liberating. I mean, you

know,

we're on a boat and, you know, you

didn't have the constant ding ding ding

of your phone and a message coming in.

You know, everything you need was there

on the boat. Um someone asked me, it's

like, "Didn't you feel lonely um or

scared in the middle of ocean?" I think

both of us and no, we felt more

connected. And and our course took us

where, you know,

there was not a lot of boat traffic or

any traffic. I mean, the closest people

on Earth, they

weren't on Earth. They were probably in

space station

above. So, I think we both found it kind

of

liberating to

feeling to to be out there, to be

self-sufficient,

you know,

to be separated from the world and not

have the constant noise of news or your

your device thinging at you.

>> It sounds glorious. I want to do it now.

>> Yeah, and of course, you know, there

were times where you have big storms

and, you know, things happen, things

break, and they

need to get repaired, but that that was

expected, so it wasn't uh

>> So, step by step, right? When something

happens definitely on the sa- sailing

across the Pacific, but step by step how

to figure out?

And good time to

have a dialogue with yourself

and with uh universe.

Excellent, you know, and feeling why

this world has a war polarization or

uh clim- climate crisis, you know, in

this on the middle of the Pacific, I

feel this Earth is one thing, right?

>> Right.

>> Yeah, so feeling very well. So, instead

of those

uh

you know, difficult time, excellent

time, you know, I

what I re- remember the most, yeah.

>> That's you talked about the

space station maybe being closer to you

than

uh humans on Earth. You you you you seem

to have had an experience both of you

similar to what astronauts have when

they look down on Earth. And this

feeling of it's this precious place and

uh and and we forget about it all too

often, right?

>> And it felt like we were because we're

sailing in the trade winds, so you go

for a long time, the sun is rising

behind you in the morning, setting in

the afternoon, so you're continually

setting sailing into the sun.

And you get this feeling, it's like

well, you this could have been 10,000

years ago or 100,000 years ago or 10,000

years from now. You felt like you were

in some ways

stepping out of time, which was yeah, it

was a

>> So, after landing, you know, I was

shocked then

uh when I went to, you know, the big

stores and supermarket. Things are

everything and too much things in there.

How materialistic this world they

became, you know.

What we needed is what we put on our

year sailboat. That's it. 55 days. We

could gone 90 days, 100 days, you know.

So, this world uh you know, that

different way to see we had through the

sailing up with the Pacific, yeah.

>> Hero, you do motivational talks.

>> Yes, keynote speaker. I've been working

on that, yeah.

>> So, I mean what what others cuz it

strikes me you've had at least two

remarkable I well, already we've talked

about three remarkable experiences just

in the few minutes we've been talking.

You went blind as as a as a teenager and

it almost ended your life.

You tried to cross the Pacific Ocean.

The boat sank cuz it hit a whale and

then you did cross the Pacific Ocean.

And we're going to talk about your next

adventure in a moment, but I just

thinking when you're

I think you must have a lot of lessons.

Maybe both of you do. To people who are

listening to this are often listening

for advice for leaders, you know,

dealing with change. This is something

you've say you're expecting change on a

sailing boat, but dealing with

all those challenges. I mean what what

are some of those keynote pieces of

advice or wisdom that you share with

people?

>> I think courage

is not absence of fear.

It's your choice to move forward.

So, sometime people gets fear and they

stuck there on the uncertainty.

They

wait until they get all 100% information

they think. But nothing. How I can get

the 100% information about my sailing

across the Pacific 55 days ahead. I left

anyway. We prepared well

to

uh as much as possible. But after that,

you know, after your control, right?

Just let everything

uh ask the universe or other uh

supernatural thing, you know? That's uh

what you are seeing is not everything.

Seeing the unseen is a

skill I have and I have been coaching

that way, you know? And I want the

leaders have that

seeing the unseen skill and uh don't

stuck

when you get fear.

So, courage is not absence of fear.

It's your choice to move forward.

>> I had um the psychologist Adam Grant in

this booth. I don't know if you're uh

you're familiar with him. And he said he

had almost exactly the same piece of

advice. Um and he used to be a um a

springboard diver. And he was terrified

of heights and terrified of diving, but

it taught him to kind of get that

courage. And his advice to people is

don't be held back because you don't

know everything or you can't be

completely prepared. I think that's

that's what you're saying as well. Um

can I ask you then

you're going to leave Doug behind at the

next the next adventure? I think this

seems a

>> It doesn't mean he did bad thing to me,

okay?

>> It seems very cruel.

What is what is your plan for that?

>> Well, the the

I'm going to try by myself next year.

>> Next to

>> Completely alone.

I'm planning

to leave San Diego

middle of February because I want to

land Japan before typhoon season comes.

So, we are going to leave around

February 14th.

>> Maybe.

>> And that three-month uh or we land is

sometime in May. I'm going to use that

small boat. We use

a 40-ft boat with Doug, but by myself, I

need a smaller boat. So,

uh it takes longer. And the my challenge

is I'm going to use I decided to use the

same kind of boat we sank.

We had a collision. So, mentally,

uh yeah,

uh I have to

gain myself

>> Wow.

>> to have strength. Yeah. That's the

challenge.

>> think you you'll get kind of flashbacks

to that to that time being on a boat

that's that feels the same?

>> I I will, but that that's my challenge,

right? Yeah, I will be fine. I will be

fine, you know.

>> What is the What are the additional

challenges then to doing it on your own?

I mean, I could imagine

for a sighted person, it's very lonely.

You've got to rely on yourself.

>> Yeah.

>> But what were you using Doug and your

previous partner for

that you won't have now?

>> Uh I'm going to use nowadays, you know,

tech and technology helps me. The app

called Lina.

My daughter's name, actually. The Furuno

um

made just for me for this voyage. So, it

reads, you know, all data

from their system into iPhone and that

reads. So, I say

heading. It means, you know, it reads

that boat heading 230°.

It means, right? In direction. After I

leave the San Diego, I want to go uh

southwest there to get to the trade

winds. So, go uh through the, you know,

Hawaii. And uh I say,

uh

"Vina,

wind the speed true."

>> Right.

>> Yeah, like that. So,

>> version of

>> Right.

>> of a an app. Yeah.

>> So, and uh Starlink, you know, uh we put

the uh camera on and uh through

Starlink, the shore crew support us from

all over the world can be my supporters.

So, collective eyes. So, I want you to

join us. So,

>> We'll be able to follow you live there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And uh help me. So, please

uh visit heroes-choice.com

for my new challenge. So, you can follow

me and you can be my supporters. Yeah.

>> We definitely will.

>> Yeah.

>> [snorts]

>> Um and so, Doug, what's your answer to

that question? What what were the

lessons learned?

>> Uh

I think, you know, people said, "Well,

weren't you scared or weren't you

uncertain about arriving successfully?"

And we never had that concern. And And

part of it was, I think, you know, if

you go with the right person,

you know, with the right boat at the

right time,

you know, you know you're going to get

there. Things are going to break along

the way, the wind is going to change,

you know, things are going to be, you

know, not exactly as you expect. But,

you know, if you just,

you know, keep your eye on the goal,

keep moving forward,

um adjusting as you need to, you will

get to your goal. And we managed to do

that across the world's biggest ocean.

And people said, "Well, how was that

possible?" Again, you know, the the

lesson was, if you go with the right

person, prepared in the right way at the

right time,

uh you will succeed um even though

obviously you'll have challenges along

the way.

>> Because of him,

I will be uh I'm here, right? If I

uh hadn't met him,

I wouldn't be here. So, I'm very

appreciate uh Doug and all supporters

who helped me 2019 voyage, and I'm

looking forward to appreciate the

supporters, a lot of supporters now

already helping for my

voyage 2027. I'm here at choice, yeah.

>> Doug, what will you be doing while

Hero's out there on the waves?

>> I I'll be uh following uh along uh being

virtualized with him. And again, I'm

sure he will be successful because he'll

make the right preparations. And again,

I it'll be encouraging to everyone. And

just going back to last voyage, we

didn't want it just to be about sending

a message to people in Fukushima or

for Hero to prove it could be done. Uh

we also um

were raising money for some charities

like the Challenged Athletes Foundation

that's important to Hero, Cure Blindness

project, uh Carter Center um Trachoma

Center.

Um so, we wanted it as to use it as a

way to not only

prove what's possible and inspire

people, but also kind of support causes

that were important to us.

>> Yeah, so I'm not you know

doing this every single handed to prove

what I can do, but I want to expand what

we believe is possible as a humanity.

whole, you know, humanity as a whole,

yeah.

>> Hero Iwamoto and Doug Smith, thanks for

joining us on Meet the Leader.

>> [music]

>> We've been recording lots of great

interviews here in Davos both for Meet

the Leader and for Radio Davos. You can

find them wherever you get podcasts

[music] or at wef.ch/podcast.

I'm Robin Pomeroy at the World Economic

Forum. Thanks to you for listening and

watching. You can see this on our

YouTube channel

and goodbye for now.

>> [music]