I think this is really exciting, and

what I'm excited about is like I suspect

we'll be able to take our phones. The

phone will be motion tracked. You've got

the beauty of all the stuff that C dance

is capable of doing, and you're still

able to get the exact shot you want,

frame it exactly the way you want.

>> That's crazy.

>> The models are good enough. If you just

give them hands, they will do stuff.

Hence the name open claw and all this,

right? You and Dan Shipper, all you guys

have been like kind of talking about how

Codex built y'all are, so I tried it um

as like a general-purpose life operating

system, and it's been fantastic.

>> It's just so powerful. Today, I'm having

a conversation with Belal Muhammad

Sadou, a creator and founder who's on

the forefront of generative AI, spatial

computing, and 3D visual effects. And

for all the different parts of his

business, he uses AI agents. I asked him

why he switched from open claw to Codex.

We also talked about the differences he

sees in GPT 5.6 and Claude Fable, Claude

Code, and Codex's in-app browsers and

what makes them so powerful, how coding

agents create accurate visuals in 3D

animations. also talked about how he

vibe coded Palantir, got 2 million views

on a YouTube video, and is turning it

into a startup. Let's go.

Belal

Last time that we had a our hour-long I

think every few months we like to catch

up. We do an hour-long phone call. We

talk about AI tools, AI agents. We talk

about content creation, and basically

everything going on in in your business

and in my business. And in that phone

call, you told me that you were open

claw pilled, that you were using open

claw. If I remember correctly, and I

could be getting this wrong, so correct

me if I'm wrong, you had one Mac Mini or

MacBook Pro setup

>> Mhm.

>> and you were running multiple instances

of open claw on one computer, and you

used it through I think Telegram. And so

um I think you had

WhatsApp. You were using WhatsApp. And

you were messaging this AI agent. You

had all these different workflows set up

and we were just going off talking about

workflows. And so that was four or five

months ago.

>> Mhm.

>> And yesterday, or a few days ago, you

said, "Okay, you were right. I'm

completely codex-pilled now.

Uh just using the in-app browser is an

actual game-changer. Not having to deal

with the flakiness of Chrome

attachments." But then, to be fair, you

did go on to say, "But holy [ __ ] 5.6

soul is such a bad model for writing."

And so I think

I think all of this to say, over the

last 6 months, the agent setups that

we're all using are changing a lot. Can

you talk about your setup before and

then your agent setup now as a business

owner and content creator?

>> Absolutely.

I mean, Riley, like most people at the

start of the year, right? It was

everyone was playing around with this

thing called Open Claw. And as was I,

and it's funny because at that time I

was also courting Peter to come give a

TED Talk at TED 2026. So there's a fun

experience where I was like kind of

doing my homework, if you will, and I

was like I wasn't expecting it to like

it as much as I did. And quite frankly,

I think what the entire industry at that

point realized is like, "Hey, the models

are good enough. If you just give them

hands, they will do stuff." Hence the

name Open Claw and all this, right? And

so my setup, yeah, exactly, you nailed

it. I had a MacBook Pro, an old M1 Max,

64 gigs of unified memory. So still

pretty beefy. Threw a bunch of this

stuff on there and I wanted one place

where all my like meeting transcripts

would go into. It would automatically go

look at my YouTube analytics and

basically create like, you know, like a

digest of how all my social platforms

are doing and put it all in one place.

Now, there's no reason I couldn't have

done that previously, but the fact that

I could just the fact that there was

that router to like be able to message

it from WhatsApp meant that when I was

on those like, you know, hour-long calls

or like walking around in Austin, I

could start doing things that were

useful on a computer itself. So, I

probably had like a I would say at in

retrospect an over-engineered setup. I

had like six different agents. I had

like based some of them around like

different like personas of TV show

characters that I liked. My my coding

agent was like Carmack after the

legendary John Carmack. I had a

strategist that was based after Carter

the Stargate SG1 character. I had like a

spiritual advisor that would read my

stuff and tell me like was I in flow

like or was I not in flow today? What

could I do better tomorrow? And kind of

like, you know,

dare I say a Deepak Chopra

type character. And it was so fun to

basically embody these characters

themselves. Like, "Hey, go to 11 Labs.

Like, find this voice. Like, train it.

Cool." Suddenly, it can like send me

voice notes. And yeah, that's my setup

then and now. Like you and Dan Shipper,

all you guys have been like kind of

talking about how Codex built y'all are.

So, I tried it. Um as like a general

purpose life operating system. And it's

been fantastic. So, I've connected it to

absolutely everything. I love the fact

that I can like remotely control

sessions from the ChatGPT app itself.

Like, I don't have to worry about

setting up tunneling or anything else.

And it's just great. I still use, I

would say, Claude for a lot of my coding

tasks. I still use Codex, too.

Um but for the daily driver for

knowledge work, if you will, right now

it's just like Codex on a MacBook Pro.

>> There's so many things that I want to

ask you. I think firstly, yeah, I think

so many people got really excited, maybe

too excited about Open Claw. And that's

when people tried to really

over-engineer their Open Claw setup. And

that's why you got a There was a ton of

content being created. You need to

create this second brain and connect it

to Obsidian so you have all these ideas

meshing together.

>> And a dashboard to control it. And

people are spending more time building

the dashboard than doing stuff.

>> All of their time on the dashboard. Like

that was what people were doing is is

they were just like stopped working and

they started working on their open claw.

I think ultimately it comes down to

people are really excited about

something almost like Jarvis, right?

An a an agent with its own personality

that you can talk to that can help you

get things done, but ultimately a lot of

people enjoy technology and it's really

fun. And so I think what Anthropic is

doing, what Open AI is doing, and I

think what Cursor's going to end up

doing and what Google will end up doing

as well is they're trying to take all of

the things that Open Claw did well,

right? Which is basically fully

controlling and connecting with the

user's life and making it easily

accessible.

>> That's right.

>> And I think the first company to

actually do that well was Open AI when

they released Codex. And it was kind of

the first AI-powered super app, this AI

agent tool that you can go to and it can

basically just do everything that you

would want to do as a normal knowledge

worker. And then what they did is they

combined ChatGPT and the Codex app into

the new ChatGPT app and they've since it

to GPT work, which is a whole separate

side story. But what I think is

incredibly interesting is I think they

nailed kind of the big four things that

I think are super useful. It's like

obviously they have an a frontier agent

that you can talk to. It can connect to

all of your existing tools, right?

Through plugins. You can set up

automations, right? Which is like the

cron jobs from

>> Mhm.

>> from

>> Open Claw.

>> Yep.

>> And then also this in-app browser, which

you recently said that you have been

using the browser a lot because it's

signed in to all of your existing tools

that you were using on your browser like

Google Chrome.

Okay. So what I want to ask you is like

why do you really like the browser? How

have you been using it?

>> I mean, it's just a little more

convenient. I was initially skeptical,

right? Like I saw your video where

you're talking about like this is the

future. And people are going to make

apps that are intended to be nested

inside of this type of a harness, right?

I was like, all right, this is just this

is Chromium. Like, what are we talking?

Is it like is can it can it just be like

that big of a game changer?" And the

fact is like, especially when I'm on my

laptop, right? Like, it's hard to

multitask or whatever. If I'm in that

context and I have a chat window, I can

say stuff and it does things in the

browser, it's amazing. Okay, I'm setting

up an AV test for YouTube. I want it I

want this thing to like periodically go

up and just see like how is the CTR

doing? How's the test progressing? Do we

need to swap out any of the thumbnails

and so forth? This was just like

annoying manual process that I had to

deal with. Now it's just freaking like I

just say the thing, right? And it's like

I I could even be on my phone, I just

say the thing and it works on my

computer predictably. I know it's going

to work. There's going to be no issues

like taking over my Chrome browser,

anything like that. And then the part

that it starts I feel like the companies

haven't really focused on this yet is

but it the browser sort of becomes a

shared canvas for human and machine

collaboration, right? Like, um you know,

I used to work at Google, so I'm still

like stuck on Google Docs. Like, I can't

for the life of me get into Notion. And

the fact that I can go into Docs and

like this is the way I do my writing

right now with the with Code access cuz

it sucks at like actual prose is I'll

put in detailed comments. It'll go read

the comments and tell me a suggestion

for how to fix it and then I implement

the fix myself. And I get the fact that

I can just do that very easily in one

place is just super nice. And so

I I could see this being far more useful

where like, you know, a bunch of the

mapping-related stuff that I do too is

like if I want to visualize something on

the map, it's really convenient to have

my web app pulled in the browser and be

like, "Hey, go search up this

information, convert it into GeoJSON,

and then just visualize it there." And I

can do that all in one context without

needing to change stuff. Like, I think

that's really the power, right?

>> 100% and I think what you described I

think you you described it as kind of

this um it's almost like a shared

canvas. And so that's right. I I want to

make this tangible here. So, this is how

I prepared for the conversation here. I

said, "Based on the conversation on text

with Balaji Sedo." And I said, "Look

through his chat or the text and

recommend what I should ask him." And

then it basically just had your little

quotes in here. And then I just said,

"Please add this in the Notion doc at

the top and describe who he is, what he

does, just in case that's for the

intro." And I can very easily just hit

open in browser. And so now I have

Notion open inside Codex. Any app that I

think will survive the agent era will

make sure that their app can be used

alongside agents.

Notion is very ahead on this. They're

actually far way further ahead than

Google in terms of their Google Docs and

making it controllable via API. Anything

I could do inside this Notion doc, like

please highlight the important things

and like make the text blue in this

document. Um anything that you think is

important that I should include inside

the Notion doc, just make changes via

the API in this doc and then add a

section at the end, but use the tabs

functionality instead of bullets. And so

I can just work alongside this document.

>> the CLI or MCP to to do all these things

basically? Okay, cool.

>> There's a Notion plugin. And so that's I

think where we're

You know, a lot of people argue about

CLI and MCP and I think I don't think

it's It's not going to matter at all for

knowledge workers. You don't even need

to understand how it works. You're just

going to use the plugin and it's up to

Notion to decide what the best

>> Sure.

>> way to do it is from a technical

perspective. But the point is I can ask

the agent to do anything and it will

update it here.

>> That's nice.

>> And

this is still like a little bit slow. I

don't I don't know if you notice this,

but OpenAI is releasing their models on

the Cerebrus chips or their technology

that will make it significantly faster.

And so I think this process at like 5x

to 10x the speed is going to be just

borderline Jarvis. I don't know what you

think about that.

>> Instant. I couldn't agree more. I mean

like yeah, basically what you're

describing you know, I I just don't use

notions. All the other stuff is great. I

mean one question I have is I can't wait

for everyone keeps talking about model

routing, right? And it's like surely

these like proprietary harnesses have

collected enough like traces of people

doing stuff that they know which model

to route which task to, right? Like if

you're just highlighting a bunch of

stuff, shouldn't it just like I wish

there was a good like

I believe Chat GPT had an auto mode,

right? When the new like like maybe five

or six months ago where it would try to

route stuff and it was really terrible.

So people would always max it out to the

most the strongest model possible, but

like I would love for this thing to just

auto default to Terra and just go zip

and do some of these kind of like inline

changes, but when it really needs to use

a giga brain to think about stuff like

to handle that. That'll make a huge

difference in the latency as well, I

think.

>> Yeah, 100% and I think if you were to go

to it and on the non-paid plan I think

the free plan has something called GPT

Instant and it's much faster and I think

they do some routing in that. I could be

wrong, but I think I think that's kind

of next cuz look like we've been waiting

for like 60 seconds and oh, so it is.

It's actively highlighting it right

>> Yeah, so there you go. That's cool.

Yeah.

>> And and so like I just think this needs

I mean yeah, it's it's pretty cool

actually and it should add something at

the bottom here.

But there you go. It kind of like

highlighted the keywords and then here

you go. We have

must ask follow-ups and clip targets.

Okay, so I digress on this. So obviously

you've been crushing it on YouTube

recently and I think just the volume of

high quality videos that you're putting

out recently have have just like

skyrocketed. I'm curious how are you

using agents for content creation?

>> Man, I think I'm using it on every part

of the stack. Um

I mean so like there are two kinds of

videos I basically make on YouTube. I

call them like there's like the mad

science experiments where I'm like doing

a bunch of vibe coding and like building

a crazy prototype and then I go out and

showcase it. And the other type is

basically like I call it a frontier map,

you know, kind of my channel's all about

like mapping the frontier of creation

and computing. Like what are the

emerging technologies that, you know,

connect the world of bits and atoms, the

physical and the digital world, and are

going to be very consequential for us

and have like very dual-use

capabilities. So these are more like I

would say scripted video essay formats,

like 10 to 15, sometimes 20 minutes in

length. So they have a they have a

slightly different

um you know, kind of post-production and

insert pre- to post-production process.

But agents across the way, I mean like

like most folks, I'm using it absolutely

for like coding the damn thing, all

right, like duh. But I also find it very

useful when I'm trying to do the

explainers. So I did a video recently

called Iron Sights. So this is basically

like using a bunch of computer vision

models and the Meta Ray-Ban glasses and

and phones to be like, "Hey, how can we

like 3D track like both camera

perspectives, fuse them together, and

create essentially a spatial shot

counter?" So it like measures every hit

or miss. And this is like a a really

complicated offline pipeline. And then

when I was trying to come up with

diagrams to explain to folks how we do

this, I just did it in the same codebase

with Claude Code in this case. And I was

like, "Hey, I want to illustrate this

point about how do we take like

detections in 2D space and project them

into 3D space?" And the fact that it had

context of like the code that actually,

you know, wrote, co-wrote, or whatever

the right way to say this is to make the

damn thing, made it so much easier to

create like compelling visuals to

explain the thing. Like I think if you

forward ahead a little bit, I'll show

you some of the workflow stuff. By the

way, that's where it was like a a

[ __ ] year ago and now it's just like

>> Yeah.

>> It's a

>> Wait, am I getting closer?

>> Yeah, yeah, there you go. You you can

kind of see it.

>> Yeah, so like stuff like this, right? It

makes it so much easier for me to just

like hey, like make the diagram for me,

make it super easy for folks to explain.

I wanted to explain the projection map.

There's another clip that'll will in

there that does that, too. So this idea

of like the context of where where you

build the thing can also help you curate

and show the thing is like just really

really powerful and I find myself using

that a ton. If you go to my most recent

video as well that I I just posted a

couple days ago. So, this is this is a

similar one where like I'm trying to

explain uh these kind of complicated

topics, right? I was like, well, I I

want to explain like what does it mean

for, you know, 5 GHz versus 60 GHz and

you know, kind of creating visuals like

this is super easy to do, but you can

create an interactive visualization,

too, right? Like and scrub through it

and show folks how exactly does that

work. So, like I love using uh these

coding models to create these kind of I

don't even know what to call them like

infographic visuals, like whatever the

heck you want to call them with 3.js and

so forth. It's just it's super super

powerful. So, here's a great example

like, you know, people keep you know,

people don't necessarily I just hit play

keep let let it go.

Yeah, people don't necessarily

necessarily remember their physics

class. So, just be able to create an

actual visualization of like what do the

waves look like? What does it look like

when it's high frequency versus low

frequency? Just makes it so much easier

for folks to understand. And like that's

something you can't really do with like

all the video generation models out

there cuz it's going to be like

completely inaccurate or just a very

like stylized representation. So, I love

love love using 3.js and coding models

as B-roll uh to generate B-roll for my

videos.

>> And it it 100% makes sense for your

style of content. I mean, you talk about

3D mapping and these these are you know,

it requires a physics engine. All right,

I don't know if I'm saying that

correctly, but like it it's a physics

engine or whatever. Yeah. Like a game

engine physics engine so that you can

actually understand like waves. Where if

you tried to run this through C dance

2.5 or whatever the new one that came

out, it might look really cool, but it's

not going to be to scale or it it's not

going to accurately represent your idea.

My videos, it's not as scientific,

right? I I I have a a very specific

workflow where if I'm doing an explainer

video and it's like the 14 things that

you need to understand like an AI will

generate all of those transition screens

for me and it's like a very clean

animation. It's directly on brand, you

know, and that's why things like

remotion and hyperframes which I don't

know if you've used these are more 2D

stuff, but we're also reaching a point

with AI where it's it's understanding of

3D is getting significantly better. If

you go to Andrej Karpathy's latest

tweet.

>> Oh, yeah. I saw that.

>> We've kind of left the era of the

pelican riding a bike and I think it's

really interesting that he's like we're

starting to leave the territory where

you test an LLM by creating an SVG of a

pelican on a bicycle. And so he

basically put in

he put in the I'm not going to play the

audio, but there's also audio playing at

the same time here which

is like 11 labs and other people have

been posting it where it uses 11 labs

for music as well. So it'll literally

create a 3D world using 3js and it will

have the transcript playing in the

background and so now that's how we're

measuring models. You give it $10

create the first scene of the Hobbit and

you remember in 20

you know, 2023

the first time the spaghetti test came

out with Will Smith. Remember it was

like all messed up. His arm was going

through his body. It looked horrible and

now if you ask for Will Smith eating

spaghetti test, it will be an exact

replica of Will Smith eating spaghetti

and you will have to squint to see the

difference. And so this is a question to

you. Do you think in the next 2 years

when you use the same prompt, do you

think it'll almost look like a movie

where it'll literally be able to use

like a game engine to create a not just

a video like seedance would, but a 3D

representation that might actually be

like a really good movie.

>> Oof. Man, I mean I've been trying them

all my I've been trying a bunch of these

tests, right? Like I So, I'm using foul

and trying to come up with a harness

that can do 5 to 10 minute narrative

content. That's sort of the bar that I'm

trying to set. That has like the

narration element to it. It comes up

with like really nice aerial B-roll

selections and puts it together. And

it's pretty compelling. I think it's

like sort of reached the point where

it's like sort of like low-end like

docu-style content it certainly can do.

Is it going to be like something that

just like blows our socks off?

Dude, I I mean, I I think it's going to

come down to like the the quality of the

story that you're telling. And this is

why what I find interesting is like

again, these models are so good at the

execution bits, but in terms of coming

with prose that's like fun to listen to.

I mean, it's just like I think that's

where the human element comes in. So,

will like an individual make like

feature-length content that's like

really compelling to watch 100%? Will it

autonomously do so from a prompt that

isn't like just over fitting to like a

you know, handful of scenarios that like

the developers like trained on?

Yeah, like I don't know I don't know

about that. But dude, I mean like

when you look at that convergence of

like the sort of explicit 3D and the

game engine approach, I'm very excited

about this convergence of sort of like

explicit 3D representations and sort of

like more implicit like kind of like

just video generation. Whether it's auto

regressive kind of like Genie or or

otherwise, right? It's like

this is cool to me cuz it's like you can

take real-world imagery, then put

characters in it and like still have

that interactivity that you would expect

from a game engine, but of course,

you're controlling this auto regressive

like

real-time video generator that's just

generating the next frame for you. I

think this is really exciting. And what

I'm excited about is like I suspect

we'll be able to take our phones. The

phone will be motion tracked, and you'll

be able to basically just like, you

know, got you basically direct your

talent on the set. You're like freaking

James Cameron in a basement. You've got

the beauty of like a full like all the

stuff that C dance is capable of doing

and you're still able to get the exact

shot you want frame it exactly the way

you want. That's what I'm super excited

about and like

look I you're totally right like I when

I one of the first in terms of like the

prompts I love to try is like I love to

try doing this sort of like omniscient

city prompt with all the video models.

And I've got my one from like Claude

like a year ago.

It's pretty good but this one I mean

like the ability to zero shot and one

shot things has just gotten drastically

drastically better. So like already you

can take something like this and then

throw it into a diffusion model and

reskin it. So this is sort of like your

wireframe and storyboard and you can do

some very very compelling things that

way. So I'm I'm super excited about all

of this stuff.

>> Do you have the the the video that you

posted? I re I reposted it and got a

million views on my repost. I think I

said OMG what? And it was the video in

Austin. You took an image and you drew a

path of a drone shot. Was that you?

Yeah, that's the one.

>> It Could you find that?

>> Yes, yes, yes. I inadvertently ended up

starting a freaking trend. So it started

off This was This is the origin story is

like I had this like 3D reconstruction

of the Lodi Gardens in New Delhi and I

was curious to see like if I just gave

the model this image, right? And this

actual trajectory I took could the model

approximate that first-person

perspective down the path?

And it did a really good job. Like I was

kind of shocked. So then after that I

was like uh what if I just take an Earth

screenshot draw like a convoluted path

down it and they put some detail into

it, right here let me mute this.

>> So just to get this straight. So you

took you took a Google Earth shot. So

that's the bottom one is an image. The

bottom one is an image and then you

basically drew a line over the image and

then gave the new image which was just

the image plus the line, to a video

model. Which video model?

>> Omni. And so like Omni and Seedance is

really good at this, too. It's funny

like

Omni is like supposed to be omnimodal,

right? Like uh Gemini and Google are

super pilled on like multimodal in and

out, right? So

it's trained on a bunch of these

modalities and it's very good at

reasoning about like these kind of

nuanced spatial details. I would say

even I don't use Gemini for much, but

when I have to do spatial reasoning

tasks, I still end up going to the

Gemini class of models. So Omni

basically, yeah, you scribble this thing

on and then you say, "Hey, please like

imagine the first-person perspective

traversing the draw line that I just

drew." And like you end up getting

something like this and since it's Omni,

you can do conversational video editing.

You just tell it in the next pass to

remove the red line. And what I was

impressed with, I mean like used to live

in Austin, like it's it's not a, you

know, I I call it it's a plausible

reconstruction of Austin. It's not a

factual one. It's not doing like

retrieval augmented generation where

it's like pulling in the next right

image, but holy [ __ ] off of one image,

it's doing this. It's like

>> So you can see you can see the apartment

that I lived at in Austin from this

image. And

and yeah, and I I you know, it's like

I've walked I walked that loop uh

probably three times four three four

times a week and it is, like you said,

plausible. It's not exact because it

probably doesn't have enough data for

that, but I think if you were to give it

more images, maybe if you can do that. I

I think you can give it a bunch of

images, right? Um

>> You can. It still doesn't There's a I

I'd I'd be happy to talk about this like

is like there's there's a way to do like

spatial rag that would make it perfect.

>> Um all right, let's

What do you mean by this? What is rag?

>> So like before we get to spatial rag, I

mean like this thing escalated so crazy,

right? People started making stuff like

this. And these kind of videos blew up,

right? Like this is Ilaris is using

Seedance in this case. So you can use

these other models as well. But everyone

fixated on the broom being the other

way, You know, everyone's like, "Oh my

god, but the broom's the other way."

Like it's like

hold up. We can now exert fine-grain

control over generations, which was the

problem everyone complained about. So

like, of course somebody's going to

build a nice tool and harness around

this. And and and a lot of companies

are. So, back to spatial rag. There's

this really cool paper called Soul World

Model. See, the idea is like, okay, you

have Street View panos, right, for a

city or whatever, or equivalent

panoramic imagery, Apple, whoever.

What you can do is basically as you're

going along, let me find the right

visual here. Um this is the perfect one.

So if you look at that, you're basically

as you're going along, you just load in

the next nearest pano

and use that to condition the

generation. And if you do that, you can

have very long trajectories going

through an entire city and it'll stay

pretty faithful. And then of course,

what you can do is like, you know,

reskin reality on demand. Like throw a

freaking, you know, Godzilla in there.

Like change the weather and time of day.

Do whatever the hell it is that you want

to do. And this is using like an

open-source model. If you use some of

these proprietary models, I guarantee

you Google has to do this. If they if

they do I've like feature requested this

a gazillion times. But like, this is I

think the future of like if you want to

create generations that are anchored in

the real world, you'll go and do that

capture itself and then they'll you use

a technique like spatial rag to just

condition it. So, the the camera just

needs some sense of where in 3D space is

it is so that it knows which pano or

image to load in.

>> I see. So this is a clear way for Google

to just take all of the data that they

have with Google Earth and turn it into

a giant video game {slash} movie

simulator. I don't even know what you

would call it.

>> Dare I call it the Dare we call it the

Holodeck? You know, I feel like Robert

Zemeckis going to pop out if we say the

Holodeck. [laughter]

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. That is

really crazy. My [clears throat] first

thought is yeah, I mean I think a lot of

companies are going to use this for

advertising. You know, I I think I've

already seen some companies do it in a

way that people can't even detect that

it is AI.

Um, have you

>> Have you seen any companies use this

technology for advertising yet or is it

super new?

>> they they all are and it's like I don't

know how many of them are like actually

like, you know, kind of openly talking

about it, right? Like I think the place

where I see AI gen content the most is

like UGC. Like I don't know if you agree

with me or not. That's where it's like

overt almost.

And I don't know

>> That's where it's offensive. It's almost

offensive with when you notice it in a

UGC. You're like, ah, come on. What are

we doing here?

>> That's true and it's like unfortunately

whenever people try to do like the Do

you remember the Coca-Cola Christmas

commercial that Coca-Cola did? It just

gets roasted like so badly that I'm like

I don't know if people are going to be

like overt about when whenever they use

it and it's like

Yeah, at least that's what I've noticed.

When I go to these like VFX conferences

like FMX, everyone's like online it

seems like nobody's using this stuff.

And then you go to these conferences and

people are like, yeah, we're totally

using it. Just legal told us we can't

talk about it. It's like, okay, great.

>> [laughter]

>> I also don't think it's like fully there

for final pixels just yet, you know?

It's like um, it certainly can be for a

lot of places. Like so personally what

I've been enjoying doing is if I

go over here is like for narrative

experiences like this, I've really

enjoyed creating uh, AI gen B-roll. So

this is all VO uh, for the opening

sequence. If I'm doing like a cold open

about recreating like something that

happened for like that I read a book on

or something, it's so much fun to be

able to just like make these kind of

experiences. Like and this is stuff that

like no YouTuber would have had the time

to go do this otherwise, right? And it's

like a way to pull people into the story

and like talk about like what happened

and like what the technology was and

kind of anchor them in that like time

and era and it again, may not be like

factual one-to-one, but it's a pretty

damn good plausible like reconstruction

or retelling of uh you know certain

events and kind of technologies.

>> 100% with both video generation and

things like remotion hyperframes and

those like graphics is is it's a tool of

storytelling and I think the best way to

do it is as B-roll. Like as you say

something, you can get the right imagery

to pop up at the same time, which is

basically what a movie is or any type of

visual storytelling.

>> Um

and you're right, you know, 10 years ago

there were YouTubers creating these like

motion graphics

had really high-quality B-roll, but it

was YouTubers who had a massive business

and they were able to invest a $10,000

for a video. I know a lot of YouTubers

who are spending 10 10 20 up to 100k per

video because and then you have to know

that you're going to get an ROI on it.

Well, now anybody can create a video

like that um which which is raising the

bar for the VFX YouTubers. I have

noticed that even the high I think um

Abrams Cleo Abrams

uh she's great like she has amazing

motion graphics and they have like a

full team many people working on it and

so I think we're seeing the bar raised

in terms of like the quality on YouTube,

which is really fun to see.

>> Man, and it's a funny story like when

when you and I probably first met in

Austin probably circa

2023 or 2024 or something at 1618, I

think or

>> That's the Asian restaurant

>> you're like going to, right? There's one

near downtown.

>> 1618

Asian Fusion. Yes, yes, I remember.

>> Yeah, and

yeah, like I think a lot of people may

not know this, but like

it kind of the way the way I got my

start was like basically making

short-form TikTok videos.

And like I you know, this is like what I

used to do for many many years.

>> And you were doing this while you were

at Google, right?

>> Yeah, yeah, this was like my I was a

product manager at Google and I didn't

want to lose touch with the skill. So,

it's like, "Oh, I want to like something

that I can tackle over the weekend." I

used to love After Effects, 3ds Max,

Maya, using AR VR tools. I used to love

making all these like spooky monsters,

aliens, robot type videos. And like some

of them did really, really crazy well,

right? Like but

ever since like video models came out,

you can see literally as video models

get better, my desire to like make these

short-form pieces just goes down. And

instead I've been taking that like

superpowered new found superpowers,

whatever you want to call it, to instead

make long-form content that was super

challenging and is getting easier. But

I've got a question for you. Like the

the hardest challenge I have, like I

mentioned, you know, I've got these two

kinds of videos. One is like the mad

science experiments. That's easy. I just

go I can just riff. I'm on a green

screen screen sharing. For the scripted

content, like one of the issues I run

into is like working with my video

editors, right? Like if I do a take like

three different ways of the same thing.

Like I'm stuck in like frame IO hell of

like telling the editors, "No, no, no. I

said the same thing I just tried to say

it slightly differently here." Have you

found something that can do like really

good like sort of timeline-based edits,

not just based crudely on the

transcript, but like actually does good

edits? Like I've tried Descript, I've

tried the Remotion stuff, I've tried a

bunch of the YC apps and like nothing

has helped me go from like a 40-minute

video with a with an outline or a script

I provided to like a 15-minute cut down.

Like kind of um do do do do you have a

workflow for stuff like that?

>> So, right now I use Descript. And I use

Descript strictly I I use Descript for

cutting, but you like you said, it's

mostly for my green screen style content

because once we have the final one, it's

very easy to just remove parts of the

video. It's once you get to having

multiple layers on top of each other and

trying to remove chunks, like it gets

super messy. And I think this is one of

the biggest problems right now in the

whole like video creation pipeline,

especially with massive files because

it's like hard to move things around.

Like, if you have B-roll files that

amount to 100 GB, and you have these

like super

uh I guess complex timelines. This is

tough, and I've talked to 10 to 15 plus

really good creators. They have not

found a solution. There are a lot of

companies claiming to be trying this,

but a lot of those companies coming out

of YC are people who don't do

video editing. You know, a lot of these

startups are created by people who like

think it's a good idea, but they don't

know the true pain of like a creative

and how like they have a very specific

way they want to they want to create

something really high quality, and

usually it just ends up being like

there's no color grading, it just throws

things on the screen when you say stuff,

and it's it's kind of like um a

hodgepodge right now. I No one's created

a good AI video editing workflow. And

so, the way that I do it is like you

said, I use Frame.io and Descript, and I

just do a lot of comments, and there's a

lot of back and forth with my human

video editor.

>> So, for episodes like this that I

imagine are anywhere from like 1 to 3

hours of tape you end up with, how do

you What's the process for you to

whittle those down to like what makes it

into the final cut? Like, do you do a a

pass manually yourself? Like, does your

editor kind of have intuition for those

type of things? How does that work?

>> In my Notion, I have documentation, and

there are like things that they should

look out for. So, they read it every

time they edit the video. They say,

"Remove those things." And they just do

a first pass, which is like remove the

time where blah blah blah he's pulling

up something on his screen share, it

takes a little bit longer, cut that

down. But,

what I'm trying to do and is I'm trying

to reduce the complexity of video

editing in my videos. And like I told

you before this, like I'm genuinely

trying to just create fun conversations

and remove a lot of that. And then, at

the end of the video, I'll have Fable

analyze the transcript, and it'll say,

"Hey, look for areas where we could add

visuals and I think maybe three or four

times throughout this episode when

you're describing something, there will

be a full screen graphic overlay over

it, especially in the first 10 minutes.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh I think it's really important to

captivate Yeah, it's really important to

captivate them to captivate the audience

to know that like you're serious about

this video, right? Like oh, he's taking

the time to make his ideas more clear.

I'm going to continue watching this and

kind of in the back half of the video

they've emotionally they're they're in

it. Right now, I guess right now in the

video we're probably 30 minutes into the

final cut right now. If you're with us

right now, you're you're probably

>> The true G's.

>> interested in something. You're the true

G's. You're You're You're You're stuck

around for us. So, I don't think it's

super important. I think people would

rather you get it out quicker than spend

an extra few days, you know, adding

B-roll throughout the entire video.

>> Yeah, yeah. I have for conversational

stuff it needs to be it needs to be and

there there is a very much an unediting

trend that you're seeing happening on

YouTube, too, right? Where it's like

like I I keep seeing that this like a

grandpa who's like smoking a cigar like

in in the in the field and there is a

whole [ __ ] maxing movement that's

happening, too. Like it's kind of

people don't want the Mr. Beast over

retention editing ding ding ding ding

ding like third 30 things to capture

attention. There is like a sweet spot

which is why I've actually really

enjoyed long-form content cuz it's fun

to see and and though I will say this is

where Codec going back to Codec is so

cool. I am learning things about YouTube

analytics that I have would have never

learned otherwise. It's it's crazy how

much they actually expose like in terms

of figuring out how your content's in

the the retention curves are so useful

and just to be able to see AVD like

Yeah, but there's so much stuff that you

can go into

like completion rates and all this crazy

stuff that like is

it's like I I'm just usually like hey,

go you I've made a skill that's like the

best of Colin and Samir and Patty

Galloway and Daryl Eves kind of

mushed into one and it's it's glorious.

>> You brought up connecting Codec or any

agent to YouTube analytics. So, YouTube

has an API. It's kind of annoying to set

up. I don't know does Codex have an

official integration yet or do you have

to like set up the API?

>> I don't know, but I went through the

pain of turning on the things in cloud

and yeah, I I had to go through the

whole process. Yeah.

>> Yeah, I hope you weren't the guy who

made it so complex at Google. Um, but

basically all of the data that YouTubers

can see,

um, all of the data that YouTubers can

see like your retention curves, the

click-through rates for every single one

of your videos, you could just give that

access to Codex. And I think before this

video you said something you said

something that like you're like AB test

it. I don't even want to see it. Like

it's so it's so nice to not have to

click through toggles. I think that is

kind of

>> Yeah.

>> one of my it seems boring, but like one

of my biggest dreams of of AI or at

least my the ideal way of me

using a computer is never going to an

app again. I just want to talk to my my

chatbot. It can go off and do all of

that stuff. Be like, "Okay, I want you

to analyze the last video. How can we

make it better? What was the retention?

What was this?" And it just shows up.

And if you want that to happen again,

you just set an automation. You're like,

"Okay, every time I get on my computer

or every morning at 9:00 a.m. create a

report for any new YouTube videos that

get created."

>> Yeah.

>> And it shows you that data in the exact

way that you want it. And I think that's

kind of

it's just so powerful.

>> Well, it's funny you mentioned Fable,

right? It's like it's funny I'm I treat

Fable the same way. Like when I want

like the, you know, the artistic

high-quality decisions, I'm like, "Okay,

this is a this is a Fable task." When

I'm like, "Okay, this is a

well-understood thing or I want some

somebody to go find the nitty-gritties."

I'm like, "Codex." And it it really has

started to to your point about being

agent native in the show itself. It's

like it feels like they're members of

the team. It really does feel like that.

And so, I had this experience where

like, you know, it's like it's it feels

like I'm texting a producer basically.

To your point about thumbnails, like if

if folks aren't like active YouTube

creators, one of the worst things that

happens as a creator is you go upload

your video and YouTube greets you with a

glorious one X out of 10 ranking right

as the video goes up. And it's comparing

your video performance to the last 10

videos you've uploaded, you know,

basically minute by minute, hour by

hour. And it is the ultimate slot

machine, like in the in the sense that

like if you get a one on 10, you get

these little fireworks and you're

feeling like a champ. And if not, you're

sitting there feverishly going back

every half an hour refreshing to see how

it's doing. And now that I have Codex

driving this part, to your point about

AB test, I'm not tempted to do that

anymore. I'm like, how's it going? Okay,

this is what it looks like. Decision

made. I don't want to touch it, see it,

and accidentally get sucked down the

rabbit hole of this like, you know,

immaculately designed dashboard.

>> I think that is This is something I've

been talking about since 2023

about kind of my dream with Siri. I've

been talking about this for a long time.

You know, so much of tech is dark

patterns. You know, just Instagram,

every single social media platform is an

algorithm that wants you on their app.

And I think I think the only way to

really counteract that algorithm is to

create a completely new operating system

that has your own algorithm that's made

for you. You know, and so like that's

kind of what you're describing. It's an

algorithm

or or this kind of layer of all this

data that you want. Like you want to be

able to go on Instagram to find

something without getting distracted for

an hour. You want to be able to use your

computer

in a way that's like very human-centric.

And I think the way that this is going

to be solved is through an AI chatbot

that you can trust. And that's why I

never trust a free chatbot because a

free chatbot is always going to be

incentivized to keep you talking to the

chatbot for as long as possible. They

need to find other ways to

um other ways to uh monetize. And so,

what you want is an AI system that you

can go to that is like mediates your

experience with all these different

apps, so you don't get sucked into these

negative dark patterns, and it and it

has access to all the data, so it can

tell you how you can make your life

better, how you can make your content

better, how you can make your business

better. And we use that in our startup.

Like we have all of our data is

accessible via AI agents. There isn't a

part of our business where you can't go

in and analyze

every part of your business. And since

we set up scrape creators, which is an

API, I can pull all of our social media

data from any platform, and including

the videos and analyze all of the videos

and such. And so,

I think we're entering this new world of

of

kind of two things. Like one is just

like the AI native person, where they

anything that involves tech, they'll

first go to their AI, and it can do

things on their behalf and show them

what they need to show. And then the AI

native business, which is

anything you might need for your

business, anyone on the team can talk to

an agent, and they can get the correct

answer back, which I think is the next

level for creator businesses, as well. I

I want to

I want to run something by you real

quick. So, I think a lot of the personal

workflows that you have I I don't know

how big is your like editing team off

like I I don't know how you you have

like contractors that you work with for

editing.

>> like just two editors. Yeah, one motion

guy, one editor, yeah.

>> And did do they work together? Are they

an agency, or do they work together?

Okay.

>> They're basically a little agency, yeah.

>> Cool. One thing that would be cool is

like shared skills, and I think Claude

Anthropic is trying to go in this

direction with Claude Tag. Have you

tried Claude Tag yet? Do you know what

that is?

>> I I know what it is, and like that seems

like the sort of more enterprise

acceptable version of what Buzz is

trying to do, right? Cuz most companies

aren't going to move off of Slack, but

they'll try the beta for Claude Tag.

This idea that like you've got an agent

that has provisioned access to every

aspect of your company is super

powerful. Yeah, and like in in my in my

world it's just like Codex at the

moment, but it's like I could not agree

like that if you can have conversations,

have agents with contacts, and start

assigning tasks all in again like a sort

of a shared canvas for collaboration, I

think there's like so much potential.

>> Yes. And like

uh you know, as we I've built out my

team, the agents inside Slack are

becoming much more like useful, right?

Because I want anyone on my team to be

able to use the skills that I use. And

that that takes a lot of communication

from me beforehand. But you did bring up

Buzz, so I do want to talk about Buzz.

You want to talk about Buzz a little

bit? I I you said you're not convinced

about Buzz.

>> No, no, no. I just need to look into it

more. I mean like I liked it. I saw your

last video about this, right? Like

whatever a couple days ago that it came

out. I think it seems really cool. It

feels like it has all these aspects of

like Open Claw that was appealing where,

you know, I would when like when I made

the first like world view and God's eye

view stuff, it was all

Open Claw is the harness derived, which

I guess is just Pi driving Codex and

Claude code. And it was probably token

inefficient, but it was so much fun for

me to just be able to like say drop

voice notes and like sit in the 2E and

like say stuff that like, you know,

I wanted the benefit of that, but in

like a more natural intuitive interface.

And it feels like Buzz does exactly that

with ACP, right? You just connect all

your different agents to it, and

suddenly this thing can be that hub

where you can have Claude and Codex and

insert other AI harnesses like all

talking to each other. So, that that's

super exciting. I I definitely want to

Do you would you say that it it's like

fun enough to like is it good enough to

just like replace Slack wholesale and

just move over?

>> No. Um

I I again, remember we talked about Open

Claw about how a lot of it wasn't

necessarily immediately productive to um

to kind of mess with it, but like

through the process of testing the new

technology, you learned a lot.

>> a ton.

>> You learn a ton, you learn about

connections, you learn about the

capabilities of agents. And I think

that's what this is for me. This

>> Mhm.

>> platform is seems to be like an early

adopter platform in the sense that

I don't see teams switching over to this

anytime soon. I I could be wrong because

I think it has everything they it might

need to It's just too complicated. What

I think right now we're entering the

next frontier in this agent adoption,

right? I think the first half of I guess

I guess we're 7 months through 2026. I

think the last 7-8 months has been

around personal agents. Open Claw was a

very personal agent. It was a single

agent that you gave a computer that you

could message through a channel. Right?

And then from there we saw, you know, a

lot more and even before that people

were using Claude code, which is an

agent running on their computer, and

then Codex, and then Hermes agent, for

example. It's kind of this personal

revolution. I think

>> Mhm.

>> what Buzz signifies to me is kind of

this transition into a team of agents.

What Claude Tag represents is like how

do you use agents as a group of people?

How do you create a company second

brain? Whether it's

>> Mhm.

>> whether it's for your team of three or a

team of 10 or a team of a thousand. The

last episode I did was with Guillermo

Rauch. That's coming out in a few a few

days at Perplexity. He they have a V

agent that their whole company interacts

with. And this agent gets smarter. They

have a whole team managing this agent

because it helps them so much. And so I

think that's the era we're moving into

right now is like how do you put agents

into teams? The reason Buzz is

interesting is

>> Sick.

>> Buzz can create You know all those like

if you have a Slack and you add more

people, you need to have the admin add

people. You need to create shared

channels and you need to give proper

permissions and you're just going

through the toggle. Well, Buzz was

created so that an agent can do all of

that. So like I could ask any of my

agents. And so this allows you to add

any harness. So I can add the Codex

harness, I have the Claude code harness,

I can add cursor, and the default model

with cursor is Grok. And I can just at

mention all of them, and they'll

actually collaborate. Buzz did a great

job with their system prompt so that

they actually collaborate in a way that

like I'll come back 15 minutes later and

they'll have a good conversation. And

then Codex will be like, "Okay, based on

all the information I have, I will start

on this project." And so seeing agents

work together is such an interesting

>> In terms of keeping each other informed,

is the chat do they just read the text

and figure out the right state of what's

do like basically status of everything

in the chat itself? Does that end up you

know, making it so like so like what

stops like a race condition of both run

off and try doing a thing or something

like this?

>> So, I I I said this in the Buzz video. I

said, "I've tried this before and it

does create usually this race condition

where they talk for way too long,

context gets super clouded." Buzz

doesn't do that. So there's basically

like a From the way that I understand

it, there's like another Buzz

wide system prompt that gets injected

every time they interact. And for

whatever however they set that up, I

haven't analyzed how they set it up,

they don't do that. It'll usually be

like one or two interactions. I'll be

like, "Hey, discuss it with Claude

code." And then I'll be interacting with

Claude, right? Claude is Fable by

default. So I can message Claude and I

can say hi, and this is this is

literally and then they'll like at

they'll like show the little

uh emoji. And then you can see which

one's working. You can click on their

activity, you can see that it's working

at all times. And then once it responds,

it'll respond. Um and I'll at mention

Claude, and I'll be like, "Hey."

And I'll be like deep in a conversation.

And then you can just see that's like

"Hey, uh what are we working on?"

>> These chats persist in your Claude code

locally, right? As well.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> Right?

>> Yes. So it's basically just using Claude

code under the hood. In fact, if I were

to say like I can and Claude code um,

ask Codex about what I talked about

today in the Codex app. And so, this is

using

Mhm. And I can I don't know. Maybe I

need to mention Codex.

Actually, I don't think so. Cuz here it

says it's mentioning it. And it can

mention any of the other agents, and it

can ask Codex. And so, oftentimes I'll

be deep in a chat session with Fable,

and I'll be building something, I'll be

coding something, and I'll ask say like,

"Hey, Codex has a skill that allows me

to do do this thing. Can you ask Codex

for that skill, and then use it and do

it properly?" Or I'll say, "Hey, can you

just ask Codex to do this one thing for

me?" And because it's all in one shared

workspace, they just pass context back

and forth to each other, which

>> that.

>> Because you said you use Claude for a

lot of things that are And I agree with

you when you said like, "I think that

Claude is way better at creating like

documents, presentations, and then just

front-end design design sense in

general." Um

And so, you probably have different

skills on Claude Code than you do Codex,

correct?

>> That's right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> So now, you're in this shared workspace

where you can almost like have them If

Claude Code doesn't have a skill, you

it'll you can probably just tell Claude

Code that whenever you don't have a

skill, ask Codex if he has it. And then

maybe it can use that skill. And so,

it's not super refined, but like you can

kind of see where this whole trajectory

is going. And you can kind of do this in

Slack with And a lot of not a lot of

people know this, but OpenAI released

what's called workspace agents, which

you can now add to Slack. So, it's very

much like Claude tag, except it's it's

almost like a GPT work agent that runs

in the cloud, that has all these

different skills that you can give it

that can can connect to all the plugins

your Codex can. And you can give it a

personality, and you can let your whole

team message it, which is

which is really cool. So

>> I'm going to try this out. Yeah.

>> Yeah, based on everything I said here,

like do you think this would be useful

for your workflow, like using it with

the team?

>> I mean, like this has many of the fun

aspects of what I was doing in WhatsApp,

like group chats. I had this thread

called the council, like many people,

with all the agents, right? And then

when I'd be thinking about a new idea,

I'd like to see it attacked from

different perspectives with different

models weighing in with their own

nuances. And so, like just to be able to

do that all in one place, but also have

it multiplayer with other folks, too, is

really cool. Um yeah, like this has

in many ways it has a lot of that charm

that like like those magical moments

that like early open claw kind of gave

you if you're in like a big Telegram

thread with your agents and somebody

else or, you know, uh what have you. And

it's it's so fun to collaboratively

prompt these systems, too. It's like

this new form of like pair programming,

like you're kind of like the in a sense

the agents are doing the work, but the

fact that you can like collaboratively

do this. I'm already having some

experience we're doing this with Slack.

Um like

with with our own agents, like what is

it?

A GLM and Kimmy. And it's like a code

review agent. It's like a lot of fun.

>> Yeah.

Uh it is it is just fun. And I think

we're in the early stages. So, this is

probably like January of open claw when

people, you know, some people were using

it, but like no one shared anything that

was like quite useful yet. And so, I

think the team of agents is going to be

kind of the second half of this year.

Okay, so before I let you go, I want to

talk about your viral YouTube video. You

had that viral project that you created.

It got 2 million views. Can you tell me

a little bit more about that?

>> Hell yeah. I mean, that was an

interesting experience. It

In many ways it wouldn't have happened

if not for open claw.

Um yeah, kind of kind of the origin

story is basically like

it started off with this tweet.

Basically, I was playing around with

Gemini 3.1. And as I mentioned, Gemini's

much better at spatial reasoning than

Claude 4.6.

And, you know, for those that don't

know, I spent, you know, a decade in

tech mostly at Google working on like

geospatial 3D mapping. And one of the

things I worked on was like

photogrammetry. How do you create this

3D model of the world and put it out

there with like 3D tiles? How do you do

visual positioning and so forth?

But it's like a static rendition of

reality. And I got into vibe coding. I

was using Open Cloud at the time as the

harness that was driving perhaps very

token inefficiently,

um, you know, these these different

systems. And basically the idea I had is

like, well, I want to paint the world

with information. And I went down this

like crazy rabbit hole of like, well,

what kind of information is there to

paint on top of the world? And went deep

into open-source intelligence. I knew

something about like the few layers

available, but as I went deeper with

agents, it was like there was so much

more out there. And it turned out all

the CCTV cameras in Austin are actually

open. Like you get an image once every 5

minutes and there's some very

interesting things you can do with that.

So I made this initial prototype,

thought not much of it, went to sleep,

and I woke up to it trending. Like men

and all these folks were like

like tweeting about it like like oh,

this guy like vibe coded Palantir. Now,

it's obviously very different than

Palantir to be clear.

But for whatever reason, Joe Lonsdale,

one of the co-founders of Palantir, goes

on TVPN and talks about it and basically

says like, "No, no, no, no, like

proprietary data fusion. This isn't like

only low-end SaaS is at risk." And so

like the next week happens and I'm like,

"Ooh,

like there's a war breaking out." And it

was kind of funny. Like literally, so

for this video over here, um,

I was literally sitting on I was

literally sitting on my like couch

watching CNN and the news is going down.

And I realized, "Holy crap, I've created

the exact right infrastructure to

basically store all these OSINT signals

that you like satellite tracking, plane

tracking, vessel tracking, all the

social media feeds in and around area,

be able to geocode them and visualize

them." And I created this like 4D

reconstruction of the the

24 hours of epic fury. And then after

this, I did a follow-on with, you know,

tracking the Strait of Hormuz and a

bunch of other things around it.

So, what it made me realize is that like

honestly, there is no such thing as like

a audit trail for physical reality. If

you want to go get this information, you

got to go to like seven or eight

different tabs,

be a geospatial expert to be able to

fuse all this stuff together. So,

basically what I've been doing is like

experiments that take everything from

space to ground, including the recent

stuff you're seeing with like meta

glasses, phones, and so forth. How do

you put this all into a scrubbable 4D

globe? So, that's basically what I'm

going about building. Um it's really

cool. I got a co-founder now, um like

really awesome CTO, worked with him at

Google, former Nvidia, and we're

building something new. So, I'm excited

to share more on that.

>> you're going from vibe coding Palantir

to you now have a CTO who can actually

just code Palantir.

>> Well, you know, I don't know if it's

like uh Palantir per se. I think there's

plenty of

uh

the way I'd put it is like a publicly

legible Palantir. Like I think Palantir

is really interesting and powerful to if

you have proprietary data sets, you

know, to make sense of what's happening,

you know, if you're an institution, for

example, uh you're or a big enterprise.

What I'm really excited about is taking

open and commercial data, and I cannot

tell you how insane the conversations

have been over the last few months. Like

journalists are interested in this

stuff, activists are interested in this

stuff, defense primes are interested in

this stuff, defense tech startups are

interested in this stuff, the Department

of War reached out. And it was like this

thing where like it was this crazy thing

where it's like the same thing appeals

to sort of both sides of the aisle, and

it tells me that there's something

unique here, which is like and to me, I

boil it down to really like how do you

build a window through which you see the

world where it's not like three dots on

a map and like four people on a news

channel talking about it, but you can

get as close to making sense of it

yourself. But given I'm a geospatial and

3D person and so is my co-founder like

we're really approaching it from like a

3D first perspective. You know, you

could build like a Bloomberg terminal

for example. That's kind of cool and and

and has its place, but really this is

about how do you take all the sensor

data

in the world that's like you know

publicly available or commercially

available because let me tell you there

is so much crazy data that's

commercially available including like

satellite providers that are doing cool

stuff, but people paying like fisheries,

you know, like basically hey, we'll put

a Starlink on your fishery so they can

start collecting AIS data for vessel

tracking data in and around. And so

yeah, build the window through which you

see the world and create an audit trail

for physical reality. I'm going to open

source the original project later this

month. So that feels more like a I would

call it like a

like sort of think of it like a like a

spy simulator in your browser. That

feels like you're in in CENTCOM like

with a dashboard pulled up. And by the

way, there's a lot of people that just

want to throw this stuff on like a

massive window and like you know, just

like pop two Zins and like drink an

energy drink and just monitor the

situation. That's cool and so that's

what this open source tool is basically

all about. It's like a spy simulator. It

feels it has those like spy thriller

aesthetics, but it's underpinned by real

data and I'm particularly trying to

focus on like finding the cheapest APIs

possible for the open source release so

folks can have a really good experience.

And then following that will be a

commercial product. So V1, the community

voted on this. V1's going to be open

source. V2 and onwards to truly scrub

the globe that there's a lot of

expensive data involved and a lot of

computation involved to get like 30 plus

layers to work nicely on a 3D globe.

>> The way that you did this is so cool

because correct me if I'm wrong, you

probably didn't manually go look for all

of these data sources. You probably had

your agent go and and try to find a lot

of this data, right? When you first vibe

coded it with open clock?

>> Hell yeah. It was literally like go do

some deep researches on like what is

actually out there. Let's go figure out

every single API, what's open, what's

not. And the fact that I could just do

this like sending voice notes or like

doing voice dictation, it's like I had

my buddies from like Google Maps hit me

up. I was like, "Dude, you did this in a

freaking weekend?" Like that

>> Dude.

>> And it spawned so many people creating

cool similar things.

>> This origin story is insane. Right? You

got open claw to create a little 3D

simulator that uses real data, that it

went out and found the data. And then

you were just having fun. You created

this project, you threw it on Twitter,

you made a YouTube video. And then I'm

guessing when you say the community

decided, a lot of that community was

formed through the YouTube video, I'm

guessing. Like that's where people

>> YouTube and Twitter have been definitely

been the two. But dude, it's like people

reposted it on Reddit. It that thing

went so it it like was kind of beyond my

wildest imagine. I've had stuff go viral

in the past before, but it felt like

this was like one of those things where

people talk about like PMF, like product

market fit. It's like people are like

not like, "Ooh, this is cool. How do I

build it?" People are like, "I want

access to this right now. Where do I

swipe my credit card?" Like that was the

reaction.

>> Con-

>> And

>> content audience fit is what I call it.

But like yeah. And I I think I think

that's first of all that's just like the

right way to do business now is to just

like create a prototype, make content on

it, and if

I mean this is like the best possible

case. I mean I I'm sure you realize that

going viral for a long form video is so

much better and so much more powerful

than going like viral on TikTok or

something like that because

>> Or even X, yeah.

>> Or even X because someone spent, you

know, 10 minutes watching your video,

and then now they're you probably have

thousands and thousands of comments,

people talking about like, "Oh, you

should add this. You should add this."

And so I think what a cool

story. I mean you've truly vibe coded a

prototype, and now you're you're doing

it. And so yeah, I guess what does that

look like for you? Like how much time

are you spending on this um and then how

much time are you spending on content?

>> Man, that's been uh the hardest part. So

I'm trying to scale up my team and uh so

if you have recommendations on editors,

let me know.

>> Oh, on editors. Okay.

>> I so I'm looking for a producer and an

editor. Like I basically like I really

enjoyed doing the producing aspects

previously and now it's just like I

don't have time cuz I'm spending most of

my time actually coding and building

this thing out. The whole point is like

the content I love making content about

spatial intelligence. That's always been

my shtick and I want to keep doing that.

And as you can see with the other video

content I've been producing, it's like

basically what I'm trying to do is also

like, you know, again, I call them

frontier maps. I want to give away the

recipe too. Like a lot of people like

advised me saying like, "Why are you so

detailed about how you created this? Why

are you putting like which APIs you used

on your Substack?" And I'm like,

"What what are you This information

needs to be free." Again, like this is

and the fact that you see people riffing

on stuff and then they cite you as

credit to go do it. That to me so

enriching cuz they give me ideas. So

that feedback loop I think people should

spur and I want to lean more into that.

So the content has to stay.

>> Never let Never let someone get you to

not do that because what you own is not

the software. You own the movement,

right? And so as soon as

Yeah, as soon as you close it off, you

don't let anyone else participate except

for as a consumer of your technology,

then you also allow someone else to

create the movement, right? In that in I

think we're kind of in that era of

software. So Sorry to interrupt you. I I

just

>> No, it's beautiful point.

>> Yeah, so many people

will advise you to just like keep all

the secrets for yourself. But if you

look at all the people who are crushing

it in business and content where they

don't really have any secrets, they just

they truly own the movement. I think of

Alex Hormozi a lot with the business

side where he just like

all the business people try to release

courses and they don't even come close

to the content that he just gives away

for free on on a business side. And so I

think

>> that's how you win is you just create

the biggest movement you possibly can.

>> And make it like give people the

templates to have fun with this stuff,

right? Like half of this stuff is like

we're all discovering what these agents

are capable of and it's so fun to me.

Like I literally say this at the end of

my videos is like point your clanker at

this YouTube video transcript, tell them

to go to my Substack, use that as a map

and make your own thing. And I've gotten

outreaches from like even for like the

the shot tracking application I made.

People are like, "Oh my god, this is

like at this intersection of three

different things I care about. Check out

this thing I made." Or hey, check this

out. You know that topic you covered? We

actually have this kind of system on an

airplane. You want to come out to New

Mexico and like ride in it and like we'd

love to see what you Like it's it's

insane the things that happen when you

just like kind of give people maps to

build their own journeys, right? In a

sense. And so so that to me is very

exciting. But yeah, like coming back to

the the content thing cuz yeah, if you

if you know good producers who are good

at like um you know, essentially or

anyone listening to this that like like

likes the kind of content I make and is

interested in taking like my mad science

experiments and like ideas like to like

these complicated topics I'm trying to

cover and make it accessible. Like my

the goal for my video content, if you

watch any of my video essays, is like if

an expert in that field sees it, they're

like, "This is a good distilled

summary." And if a normie sees it,

they're like, "Oh, I actually understood

that for the first time."

It can't It There's too much, you know,

people are There There's a lot of

content out there that just gets a

little bit more um

I don't know. Especially in this space

with geospatial and kind of like

real-world understanding. It's so

dual-use. There's a lot of either

fear-mongering or ultra-maximalist like

defense tech hoorah. And it's like

there's no nuance in the middle and it's

like

>> Sure.

>> you know, so

trying my best to to strike that

balance, but

>> Yeah.

>> Gosh, it's so much fun. I think I have

way way more screen time and

Vibe coding is probably more addictive

than social media. I'll tell you that.

That's for sure.

>> 100%. It's so fun, especially the way

that you've done it. I think I think

honestly, I when you open source that, I

may just try and have a little fun with

it. Maybe I'll do a live stream. That

sounds like a absolute blast. Um anyway,

>> dude, this has been so much fun. We

should do this again soon. Um thank you

so much for for coming on the episode

and I wish you the best of luck with

your company. You're going to I I know

you're going to crush it.

>> Thanks for having me.