You and I live through a couple of

bubbles. We've seen this movie before.

>> Um and and this wave seems very

different than do waves. So, let's talk

about that. Are you concerned about a

bubble? We're seeing bubbly like

behavior. People

>> It's not It's not the traditional dot

bubble, right? Because back then there

was companies going public getting crazy

valuations and people are buying them

and the stock would go up, you know, 50%

100% with companies that had no revenue,

no traffic, no nothing. and you'd go get

a cab back then and people would be

talking about them. Yeah. And you don't

you don't see that at all today. So,

it's not a bubble that's going to impact

most people in the room, right? Or most

people um across the US, but it could

just destroy a lot of VCs and a lot of

funds and a lot of PE, right? Because

they're going all in.

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>> It used to be that product managers for

brokerages had to outperform the

numbers, right, for, you know, the S&P

or whatever. But now you got to

outperform to keep the money coming in.

You got to outperform the the fund next

door. And they're all in anthropic and

getting their outcomes and SpaceX and

celebrating, but if hits the fan

>> Yeah.

It really is like I've only done venture

for just over 10 years and it is wild to

watch so many people who deployed at the

wrong time just out of business. They

just invested at the peak and entry

price matters and you and I have been in

a bunch of deals together and we used to

get to investing companies at 5 million

10 million as angel investors and then

all of a sudden the request was 40 50 60

and the product's not launched and

you're like how does this work?

>> Yeah. And you know, and what's happening

now is the market leaders, Google, etc.,

Meta, they're borrowing hundreds of

million, billions of dollars.

>> Yeah, that's interesting.

>> And there's already a private credit

problem right now, right? So, you you

you just layer on private credit like um

Al Capital getting all the um refunds

and then you you know, you have these

huge companies that have cash flow, but

there's, you know, they're they're

spending all their cap cap um cash flow

on capex and then they're borrowing on

top of that. bonds, right? That's

planning for perfection

>> and that's going to be hard. And we're

building these data centers and you

know, if there's a price performance

curve on AI that minimizes the power

requirements, there's going to be a lot

of data centers that are going to be

turned into pickleball courts.

>> Interesting. Because they just can't get

the power turned on.

>> No, just the power just everybody thinks

that okay, there's going to be so much

more utilization and there will be,

right? It'll just scale like everybody

expects, but there's going to be

breakthroughs in technological

breakthroughs as well. Just like we saw

fiber back in the day, it was all about

putting in fiber. Then it went from 1 GB

fiber to 10 to 100 gigabyte and then

there wasn't a fiber problem anymore.

There wasn't a bandwidth problem

anymore.

>> Quite the opposite. We had dark fiber

that people used. Yeah. Pennies on the

dollar

>> and just sitting there, right? And how

is it not going to be the case that we

don't get the same price performance

improvements on the AI side and on the

data center side?

>> Yeah. And then with all the hate going

against the data centers, I think that

could be, you know, protecting them. And

I mean, spending committing tens of

billions of dollars for 10 20 years

going out.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, nobody can predict that. Well, I

mean, you're you you used the word

pricing to perfection, I think, earlier

in the conversation, and that's really

what's happening. I mean, you have to

have a thesis that we're going to put a

hundred, you know, open AI, uh, hundred

billion dollars to work and that's going

to come back not just in revenue, but it

has to come back in earnings,

>> margin dollars.

>> Yeah. It has to be profitable.

>> Yes. and you just don't know, you know,

>> and I'll tell you the other in terms the

correlary for um bubbles, right? In this

particular bubble, because it's so

driven by private capital, there should

be a lot more companies going public,

not at the SpaceX level for not open AI,

not anthropic, but the hundred million

dollar um IPO.

>> Yeah.

>> Because if AI does what AI knows, we all

we we all know what it'll do in terms of

disruption.

>> Yeah. Then you want to have um some sort

of um currency that allows you to buy

all those companies like you guys were

talking about buying different legal

companies. Yeah. Right. Well, if you

don't have that currency, the stock is

currency, you're going to have to go out

and raise money to do it. And if

anything happens, and that money is not

cheap, that money is really, really

expensive. versus if you go out and you

do a hundred million dollar IPO or a $50

million IPO and you can do a secondary

or whatever as many times as you need if

you're performing. But the minute that

company that you're competing with that

is a legacy business can't keep up or

there's some other um company that has

domain expertise that you need or data

that you need like you guys were talking

about.

>> Yeah.

>> You want to be in a position to buy

them.

>> Yes, that is forward thinking. Yeah. No

one is forward thinking like that at

all. And I'm like trying to tell my um

my portfolio companies, go public,

motheruckers. Go public. They just don't

think that's the right thing to do.

>> Well, and M&A is, you know, not to make

this political, but you know, when

you're an entrepreneur, you have to play

the game on the field. M&A was off the

table. Lena Khan had a certain

perspective, which was we have to be

like precogs in Minority Report. We have

to predict who's going to be a monopoly

in the future and stop them. Now, it's

like, okay, consideration with to

compete with China and everything else

that's going on globally.

>> Four years of no acquisitions. I mean

the people I talked to who are in

corporate development were like we we've

been told to stand down

>> because it's not where we are but even

so right it's you know with mergers and

acquisitions at that scale fine but if

AI does what we know it will do the

companies that are disruptive don't have

to be enormous companies.

>> No.

>> So you don't want to have to always

raise cash to go out there. insight like

the

>> right because like back in the day back

with broadcast.com we bought like five

companies just for stock

>> and then there was always a bigger fish

to come along

>> which we were happy to you know because

yeah

>> yeah the famous collar uh if you were a

clawed employee if you're at anthropic

you're at openi is it uh time to start

thinking about the collar trying to

thinking about yeah pairing the

>> position you know I collared my stock

because how rich do I need to be

>> right

>> you know and if you if you're able to

change your life. If I work for any

SpaceX, any of them, whatever, I'd be

like, you know, somebody put together a

collar for me. Yeah. You know, because I

just need to be protected, save part for

my upside, but just cover my downside.

>> Yeah. Um when you did it, you had to

>> like um actually orchestrate that,

right? It didn't exist as a product.

>> No, it didn't. So, I had to actually

create an index of internet stocks. I

had Goldman Sachs create an index of

internet stocks that I thought sucked.

And then I shorted that index because we

and we had to follow all the laws and I

just had to have that short in place

until I was able to do a real collar in

the market on my Yahoo stock. Yeah.

>> And I lost tens of millions of dollars

on that short. Yeah.

>> But I made up for it.

>> Yeah. I mean the one of the great trades

of all time. Uh what do you think the

the this wave of capabilities in AI? I'm

sure you play with it because you've

always been a tinkerer. So maybe what

are you tinkering with and what do you

think um is going to be the most world

changing you know in the next 5 10 years

for entrepreneurs for society where do

you look at it and go hey let's work

backwards yeah

>> okay so AI is a lot harder to implement

than anybody expected

>> for sure

>> right you know you can do an agent

pretty straightforward right you can

prompt away you know we cheated on tests

we you know cheated at work you know did

projects improved productivity 100x,

right? All easy peasy. And we just

assumed, you know, at the enterprise

it'd be just as easy.

>> It's hard.

>> Yeah.

>> And it's terrifying. And not terrifying

for employees because Dario and

everybody saying 50% of white collar

people are going to lose their jobs.

Here we are two years later, they said

within [clears throat] two years and you

know, employment still growing, people

are hiring, we need more AI literate

people, right? So CEOs have no clue what

is going on. None whatsoever. And that's

not going to change, right? And so, you

know, trying to explain to them that

you need to add a hardness to, you know,

all the there's no chance, right? And if

you think about it from an AI

perspective,

>> if AI, we're talking about, you know,

AGI and we're talking about taking over

the world. If you can't you if you need

to have forward deployed engineers

>> that tells you all you need to know

about AI because by definition you

should just be able to ask AI to do what

I need you to do and ask and tell me how

to implement it right yet here you have

Microsoft hiring 6,000 people right you

have anthropic open AI all saying

they're going to deploy to these

companies which tells you AI is hard and

then you have um Alex Karp from

Palunteer freaking out saying how can

you give your alpha to these companies

when in my opinion he's just saying

they're doing what we're doing right

we're we're all about forward deploy

engineers at Palunteer and they're doing

the same thing. Uh it it again it's a

great insight because you can if you're

using it as a search engine or you're

making your little agent to you know go

do your cron job. Okay fair enough. It's

it's going to work. You need to be have

a little bit of systems thinking but

when you start putting into the

enterprise and you know this is mission

let's talk about the little bit of

systems thinking because that's the

second part and I'm not trying to on AI.

I love it. I invest in it. It's going to

be amazing. It's the most impactful

technology that we've ever seen and may

ever see. Right? But try going into

cloud or or chat GPT and saying okay I

just want you to do this search for

Jason Calacanis investments and I want

you to do report and I want you to email

it to me every week.

>> Yeah,

>> it can't do it.

>> Can't do it. And then it says, "Okay,

would you like for me to do an an agent

that gives you alerts and then you say,

"Sure." And then you have to know how to

program because it either gives you a

JSON file or it gives you, you know,

code and it comes out slop.

>> Yeah. And then you have to correct,

right? You have to reiterate,

>> you know, if you want to say, you know,

hey, let me load a picture in and you

tell me if I'm hot or not or is this

girl hot? What should I say to her? You

know, or business versions. Great. Yeah.

>> Right. But AI is not going to, you know,

take away 50% of the jobs. There's just

so much it can't do that regular people

need it to do. Yeah. Right. Now, does

that create opportunity? Enormous

opportunity. Yes. Right. So, like I'm an

investor in Loveable and we were here

this morning talking and um

>> Anthony was saying that Anton was saying

that um they people are using Lovable to

create 770,000

applications a week.

a week.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And that only 30% of their

business is in the US and only um 20% is

engineers. And what's happening is

entrepreneurs to answer your question

about where it's going, right?

>> If you're an entrepreneur, like he was

saying before, there were there's no

better time to be an entrepreneur.

>> He's he nailed it, right? Because that's

where AI is the most impactful. No

matter where you are in the world, they

have big utilization in Brazil, India,

right? If you're in France, US,

wherever, you know, like I gave I gave

it um a prompt like I said because I

wanted to see what it would take. I was

like, "Okay, we're going to create an

imaginary company that has a button that

can record 24-hour video." And then I

wanted to be able to send it to me every

24 hours, and I want you to create a

patent and a business plan and tell me

what um licensing or whatever I need.

12 minutes.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Like there just No, we've started tons

of businesses.

>> Yeah. Six months to get a prototype, 12

months to launch it.

>> Yes.

>> And then you have to

>> and then I ask for a bill of materials

and the source companies like the basic

stuff to be that the blocking and

tackling stuff that every company has to

do at, you know, when you're setting it

up and early in its life cycle.

Done.

>> Done. And even if it's wrong, so what?

Because the one thing you and I both

know and and everybody in the room

should know, every single motherucking

business plan ever written in the

history of business plans

>> is wrong.

>> Of course. Yeah. It's a it's a thought

exercise that at least gives you some

sort of direction you're going

>> guideline and a template for you, right?

But it's wrong.

>> So what if the AI is wrong? if the model

was wrong, you know, because it's you're

going to learn and you're going to

iterate, but it's still

>> again all this talk about taking white

collar jobs is ridiculous when it can't

even do the basic,

>> right? And you have to have like you

said a programming mindset. Yeah. in

order to be able to iterate and figure

it out. And like even you would think if

AI is advanced as we want to believe AI

is right now all the errors that we get

when we ask it to do a project it would

learn from all those errors and even

have hey I'm Claude you I see you have a

problem with this right and it failed on

these three attempts let me just tell

you what 97.6% six% of the other people

who ran into this did, right? And then

it would fix it for you would tell you.

It doesn't even do that. It just says

failed, right? Or it says whatever.

>> You know, again, AI is amazing.

>> And particularly for programmers, it's

game changing.

>> And when you have a narrow data set like

code or legal, tax, it's magic and it's

just math, right? Basic data, right? But

when you wanted to do when normal people

anywhere in the world want to use it for

normal stuff,

>> great. You start a business, great. But

if you want to start getting advanced,

it's like figuring out PowerPoint used

to be or Excel, right? You always have

to have your Excel expert, you know, or

your PowerPoint in your company.

>> Yeah. Or whoever that you knew, right?

or there would be companies built um I

even invested in like a company that

slides share that all they did was have

PowerPoint templates that you could

download and redo. AI is not even that

advanced for, you know, once you get to

the second level. And so that creates so

much opportunity for anybody to walk

into a small, medium size, even large

business and say, "Hey, I understand AI.

I have a basic computer background or

better." And so all these fails that

you're running into across your your

your company, big or small, I can help

you fix them

>> because what AI can do once those issues

are fixed,

>> is phenomenal.

>> Yeah.

>> But even better, if you're thinking as

an entrepreneur to start a business,

those things will eventually break.

Agents get bored, right? and they drift

because as the underlying um large

language model starts to change, the way

it was originally programmed doesn't

match what the the large language model

turned into, right? You see what I'm

saying? And so you and you even wrote

something about this, right? Where it's

taking more people to manage all this

stuff.

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>> I'm trying to get the whole firm to be

AI first. And even with young people,

it's like one group embraces it and, you

know, they they solve, you know, I don't

know, let's call it five or six really

pressing issues. The other group is, you

know, not embracing it. And the the

difference between those AI first

employees and the non AI first

employees, the gap is like, whoa. It's

almost like when we got into the

industry and somebody knew how to use

the office suite in a PC and then

somebody else was like on legal pads.

It's like that much of a difference.

It's so

>> people who are AI literate.

>> Yeah.

>> What when did they run into a ceiling?

>> Well, you know, it's what I'm seeing is

a lot of tool hopping which I it's a

good question because they started with

openclaw. They started building it. It

got brittle.

>> Wait openclaw.

>> Who's openclaw? Anybody using Hermes

agent? Okay, there you go. Who's on

Claude Co-work? And then, oh, whoa. And

Perplexity Computer, anyone? Okay,

interesting. Those are the four that

people have been bouncing around on. And

what I decided to do is I was just like,

"Hey, token max it. You You can each

spend a couple thousand dollars a month.

I don't care about that. I just care

about the gains." And they all wound up

um going from Open Claw. All the agents

started breaking. It's hallucinating.

It's like too frustrating. They started

using Claude Co-work. Okay, great. Um,

but kind of limited. And then they

started using lovable and they built

intranets for the venture business

that no venture business would spend a

half million dollars and 12 months

building an intranet. Like you' just be

like, I'm going to put it in notion,

Google Sheets, whatever.

>> And then they just started building more

and more software. I have two or three

people who are building software that I

would say five years ago we would have

spent maybe two or three million dollars

a year building this with that outsource

company.

>> You just would not have done it

>> which means we wouldn't have done it

>> right. You would just bought the SAS

application that did it

>> and then we would have tried to like

shoehorn it into a SAS app and customize

it. It wouldn't have worked. We would

have given up.

>> But how are you going to manage it now

once they get there? Well, you know,

again, to your company, Lovable, which

man, congrats on that investment because

that company was going to go out of

business four times. And I told Anton,

every time they say you're going out of

business, you add 100 million in

revenue. 600 million in revenue. And

four times, 200 million, 300 million.

Oh, yeah. It's going to be absorbed into

the frontier model.

>> The rest of the world, right? I mean,

I've got lovable, I've got synthesia.io

that was the first investor in

>> nice

>> 10 years ago, maybe that that are just

that's just killing it, right? I've got

AMI, which is Yakun's world model. Yeah,

we haven't even talked about world

models versus LLM and Transformers,

right? Because everything we do is built

on text and pictures.

>> Yeah.

>> Nothing's going to be text and pictures

in 10 years, right? And but what's going

to drive it? And like people say, well,

AI is so smart. It's going to change

everything. I'm like, "Okay, if you tell

AI, if you show AI a video of a

two-year-old on a high chair with a

sippy cup, the a the two-year-old knows

if you push the sippy cup over the edge,

Yeah. mom's going to come running and

the AI's the kid's going to start

laughing."

>> Yeah.

>> AI's got no clue what's going to happen.

>> Yeah.

>> None. Right. Would you ra if you're at a

corner blindfolded and you have to cross

the street, would you rather have a

video? Would you rather have your phone

with AI or would you rather have a CNI

dog?

>> Yeah, dog.

>> I'm taking the dog every time.

>> Of course. Yeah, it's not ready,

>> right? Yeah,

>> it's not ready. So, just think about how

far we have to go. Yeah.

>> You know, and all this

>> huge opportunity though. I mean, the

world models are crazy because you have

videos available on YouTube and just we

we have the world there. So, it's not

enough.

>> It's not enough. they have to wear

gloves and you're now they've got people

in Manila like doing recipes.

>> So I invested in the company matter.com

and they're launching satellites just to

take and they do specttography where

they take um use the satellites to take

videos of everything underneath them and

use a spectrum. I don't even understand

all the in order to be able to

convert it into a world model that will

provide algorithms that other world

models can use. Yeah.

>> Right.

There's just no way that the the future

of AI doesn't include video.

>> Well, I mean, it's it's a a huge part of

it. And as the inference

and and the the back to the buildout of

these data centers as we wonder what's

going to happen, people wanting to use

more tokens and then these world

building and video, man, that takes a

magnitude more tokens.

>> Video like if I'm going to be wrong on

the data centers, it's going to be

because of video.

>> Yeah. Right. and role models and

robotics which is all related. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean and robotics, you know,

it's related but we still got a long way

to go.

>> Yeah. Uh health, you look great, by the

way. I don't know what's going on. You

got the red. What do you got? Reat tie.

What's on the menu here? What's off the

menu?

>> Follow me on Instagram. M Cuban. I just

I'm eating better. Not

>> I mean, you look better now than 20

years ago.

>> Oh, I appreciate that. Thanks. Tan helps

too, right?

>> The tan. But I mean, you you look thin

and fit and and listen, we're getting up

there now. We're not kids anymore. Um,

this is definitely going to help uh AI

all the work being done.

>> I mean, and I use it too like I invested

in a company called Open Evidence.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. Which is for medical, right? And

um I used it and like I have two I have

one supplement I have to take because my

iron levels are low and I have to take

this one medication. And I was taking

them at the same time and couldn't

understand why I was having problems. I

run it through open evidence and I said,

"Here's everything I'm taking. Here's

everything I'm eating." And they're

like, "No, you got to do this. You know,

when you get up to pee at 3 in the

morning, take this medication. When you

get

>> Getting old sucks."

>> Yeah. Right. [laughter]

>> I was I was right there with you last

night. What's going on?

>> What's going on? Right. Um and so, you

know, but it's for health. It's going to

make a huge difference, but it's not

going to replace doctors.

>> No. But I mean, it is pretty amazing. I

don't Are you on Whoop or your Apple

Watch?

>> I watch. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean, the Apple the the Whoop

plus getting your blood test, just

self-directed health care with AI, man,

you're going to get some early wins and

then when you do go talk to your doctor.

>> No, you have it right there, right? My

blood tested, you know,

>> now is three to six months.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And I've been doing it for 10

years, so I know all my trends.

>> Wow.

>> So, you were doing it before function

and superpower and all that.

>> Yeah. Like I you could go look up Mark

Cuban blood test on Twitter, right? X

and I would get into it with doctors

like 8 10 years ago and saying you're

going to need this for your benchmarks

and um but it's only going to get

better.

>> Yeah. And it's going to be really

interesting. We had this big data moment

and it was like okay yeah we're storing

all this data but we didn't have any

intelligence against it now. That's

incredible when Apple is now putting

that data. They're doing studies. I

don't know if you've been invited to

studies on your Apple Watch. I'm like

well this is going to get very

interesting. Whoop! Just added blood

panels.

>> So now your sleep data, your steps, your

heart rate, your respiratory EKG

>> plus your blood work.

>> Then if you can get your diet into it as

well.

>> Yeah. That's what I watch has in eye

health, right?

>> Yeah.

>> So yeah, you're just going to get

smarter. Yeah. You know, and that'll

make your doctors able to be smarter

because 95% of medicine is guessing,

>> you know, because you can't. There's no

way a doctor can memorize all the new

that happens every single day. You just

can't. But a doctor using these tools

having, you know, the empathy and the

ability to communicate and the ability

to see.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. Because again, there's you can't

see.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, you could have doctor, you

know, why am I bleeding? You got a blood

looks like you got a gunshot wound,

right?

>> AI is not going to tell you that,

Dwayne.

Um

when we look at the opportunity here,

it's going to be a lot of change. A lot

of talk about wealth disparity in the

US. Uh Invest America, our friend Brad

Gersonner, and our friend Michael Dell,

another great Texan, and uh thanks for

welcoming me. I'm enjoying my time in

Texas.

>> I mean, it's great. I love

Texas, man.

>> Texas is fun. It's kind of like the

heat's kind of like this, though.

>> Yeah, the heat.

>> We have air conditioning.

>> We do have air conditioning. you there

there's a record number of air

conditioners coming from China to Europe

this summer.

>> You know, I looked at what companies

installed them and everything.

>> Oh, you always got to trade. You always

got to trade.

>> I'm curious, but there's no real

>> sold out. They're all being shipped here

from China at the moment.

>> Um,

>> but really interestingly, you know,

feels like

entrepreneurship, which has been our

shared passion for many decades. Hey,

investing another shared one, giving

people access to public markets, invest

America. We have this dueling narrative,

socialism in America, capitalism, and it

feels like this is the in our lifetimes.

You and I are close in age. This is the

most fevered we've ever seen it. I mean,

we have states,

maybe not since the 60s or 70s. I I

missed that. I was born 1970. You were

born, I guess, 1943.

>> 23.

>> 23. I always joke he's my brother,

>> you look good for 1923, but

>> you know it's this is pretty polarized

and and what's your take on the the

socialist?

>> There there's two things here. One, all

the DSA stuff is local,

>> right?

>> It's really easy to be mandami and in

New York when you have a budget, you get

to control it and it's local, right? You

got elected, you just do and you have to

balance the budget and you'll see it in

Michigan and wherever else.

>> I don't think it's going to be

gamechanging. But the more important

thing is the people who are doing this

are the people who are best at social

media,

>> right?

>> You know, because the algorithms drive

how people vote in the United States. I

I can't speak for the rest of the world

more than anything else. Whoever

controls the algorithm controls, you

know, the election in many cases. Trump

knows how to use it. And what what do

Mandami, you know, what what is unique

about Mandami relative to Trump? He's

what, 31, 32 years old?

>> Yep.

>> His whole adult life has been Trump.

and social media.

>> He studied it

>> and the two together.

>> Yeah.

>> And the kid the guy in Michigan, same

thing. So if if you're good at AI, I

mean at um algorithm, you know, driving

algorithms, whether it's flooding the

zone or, you know, like Trump's saying,

they're eating cats and dogs.

>> Yeah. It's just attention.

>> Yeah. And it's just, you know, defining

the algorithms because whatever you

search for, you get more of. And if they

can get you to search for what they're

saying and get show your interest, then

you're going to just get mandami 24/7.

Yeah. And you'll get the positive sides

of mandami. Or if you happen to be on

the other side of the aisle and you are,

you know, looking at stuff that's

counter than that, you'll get more of

that. We don't like but one other piece

I think is starting to change that and

that's the large language models. M

>> the thing that I think will save us as a

world more than anything else in terms

of um information availability and

reducing the information asymmetry as it

applies to politics are large language

models because large language models

have to be as literate or and literal

and honest as they possibly can.

>> Truth seeking.

>> Yeah. Truth is a better way to put it.

Yeah. So they they have to seek truth

otherwise you'll lose trust in them and

the last thing you know claude open AI

needs is well you know they're lying

their ass off about this for

>> yeah their currency is getting you the

correct answer and the correct knowledge

social media's currency is keeping you

engaged right it's two different

missions

>> totally different missions right and so

you're not going to get rid of social

media but I think people as they become

more uncertain with their politics are

going to go more and more and more to

large language models and say, who

should I vote for?

>> And the large language model is going to

come back and say, well, what do you

think about this? What are your

interests in this and da da da? And

they'll give you honest answers.

>> Yeah. And if you ask it, hey, what's a

reasonable immigration policy? It'll

give you a reasonable immigration

policy, which is like,

>> yeah, maybe shut the border and do a

point-based system like Canada, New

Zealand,

>> whatever it may be, right? I've done the

same thing and it's impressive.

>> Very impressive. You know, my favorite

troll now is like JD or, you know, AOC

will, you know, they'll come out with

whatever their craziness is on either

side of the aisle. And then I'm like,

ECRock, please vet these claims.

[laughter]

>> Be as objective and factual as possible.

Check your work.

>> Show your sources.

>> And then it just replies to them. So,

I've been just totally trolling Steven

Miller. Um,

>> oh my god.

>> Who, you know, he's like

>> anti-immigration. I'm very passionate

about like legal immigration and

recruiting great people because

>> you need them. We need them.

>> We need them.

every cuz you're running a basketball

team. Every time you get Dirk Nisky,

somebody else doesn't have him on the

team. You get Jaylen Brunson, he's not

on the Mavericks anymore. Now he's on

the Knicks. You know, like

>> Well, that's why we come to these things

in Europe, right? Yes. Because great

talent, right? Smart people. Obviously,

you guys are geniuses for being here,

you know. Um but but at the same time,

there's a different vibe in every

European country and India and the whole

rest of the world, right? And I think

you're starting to see some

entrepreneurs leave us

>> Yep.

>> to come here and that's scary and

hopefully, you know, large language

models seeking the truth will help

educate people away from what the

algorithms tell them.

>> Yeah, I think it's like important. You

optimistic now? Um, it's been pretty

chaotic, but we're seeing such great

progress. you're optimistic

>> about

>> let's start with America and then we'll

go to humanity. Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, I mean, you know, like every

country, we have our issues. Um, ours

just happen to be kind of insane. Um,

>> it is pretty wild.

>> Yeah. Um, [laughter]

but the good news is, you know, we have

term limits for our president.

>> Yeah.

>> And

>> Yeah. And it seems like 12 three terms

is going to be the one for president.

I mean,

>> you're going to run. I mean, I hope you

do, man. I would love to be your press

secretary. That would be a We'd have so

much fun.

>> We'd have fun.

>> We would have fun. Well, if he decides

to run for a third term, then I'll run.

But he's

>> Yeah. Okay, that's good. That's breaking

news. I mean, I uh honestly like, um, if

you think about what we need, I think,

in leadership, executives who can, I

think, you know, who are like post

money, post needing to make a living.

Um, that no I'm not gonna even go there.

[laughter]

>> Well, and then maybe who are doing it

for love of country and maybe some

amount of civic pride or

>> No, I get what you're saying, right? And

it's just like,

>> you know, in the US,

>> what the Democrats don't know how to

actually do anything,

>> right?

>> You know, they know how to take whatever

happens and extrapolate that to the end

of the world and the end of democracy,

right?

>> Yeah.

>> But and the Republicans on the other

hand, you know, do crazy right?

like they don't care about the people in

the country. They don't you know there's

no connection to people. There's no

empathy and so you know we're but um in

the short term but I think as we get

past this next the midterms and the next

presidential election

>> I think we'll get back to normaly. I

think we'll get I think people wanted

and you know the thing that has been

really eye opening for me having lived

in New York, California, now Texas.

You know, in Texas, we're spend half as

much money per sometimes less. I think

it's two and two 2.2 times as much is

spent on each citizen in New York. Uh

and uh we spend half as much, right?

$67,000 per person. They spend like 14

or something 12 to 14. And uh quality of

life's better. But on the flip side, New

York contributes more to the federal

treasury, right, than Texas does. And

you would think it should be the

opposite, right? just because of the

business and how things are run. So

there are trade-offs.

>> Yeah. But it's it's changing. Like what

do you think about all of us moving to

Austin and like Texas? You got

>> smart obviously for obvious reason

particularly you know like the wealth

tax sheet is just dumb dumb crazy.

>> They tried it here. Everybody work and

they did it for about two years in

France.

>> Did they? Yeah. I don't know. But you

know when Elizabeth Warren first

proposed the wealth tax and so I found

and she said well we have these models

and everything. So I found the economist

at UC Berkeley and I said, "Would you

share your model with me or at least

tell me about it?" He goes, I'm like,

"Was it more than one year?" And he

goes, "No, it was just one year." I'm

like, "Did you do any behavioral

analysis to see how people would respond

to the changes?" Yeah.

>> No. And so, you know, whether it's

Mandami, Elizabeth Warren, whether it's

California, it's it's showmanship more

than reality.

>> Yeah. And I think people are forgetting

that people are mobile, you know, like

uh

>> US. [clears throat] Yeah,

>> in the US it's pretty extraordinary. You

got Travis Sachs, myself, Elon, just a

bunch of folks have all of a sudden just

shown up.

>> I was there first.

>> You were. I remember talking to you

about it. And the thing that's amazing

to me is, you know, in California, they

won't let you build anything. And then

we go to um I come to Texas, I buy a

ranch, and I asked the guy like, "Hey,

can I like put a solar farm in here?"

He's like, "On your ranch?" I'm like,

"Yeah, here." He's like, "Oh, son, it's

your ranch. You can do that." It's like

can I can I like build like

>> trust me in the cities themselves. Try

doing that in the city of Austin.

>> I mean but just outside of it you build

and housing prices have gone three years

in a row housing prices and rents have

gone down.

>> When you build a company in Austin now

and I'm sure it's like that in Dallas

and Houston and San Antonio when I have

founders move there the entire pressure

is released. People can own a home. And

I was like wow is that

>> why do people still go to Silicon

Valley? That like drives me p.

>> I I think if you're a first- time

founder, nothing better in terms of

soaking in it. But when you're a second

time founder,

>> soaking in it, but what they don't tell

you, the it is, right?

>> Yeah, it's tough. I think second time

founders have now realized if I build it

in Texas or Nevada or Florida, I'm going

to just all the talent's going to come

>> in Silicon Valley just sets people's

heads so wrong. Yeah. Right. So whether

it's Travis, Mike, by the way, I've

known Michael Dell since we were 22.

Yeah. And I used to do business with him

way back when. Um, but just the in Texas

it's just like build your company and

go.

>> Yes.

>> In the valley it's like so are you

series A? Are you series B? Are you

series C?

>> A lot of distractions. Yeah. 25 years

I've been waiting for my Knicks

>> to win a championship

>> and you played a significant role.

>> No, the Spurs significant [laughter]

role. [clears throat] They should have

kicked your ass.

>> And why didn't they why didn't they?

>> I think it was coaching lack of

experience. Yeah. You know, cuz you're

up, put aside the 29, right? You're up

in the fourth quarter of every game. WBY

throws it into the back of some guy,

misses two free throws. Dear Fox goes

the wrong way.

>> Lot of mistakes.

>> Yeah. And you would be talking about

firing Mike Brown. [laughter]

>> I mean, it it was a we were concerned

when he got hired and getting rid of

Tibs. Oh my god.

>> Tibs. But JB was the real deal, right?

Was my Indiana boy OG, right? He you

know, he saved you guys. So,

>> yeah.

>> Uh and you had Jaylen Brunson.

>> Yep. Um

he left and that was kind of destiny.

His family wanted to come.

>> That's what he wanted. I mean I could

show you a text where his agent, you

know, text me. He says he wants his own

team.

>> He wants his own team,

>> right? Yeah. He was ready to go before.

>> And I I texted or emailed you and I

said, "What's the story of this is what

we're going to base the franchise on."

You said he's really good. He's the real

deal.

>> You know what I love? He's a great guy.

That's the best part about JB. He's just

really a good human. I I was there

>> uh for the fifth game, six rows behind

the bench.

>> That's cool.

>> And man, I I just cried. I just cried.

It's been so many years. And you got

your chip, too, with Dirk.

>> Yep.

>> It's so amazing how sports plays such a

role in so many people's lives. Yeah.

>> Especially now look at the World Cup.

>> I mean, it's just like sports has just

changed everything. And you know, like

I've been to four World Cup games in

Dallas and I hate soccer football.

>> Right.

>> I hate it. But just the whole scene, the

vibe, the energy, you can't beat it.

It's like going to a Knicks game, going

to a Mavs game. Same thing.

>> Yeah. And

>> the NBA is it is it peaked? Did It

sounds like

>> It's hard to say. I mean, you know, for

fans, no, cuz I mean, it just grows on

social media, you know. I I went um I

was walking in Paris and there was a

basketball store, you know, and it had

Wimby jerseys and Go Bear jerseys and

everything and so I mean it's just

growing globally.

>> Yeah. It is Webby the real deal.

>> Yeah. He's got he he got humbled though.

>> Yeah.

>> Which is good for him. It's like Durk in

2006 got humbled and came back better.

We'll come back bigger, stronger,

better.

>> Yeah. It's amazing how he went from this

like incredibly

I don't know. There was a there was a

magic about him to no he's a villain and

he turned into a villain

>> because it was New York and it was 50

some years right and just the

circumstances and you know San Antonio

thought they had in the bag everybody

it's like I went to Indiana University

right and if anybody here follows

college football in the states like we

were the ultimate underdog we had not

had you know we had not won 10 games we

had we beat more top 10 teams last year

than we did in 100 plus years of the

program and so that that just changes is

people's attitude.

>> You've were very much involved in rule

changes and we're going to get on AI

next, but it's just great to talk to you

about this since we're both such super

fans of the NBA. Seems like the rule

changes, the apron and um you know how

punitive it is has created a lot more

parody uh in the league and nobody knows

who's going to win like

>> well because you have to break up your

team,

>> right? Because at some point, OKC will

have to break up their team. That's why

they collect all their draft assets

because you can't have three max

players. No.

>> And if one of them turns out to be hurt

or not what you expected,

>> then you're in deep, right? And so the

second apron is just a complete game

changer. And you have to be so much

better at putting together a team than

you were before. And you have to get

lucky. Like the Spurs have went beyond a

rookie contract, you know. Um the the

OKC has got you know Hatchet on a rookie

contract. He's not on a rookie contract

any longer. So they have to be even more

careful. And so it it really changes the

strategy behind building a roster.

>> So we we're going to see back to backs

or any more

>> no chance.

>> No chance.

>> No. I

>> maybe back to backs, but not a what do

they call when you have three the three

Pete.

>> Three feet. Yeah. No more feed. can be

back to backs like you know um if Jaylen

Jay Williams um Jayd Dub hadn't gotten

hurt for OKC I think they would have

beat um San Antonio and I think they

would have beat the Nets

>> I was worried about them versus the

Knicks I knew we could beat the Spurs

but I was concerned about

>> I did not know you could beat I knew

>> we beat them two out of three of the

games of the year we spanked them I knew

it would be like a I I said Knicks in

six it was Nixon five

>> you guys barely beat the Hawks and then

>> Oh come on now we we we were tweaking

the offense and we Just had to get Cat

to buy in us points.

>> Let's talk AI.

>> Let's talk AI.

>> Um,

but it is so great to be a champion.

God, it was

>> Where's your ring? They didn't give you

>> I They didn't yet. No, I'm going to get

at the ring circle.

[laughter]

>> I, you know, I always was like, man, I

got to follow Cubes and get, you know, a

piece of

>> You always told me you wanted to buy a

team.

>> I always wanted to get like a, you know,

piece of the Knicks. And now it's like

my net worth doing great. the value of

the team disconnected from reality. I

mean, my only chance is to call like

Elon and be like,

>> part about um the valuations is it's not

driven by attendance. It's not driven by

wins or losses. It's driven by

subscriptions to streaming services. And

it's going to be interesting to see

because it used to be we looked at

ratings, TV ratings, and people said the

NBA was underperforming versus everybody

else. Now, the Knicks play, obviously,

there's some pinup um demand there, but

what really matters is the number of

subscribers Peacock gets, ESPN gets.

It's the ratings sales, but it's more

subscribers.

>> I mean, I literally had to subscribe to

like I think one or two more services.

>> Well, that's the whole point, right? And

did you keep them is the question.

>> Yeah, I'll keep them. Sure. I mean,

>> but there will there'll be churn. If

there's churn, who knows what happens

with valuations. If there's not,

valuations keep on going.

>> Wow. So crazy. All right, listen.

There's your 45 minutes with Mark Cuban,

the one and only.

[music]

>> I'm going all [music] in.