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the feedback been Dave got so much great

feedback on your ray Doo is it the end

of the Empire or were we coming back

what's awesome is a lot of the

recommendations he shared is becoming

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Administration

Elon and bessent and others in the

administration have echoed trying to get

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great bonus content from the team at

Allin today we're super excited to have

our friend Antonio graas joining the

show Antonio is

the CEO of Valor Equity partners and

he's made some he's made some solid

Investments he was one of the First

Investors in Tesla SpaceX Athena uh tons

of great or he's a second investor in

Athena after me uh welcome to the

program Antonio he put slightly more in

thank you Jason I was also in Uber with

you too by the way yes yes I did the you

did the series a I believe or the bay

what did you do right behind you we were

in the bay behind yes you were in the

shervin round okay well welcome to the

program Antonio graas and uh we've got a

full docket today and we might even have

a special caller from the White House

today no promises but you never know we

are 17 days into the Trump 2.0

presidency and seems like the main

character gentleman is Doge the

department of government

efficiency and uh they seem to have

found a little known agency us a let's

unpack it and talk about us Aid and Doge

maybe in three acts the first one let me

just uh educate the audience on what US

Aid is and then get y'all's General

reaction to it most Americans probably

haven't heard of us Aid it stands for

the United States agency for

International Development was

established by JFK by an executive order

back in 1961 Wall Street Journal summed

up its purpose as quote make friends and

influence countries in the American

interest according to the US gov website

the purpose of us Aid is to extend

assistance to countries recovering from

disaster got a budget of about $45

billion a year under Biden and uh that's

about 150 bucks per American per year

they have at least 10,000 employees or

did and as of 2023 they had programs in

130 countries obviously there's 195

countries in the

world and uh the budget doubled under

Biden from 26 to 45 the budget was

between 15 and 20 billion during Trump's

first

term but the White House and uh I guess

Elon and the Doge team found out about

this us aid went in there and found all

kinds of interesting spend $2.5 million

to fund EV charging station in Vietnam 2

million for sex changes in

lgbtq activism in Guatemala 1.5 million

to a Serbian lgbtq group 70k for a Dei

musical 47k for a trans gender Opera in

Columbia uh the Dei musical by the way

is in Ireland so if you get if you you

make it to Galloway you can see that Dei

musical this went on and on and it has

become quite a

story Antonio you're our guest here this

week you and I and saxs and Elon spent a

little time at Twitter during the

Takeover where I think a lot of these

techniques were first put into action

your thoughts on what's happening with

Doge

I mean look Jason first want to thank

you guys for having me um it's great to

see

everyone you g see the musical I like to

see music no I booked it we're all going

to the what is it

called is there actually a name of the

musical yeah it's Dei comma the

musical oh man it's a heartwarming story

I apologize getting a job sorry guys

you're not qualified for I apologize

yeah so I I think the I think the Doge

uh story Maybe starts with the Twitter

takeover yeah right so Twitter was

spewing the woke mind virus in the world

which is why you did it to begin with

and you know when we got there as you

know it was uh basically breaking even

and there's there was going to be 12 and

halfish billion dollars a 10 of the

company so a billion half dollar in

interest costs that there was no money

to pay um which led to the turnaround I

think which was the biggest turnaround

like of all time literally the biggest

turnaround I think ever in history

second biggest Tech deal ever

done 80% of the people gone that doesn't

include all the contractors that were

there and you know the company's now

servicing its debt and they just priced

yesterday their one of their Bank deals

at 97 cents so this is a huge win means

the company's doing extremely well other

people bought the bank debt and that

then the bank debt traded up to a little

over 98 so 98 and 58 you know a giant

business success a rousing business

success and Jason you were there for

part of it you saw it it was a disaster

U this place was you know it was tampons

in the bathrooms and every woke thing

you could possibly imagine and no one in

the office uh that the it was so bad

that the pens had gone dry in the

conference rooms which is is incredible

and I think that you know that's how the

so you mean the pens had gone dry

because they were never being used or

because they were being used so much

they were never been used we got there

on the yeah the Halloween weekend and we

started whiteboarding and you know

no next 10 no ink yeah I mean everything

it was it's incredible and but but uh

flowers were impeccable food being made

fresh every day for thousands of people

and thrown away um three times a day

toss in the garbage we didn't give it to

the homeless it was just it was

shockingly bad bureaucracy gone mad bad

Inc is people don't care so it was both

I think this turned into two things one

was just stop the W mine virus you know

the interesting thing is U the the they

do external brand safety checks there

now and they have 99% rating in brand

safety U now right so stock the wus

going in the world number one number two

fix the company and both have happened

it's been a couple years now right three

years now and both have happened

um not even three years two and a half

years really and both have happened and

I think you take that that that was sort

of the warm-up act for what's going on

at Doge which is you know the president

United States um president Trump wants

to make America great again and that I

think begins with making the government

great and you got to fix it it's a

turnaround this is the biggest

turnaround of all time and president

Trump has the uh courage to do it and

he's got a great Ally in Elon to make it

happen in Doge and so the numbers are

pretty easy right um we're spending uh 6

and half trillion we bring in 4 and half

trillion we got to find $2 trillion

somewhere interest cost a trillion doll

a year the bond markets were going up

the the long Bond was going up a lot

because people did believe that we

couldn't stop spending creating

inflation you see those trading down now

as doge is starting to take effect

people see it's real the stuff you're

talking about it's sort it's sort of

extraordinary what's happening and the

you know El said this public right fraud

waste and abuse he think it's kind of

10% of the budget is probably fraud I

think it might be low actually so you're

talking about you know 6 650 billion a

trillion in waste I think that's

probably about right that alone fixes

the problem but really serious about it

Jason for me and what scared me when I

when we first started thinking about

this look and I'm not there full-time

you know I'm uh in and out a little bit

and and trying to help where I can but

I'm not there fulltime um when I thought

when this started I thought we had a

democracy that it turned into

bureaucracy

okay what I'm afraid of now is we have a

bureaucracy that is about to turn into a

kleptocracy I mean a Latin American

style kleptocracy okay the stuff you're

talking about that is pure fraud and

you're make making some jokes out of it

the DI musical but if you go into the

data that's coming out of usid what you

find is you know there's a lot of

political contributions going on their

Politico itself being funded by usaid I

mean that is pure corruption that's like

a lad style autocracy and we cannot let

it go there I mean I think we I think

this happened just in a good time and

I'm super grateful to all the people

there there's you know 80 plus people

there all Patriots gone full-time okay

so chamath you've been watching this you

hear from Antonio what's your general

take on what we saw in the first I don't

know 20 days of

Doge or no 15 days sorry it's 15 days of

Doge so let me try to give you a little

bit of historical context because I

think that that's important I think

whenever I hear so many people

breathlessly saying some version of

WTF as if this is totally new it's not

new and I'll give you two examples but

one that I really want to double click

on the two examples I'll give you is

that in

1941 The Truman committee was formed

because there was a fear that the

spending by the defense department was

completely out of

whack and over the next six or seven

years and this is really what gave

Truman The credibility to them become

Roosevelt's vice president was they

found incredible levels of waste Fraud

and Abuse during the war before the war

effort and then after Pearl Harbor

during the war process over seven years

that committee and this is in$

1941 they were tasked and budgeted with

only 20 or

$30,000 okay over the next six years

they spent less than a million inflation

adjusted to 2023 this is where I found

the data was about 65 million they spent

you know how much they SA

it's estimated they saved somewhere

between1 to 15 billion in

1941 that's a quarter of a trillion

2023 the second example is we did this

under President Clinton and that was

called the National Partnership for

Reinventing government so the first

thing that I think it's important to

acknowledge is this is not new we've

done Doge twice before both have been

successful the Harry Truman one was

incredibly important because it really

set guardrails for how this can be done

everything in that committee it was a

senate committee was unanimous so it was

Republicans and Democrats that found

waste Fraud and Abuse everywhere they

saved an enormous amount of

money the second which is interesting is

these last two versions of Doge were

driven and led by democrats the same

people today who are basically saying

hey hold on a second we have congression

committees or we have inspector

generals and they lack the awareness to

know that their own party was the

driving force for this two times before

and I think it's important to just

acknowledge that those methods are not

good anymore right because I think what

we're finding early days is the rot is

super pervasive there's no

accountability and so I think you need

people to look at it with fresh eyes and

what is Doge at the end of the day what

they are are read only Auditors of the

truth and the press secretary in the

White House made this very clear it's

incredible the power that readon access

gives you all it allows you to do is

just take the data and present the data

they can't manipulate it and what

they're able to do is publish all of

this stuff in real time and that's why

this is so important because if it went

into a congressional committee to be

honest with you it would sit there and

stew for six seven eight nine months you

would maybe get small little tidbits of

it but now instead you're just getting

the full thrust of it and what is the

biggest thing that I find concerning I

think it's what Antonio said which is

that the

media who are supposed to be this

intermediary layer that's totally

objective between the government and the

people were not independent at all but

had all kinds of hidden incentives $8

million to politicos several million

dollars to the BBC I think it's

important to ask what's going on and by

the way that also has historical context

this is exactly what happened in the 60s

and 70s where it turned out that record

companies were paying DJs to pay songs

there was a huge set of lawsuits and

trial cases and the result was a change

in the law right and we call that Peola

now which is you cannot take this money

without disclosing it and so had this

money been absorbed these

entities and actually disclosed maybe

we'd be okay but Nick I sent you a link

maybe you can throw it on the screen for

these guys it's is a very simple

manifestation of this cycle we talked

about this guys and we didn't realize

how connected it all was but we were

asking ourselves during the election

cycle last year why are all these

articles buried why aren't we really

getting the truth and it turns out that

the people who were responsible for

telling the truth somewhere along the

chain were koled or just told not to

tell the truth influenced by all of this

back Channel money that was going back

and forth from the government to these

folks okay yeah let me just give some

numbers to uh what you were referencing

there the US Aid organization has been

giving money uh as have other agencies

to journals databases and subscriptions

there's probably some amount of that

that makes sense however when we look at

this during Trump 1 spend on political

was averaging around 1.3 million a year

but it suddenly ballooned up to 8

million a year under Biden and you can

see the quarterly payments here on this

chart so there's some normal amount to

spend on Publications or for a library

at an organization and so what we're

looking here is all federal agencies and

suddenly during Biden there is a very

suspicious ramp up in spend to Politico

all of this is breaking a lot of this

hasn't been verified yet so we'll we'll

put that caveat on it

and then there is a number of 34 million

that's been floating around that's all

years back to 2008 not just 2024 less

people have that

number ju supposed or or or um

misattributed when political was

acquired back in 2021 they were doing

about 200 million in Revenue so this

would be about 4% of their revenue it's

pretty significant the BBC also received

2.7 million in funding from us Aid in

2023 that was 8% of their annual income

that's a little suspicious Thompson

Reuters which is the Consulting arm of

Reuters they've received 120 million

dollar from the federal government since

2011 that's got to be looked at and

double clicked on and uh half of that

came during the Biden Administration New

York

Times hasn't actually received all that

much 370k from the federal government

last year under Biden it went from 100K

a year to like 300 so the the New York

Times data has been cleaned up a little

bit all of this is to say

there's spending going on with the press

that certainly doesn't look good and

should be verified and challenged

obviously and we are in a breaking news

environment so we'll see how that

information shakes out over time which

is one of the great things I think about

Doge is they're getting this information

out there and citizen journalists are uh

looking at public databases freedberg

and uh we're having a conversation about

this a conversation two years ago

freedberg when you kept harping on every

episode about our debt and uh you know

about the interest payments two or three

years ago you were way ahead of the

curve and now here we are we didn't

think anybody would ever take this cause

up and now it is the cause of the moment

what are your thoughts on the first two

weeks of Doge Friedberg magnificent okay

magnificent I mean what else is there to

say emoi yeah this is the eggplant Emoji

it's what we needed if you zoom out on

what doge is doing I think the best way

to describe it is zero BAS budgeting and

in organizations that go through zerob

based budgeting you do a cycle typically

annually where you take all of your

opacs all of your expenses and running a

company or running an organization down

to the studs you take it down to zero

and you rebuild it up and you say what

are we trying to achieve this year from

first principles based on that set of

objectives those goals what do we need

to do what's the minimal expense we need

to run you don't start with last year's

numbers and say what else do we need to

do and start to add on top of that you

really do a hard level high degree of

scrutiny on every dollar move out and

that's what doge is effectively doing

they're doing a zero based budgeting on

the federal government they're looking

at every line item and they're asking

the fundamental question which I don't

think we talk about in the public

discourse enough which is what is the

essential role of government and there

is a great debate to be had around that

point should government be providing

humanitarian Aid in international

markets that's a good debate to be had

should the government be providing

security to Nations that can't provide

security for themselves does the US

government have a role in that should

the government be providing loans for

people to go to sh universities should

the government be providing loans for

people to buy homes that are overpriced

etc etc etc and as we start to ask the

questions of how we're spending money I

think it ends up leading to the most

important questions which is what is the

essential role of government which I

think is the debate that needs to be had

in order for the Democracy to last so

I'm very happy to see the effort of Doge

and I think that it's the beginning of

what I hope will be kind of a long-term

process of asking the fundamental

questions about essential government and

and Antonio zerob based budgeting was

the first thing you sort of introduced

when the Twitter takeover happened just

what do we need in terms of design what

does the sales team need to hit these

sales numbers how many servers do we

need and my Lord the waste Fraud and

Abuse at that company was shocking they

had buildings that were $100 a square

foot if I remember correctly that were

used for storage of the furniture from

the previous building that had been

upgraded and were storing them in class

A office space you reference the

commissary 20 people were having lunch a

day but they had never ratcheted down

the amount of food they were making so

each meal was about $800 on average when

you when you did the math for those 20

meals just in the San Francisco office

maybe you could talk a little bit about

how the the shock and awe

campaign of just freezing spending and

then seeing hey what actually is

necessary to accomplish this task worked

out at at Twitter and then how you see

that being executed uh you know inside

of our

government yeah thanks Jason it was I

was pretty extraordinary actually the um

you know the Twitter experience the

first thing you do in a turn like that

is try and get the checkbook and just

turn payments off and then see what

happens because there are lot of people

that shouldn't be getting paid and

sometimes they complain and sometimes

you find the people that complain the

loudest are the ones who are could in

the worst fraud they're the worst

frauders in the whole in the whole game

right the worst grifters are the ones

who are saying they're crying uh the

most Amar of foul and the problem at

least in Twitter there were financial

statements like we could actually there

was an audit financial statement and

they were basically you know they were't

some ways correct I would say uh there

were some issues with the with the user

growth Dows Etc the incen plans but the

actual like you know the cash FL numbers

were pretty much correct here the

problem is much much deeper and it makes

this zero based budgeting question much

harder which is the way the government

works uh a department just basically

asks for money from Treasury and they

send it out we all run businesses

there's a Reconciliation process you you

have a contract you isue a PO against it

something comes in you check that it

came in Services is rendered and then

you issue a payable and then you know

some a month later you pay it right that

doesn't happen to the US government

there is that that process is broken it

used to happen it's broken now and so

literally money is Flowing out I used to

ask myself question why are the numbers

always revised why are they always wrong

how can the government know how much

money it's SP just hit the button in the

computer and figure it out problem is

that button doesn't exist you know we

spent time early on I was uh Mar with

trying to track through like how does

the money actually flow we no one could

tell us how it actually flows where is

it going out people didn't know and it's

totally crazy and it's the reason all go

through treasury Antonio or like can you

just explain that to us well so I will

try to explain to you I'm not sure I

have full command of it I'm not sure

anyone does quite yet it goes to

treasury ultimately but it was supposed

to flow through the way it was supposed

to work in the it was changed in the 70

in the 70s in 1973 the Nixon

administration at in 71 let me go back

they came off the gold standard which

allowed deficits in 73 at the nater of

the Nixon presidency Congress took away

from the presidency the executive power

this thing called the porit which was

the power of the executive to stop

spending so Nixon was abusing it by

stoping he didn't want and so Congress

took away from him what that means today

is the executive as he reaches in it's

very hard to just stop payments so

what's happening is the the government

is is put in a process where they would

just have an an authorized executive

kind of stamp a bill that got paid that

broke and I don't know when it broke but

it broke sometime so the money flow now

department gets a budget authorized to

it uh by Congress it goes to om om

allocates the budget that department

then just sends a money request to

treasury to pay it is reconciled against

what happened this is one of the reasons

and that's it there's no there's no

there's no controller there's no

controller function like there is in a

normal company 100% there is no control

there is no controller there's no

reconciliation the reason they can't

pass audits okay there the reason this

happens is because you can't audit

something you haven't reconciled you the

only audit that I've seen is actually

from the Social Security Administration

and when you read it I've got one of

pars who have read the thing uh it has

it's just riddled material weaknesses

that you think there are individuals

that have made like millions or billions

of dollars from Mis payments overseas

like is this kind of what's gone on in

the missing money in Ukraine do you

think like it's kind of found its way to

the wrong places yeah I mean so what I

would I don't know what happened Ukraine

I don't crazy story yeah it is shocking

about Ukraine I will say that I have

business experience trying to work in

businesses that had Medicaid and

Medicaid medicare's payments I wanted to

make that better right we Weist to make

the world better and we just stopped cuz

we sound we found so much fraud I mean

I'm I'm certain we literally have a rule

here a government pay or in in those

areas if it's more than like a third of

the business we don't do it and in the

services space this is this is why we

just s we found continuous fraud in the

companies we're looking at investing in

yeah just threading these things

together you know you the really

interesting thing with the Twitter

pausing of payments was you know at some

point we were in a meeting you know at

1:00 a.m. on a Saturday and it was like

hey let's turn the credit cards off to

see what bounces and uh you know what

happens and then of course we start

getting calls and people started routing

obviously because they knew saaks was

there you were there I was there hey you

know a company who I shared an investor

with or you know in another company said

hey you know we're not getting paid for

this and it was like some SAS software

that nobody was using Etc so you start

figuring out to your point okay is this

software even being used there was so

much software and services that had been

paid that nobody had ever logged in to

set up so it was just being paid as pure

graph now you said Antonio correctly the

people who come first like they're

probably the ones who are in on the

biggest grift because hey you know I I

figured out how to grift this money how

us Aid got to the top of the Doge list I

think is one of the most interesting

aspects of this story so if you remember

on January 21st Trump decided he would

do a bunch of executive orders right and

one of them was to pause foreign aid for

90 days okay this seems reasonable we

got to take care of our country that was

part of his mandate for becoming the

47th president of the United States so

couple of days later the White House

said hey this us a leadership is trying

to circumvent the executive order

they're in other words they're just

going to keep paying people even though

the executive order came out that

alerted the Doge team so Elon confirmed

this on X he said quote all Doge did was

check to see which federal organizations

were violating the president's executive

orders the most turned out to be us Aid

so that became our focus and according

to NBC security officials at USA tried

to prevent Doge from even getting into

the building or accessing the systems to

your point Antonio the person probably

who's got the most to hide is the one

who's going to fight the most over the

weekend Doge gained access to us Aid and

then people started tweeting out all of

this

you know crazy spend and things that any

American who looks at it and says wait a

second if we haven't fixed the goddamn

water in Flint Michigan why are we

sending money to gallway or in Ireland

to do a Dei musical this makes no sense

and that's I think the key piece of this

Antonio is can you win the hearts and

minds of

Americans because some of this stuff I

don't know if it's legal or it's not

legal or it's against protocol or it is

protocol we're going to find out there's

been tons of of legal um cases and

lawsuits that have been filed but to

your point this is how Elon found out

about usaid J let me ask you a question

where where does that place you in

your political philosophy around the

importance of Human Rights

abroad great great

question you know I've always felt that

uh the West should act in unison and if

the United States is the greatest

economy or the strongest we should lead

there is something called the Universal

Declaration of Human Rights the United

States Elanor Roosevelt uh wrote this at

the UN and everybody tries to hit those

notes I think it's great that we try to

reduce suffering in the world but I

think we should be doing it not

unilaterally and not to try to

manipulate governments and that's the

piece of this that us Aid is obviously a

grift where people are trying to steal

money for their pet projects and I don't

think they're acting in unison and above

board to look and say okay where's the

most suffering in the world how can we

help that you know that that to me seems

like a noble thing to do and if the

United States has the budget to help

fight AIDS in Africa or you know poverty

you there's a chance that some of these

human rights

issues were embellished to try to get

more money well I do think the you know

I I did this tweet recently so yes is

the answer if you look at Amnesty

International Amnesty International

where I worked was one of my first jobs

they were work working on people who

were imprisoned tortured

raped murdered systematic murder of

dissidents for freedom of speech freedom

of assembly religion Etc and then

somewhere along the line you know the

Amnesty International was tweeting about

trans rights and that's the big Focus

this is a very small amount of you know

people on the planet and I don't think

that those human rights violations in

any way relate to the tragedy we're

seeing of people being murdered tortured

raped and caned and and beheaded in

certain places in the world so

there there

is a way to look at suffering and say we

should handle this first and yes

somebody who you know uh feels they got

misgendered maybe that's way down the

priority list compared to systematic

rape of women in these you know War

zones those will be the high order bits

and so this thing has gotten the other

fascinating thing I think about USA

which I like to get your thoughts on too

jamath is at what point did this switch

from being the the left saying we should

not intervene right the left's position

always in the 8S 90s when we were

growing up was we shouldn't be doing

these operatives in other countries we

should let democracy flow let these

countries figure it out for themselves

we shouldn't be doing Empire building we

shouldn't be doing imperialism and then

all of a sudden now it's just such a

Griff that I think everybody's got their

hands in the pie lindsy Grahams on some

nonprofit that gets money from this I

don't know if that's above board or not

everybody a lot of people who are

formally in government seem to be part

of this NGO train so the whole thing

just turned out to be a grift and it's a

bipartisan grift

obviously I think the INF I think the

biggest thing that we will have to

confront is that many of the things that

we

thought were issues or

problems may have actually been somewhat

embellished because of this money cycle

sure and I think that that's going to

cause a lot of people to feel really

they'll probably feel really foolish

about some of the decisions they made

all the attempts at cancellation are

going to look really dumb in hindsight

yeah all right ni some gra to our friend

David saaks here who's coming online

okay here he is

David and and the one thing I want to uh

point out this goes way back I think

maybe more than a decade ago David tried

to explain to me that neocons had taken

over American foreign policy and they

were well your question about why did

the Democrats change Why did Republicans

change Etc the neocons took over foreign

policy in both sides Democrats and

Republicans and populated out this very

activist muster stance which is bad for

America and I think Jason that answerers

your question as to why the Democrat

shifted all right with us is David Sachs

how you doing brother are are you

literally in the white house I'm in the

uh

EOB ah okay there's like a podcast

Studio actually in the EOB oh fantastic

and you're wearing a suit every day yeah

know you're right I have to wear a suit

and tie every day I was just listening

on your your conversation about Doge

jakeob I'm surprised that you never

figured out a way to get involved in

this

USA I mean everybody's on the take

except you what's going I had known I

would have started an NGO where's my NGO

you had everything except the money

laundering you had the grip you had the

virtue signaling you had it all except

act money let me uplevel this for a

second okay so we knew the US government

runs a $2 trillion deficit every year

we're in debt almost $40 trillion and we

also knew that anytime anyone tries to

cut anything in Washington the whole

city screams bloody murder okay so the

question is just Why well now we know

the money is all going to them it's like

round tripping to them New York Times

getting paid Politico getting paid bill

Crystal perennial warmonger getting paid

Ukraine getting paid like 11 out of 12

Publications Ukraine getting paid

incredible Victor Orban who's the Prime

Minister of Hungary was saying that he's

very popular in Hungary his political

opposition funded by usaid in Poland the

leftwing political opposition funded by

usaid and on and on and on it goes BBC

BBC you wonder why everyone in the UK so

yeah yeah believe the BBC is getting

paid every leftwing organization in the

world seems to be getting paid by this

slush fund at usaid which disperses

about 50 billion a year that's a billion

dollars a week that's actually a lot of

money and so it it just it makes you

wonder you know the left in general

tries to portray itself as a movement of

the people that it's Grassroots this is

the exact opposite this is AstroTurf

this is basically money coming from the

top down out of Washington to fund all

these groups maybe not even in the

United States like all over the world so

it makes you wonder what is the real

level of local support for these

leftwing policies all over the world

yeah crazy so you did a big announcement

this week on

crypto and creating a framework finally

I I caught some of it maybe you could

just tell us you know from the bottom up

what is the Mandate from the president

and what is your advice to him on how to

make crypto move out of the Shadows

offshore icos craziness to legitimacy

what's the plan here to legitimize and

regulate crypto well the the plan was

really spelled out by President Trump

and his week one EO on crypto and it's

all spelled out in there the principal

Administration on crypto the president

said he wants to support the responsible

use and growth of digital assets and

blockchains across every sector of the

economy so the principles are all there

and yesterday I was invited up to

Capitol Hill to meet with the the

chairman of the important committees

that will be that basically govern

crypto and so we had a conference there

to announce the legislative plan you can

see there there's chairman Tim Scott

who's the chair of the Senate Banking

Committee to my left and then to my

right is french hill who's the chairman

of the house Financial Services

committee and then to his right is John

Boseman who's the chair of the Senate

agriculture committee and then to the

left of Tim Scott is um GT Thompson

who's the chair of the house agriculture

committee he's out of frame right now

now but those are the four committees

that govern crypto and you may ask why

is the agriculture Committee involved in

crypto and the reason is because the ad

committee supervises the cftc the

Commodities Futures Trading Commission

because Commodities all came out of

Agriculture so it's interesting you need

four committees across the House and

Senate to get legislation done on crypto

it's not just House and Senate it's

actually two committees in each of the

House and Senate and so this is the

first time where we've had had four

chairman of the four key committees all

come together and say that they're ready

to support crypto legislation there were

a lot of people on a who felt like this

wasn't you know a mind-blowing

announcement they wanted something that

they could trade on right away that's

not what this was this was basically a

statement of commitment from the chairs

of the four committees that we're going

to get legislation done this year maybe

in the next six months I mean that's

really the goal and we've never had that

before so that is pretty Monumental I

used to work in this because when I

first launched climate Court back in the

day we actually were selling commodity

contracts online so we we set ourselves

up as an exempt

commodity trading platform and I so I I

remember all this old legislation there

was the commodity Futures modernization

act if I remember when they deregulated

the energy Market but one of the

features of the commodity features

modernization Act was that they created

this concept of an exempt commodity

contract which was where you're not

delivering a physical good

and that's basically what weather

derivatives were and energy derivatives

and other kind of indices were created

that didn't have a tangible physical

Supply and it was still kind of shoveled

in the uh in the Commodities world

that's why the legacy of all this stuff

kind of sitting with agriculture is that

the way this is likely going to move

forward is it's going to look like a new

extension of exempt Commodities and kind

of treated like that versus being

Securities the question you're

describing is called Market structure

you know what are the definitions going

to be because digital assets can be many

things you can have some digital assets

are cryptocurrencies they're actually

currencies then there's things that are

crypto Securities then there's things

that are Commodities Bitcoin actually is

regulated as a commodity right now and

then you've got things that aren't

Securities or Commodities they're like

Collectibles you know like nfts things

like that so there's all these different

categories and one of the things that

the market needs is just Clarity around

the definition so that Founders know

what the rules of Road are and they can

actually just comply with that

so giving them those definitions and

describing how a crypto project could

start for example as a security and

eventually the protocol could become

decentralized enough or maybe it becomes

a commodity that whole idea that's

called Market structure and there was a

bill in the last Congress by french hill

who is the chair of the house Financial

Services committee now that passed the

house with 71 Democratic um votes so was

fairly bipartisan but then it went

nowhere in the Senate because frankly

the bank committee at that time was run

by shered Brown who was anti- crypto so

it got stopped in the Senate right away

now we have Republican control of the

Senate and Tim Scott's the new chair of

the Senate Banking Committee and he's

expressed support so I think now we

could get a bill on Market structure

like fit21 again which was fren shills

Bill last Congress I think we could do a

revised and updated version this

Congress and that was one of the things

they all that the chairman expressed

support for so I think there's a pretty

good chance we could get this done in

the next six months what's the

opposition sax I guess it feels to me

like with the market structure question

being addressed and answered you would

have also more protection for consumers

because now businesses know the rules of

the road they follow them the structure

that protects consumers etc etc why

would people be opposed to moving this

forward moving the legislation forward

getting this all behind us well I think

this is an area where there's a really

good chance of having bipartison support

we did in the last Congress like I

mentioned that the house bill got over

70 Democratic votes I think in the

Senate we're going to need seven votes

seven Democrat votes to get to 60 right

which is the number you need if you

don't go through the reconciliation

process and I think there's a good

chance this passes with significant

Democratic support as well as Republican

it's not going to be unanimous or

anything like that because there are

still forces that are hostile to crypto

in Washington and do you think it's

going to be a discret bill or do you I I

mean it seems

like you're going to have to get a

border security and energy and budget

bill passed so it seems like

everything's looking towards

reconciliation in which case would this

be an ad junk like a like an add-on the

the question is what you can get through

reconciliation so in order for a bill to

go through the reconciliation process

where you only need basically 50 votes

it has to have a budgetary impact or

predominantly a budgetary impact I think

it's called the bird Rule and that rule

was definitely pushed pretty hard in the

last Administration you remember that

the bid Administration got the inflation

reduction Act passed through

reconciliation and all those subsidies

for clean energy or whatever so they've

opened the window pretty wide on what

can go through reconciliation but that's

the question there's one other bill that

I think is going to move pretty quickly

here too so I just mentioned the market

structure Bill the other area is stable

coins and Senator Hagerty he's on the

Banking Committee he just released a

stable coin bill there's counterparts in

the house and what the four chairman

indicated is actually they're going to

take up stable coins first and then

Market structure will follow very

quickly so I think we could see a stable

coin

bill pass Congress in the next several

months sax I guess the question is the

SEC was and Gary Gensler were the

blocker

previously with crypto and they just

said Hey listen there's an existing set

of rules here just follow those rules

obviously those rules don't exactly

apply to the Innovation happening in

crypto so the question I think after

stable coins which feels like a layup

and and a great place to start that'll

be a great early win and it just makes

people I guess that would just reinforce

the dollar Supremacy right if it's tied

to the dollar so that's good for

America but maybe you could talk to

protecting consumers because we all saw

in the first couple of generations of

crypto all kinds of griffs and icos and

things that were never delivered so how

do you balance those two things

protecting consumers who may get really

enthusiastic about this versus you know

people who might try to Prey Upon them

well the first thing you want to do if

you're going to protect consumers is you

want to bring the activity on Shore okay

because obviously when all the activity

gets driven offshore then it's hard for

Regulators to supervise it and moreover

it's hard for the market to know who's a

good actor who's a bad actor what's a

good project what's a bad project so the

first thing you want to do is have the

Innovation happen onshore in the United

States by the way it's probably not a

coincidence that the biggest fraud in

the history of crypto which was FTX was

based in the Bahamas yeah probably

little bit of a tell a little bit of a

tell and it'll be an even stronger tell

when the good projects feel like they

can come back into the United States and

then you've got the Shady ones in the

Bahamas or in other countries that

they're going to stick out like a sore

thumb everyone's going to be able to

understand that oh those guys are too

shady to operate in the United States so

the number one thing we need to do is

just bring the Innovation on Shore in

terms of the framework I think the

market structure bill is going to Define

here's a security here's a commodity

here's what you have to do here are the

disclosure requirements around creating

a crypto project so all of that will be

in the bill and then in the meantime the

SEC has created a new task force under

Hester Pur who's a sec commissioner and

she is already starting to do work in

that regard to define a better regime at

the SEC for crypto

projects you mentioned that gendler said

that the sec's doors were open to crypto

companies and they should come in and

talk to us and work with us that was

very

disingenuous crypto companies would tell

me they would go see the SEC the SEC

would tell them nothing about what the

rules were but they would have

enforcement people in those meetings

just writing down everything they would

say and the next day they would get sent

a well notice so the truth is the SEC

was not cooperating they were not

providing any Clarity they were just

honeypotting Founders basically to come

in and then they would immediately

investigate them I mean it was really

terrible look we expect Founders to play

by the rules and abide by the law and be

compliant but when you won't tell them

what the rules are and then you

prosecute them there's no fair way for

them to comply so the most important

thing is to give them a framework I

think the SEC now is doing that they're

starting to do that already and then

legislatively we're going to have a bill

that does that uh moving through

Congress over the next few months this

is absolutely awesome we're super

encouraged that you're doing this and uh

we really appreciate you coming on the

Pod uh wish you could participate in the

other three or four crazy discussions

we're about to have but we understand

you've got to stay focused on the

mission uh anything on the AI front that

we can look forward to in the coming

weeks that you're working on I know

that's the other part of your

mission well the big thing is like I

talked about last time the president

rescinded the Biden EO which was this

100 page monstrosity of burn some

regulation on our AI companies I think

that decision's been proven even more

right in the wake of deep seek because

we know that China has basically caught

up or they're very very close to

catching up it felt like that Biden EO

is written in a vacuum in which the US

was the only player in Ai and that if we

imposed a bunch of burns some rules on

our companies that somehow that wouldn't

allow China to catch up right and I

think it's pretty clear that China is

very very competitive if we R AI

companies is going to run down to

China's benefits so I think that was a

very good decision and what the

president said in his EO is that we

should devise a new AI action plan to

replace that by Neo and we're working on

that right now all right d any fun

anecdotes from Doge you want to share

I'll give you one anecdote which is I've

been working late here a number of

nights at the EOB and I won't tell you

where the Doge guys are based but you

know I know where their office is so I

just went by there to say hi the whole

room was full

of young coders I think they were

engineers but they're wearing like suits

and ties so that's a little different

but they were all working really late I

mean they're working there late up

Friday night and the facilities people

don't know what to do because they've

never had people like asked to stay late

on before so they've had to create new

uh new facilities access for for these

guys they're like you're coming to the

office and doing work we don't have a

protocol for that what how does that

work we gonna need to get you a he

you're a badge to come to the building

yeah uh well it's absolutely awesome to

see the progress you're making in the

first two weeks and continued success

we're so proud of the

effort all right thanks guys all right

do you guys think the Democrats are

going to lose people over their

opposition to Doge like is Doge really

viewed as oppositional to Democrat party

interests this is for the average person

it's a war Shack TK I think the thing is

that there was a coalition that the

Democrats had and there was a coalition

that the Republicans had the Republicans

did a better job of reforming that

Coalition and now I think what you're

going to see is a shrinking I actually

got this totally wrong I don't know if

you remember a couple years ago but my

thought at the time was if the

Republicans don't figure out how to fix

themselves they were going to go and

lose for the next 10 or 15 years and the

reason I said that was they would walk

into every M term and they would just

get their ass handed to them but I think

they figured it out that this is sort of

this thing that I've been thinking about

a lot is there's a fight in Western

societies and it's a pendulum between

labor and capital and it used to be the

thought the conventional wisdom was that

the

Republicans were Pro capital and

Democrats were pro- labor and the

Brilliance of trump is he took over the

Republican party and made it totally

populist which is to say Pro

labor and the crazy thing about the

Democrats is that they are the most

sophisticated

Liars because if you look at what

happened under

Biden you had record high stock markets

so it was purely in favor of asset

owners record high deficits record high

illegal immigration record high wage

suppression all of these things are

massively Pro Capital but they tried to

present themselves as Pro labor

that entire ruse is now being undone and

all of this data what that does is it'll

it'll consolidate the Democrats to a

shell of their former self it'll take a

year or 18 months but I think unless

they figure out how to totally hard

reset they're going to be in a really

difficult struggle to find a cohort of

people Beyond 15 or 20% of the

population for a long time well and it's

so dumb to come out against waste Fraud

and Abuse so the best argument that

Democrats had it seems was that oh my

God people's Social Security numbers or

people's privacy was being violated

because they went in and looked at the

data and how the money was raed wasted

this is the like height of not getting

the point and not reading the room 100%

of Americans don't want their tax

payments stolen they don't care if you

looked at their social security number

this isn't a privacy issue that doge is

looking at some database and that's

that's what AOC and Schumer were doing

oh my God these people are looking at

your social security number they have

access to your records who cares what

matters is how much money is being

stolen from the American public and

anyone at any point in time could have

picked up this issue this has been going

on I think you pointed out the last time

somebody really addressed this in

Earnest was Clinton so this has been

going on Obama Trump 1.0 Biden everybody

has been raising the debt all of this

grift has been going on and it's only

this time around that somebody picked up

the free money and said here's an issue

now we uh we see what happens when

somebody picks up the issue of stop

wasting money it is a popular issue this

is only going to make Trump more popular

so Jason I I um G add what you and Jamal

said I think you're both right I'm give

you a very concrete example Ram Emanuel

is now back from Japan okay he was Chief

of Staff in both the Democratic white

houses post uh Rose

um Clinton and Obama and he wrote an

oped this weekend this past weekend um

that basically said the Democrats have

lost their way because they have

forgotten what he calls kitchen table

issues the things people regular people

care about and jamat you're right I mean

the the reality is um they forgot about

inflation they forgot that inflation is

terrible for the average person it's

terrible for middle class America it's

okay for people that own productive

assets because they just go up in value

but it's terrible for people that are

wage earners and that have any savings

it's terrible for older people that are

living off savings terrible you know Rob

makes this point that if the Democrats

are going have to are going to

reconformation

[Music]

because of all of these other issues so

they have no home there is no base from

which to build from right now unless

they go through a great reset and part

of it is that they have to understand

that they are actually not pro labor

they are have been Pro Capital but that

requires such a Schism from the deepest

Believers of the democratic party who

thought you know Eat the Rich you wear

it on your dress it's so important to

you in fact actually you were feeding

the rich you just and the that you

didn't even know that is just pathetic

yeah what's funny is that you know Marg

thater famous has said that the problem

of socialism you eventually run out of

other people's money and you run

deficits right and you destroy the

country this happened in Venezuela this

is always the end of socialism it's how

it it's how it finishes it's how the

movie ends we've seen it around the

world just look look South into South

America we were heading that direction

that's what I said earlier we I was I'm

afraid we might become a kleptocracy if

this doesn't stop and I'm so grateful to

all the great Patriots of Doge and the

government the president for making it

happen cuz we were heading that

direction so the Democratic party is

lost they'll continue to be lost

interesting thing came up this week on

Monday president Trump signed an

executive order laying out a plan to

establish the first Sovereign wealth

fund for the United States for those of

you who don't know a sovereign wealth

fund is essentially an investment fund

for a country it's almost universally

based on natural resources so Norway

Saudi UAE they all have uh Australia

sovereign weal funds based upon minerals

or typically oil the United States is

not known for having the oil reserves of

the Saudis or UAE or Norway this public

investment

fund would be

apparently anchored by

potentially The Tick Tock shares that

Trump said he wanted to get half of by

giving a

license a lot of that is uh unclear what

this license would be it's never existed

but this is the concept the treasury

secretary and Commerce Secretary have

been tasked with developing a plan over

the next 90 days and uh the plan should

include quote recommendations for

funding mechanisms investment Strategies

Fund structure and a governance model

chamath you were tweeting about this

what is the point of having a sovereign

wealth Fund in the United States if

we're 36 trillion in debt shouldn't we

just pay

down I I think it's not where this money

going to come from yeah well it's not an

either or thing and I think the point is

that if there are assets that are minted

effectively overnight which I think the

50% share of Tik Tok would be so call

it1 $150 billion doar the question is

what should you do with it and who

should govern it and I think this idea

that if you had a group of five Elder

Statesmen so I'm just going to throw

some names out there David terer Stan

ruen Miller Ken Griffin John dor or Mike

morritz Bill gross or some other Bond

guy my point is what you get are five

people that are very sophisticated

across all Market

categories one of them could be the

rotating CEO for some number of years

people should rotate in and rotate out

these are unpaid jobs because everybody

that has these slots should be Mega

billionaires so they shouldn't be doing

it for their own personal advancement

and they should deploy that Capital so

as you sell down the Tik Tok shares

maybe as you sell Federal lands and you

generate more oil Revenue take it all

and invest it on behalf of America into

American companies I think that's a

great incredible idea Antonio you think

the government should be in this

business so I have I I think it I think

it should but and I agree with shth uh

that the governance is very very

important I think he's got a good idea

there I think it for a different reason

is that we don't have an industrial

policy in America uh many of our

competitors around the world in

particular China have a long-term

industrial policy and they put enormous

amounts of capital behind the industrial

policy uh a sovereign wealth fund I

think would be a stealthy way to create

industrial policy in America so rather

mean industrial policy in this context

so example in China they want to they

want to build chip Fabs and they want to

catch up to to uh

tsmc so what do they do they take the

dollars of Trade Surplus they get from

US every year and they pour back into

making that stuff inside their country

and for decades part of the problem

we've had with China is that capital is

free because the banking system just

pushes money out to manufacturers and

they move the manufacturing because the

WTO from the US to China that's the

industrial policy people say the Chinese

have a long-term 100-year Vision the way

it's it manifests is this industrial

policy we don't have that here at all

and we try to do it we do like the chips

act and it goes through Commerce we have

government bureaucrats deciding how to

spend $200 billion to modernize Intel

which needs to happen I mean I'd much

rather have Ken Griffin Bill gross any

of the guys choth mentioned deciding

okay we have five Industries in America

we want to invest in let's make great

Investments right I mean let's make

great Investments for America they got

to be economic they got they got to make

money for us but they got to be good for

the country I think that's what most

these Sovereign wealth funds do some of

them make portfolio Investments but many

of them like the The Sovereign wealth

Fund in Saudi Arabia the piff they're

making enormous Investments domestically

to remake the economy you know toward

tourism example and I think this is a

great idea they're literally building CI

in neom they've got you know a dozen

cities being

constructed and trying to take an oil

economy and shift it to a tourism

economy a technology economy a private

Equity economy Antonio is totally right

like Scott bessent part of his

Congressional testimony you guys

probably saw this was he laid out this

thing that he has that's called the 333

plan right in the 333 plan says we want

to see GDP growth of 3% we want to see

deficits that are no greater than 3%

and we want to have 3 million Bears of

oil right produced domestically in the

United States but if you double click on

that if you look at the total energy

reserves in the United States they're

three times greater than the total

energy reserves of Saudi Arabia three

times across all forms so not just oil

if you oil not gas plus

coal if we actually go as Antonio said

towards an industrial policy that's

pro-energy where the incremental cost of

energy is effectively zero where we want

just a gross abundance of electrons

flowing in America for all the great

ideas that could pop up it is by

definition going to generate an enormous

amount of revenue for the federal

government and so I think having the

Sovereign wealth fund be the rainy day

fund if you will right that can Bank a

percentage of all of that I think starts

to do a lot of really good for the

long-term strategic guidance of the US

freberg what do you think here is this

something where we're making the

government too big and now we've got the

government competing with black rock and

seoa and Andre and harowitz and they're

going to be on the board of technology

companies and energy companies and

investing in it and then what happens

when you know Obama Biden Trump Bush you

get different people running these

things and then they want to do their

pet projects it seems to me like this

could be get awfully conflicted awfully

quick what do you think should this be a

business or government's in I think one

of the things the government sucks at is

capitalism so I wouldn't make capitalis

the Mandate of a sovereign wealth fund

certainly not when we have $4 trillion

of federal debt it doesn't make economic

sense our cost of capital is 5% that's

how much the interest is on this 10 to

30e debt right now so it's very hard to

actually make real risk adjusted returns

when our cost of capital is so high so I

don't think the Mandate should be hey

let's put a bunch of capital in a pool

go and invest it and try and make money

for the United States that seems silly

but my point about the government being

really bad at capital is is that the

United States government owns and has

access to and will acquire through other

means significant assets and resources

that should be monetized in a smarter

way and so I would kind of think about

the Sovereign wealth fund as being more

of a strategic vehicle for monetization

of high value government assets so for

example if Trump does actually negotiate

a 50% Equity position in Tik Tock us

that needs to sit somewhere it should

not sit in the department of whatever it

should sit with a capitalist manager

that then ultimately makes the decision

on when and how to monetize that asset

return that cash to the treasury and pay

down the debt similarly the US has large

amounts of land has access to other

large assets that get transferred in

seizures etc etc so you know I don't

know if you guys remember all this but

there was like bit Bitcoin seizures that

have happened over the years is the

government has cracked down on criminal

Enterprises then the government owns

this Bitcoin do you think the smartest

people are making the decisions on where

and how to sell down that Bitcoin I

guarantee you not I would much rather

have a capitalist making that decision

so I would view the you know the The

Sovereign wealth fund being less about

raise capital from other means in the

government which effectively means

borrowing money through treasuries

because of the the debt level we have

and trying to invest it and much more

being about okay what strategic assets

can the US government monetize and use

this as the mechanism for doing that and

then ultimately I think the objective

should be to return that capital I I do

think there's also an opportunity for

managing

Social Security in a smarter way so

Social Security's functionally going to

be bankrupt in eight years the way the

trust is set up the cash that's there

the assets that are there and the demand

on Social Security given the Aging

population and the rising payouts every

year so one of the other ways to think

about this is what are the long-term

debt obligations which is ultimately the

point of these Sovereign wealth funds

and can they be invest in a smarter way

why is the Social Security entities

ultimately owning you know 3% yielding

bonds when they could be owning interest

in in equities so I would kind of think

about that strategic pool of capital

being managed by this as well and less

about the Mandate of go be a capitalist

investor for the United States raise

money and make money I think leave that

to the markets but when it comes to

strategic assets I think this could be a

good vehicle for when the got shut down

yeah we seized 144,000 Bitcoin and

that's sitting somewhere in some

Department of Justice off yeah they sold

I I think they sold sold it yeah no I

think we still have it I think that was

like the idea was that was going to

become the Bitcoin Str Reserve I mean

you could also come up with the doj the

doj sells these so like who do you think

of the doj is making the Bitcoin Market

decisions and is that the right person

to be monetizing these assets I mean d

made an interesting point security I I

just want to follow up on which

is when when you think about social

security it's six uh $6 trli of our 36

TR debt and it's actually a fake

treasury bill so just to one of the

things we figured out in early days

before the inauguration I is like that 6

trillion dollar sits on The Ledger it's

just a paper Ledger over so actually if

it gets paid out it's also be very

inflationary it's just a fake treasury

got ledged over at that pays a very low

rate and here at valer with my partners

John shulin has been reading to try to

help the the only the only thing we find

that's audit in the government the the

Social Security Administration actually

has an audit it has an audit and when

you go through the audit it's crazy the

material weaknesses going by to Doge

that you find yeah it' be way better to

have that invested in a way that was

economic for people with real money by

way as for this guys as we're speaking

the federal judge just put a temporary

restraining order on Doge and has barred

Elon and his team from accessing US

Treasury payments data all right so now

we're gonna

have a real grudge match between the

public the Federal which judge was it

federal judge federal judge yeah would

you know why jamat do it say why no but

Elizabeth Warren is doing a Victory lap

so I'm sure that you

know she's part of it so the government

agency set up by the president can't

look at

the database of the treasury so just to

be u double click here

doge is not a new agency it's the

renaming of existing agency I can't

remember the name of it we def find it

Elon tweeted about this uh some weeks

ago

that was set up under Obama actually to

do this to accredit an audit function to

the government what's crazy about this

ruling to me is uh Congress basically is

the Constitution delegates to to the

executive the um the ability to spend

the money and they go through Congress

it gets actually appropriate in Congress

and the executive spends it how can you

spend money if you don't know where it

went I how can you be responsible right

you have the authority to spend it but

not the and how can you responsibly

spend it if you actually can't go look

and see where it goes guys this is

flying Fast and Furious president Trump

just unveiled his framework for his tax

plan no tax on tips no tax on senior

social security no tax on overtime pay

renew the middle class tax cuts adjust

the salt cap so again very Pro as I said

Pro labor Pro populist eliminate all

special tax breaks for billionaire

sports team owners oh all right I'm no

longer I already sold a team I already

sold my fees I already sold my fees

oops oops close the carried interest

close the carried interest tax deduction

loophole which allowed you to claim

carried interest as sorry

Antonio I better run oh no I'll be back

in a few hours it's sell some

things isn't that incredible I mean he

is really going for the jugular

wow amazing I support this 100% the Suk

deductions coming back is that right

marginally though I don't think he's

going to give it the way that it was

before but isn't this incredible I

mean how who's going to stand up and lay

on the railroad tracks for being able to

amortise a multi-billion dollar sports

team purchase or that when you make a

fund investment you should get long-term

kept gains treatment who is going to be

that person in this ad nobody's going to

stand up for these things I think we

should just stop doing Ventra and just

start NOS we just start a whole Rats

nness of NOS to ship money around you

could have an incubator yeah absolutely

incubator incubator come if you've got a

great idea for an NGO why why didn't you

launch launch in every single random

developing country in the world I mean

if I had known you would have had 8

billion of AUM because of a USA ID just

launch one in Vietnam and we could have

yeah I could launch go launch I love it

we we could have had a yeah a launch

accelerator in Vietnam for transgender

yeah the Jason calanis launch fun of

Equatorial

Guinea it is so crazy though to come out

and you know watching the Democrats just

the self-own of coming out and being

like we have to stop people from

stopping wasteful spend like they just

don't seem to understand how unpopular

these are kitchen table issues like Rah

said I mean everyone cares about that

and if you don't care about that if you

care about these Fring isues and not the

things people care about on the kitchen

table well and if you think about the

transgender Sports issue biological

males playing in female sports leagues

that issue that Trump just did an EO

yesterday for was such an obvious issue

of fairness and just has nothing to do

with transgender it just has to do with

like biology if a if a biological male

plays basketball on a on a a biological

female team some somebody's going to get

hurt and that person's going to score

100 points it's just obvious and the

fact that the Democrats couldn't see

that issue being 100% for or

95% makes no sense like it's just such

an obvious litus test of logic I mean

look man the Constitution is is a is a

document about fairness the people that

found this country the Patriots found

this country they they did it cuz they

treated unfilly at home all of us here

um are one generation away right or two

generations away from immigration and

the reality is that's why people come

here man it's it's unamerican it's un

amican deg we got two people here who

are immigrants yes I'm reading the TR

and it looks like this TR means

temporary restraining order and it and

it's actually Narrows who from Doge yeah

can get read access down to two people

Tom kuss and Marco

elz oh okay so they don't want to have

the whole team be able to see what's at

treasury they just to have a process and

some sign off okay that sounds not

unreasonable I just want to point out

two people to to look at no matter how

good they are I'm she we're at 24/7 look

at all the payments in the US government

is not a lot yeah it does seem like it

needs to be more than two but it doesn't

seem like they're saying you can't look

at it they just want to have some

controls in

place I mean feels to me like that's an

administrative block that's like the

narrowest thing you could do two okay

yeah you can come in but you can just

send two people and just these two

people so if they get sick or something

happens no one else comes in that seems

to me to be truly dis mystery block to

slow it

down yeah H well we're interpreting this

in real time the facts will come out

over time let's wrap up on uh Google

Google dropped 7% after reporting

earnings on Tuesday chath Revenue up 12%

year-over-year to 96.5 billion wow Cloud

revenue is up 30% year-over-year 12

billion YouTube ads surging 14% to 10.5

billion net profit was around 26.5

billion up 28% year-over-year so they

are really focusing on profitability

obviously full year numbers this is just

extraordinary total revenue 350 billion

with a 100 billion in net profit cloud

and YouTube finished 2024 with a

combined run rate of $110 Billion

YouTube is basically Netflix inside of

uh inside of Google and their Google

cloud is essentially AWS inside of

Google

the thing that made investors get

concerned shth is that Google said it

would invest 75 billion in capex in

2025 42% jump over 2024 29% more than

analysts expect obviously this has to do

with data center servers and the AI

buildout what do you think about that

number 75 billion obviously in relation

to what we saw with deep seek doing it

with maybe a little bit less maybe

they're lying is this just an

absolute waste of money or gargantuan

number or is it something they can

easily with that amount of profitability

and cash they have absorb and use in the

future I think I should stipulate that

Google's models are probably the best of

all the models across a broad base

of capabilities if you test for them and

so let's start there which is whatever

they're doing is working the thing that

they need to do is be able to translate

those models now into better

products and I think that that will

happen slowly like for example if you

look at Deep

research most of the people online that

are evaluating deep research would now

say that open AI is both faster and just

better on the margins all of these

things can be improved I don't think

that's a comment on the base model I

think it's a comment on post trining and

how they're attempting to productize

these things

so the other thing that Google has is a

money machine that directly benefits

from these Aid driven optimizations on

ad targeting the only other company that

has anywhere close to the same

credibility as meta so I think what both

of these two companies need to do is do

a better job of explaining how that 75

billion gets segregated how much of that

goes to these AI enabled models that

actually do better ads optimization

there was a there was a really

interesting discussion by a former meta

machine learning engineer on X about how

they did it it's pretty amazing it's

staggering but if they could say half

the money goes to that and the other

half goes to more speculative you know

pre-training and post training I think

the market would have eaten it up so

it's probably more of a disclosure issue

for Google because I would say right now

their model quality is the

best you have thoughts on this buildout

Antonio obviously I think you've been

involved with xai uh and obviously

involved with Twitter and X previously

and colossus's colossal buildout that

was EX to watch a period of time do you

have concerns that like some people do

that this build out is too expensive and

would be too hard to monetize all that

expense or is it uh maybe a little bit

of hand ringing and the opportunity in

AI is so obviously huge that you just

got to take the leap of faith and and

and if you build it the revenue will

come yeah I think chath has the right

framework here which is return invest of

capital and what he's saying by you know

if Google had said hey half the money is

for ad and half the money is for much

bued post training the market would have

seen that half the money has a higher

return of capital and goog's return of

capital is actually going up uh after

the impation of of AI models into their

into their company and I I think that

sort of abstracts the entire Market

which is people are waking up that

return invested capital in data s will

matter that the models are basic

Commodities and super competitive in the

best case it's kind of a a land worn

Asia it's a melee in in a worst case

just total Commodities what does matter

is the return on Capital data center

which is influenced by how good the data

centers are so you mention the X data

center it's 100,000 GP cluster it's the

most dense coherent cluster in the world

and it will just train faster and better

than other clusters and it's also built

for the most cheaply and the fastest so

XI will have the highest train on