There's a bunch of photos of Natalie

Harp smiling at him like that new movie

Obsession, you know, the new horror

movie that's coming out. She's standing

in the corner like smiling at him. I

swear to God [laughter] if you look at

these photos.

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Carara Swisser and I'm

kicking off another week of

Got Bree August.

Oh, he never gets sick of that. Yeah,

Scott is still away. I don't know where

he is. He has not been in touch, which

is a good sign or a bad sign. So, uh, I

think he's on some island. He might be

who knows where he is in some expensive

place. Um, so I brought on a co-host

Scott would approve of a young man. It's

Adam. No, no, that sounds weird. Okay,

>> it didn't sound weird till you said it

sounds weird. It was fine. Anyway, it's

Adam Mockler, Gen Z commentator and host

of the Adam Mockler show. Talk a little

bit about your background for people who

don't know.

>> First of all, I just want to say thanks

for having me on. I'm excited to

co-host. I really appreciate how you

guys do put attention on young male

issues, which is obviously what you were

getting towards. You guys talk about it

in a very unique way, and that means a

lot. I'm 23 years old and I'm building a

media company in Chicago. I've got a

team of five to six scrappy people. I do

a lot of debates and a lot of political

content online and I've just built this

over the past 2 to 3 years, but also

over the past decade or so. I I made my

YouTube channel when I was 9 years old

and I used to make Call of Duty videos.

You're 23. Okay.

>> I used to make these Call of Duty and

Minecraft videos. Many young people have

experiences where they would make like

these gaming videos and that kind of

sprouted into me doing political videos

when I graduated high school. I would go

to Trump rallies and debate the

supporters there and now it's turned

into this. Now I speak to some young

male issues, political issues.

>> Where did you go to college? Did you go

you went to college, correct?

>> Yes. And in Indiana for one year and

then I dropped out after going to

college for a year. It just it was too

much of a balance between

>> Zuckerberg. Little Mark Zuckerberg

action.

>> Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

People always say Charlie Kirk cuz he

dropped out too and did politics, but I

I don't know. I think Zuckerberg I like

that a little bit more. I like

>> use that one. What What is your hopes

and dreams of what you want to make? I

just want to make politics accessible

for a younger generation by, you know,

using the vehicles to my advantage, such

as short form content. Short form

content is a really powerful vehicle for

posting debate content and clips. And I

I just want to keep building my own

show, my own apparatus. I worked with

Midas Touch uh for a while and now I'm

building my own sort of machine on my

side. So my goal is to just keep scaling

and expanding and making politics

accessible,

>> right? Because it's been a lot less

expensive. I mean I hate to tell you but

I happen to be the OG of this met 10 a

decade two decades ago really when we

left the Wall Street Journal and it's

very exciting. It is you know one of the

things a lot of people who are doing

this like you are always like oh should

I leave I'm like yes like it's such an

an interesting time to do this. I find

independent media to be unique and you

probably found this as well because you

can build a quite nimble, fast-paced

team and you can scale almost infinitely

with content. Like there's always

another podcast to do or hit or

appearance or interview and then you can

post it on Facebook, on threads, on

YouTube. It's like there's so much you

can scale and you can have a really

tight nimble team as opposed to

mainstream media which there's like a

few different conglomerates that own it.

There's five layers of approval if you

want to ever post anything. It's a lot

more nimble in this space.

>> Yeah. I I was I always joke that I was a

bad employee and so I just left. But

what when when you when you're doing

this, you're funded, are you

self-funded?

>> Yep. I self fund. I reinvest the revenue

from YouTube back into the business.

>> Uhhuh. So YouTube is your principal

place to do this. Correct.

>> Yep.

>> Is there anywhere how do you look at

that? How do you think about that? Uh my

business model, I kind of look at it as

a pyramid where YouTube is my main

priority and then I trickle it down to

Facebook, Spotify, and the the

organizations that are like audio and

then it trickles down to short form

content on Instagram, Tik Tok, and

Twitter and all of those.

>> I tell this to people all the time.

YouTube is television for young is not

just for young people, by the way.

Everyone's like, "It's for young

people." I'm like, "Yeah, but it it's

not, you know, it's more from lots of

people." It's interesting if you look at

the change. There's more people watching

my show on tele on their TVs now. You

can see on the YouTube backend

analytics, there's more people watching

on their TV watch hour wise than on

their phone. So, it is the new

television and then I'm able to actually

go on TV and do these debates and

combine it with my YouTube. So, it's an

interesting model that we're building.

>> Well, one of the reasons I'm having your

I see you're very clever, but how do you

where do you look at your audience?

>> It's interesting. I actually have a

pretty diverse audience age- wise. I've

got a lot of people in the 40 to 60 age

range and of course a lot of people in

the 18 to 34 age range on different

platforms. I think there's a migration

happening from places like MS Now or

like some of the bigger networks to

digital media. And you see that in my

comment section. You see that from

people that said they're disillusioned

from mainstream media. Now, a lot of the

big media organizations are using people

online, online personalities in their

shows, and it's becoming really

symbiotic in a way. So, I think the

relationship will become more symbiotic.

Like we said, independent media allows

you to be so much more nimble with lower

overhead. I mean, I can have a scrappy

team of five people who are fresh out of

college and we all are growing together

while we invest a lot of our time into

this uh ecosystem. So, I think that I

think that there's a lot of mileage for

this independent media ecosystem. One of

the big questions is during the next

administration after Trump is gone out

of the spotlight, what kind of what's

the attention economy going to look

like, right? Like I think everybody is

asking the question about the attention

economy. And I think that honestly it's

probably a good thing for politics to be

boring. I'm not saying that that's a bad

thing, but the way the environment works

is going to be much different when

there's not a clown cabinet and a

constant train wreck to watch, you know.

>> Yeah. Trump has said that said it years

ago. I think Jeff Zucker even said it

like thank goodness for Trump is really

he is people do like the show

essentially. They liked his original

show. It is getting a little tired and

weird at this point. Um but one last

question. What do you worry about? What

do you think you have missing or what do

you worry about?

>> What I'm worrying about a lot like what

I think about most of the time is

longevity in the space is building

something that isn't just a quick blip

that rises and falls. I feel like there

are so many examples and I can't even

pull them off the top of my head because

they they fall in of people that that

have this infrastructure that they're

reliant on. They're reliant on one

single contract or one single gig rather

than building a long-term infrastructure

around them that they can own and rely

on. So, I'm thinking about longevity. I

mean, Bill Maher has had his show since

like the late 90s. Like, hasn't he had a

show since the early he's had it for 20,

30 years at this point. Different shows,

of course. Same thing with like John

Stewart. show, but different

>> these people have longevity in the space

and that's what I'm trying to build

towards a show or an infrastructure that

I can own rather than being reliant on

the next booker hitting me up, you know?

>> Right. Absolutely. That's a really smart

thing to think about. Are are you

worried about things like liable and

stuff like that?

>> Yeah. Well, yeah. I have a lawyer and I

we talk about it a lot and sometimes

with this political space I I have to

either title things or use like

outrageous sometimes titles and ways

that I frame things. But at the end of

the day, my reporting is pretty spot-on.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I don't

float conspiracy theories. I reject a

lot of the conspiracy theories that are

out there. Anything about Trump's fake

assassination attempts, I don't I think

they were real. I think the

assassination attempts were real. I

think the elections have not been

stolen. I'm not into conspiracy

theories. cuz I'm not into gossip or

rumors. I'm generally pretty on point.

Like like I made a video about Natalie

Harp and I relied on Maggie Haberman's

reporting from the New York Times. It

doesn't worry me. It's rather well

sourced.

>> Yeah. Right. Exactly. And of course, you

still have to rely on reporters, but

eventually you'll get into reporting.

We've got a lot to get to today, so

let's dig in. First, there's a growing

concern about the 5,000 sailors aboard

the USS Abraham Lincoln aircraft

carrier, which has now been deployed for

more than 250 days and hasn't made a

port call in at least 200 days. Military

families and lawmakers are sounding the

alarm about the food shortages,

contaminated water, and mental health

struggles. There's reports of multiple

attempts by uh crew members to jump

overboard. Defense Secretary Pete Hgs

has said concern about conditions on

board have been completely

misrepresented. And acting Navy

Secretary notes Lincoln's deployment was

extended because the mission demanded

it. The ship will soon be replaced by

the USS George Washington. Obviously,

it's complex and and and people push

back against Exad and President Donald

Trump. Let's hear what he said about the

Lincoln.

>> Family members of US service members are

concerned about the conditions on board

the USS.

>> Well, no. That ship is moving. No,

they're not. That ship is moving right

now or very shortly. And it's being

replaced with another very similar ship.

>> No, no, no, not nearly long enough.

>> So, uh, the that was something to say. I

think the families are very upset. Now,

also, Georgia Democratic John Osaf this

week had some thoughts on all of this

and Trump in general. Let's listen to

what he said at a rally on Sunday night.

>> And while the sailors on the Lincoln

fight his war

while he fruitlessly drains our

munitions and oil reserves, the

president sleeps through his meetings.

>> He golfs and trades stocks.

>> See, he doesn't want to do the job.

He wants to build his ballroom and

travel with Natalie on their apparently

defenseless flying palace gifted by the

Amir ofQar.

>> I just want to explain to listeners

Natalie is Natalie Harb, Trump's

personal aid, no also known as the human

printer. She's sort of his binky or

comfort blanket as Maggie Haberman you

speaking which recently put it. Natalie

was even with him in the catering cart

during his plain decoy operation last

month. Uh talk a little bit about these

stories. These are all like merging into

one story. Um, and also by the way,

Maggie talked about the the Secret

Service being nervous about Natalie Harp

and her love notes she leaves for Trump

all around his private spaces. Um, talk

a little about these stories. This is

bizarre on all levels, Adam.

>> Yeah, [clears throat] first of all, John

Oaf did a really good job of weaving

everything together there. I think he's

a really talented communicator. Natalie

Harp has been leaving a lot of these

weird notes for Donald Trump saying,

"You are all that matters to and she's

inseparable from him at a time when

Milani has kind of been missing from all

these public events. Honestly, putting

that aside for one second, I just want

to return to the the USS Abraham Lincoln

because this is wild to me. The war has

been going on for 170 days. These

sailors, many of whom were in their 20s,

like early 20s, have been trapped there

for hundreds and hundreds of days with

deteriorating conditions. It reminds me

a lot of the prior wars when I was

really really young in the mid-200s. The

same leaders, many of the same people

would go on TV and say that this will

make America more safe and protected in

the long term. And we had to watch as

these wars turned into grinding

counterinsurgencies, whether it's Iraq

or Afghanistan. We were told that we

were winning. They went out there and

they said, "We're winning. We killed the

bad guys. Saddam Hussein's dead." Then

it turned into a grinding

counterinsurgency that cost us trillions

of dollars. We are seeing the same thing

repeat. We have these leaders going out

on television claiming that this war is

being won, that their military is

destroyed. That's obviously not true. If

the military were destroyed from Iran,

then why is Trump still in danger? Why

are Trump and Natalie Harp in this

catering cart? Why is the straight of

moose closed? It's very clear that Iran

still has a chokeold over the region.

They still have enough of a military to

close the straight of Hormuz, and it's

not making us safer. I think there's a

really strong parallel to be drawn that

a lot of millennials or a lot of people

in my generation, especially people of

your generation, have seen play out over

the years. Being in the Middle East

doesn't just make us more safe because

we're in the Middle East. We have to be

getting political concessions from the

country. So, sorry. All of this is to

say that we're not getting any political

concessions out of this war. Trump is

more focused on hanging out with Natalie

Harp and Americans are struggling right

now. It's bad. The USS Abraham Lincoln

has 20-year-olds. Do young people think

about this ship and what's do these

stories break through?

>> The war is absolutely breaking through.

It's a pretty big promise that you can't

ignore or avoid. It's a complete 180

from what he said on the campaign which

was no new wars. And that really bothers

a lot of young people. You can see it in

the way that it manifests on like Joe

Rogan's podcast or Theo Vaughn. Theo

Von's a comedian who's not even MAGA.

People always try to ascribe these

beliefs. He's just a dude who kind of

pays attention to the news when when

it's there. And when it comes to Iran,

he keeps saying that this is a illegal

war. It's a war of aggression, that it's

not right. Joe Rogan has echoed similar

thoughts about us being stuck. I think

the broad populace of young people and

these figures don't like this same war

because of what I just said, the the

echoes of the prior wars in the mid

2000s.

>> Absolutely. One of the things that's

really interesting is I've noticed both

my sons very much focused on it and

they're between your age, one is 21, one

is 24. Um, and this is at the top of

mind for them, but this seems to have

resonated in a way that a lot of news

stories haven't. I don't I'm not they're

aware of the Natalie Harp of it all, but

I think they were super offended by the

way they talked about these families.

Uh, my dad was in the military and was

in in the Navy and I was offended for

these families. What has to occur here?

And what do why do you imagine this is

the way Trump is handling it?

>> I think that he's kind of cornered right

now. He's trapped himself and he's

trying to negotiate with the carrot.

He's trying to entice them via

negotiations and use the carrot. It's

not working. And then he's trying to use

the stick and bomb them over and over

and that's not working. So, he's

cornered himself to a point he's

entirely trying to reject this idea that

he's cornered. And it does break through

to young people. It's just such a

brazen, broken promise. I also want to

point out we're going to spend hundreds

of billions of dollars on this. We

already spend $1 trillion per year on

the interest of our national debt just

to service our debt. We spend $1

trillion per year. It's one of the most

expensive line items that we that we

have in our country. Like my generation,

your son's generation, we're going to

have to bear the brunt of all of this

debt that is accumulating right now. And

I again, I think the most offensive part

is the way that Trump and the people

around him are lying about it so

brazenly, acting like it's not existing,

trying to blind themselves. They have

people like Caroline Levit, even the

Scott Jennings of it all going out there

and trying to say that that there's

nothing wrong, that we're winning this

war. It's a really sickening lie.

>> Is it an out of touch thing? Is it an

age thing? What do you how when you

listen to them or is it just they're

just good at lying?

>> They're just trying to tow the party

line. You know how when we ask any

Republican who won the 2020 election,

they have that line that they run.

They're like some of them. They're like

most most of them uh that they're trying

to become a cabinet member say this.

They're like Joe Biden was right was

certified. They have this weird way they

go around it. I think they have to tow

the party line and they have to hold

faith in the Iran war. But one more

time, it started 170 days ago. What do

they say four to six weeks at the

beginning of this?

>> Yes, they did. And I was with actually a

pretty prominent Republican senator. He

goes, "If this is more than two weeks,

Cara, everything's fucked." And I was

like I just I text him. I'm like, "It's

more than two weeks.

>> It's pretty bad now." Did you see the

Chris Christie clip where he said that

Trump is is going to be Jimmy Carter?

that Iran Iran learned one lesson from

the Jimmy Carter debacle that you can

hold something hostage and if you do it

for long enough it begins to look bad

for the president every single day.

>> Oh, it's his biggest favor. I was with a

pretty prominent uh foreign affairs.

This is like they they were talking

about the the the attempts by Iran to

kill him and they're like why would

they? He's doing he's he's good for them

like in terms of giving them a lot of

cover and inability to just make exactly

what you're talking about Jimmy G. He's

being Jimmy Carter. Does the Deli Harp

story get a lot of resonance? It seems a

little purant but at the same time it's

weird and she's right there like all the

times.

>> Um yeah, people find it very interesting

combined with the fact that Melania is

also gone. I mean, listen, Melania is

clearly not enjoying this. And I'm not

going to speculate on like what Trump

and Natalie Harp are doing, but Natalie

Harp has been obsessed with him for

years. I found this uh thread from

Decoding Fox News, a Twitter account,

and they point out that Natalie Harp on

O used to sign off her show by quoting

the Bible, and sometimes she would quote

Trump in lie of the Bible. So, she would

either quote Trump or quote the Bible

back in 2020, 2021. She's been obsessed

with him for a while. And the more I

cover it, the more people are rather

interested in this weird note passing

that's happening back and forth.

Apparently, the Secret Service, as you

mentioned out, said this was sort of a

security concern, there's a bunch of

photos of Natalie Harp smiling at him,

like that new movie Obsession. You know,

the new horror movie that's coming out,

she's standing in the corner like

smiling at him. I swear to God, if you

look at these photos,

>> explain obsession. Explain obsession.

>> It's like it's like a curse. It's like a

horror movie where a guy wishes that his

girlfriend is obsessed with him and then

it turns into a curse where she's really

creepily obsessed with him. And that's

Natalie Harp all. That movie doesn't end

well. Anyway, Adam, let's go on a quick

break. We come back, press secretary

Karen Levit steps down. [music]

>> This is advertiser content from Harvey

AI. We have a choice over who we work

with and who we don't. Specifically, who

we allow to advertise and who we don't.

And for those of you who watch my

content, I am not an AI catastrophist.

I'm an AI optimist. I think it's going

to create more jobs [music] than it

destroys. And I think our job as

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more than almost anything I do in terms

of what I could point to for real

economic leverage and savings is [music]

100% in the legal fields. Harvey is the

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now I'm looking at their demo. It plugs

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But it also can do this in a shared

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So they both have visibility into the

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is uh it's going to be super helpful not

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companies. Harvey is AI tailored for

law. You can learn more at harvey.ai.

>> Adam, we're back. Uh, who will replace

press secretary Carolyn Levid? As was

recording, we don't know. Trump

announced last week that Levid is

stepping down at the end of the month to

spend more time with her family. She

just had her second kid. Some of the

rumored candidates to replace Levan

include Trump's former personal lawyer,

Alina Haba, who was with him at his

dancing to YMCA at the club in New

Jersey recently. his daughter-in-law,

uh, Larara Trump and political

commentator Scott Jennings, your best

friend. Um, uh, I I'll mention that

after, but Scott was asked about this on

CNN. Let's listen to what he said.

>> Scott,

>> who should replace Caroline Love it?

Obviously, she is, uh, stepping down

>> and are you throwing your hat?

>> Who do you think? Who do you Yeah. Well,

first of all, you're throwing your hat

in the ring. And

>> will you serve, Scott? Answer the

question. [laughter]

>> No. Look,

>> answer the question. I I don't know. But

I'll tell you this, Caroline Levit has

been maybe the greatest White House

press secretary in the last 30 years at

least. She's been nothing short of

brilliant. She's done it while raising a

young family. I think it's great that

she's going to go spend time with her

family, but I don't know a single

Republican in the country who isn't in

awe of and in appreciation of Caroline

tonight. So, Godspeed on your journey

back to your family. You've done a great

job.

>> Do you want the job or not?

>> Let me help Scott. Democrats are afraid

of Scott Jennings becoming press

secretary.

>> [laughter]

>> There you go.

>> Okay. So, explain. Um I I want to remind

people before we get into this. You have

a little history with Scott Jennings.

This was so sweet. Let's listen to a

clip.

>> Scott Jennings is more than happy to

defend a war with a country that starts

with the letters IRA that we [laughter]

are currently failing. That is going to

put us trillions and trillions of

dollars more in debt. I was only a few

years old while you were in the

administration defending prior endless

wars. Now, this war is failing.

>> 8 weeks is endless to you.

>> Okay. You said it was going to be four

weeks. You have the attention span of a

net. I debated you on TV four to 6 weeks

ago when you said we were weeks away

from it. Now you're making condescending

remarks because you can't defend the

fact that this war is not going your

way. Wait one more time.

One political concession one political

concession. Yeah. Get your [ __ ] hand

out myself. Uh that got a lot of

attention. So talk a little bit about

that first and then the press

secretary's job. Is it does it matter uh

one way or the other if Scott Jennings

goes there or any of these other names

we've mentioned? I mean, I think that

Scott Jennings would make a perfect

press secretary from all of my past

interactions with him. Unfortunately,

it's it's probably too much of a pay cut

uh because he likes doing the media

stuff where he's always towing the line,

but he's really built up a unique talent

that I respect in constantly graveling

at Donald Trump's feet, constantly

making sure he's towing the party line

and kind of pivoting around questions.

Even in that clip that you just played

right there, you see how he very quickly

brushes off the actual question and goes

in to trying to sanewash and whitewash

all of Caroline Levit's history. If she

was doing such a good job over the past

16 months, Donald Trump's approval

rating wouldn't be underwater across

every single sector, both immigration

domestically, immigration at the border,

immigration overall with ICE, the

economy, everything. When it comes to

Scott Jennings, I mean, I I I can

explain how that clip came to be. It was

the Iran war putting so much pressure on

him. Let me reword that. Him putting

pressure on himself because he kept

lying about the Iran war week after week

after week and we blew through the

timeline. I was sitting next to him on

these panels and he was saying this was

going to be a 4 to 6 week timeline,

right? 4 to 6 week war. We blew through

that and then it was seven to eight

weeks, then nine to 10 weeks. Then we

were 12 weeks in. And I would probably

feel a lot of pressure too if I were the

one who had to keep lying about this

war. So, as I point out, he'll lie about

any war that starts with the letters I

A. And I really do think he had cornered

himself and felt the pressure in that

moment. There's like there's something

weirdly fragile and not masculine about

constantly trying to dish it out and be

condescending on these panels, but then

the moment someone tries to reciprocate

and at least like press you on

something, you freak the hell out.

There's something really fragile and

like hypocritical about that in my

opinion.

>> Why? What? What in that moment? What was

you handled it really rather well and

you you didn't have your hand in his

face. Let's be clear. That was so

strange. I was like, what are you

talking about? like and he actually got

physical. I I've noticed a lot

interesting a lot of physicality when

RFK interviewed Dana Bash was was

interviewed by Dana Bash. he got he was

moving forward to it's very strange and

weird and you're right it's I wouldn't

say non-masculine n it's something weird

it's something else that's very str it's

a very strange reaction to what I

thought was a legitimate point you were

making and you know you're very good at

debate so that probably irked him you

know you probably are irk to him in some

way

>> like the the reality of it is I had been

on multiple panels with him in the weeks

prior talking about the Iran war and

every single time I don't play the game

that he plays. Like he plays this game

where he's able to lie and dodge and

weave on the panel and then everyone

kind of collectively moves on. And it's

fine. I I get it. There's only so much

time in the show. It's like it's just

it's part of the show. But sometimes I'm

like, "Wait a minute. I genuinely don't

want to move on from this guy weaving

around this right now." So I pressed him

on it and I pressed him on it and he

didn't have an answer. I I think that uh

that you could just admit the Iran war

is failing and it would be much easier

than blowing up and doing that to

yourself.

>> Mhm. So, him leaving to be press

secretary, thoughts?

>> I I don't know. I don't think it's going

to happen. I mean, I wouldn't be

surprised if he's probably floating his

own name just to create the headlines

and the buzz.

>> I think he's being considered. I do I I

believe that to be true. I do think

you're right. He likes media attention

in

>> I guess the question would be what's the

upside versus downside. The downside is

that you have to constantly be a part of

these clips where the media are trying

to pin you down and press you and we saw

right there he doesn't have the temper

at this very moment. I don't know what's

going on with him. He just doesn't have

the temper. On the other side of that,

he probably takes a pay cut as well. So

there's a lot of downside. What's the

upside? You become like a figure and

then usually you become a media figure

after he's already a media figure. I

just I don't see the calculation of

becoming the press secretary.

>> Yeah. He doesn't want to go right to

Dancing with the Stars like Sean Spicer.

But one of the things that it it's I I'm

like there's no plus to being on Nero's

barge at the last part of it. That to me

and Scott is smart enough to do that.

>> He's making more money for doing the

same thing basically.

>> So who would make a good uh uh one of

these people? Is there another person

you're not think we're not thinking of?

>> I'd have to think about it. I mean

anyone in the Trump orbit who is

well-versed. I wouldn't be surprised if

he puts like [sighs]

one of his ex- lawyers like Alina Haba

could work. Um, I saw a clip of Natalie

Harp when she was an OA anchor. That

would not work. She was not very good.

She was doing like a discount Tucker

Carlson.

>> Scott Jennings would be really good, but

like I said, there's too much downside.

I good in like a infuriating way. Who

Who do you think Who do you think is at

the top of the list?

>> I think probably it's Alina Haba. She

was sitting there kissing his ass, you

know? I just I think she doesn't have a

lot of choices and I don't think she's a

lot of financial choices either.

>> Is she going to be good at that job? You

think

>> I It doesn't Does it matter? I mean,

does it matter? does I mean Karen Levit

is good at it except you're I think you

make the salient point his polls are

going down so it's not she's not that

good like ultimately if she's the

probably she got a lot of pressure

apparently she was yelled at quite a bit

by him constantly

>> she was a little bit too obviously good

at lying it's like a bad episode of the

boys

>> yeah it'll be interesting to see where

she goes the reason they made her a

senior advisor outside adviser is

because of uh she gets protected in

executive privile the way he said it she

you know they're all going to

The other thing is Scott doesn't want to

need a a pardon, right? That's the

problem. Like they all are going to need

a pardon. And I don't think you can give

blanket pardons to that many people.

Maybe you can. He probably could. Um but

I I think there's a doubt. I think it

hardly matters now after the midterms.

Like that's going to be a shitty [ __ ]

job uh for whoever it is. It seems to me

>> Caroline got it at the right time.

>> Yes, she really is. She's a very cany

that way. So let's move to the

Democrats. They've officially signed off

on a new presidential primary calendar

for 2028. South Carolina and Nevada are

now first, replacing Iowa and New

Hampshire as the top two. The change

moves more racially diverse states to

the front of the calendar. DNC Chair Ken

Martin says the new calendar will battle

test our nominee, putting them in the

strongest possible position to win back

the White House. Talk about the

calendar. I've heard a lot about this in

which candidates it helps and it hurts.

It probably helps Kala Harris um in some

ways and and others, but talk a little

bit about because she's a known quantity

down there. Talk a little bit about this

shift.

>> Yeah, so obviously folks in Iowa will be

disappointed. That was a huge state in

the in the process for a while. Even in

the Obama race that Iowa was like a huge

turn, so people there are going to be

upset. I went to a lot of the Iowa

primary rallies in the Iowa State Fair a

few years back. I'll miss it myself, but

from my understanding, it's pretty

simple. It's meant to empower and give

more weight to black and Latino voters.

There's a very big labor presence in the

state of Nevada, which will be one of

the earliest states. And I think the

Democratic party is really trying to

move in that direction. And overall,

there's just a lot of distrust in the

current establishment. You have to

remember in of course you remember, I'm

just saying you have to remember in 2020

the Iowa caucuses didn't really go too

smoothly and Pete Buddha Judge's

campaign had a lot of problems. The app

had a lot of problems. This comes at a

time when you see uh the DNC not

bringing in a lot of money which is

interestingly because individual

candidates are bringing in a lot of

money. If you look at the DNC it's

really struggling as an apparatus but

people like James Terico and John Oaf

are outraising their opponent.

>> They are indeed.

>> Terrio has raised $72 million or

something. So there is energy but not

for the establishment if that makes

sense.

>> Yeah. And so what who does this put in a

position for the for the nominees?

>> You rightfully pointed out that Kla

Harris will do well. Um again, there's a

strong labor presence in Nevada. So it

might not be the candidates that people

think. When I think of a strong labor

presence and who people like that vote

for, it's not always inherently the more

progressive candidate, which kind of

breaks the archetype of a lot of people

think. So I could see Kamla doing well.

I could see if somebody like John Oaf

ran doing very very well. I'm a big fan

of him lately. Like you played that clip

of him. He's just so good at

communicating.

>> Atlanta, he's vehemently rejecting the

idea that he's going to run. Is that is

is like a game? Like do they just say

that they're not going to run or

>> I don't know. I don't know. I think he

can't say anything because he's running

for his office. Of course. Yeah.

>> So if he's like of course I am then the

citizens of Georgia are like [ __ ] you.

Like you know he can't he's got to be

vehement. And then he was like, "Oh, as

as I began to hear people, I understood

that my my future has to be with how he

sounds like something like that. This is

in the head. This isn't these these

people wake up every morning and as

Scott says, saying, "Hello, Mr.

President." They just do. Come on. Like,

stop it. Um, but I I I don't know who

would do well in Nevada. I mean, there

it'd be interesting if AOC runs. There's

all manner of people who have appealing

in different states. I think it also

goes to show where the Democratic party

is trying to move back to. We lost a lot

of ground with the Latino vote in 2024.

Like a surprising amount of ground and

now it's immediately shifted back very

much so like a rubber band where Trump's

ICE uh raids like he s he sends ICE

surgically and intentionally into these

majority Latino communities in order to

intimidate and terrorize them and then

wonders why Latino communities are

moving far away from him again. So, I

think Democrats could really make a

move, realign a lot of the demographics

again. Uh, we just need a strong

candidate. It's going to be a really

interesting ideological primary.

>> Yeah. All right. Speaking of

ideological, before we get to 2028, we

got to get through the midterms. In

Michigan, Democrat Abdul Elsad is

trailing Republican Mike Rogers by four

points in the first poll, although it's

up and down. Like, poly market is a

different thing. Palio I don't always

rely on them. By the way, you've

reshared some polling numbers the other

day on the Senate race in Kansas showing

Democrat uh Adam Hamilton just one point

behind Republican incumbent Roger

Marshall, which is a big deal. And you

said uh the blue wave is here. Careful

with the waves as they say. So what's

your latest prediction on the midterms

Senate and House and how the Democratic

anti-establishment aggressive movements

factor in?

>> A lot of my tweets are just formulated

to be as simple as possible. So that's

usually why I'm very reductive on

Twitter. But um listen,

>> the best way to be.

>> It's Yeah. Yeah. Listen, so I think that

at the end of the day,

>> people want change in the Democratic

party. It's that simple. Like Democratic

voters aren't reading marks and turning

far left. People want change. They don't

want the establishment. And that's

leading to more and more um you know,

progressive candidates winning. They can

use social media in a more savvy and

nimble way and have these newer

platforms. I think that we're in a good

spot to take over the house come the

midterms. Uh KHI and poly market, like

you said, it's not the best indicator,

but there's a lot of there's millions of

dollars [ __ ] up on Franchesca Hong.

>> Oh, it's bad. It's bad sometimes.

There's millions of dollars flowing into

some of these markets and right now it

seems like Democrats have a good shot at

winning the House in the midterms and

the Senate is up for grabs. I want to

point out with the House, we're already

at a fivepoint inherent disadvantage due

to the redistricting that Republicans

did. This radical midcycle redistricting

put us at a five-point disadvantage, so

we have to fight back there. But I think

Democrats are in a really good position.

We have a lot of strong candidates. I

I'm not really trustworthy of the poll.

I'm not trusting the polling right now,

nor the betting markets because they

effed up with Hong really badly. At the

end of the day, Democrats are in a good

position for the midterms. Democrats

want change and Abdul Aliad is a really

strong candidate in my opinion. And like

people keep saying that he's an example

of these like lefty progressive DSA

members, but he's not even DSA. He's a

self-described free market guy who likes

entrepreneurialism. He likes small

businesses. I think there's a really

strong accessible version of, you know,

liberalism there.

>> Well, it's interesting because there's

two I have a friend who's from Michigan

and he said all his relatives and he's a

he's not progressive. He's a Democrat.

He's a solid Democrat can't vote for

him. like he won't they these are sort

of suburban kind of people and they're

going to vote with their noses held for

Rogers which I cannot believe they would

do that.

>> Wow.

>> Uh I know and I was this is a longtime

Michiganer. Uh and I was like huh

interesting. Then again my son who lives

in Michigan and all his frat bro friends

are voting for Elsai and and they did in

in the in the in the election over Haley

Stevens and war was the issue. issues of

the uh Apac was certainly an issue for

them. Um there was a bunch of others and

I'm like which one is going to win here?

Like it was really but they're very

committed to him and I wouldn't call my

son even slightly liberal. He's not.

It's a really interesting thing. I think

people don't know. It's a question of

how well this guy can because if he if

he chokes and doesn't win he'll and he

costs the Senate by one Z that'll make

him sort of widely reviled. And if he

does, then it's what? What does it say?

>> Yeah. Well, first of all, I think that

there's still a few months left of the

campaign, and we just got out of a

primary where there were $60 million

spent against Abdul, like negative

spending against his character and his

past and his policy. So, right now, Mike

Rogers on the other side didn't really

have a very competitive primary where

there were negative ads against him. I

hope at this point a lot of money begins

to flow in to the negative advertising

against Mike Rogers. and Abdul El Sayad

is able to consolidate some of the base,

but I've heard similar concerns out of

people that are voting in Michigan.

People are concerned about him. I hope

that as the general goes on, he's able

to make a stronger case and able to

continue to captivate Michigan voters,

>> right? They're sort of attacking him.

The Trump terrorist, communist.

>> Yeah. No, I mean, they're they're

overstepping. Listen, like a a really

hard, divisive Democratic primary is

always going to splinter part of the

base. I'm sure people got some crazy ads

about Abdul coming from Haley Stevens

campaign, but now we're going to

consolidate. Mike Rogers is going to

have so many ads going against him, and

this guy's got a wild past that they're

going to keep highlighting. If Abdul

wins, first of all, if Abdul loses, it's

going to broadly be a rebuke of not him

personally, but this more progressive

strand of politics. He's not even DSA,

but he does represent a new wave of

insurgent candidates. if he wins, I

think it'll only further embolden that

sort of movement. I I personally hope

it's not the DSA taking over with their

candidates. I hope it's a more

progressive, pragmatic, liberal view of

people who want to redistribute wealth.

That's fine. Uh a higher minimum wage

and more healthcare is fine. I'm not for

some of the more farther left DSA ideas.

>> Well, he is not, as you point out, he's

not in the DSA. He's not either. There's

there's been a call for him to not stick

with the Hassan [ __ ] another, you

know, political pundit who, by the way,

may be suing Scott Jennings for

defamation and correctly so because

those clips were really manipulative, I

would say. Uh, he said a lot of he says,

look, he's clearly narcissistic and says

a lot of like inflammatory things, but

that he he should go move forward with

anything that he feels was manipulated.

But should should al say um

separate from him?

>> Listen, Hassan says things I disagree

with too, but that Scott Jennings clip

was over the pale. It was like the most

maliciously clipped up series of events

ever.

>> Yeah, I went back and watched all the

real thing and I was like, this is

>> I mean, he's like reading comments out

of chat or whatever and then they're

taking that out of context.

>> I think he didn't know. I think [ __ ]

said this. I think Scott was not aware

of what Hassan was doing, which is

>> that's even that's even worse. You got

to be more stupidity is not is not a

defense, but go ahead.

>> You got to he's got to be more media

might be offense. Yeah,

>> it might [clears throat] maybe if it's

not malicious and I'm not sure, but I

think that when it comes to Assan [ __ ]

Abdul, there doesn't need to be a

disavowel. I think that's fruitless and

I think it's just conceding to these

right-wing frameworks. I genuinely think

that Donald Trump surrounds himself with

people that are just as like radical as

per on a daily basis. the way that

Steven Miller is always screaming and

frothing at the mouth on Fox News every

single week. I I mean, Donald Trump

surrounds himself in campaigns with many

extremist radical people. The Republican

party is like uniting around Max Miller

after he allegedly broke his 2-year-old

collar bone. Um, I'm not trying to

compare any of that to matter for

>> I'm just saying that the Republican

party holds themselves to one standard

and then holds Abdul Aliad to this

impossibly high guilt by association

standard. No, we shouldn't disavow it.

Keep campaigning. Keep moving forward.

Keep laser focused on Mike Rogers. I'd

say that's my framework.

>> That's your framework. Yeah. Um uh it's

by the way it's say I mispronounced it a

second ago. In any case, we'll see what

happens. You you feel like he could win

if he if he got through to voters in a

more even with the attacks that are

coming from the Republicans.

>> I'd like to think so. Yeah. I mean,

listen, Michigan is a purple state. It's

a swing state and right now he's a more

progressive candidate than we've run in

that state in a while. Again, there was

just $60 million of pretty negative

spending directed at him. So now he has

the chance to put Mike Rogers on his

back foot and spend against Rogers. It's

definitely possible. The polling has

been a bit misleading lately, but I

guess the rebuttal to that is it's been

it's been overestimating the progressive

candidates. So, we just have to see what

happens. Mike Rogers has some skeletons

in his closet. So,

>> yeah. All right, Adam, let's go on a

quick break. When we come back, will

President Trump help the Tate brothers?

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>> Adam, we're back with more news.

Supporters of Andrew and Tristan Tate

want want them freed. Many gathered

outside the Miami Federal Detention

Center chanting for their release and

even doing group push-ups. The brothers

have been in federal custody since July

18th as they fight extradition in the UK

uh where they face charges including

rape and sex trafficking. Tate's

attorney has said that if the judge

doesn't agree the brothers are innocent,

they will go straight to President

Trump's office. Um, what is the groups

doing push-ups? I don't even begin to

understand, but I I actually don't want

to understand. Um, will Trump end up

intervening here?

>> I don't think he'll intervene in this

case because he already did in February

of 2025, January, February, and it

didn't really go too well for them. I've

been doing a lot of coverage on this,

but back in 2025, early 2025, uh the

Tape brothers were being invested by the

UK and by Romania. There was a travel

ban. They weren't allowed to leave

Romania during this investigation. And

members of the Trump administration

specifically asked Romania to lift this

travel ban so the Tate brothers could

leave during this investigation. Baron

Trump is reportedly very good friends

with Andrew Tate and talks to him on the

phone. And Paul and Gracia was one of

Tate's lawyers and he now works in the

Trump admin and has been lobbying for

the Tate brothers to be freed for the

investigation to be dropped. You might

remember Paul and Gracia from his leaked

text about a year ago. He's the one that

said he has a Nazi streak in him. So

just some some real great gems in the

Trump administration advocating for some

real great people. The Tate brothers,

they very insidiously would manipulate

and abuse and basically traffic women

who were in very bad positions in their

lives. Coers them into doing webcam

modeling by acting like he was in love

with them, then intensely intentionally

isolating them from their family members

and from their hometown and making sure

they had nowhere to go.

>> Yeah, this is an extensive Law and Order

special vist unit.

>> It's wild. It's wild. And like they

allegedly would skim 95% of the profits

off the top and just pay the women

nothing and then spread rumors about

them in their family and their hometown.

So the women had nowhere to go. It was

awful. Then he would go brag about this

and poison the minds of young men in my

generation. Sorry that's a lot right

there. But I'm passionate about this

case right here.

>> No, I know. I listen my sons both we

both had long discussions about Andrew

Tate and uh initially it was attractive.

It absolutely was to a lot of people

the, you know, the be your own man, that

kind of stuff. But soon turn them off

pretty quickly. But I remember early I

was like, I think these guys are really

toxic pieces of [ __ ] kids. But you watch

them and you you make your own decisions

here. But this is my take as your mom.

>> It's like attractive in the way that

some of Nick Fuentes clips are

attractive. And I know that sounds

controversial, but like

>> it's not. I get

>> it's like a guilty pleasure for a lot of

people. It's like I'm not supposed to be

playing this video game. I'm not

supposed to be playing this at midnight.

I'm It's even more fun because I'm So

whenever I see a

>> Nick with Marjorie Taylor Green, you're

like, "Oh, exactly. Still terrible."

>> And then there's some sort of allure to

it. But the reality is Andrew Tate is

somebody who's uniquely awful because

he's like living the worst stuff that

he's speaking out loud. Some of these

people are just fakers. They they're

playing. They're role playing. They're

acting like they're these big tough guys

who like do the sh They don't actually

do anything. Andrew and Tristan Tate

built an empire based off of

manipulating and allegedly trafficking

women in multiple different countries.

And now I have friends like reposting

their reels because they're slightly

funny or whatever. It's

>> so so what happens? Trump is not good.

There's no plus for Trump to do

anything.

>> No, it's No, especially through the

Epstein stuff,

>> right? Yeah. It's related to Epstein.

Yeah. I mean, it's it's all related to

each other. But my I have he might

that's my feeling. He might

>> he could. So, the Tate Brothers lawyer,

Joe McBride, has been trying to get a

hold of Trump or Marco Rubio because

Marco Rubio is the one that's in charge

of extraditions. Marco Rubio said he

wants nothing to do with it, but at the

end of the day,

I don't know. I think that Donald Trump

did it in the first time in an attempt

to court these younger male voters.

Andrew Tate and Tristan Tate's lawyer

has been saying that if Trump doesn't

allow them to be released, he's going to

tell all their young fans never to vote

for Republicans again. So, they're kind

of like dangling it as leverage over

Trump and the Republican party. I think

he would have to be pretty dumb to do

it. Like, after all the Epstein saga,

this would be very bad PR, but he he

does stuff like that all the time. Then

Scott Jennings has to defend it. Imagine

that.

>> Yeah, I know, right? Even even he did

not defend the I don't I recall that he

didn't give a [ __ ] break here but a

great like anyway. [clears throat] All

right, Adam, one more quick break. We'll

be back for wins and fails.

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>> Okay, Adam, let's hear some wins and

fails. Why don't you go first? Okay. So,

I I'll start with the fail. I got I did

a 7-day trip to a few different cities,

multiple different hotels, and I lost my

car keys at some point in that 7-day

trip. And I flew back to O'Hare airport,

and my car was stuck in the parking

garage. No keys, nothing. Really bad

situation.

>> Really bad situation to be in. You know,

I'm only human. And yes, I am like a

young I'm in early 20s. I'm just like

this. I can be aloof. I can be aloof.

The win is that we've just been hiring

and training our new assistant over the

past month and I asked him if he could

do a favor for me. So, he drove to

O'Hare airport. Found a locksmith, got

the key, and my car is now back. So, the

win and the fail are a bit connected.

Um,

>> what kind of car do you have, Adam?

>> It's uh Buick. It's

>> You know, some of these cars you can

open with an app. May May I help you as

>> Oh, really?

>> Yes. When I lose my keys or leave them

in the car, you can open them with an

app. I believe all new cars you can do

that with just now.

>> That's actually a really good That's a

really good show. Did your son teach you

that?

>> No, I taught. Are you kidding? Hello.

Sorry. No, I wasn't supposed

>> I don't need help with tech, my friend.

I just I teach my sons that. No, my son

dropped his credit card out of his

pocket when he was ice climbing. I could

have killed him and like it went down to

the canyon and I I've had to replace so

many credit cards from my son who drops

credit cards. I'm not giving them

anymore. I'm like get it on your phone

and that's the end.

>> No, I drop them too. They make them too

easy to replace. It almost incentivizes

you to be like it's not a big deal.

>> You can do you can get into houses. You

don't need keys anymore.

>> Let's hear your wind fail.

>> My fail today is Jason Arde. And

actually, I'm going to link it with

Hayden Paniter. Um I think she's Let me

start with her backwards. She's just

died. She's 36 years old. Wonderful

actor. Um just a lovely presence. She

wrote a memoir recently, very clear,

showing her struggles with postpartum

depression, drinking, etc. Uh there was

there's sort of this heinous uh

Neutrogena dumped her for talking about

that. Um I just it's such a sad

situation. We don't know what happened

to her, but it could be problematic,

let's just say. And it's just sad. And

one of the things she talked about was

the relentless attacks of the media on

her as a young woman. and she couldn't

believe how much she'd been attacked and

and as a as a you know an attractive

young woman and talked about it and the

toll it took on her and I get

celebrities not easy but um uh but it

was really she did in a way that was

really ugly and was not unable to

sustain it in a lot of ways and it

affected her. I'll connect this to Jason

Arde who was the youngest black

professor at Cambridge in the UK and he

was found dead late last week and he uh

he was under a lot of pressure because

of plagiarism allegations but the pylon

and we can debate all the nuance there's

a very good Atlantic story that debates

the nuance of maybe he was doing things

taking shortcuts at this point I don't

really care because there's a lot of

white academics who get out very easily

compared to this guy the attention that

this guy got was so out of out of size

in Britain. The attacks on this guy were

so oversized of his alleged crime uh of

plagiarism and and some other falsehoods

that he might have told. It it doesn't

mean you don't care about those things

and accountability and academia, etc.,

etc., But the the the the overwhelming

ability of social media and the press,

in this case, I blame the media for both

of these um of of just not knowing when

to stop with with this kind of stuff is

really disturbing in every and I think

we all participate in it. Um but the

ugliness that you see here, especially

uh with both of them and Jason more

recently, is really quite something has

to shift in the way we cover things. I

doubt it will. It's been going on

forever when their tabloids have been

here for a long time, but it's gotten

amplified and uglified in a way that's

gross and everyone uh who was a part of

this should feel some regret and

responsibility. I'm not sure they will.

Um I I feel I their families, it's just

so unnecessary what's happened in these

cases um that contributed this kind of

thing. I'm going to do an opposite one

that's that's different. I've been

watching the D23 stuff. Um, I don't know

if you are a child of Disney, but my

kids, my I have two younger kids too

watch Disney. My older kids watch

Disney, and they're doing this amazing

uh gathering of all these different

Disney products. And I have to say, it's

the most entertaining thing. And it's

not just a, you know, it's a showcase

for their talent, but it's very

beautiful. And uh whether it's Anne

Hathaway giving a wonderful speech about

her career um and I know I'm being

manipulated or this incredible song by

Lynn Manuel

Miranda sung to a song from the Little

Mermaid uh that about his career because

he was he was inspired by the Little

Mermaid and Howard Ashman and others and

I have to say it was just wonderful and

this is when I love celebrity and I love

that kind of thing and you see someone

like Anne Hathaway who's grown up also

in public eye who's done who's thrived

and Hayden who did not. It's really it's

it's a really interesting week for that.

Both incredibly talented by the way. Um

so those are my wins and fails. Um there

are you were you a Disney child, Adam?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I like Disney a lot. There

was this movie named Bolt about this dog

that went on this. Do you remember that?

Do you remember Bolt? I remember

watching that.

>> I have four children. I know all the

>> Okay. Okay. So you watched it a lot. And

then a lot of the D23 stuff even excites

me. They're doing all these like new

casting announcements on stage where

they're talking about this is the new

X-Men.

>> Yeah, they're great. Is there an X-Men

you object to? I think people kind of

like the X-Men choices.

>> Um, no, I think I think it's good so

far. I really liked it. I really liked

the uh the cast. I like Satie S.

She's really good. Yeah.

>> And she was in the new Spider-Man movie.

Have you seen that?

>> No, I'm going to. I'm about to. I'm

check it out. I am going to see it this

week. My girlfriend refuses to watch the

original Tobeby Magcguire movies cuz she

says they're too corny and old and I'm

like, "Dude, I I grew up on those. How

do I How do I convince her to watch

those?"

>> She's I'm sorry. She has to watch them.

They're wonderful. They're

>> Are you seeing the new one with your

kids?

>> Uh I I My one son is living in San

Francisco and he's not a Spider-Man fan

and the other is in China hiking right

now. So, he's not going to be able to do

it. They're I have the older the younger

ones are too young to watch Spider-Man.

They're not ready for it yet. Um,

they're four and six. And so they are

still on in the They went to see Paw

Patrol Dino. Okay. Island, which I am so

glad I didn't have to see Paw Patrol,

which I call Capaganda. Um, is they just

make a mess. The The Paw Patrol people

make a mess and then clean it up and

declare themselves heroes. I hate them.

I hate Oh my god.

>> Paw Patrol's copaganda.

>> Copaganda.

>> The cute little puppies.

>> They're propaganda. Just I like cops,

but man, they don't need more shows

celebrating [laughter] them. and not

little animals that destroy things. Then

I like may I'm for mayor. Uh what's his

name? Oh, the mayor. What's mayor? Oh,

now I'm going to forget. There's a

>> Paw Patrol mayor.

>> Paw Patrol mayor is Mayor Dingleberry.

>> Humdinger.

>> Humdinger. Yes. Yes. Thank you for

telling me that. He is so bad. And I I'm

with I'm with Humdinger on all things.

Anyway, uh we'll move on from that.

Anyhow, I will go see Spider-Man this

week. Um anyway, we want to hear from

you. Send us your questions about

business tech or whatever's on your

mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot

to submit a question for the show or

call 8551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen

Scott universe, this week on On, I

talked to author Ryan Holidayiday, who's

been popularizing the philosophy of

stoicism through his books and his

podcast. I'm really a fan of his. He

used to have a lot of high-profile fans

in Silicon Valley and tech, but many of

them have turned on him as they've

turned uh toward President Trump. also

because he's pointing out the things

they're using from stoicism, they

pervert completely, which is why I love

Ryan. Let's listen to a clip.

>> It's It's been weird. I don't feel like

I've changed that much.

>> You haven't?

>> And and it's it's been interesting to

watch people radicalize. Like I talked

about this in the book I did on wisdom.

Like watching Elon Musk go from reading

Soviet rocket manuals to like getting

all his news from from social media, you

realize just how easily smart people can

fry their brains. And I think that's

kind of the main problem of our time is

like how to avoid getting brain [ __ ]

>> Yeah. If you think that, Adam, is that

how you feel?

>> Actually, very very well said. I've

actually wondered a lot throughout the

past few years how Elon Musk can

simultaneously be somebody who seems

rather clever at times and can build and

hire and and push humanity in a

visionary direction, but then also at

such a minute level get caught up in

these weird lies about like black crime

statistics and trans statistics. How can

you simultaneously be caught up in both

of those?

>> Well,

this is your brain on drugs. I don't

[laughter] I don't Allegedly. Allegedly.

allegedly

>> uh you know this this it's more than

that. It's he really was really an

interesting character and not perfect by

any stretch of the imagination. But

what's happened to him has been really

disappoint for those of us who know him

pretty well. The shift has been dramatic

and disturbing and uh multifaceted and

it's a it's a waste. It's an enormous

waste. He's a little bit like Howard

Hughes or Henry Ford. You know, just

happens. Okay, that's the show. Thanks

for listening to Pivot and be sure to

like and subscribe to our YouTube

channel. will be back on Friday with

another special guest host. Uh Adam, I'm

a real fan. You're doing an amazing job.

I think you're going to have longevity.

Let me say the way you're talking about

your business is really smart and uh

just keep changing. I would say just

keep changing and shifting and and and

I'm sure you'll be around for a long

time to come.

>> Thank you. You and Scott are a huge

inspiration. Thank you for having me on

and I'm sure we'll cross paths again

soon.

>> Absolutely. Thanks, Adam.

>> [music]