this is very good news for Cinema what

just happened in the last couple minutes

kirston Cinema has been declared the

winner this is the first time that a

Democrat will have won a senate seat in

Arizona since 1976 the first woman ever

to serve as senator in Arizona so it's a

very big deal censured by the Arizona

Democratic party Kiren Cinema announcing

she's leaving the Democratic party she's

going to be leaving the Senate if you

ever meet someone with whom you agree

100% either they're a liar or you're not

thinking for yourself ladies and

Gentlemen please welcome Senator

Cinema thanks for coming absolutely

thank you for being

here how are you hey good to see

you all right well I think you uh heard

JD I listen to some of it you listen to

some of it you caught some yeah I listen

to the whole thing what's your take on

JD and um you know if he were to be

called called on to be president which

is the the nature of that job uh God

forbid for whatever reason um how do you

think he would do as president well

first let me say JD and I have been

friends for quite some time you know we

sered together in the Senate we have a

great relationship we don't agree on

everything um what I really appreciate

about JD is that it doesn't bother him

that we don't agree on everything right

I know that sounds strange but not here

right I mean yeah obviously you guys um

there's this this thing that I think is

kind of disturbing that's happened in

American politics and it's this idea

that you either have to agree with

someone 100% of the time or they are

your mortal enemy and must be destroyed

right and the two parties actually talk

about each other in this like

existential threat way right like the

only way the country will be safe is if

we completely eliminate the existence of

the other party but if you think about

that that's actually incredibly

dangerous right yeah it's incredibly

dangerous to have one party yes it's

called China and Russia exactly that's

exactly right so what we really want in

this country I what I really want is a

robust Marketplace of ideas and not only

the idea that you can tolerate that

someone else has an idea different than

your own but that you can welcome the

idea that someone has a different idea

than your own because you might I know

this sounds crazy learn from that other

idea and over time change or grow your

opinion it's an opportunity and so

that's one of my favorite things about

JD is that he and I have areas where we

share opinion very closely and we have

areas where we don't share the same

opinion and it's not a problem at all

like we're both comfortable with the

idea of difference of opinion I think

that's core to the idea of who you want

in a leader why has that

happened so why why have we found

ourselves in a place where we are

intolerant of the other party's ideas

and we are intolerant of members of the

other party well what's D what's Driven

this change the I will say that the term

we doesn't apply to me obviously um like

because when people told me to do that I

was like yeah no I'm not going to do

that at all and um they were like you're

excused and right so and for those who

don't know your background you left the

Democratic party that's right and as a

as a as a sitting Senator yes right yes

that's right um because I think you

should have your own

opinion I'm pretty straightforward yeah

and so how does that how does that phone

call go do you call Chuck and say I have

something to tell you or or actually

more importantly joking aside how did

that Evolution happen for you so you

started out you're in Arizona you start

out as a clear Democrat that wins you

the actually so turn back time um great

song um when I first ran for office very

young like in my 20s I ran as an

independent and I came in dead last yeah

um and then I re-registered as a

Democrat ran for the same office came in

first and then you fast forward changed

nothing meaning in terms of what you

said my hair changes all the time but

apart from that nothing changed right so

uh re-registered as a Democrat came in

first served in the state house for

seven for six years served in the state

senate for a term ran for the US

Congress won a competitive District

slightly more Republican than Democrat I

won I served in that seat for six years

ran for the Senate became the first

woman ever to win a senate race in

Arizona

um more importantly I was the first

member of of at the time the Democratic

party in over 30 years to win a senate

SE in Arizona um but I was never a

traditional Democrat and those who've

known me for a long time have always

known that that I just am not interested

in fitting into a box and never have

been and so I've always been me um there

came a point where me being me no longer

fit within the Democratic party and they

were really uncomfortable having me in

the party and so I made it easier for

them by leaving and it made everyone

happier um I was a lot happier cuz I was

being more genuine um but what what

dides that mean just double click into

you being you what is that that was that

made them so uncomfortable well I'll

give you an example my my first vote in

the United States Senate was a vote on

the issue of Israel and I got a call

from at the time minority leader Chuck

Schumer and he asked me to vote no on on

the measure and I said well there's zero

chance I'm voting no on this measure

this is a this is a vote to stand with

Israel like the I vote no is a hard

zero he was like ah this is partisan and

we got to be a unity and and I don't

like I'm not going to share the details

of that conversation but it was a it was

a partisan conversation and for me I was

like this I'm I'm confused about the

nature of this conversation because the

idea that I'm going to change my vote

because someone else wants me to is

never going to happen right the only

thing that would cause me to change my

vote is to get new information that

changes the calculus for my decision

right cuz that's a sign of growth and

learning is if you get new information

right there was no new information it

was just a party vote and I said yeah

well I don't need to go to the party

like I'm going to vote the way that I

believe and um for me that didn't seem

like a particularly important moment

it's just how I am but it that that was

problematic for other people is there a

lot of pressure in the way that politics

happens on the ground which is a lot of

you in the Senate may come to a

conclusion or an opinion but before that

vote is cast there's just on both sides

tremendous pressure to reassign whatever

you underwrote it almost hey it doesn't

matter now we got to tow the party line

is there a lot of that yeah I mean the

the biggest example of that would be

what I think is the most important vote

I've ever taken in my entire life and

that was the vote to protect the

filibuster the the pressure around that

vote was severe me want to explain that

to folks just uh yeah so the filibuster

is a provision in the United States

Senate it's a rule it's not

constitutional but it's a rule that

requires that any major piece of

legislation any policy related

legislation requires the approval of 60

Senators rather than 51 right so a super

majority in order to move forward to

debate discuss and pass the piece of

legislation now there are some people

who hate the filibuster because they

like to have all the power when they

have the power and I think it's very

dangerous to eliminate the filibuster

the filibuster is like a control

mechanism that keeps the Senate from

ricocheting back and forth between the

wild edges of the political pressure

from either party now some people will

say well the the filibusters knew it

wasn't always around well that's true

because when the Senate was founded it

took a hundred Senators to move forward

on a piece of legislation right a 100

and it's eroded down to 60 I believe it

would be very dangerous to eliminate

that and allow it to be a simple

majority the Senate would become the

house and for God's sake I served there

for six years there's a reason I went to

the Senate

right the idea is that the Senate is a

place that represents all of the views

of the country including areas that are

rural or small or have been left behind

minority opinions must be protected and

celebrated in the United States Senate

but there was intense pressure intense

pressure to eliminate the

filibuster now the thing that's

interesting is that pressure had zero

impact on me yeah like zero none and

people thought it was going to they were

like oh we're going to get her we're

going to get her and I just was like

sure I'll go to Every meeting you'd like

and I'll I went to every single meeting

I listened to everyone no one ever gave

me any information that led me to think

it would be a good idea to get rid of

the last vestage of bipartisanship in

the United States Senate is there

a knowing what you know now um is there

a path out of this I mean and how much

more toxic has it gotten over the years

yeah and why and why we didn't get to

the why like what's what's Driven the

extreme partisanship the the the

inability to have dialogue the the lack

of the idea cauldron like what's well it

has gotten a lot worse I mean I've been

doing this for 20 years and obviously

started in elementary school but um I've

been doing it for a long time and it has

gotten it has gotten much more severe

much more partisan uh you know there are

a number of factors for that um but I

think a large part of it is that we as

Americans we all of

us are choosing people who agree with

100% of the time because it feels good

even if those individuals don't get

done like they don't return any results

but they will make a Tik Tok telling you

how your view is so right and and and

it's now become out of favor to support

someone with whom you agree with only

60% of the time when the reality is is

that if you find someone with whom you

agree with only 60% of the time they're

thinking for themselves and so are you

but if you find someone with whom you

agree with 100% of the time either

they're lying to you or you're not

thinking for yourself and those are two

very dangerous things both very

dangerous so it has gotten more and more

extreme because our political system

rewards those who say the things that

are not true in order to get the

Applause and the likes and the support

money Etc and punish those who say the

things that are true but are not

everything you want you know does that

mean that democracy eventually dies no I

don't think so our country's been

through much worse I mean we had a civil

war it it I do think it gets worse for a

while before it gets better you know and

to Jason's question how does it get

better well I think it gets really bad

um and then when it gets pretty bad

people are like oh we got to do

something like this is our only country

and then you know it kind of comes back

is that this moment now yeah no I don't

think we're there yet uh what what what

play out the scenarios here commo wins

Trump wins we spend another 8 trillion

in debt and we and how many more cyes

cares about debt neither party cares

aboutt let's be honest

on both sides yeah but which means it's

going to happen so we're sitting here

maybe two more Cycles from now and we've

put another 15 trillion down you know on

this and then when does it break what is

the what is the um um impetus to make

that change when does it break down when

do we hit rock bottom sure I know the

answer to that and anyone who tells you

they do is probably lying because what

are the possibilities that you see from

inside the machine of this really

breaking yeah there are some challenges

head right I mean uh Congress spends

like a drunken sailor with no thought

for the future we are running to the

tape on ISS on on being able to fund

things like Social Security and Medicare

and Congress is doing nothing to solve

it right there's actually a little

Coalition of us who are trying to solve

those problems um Cassidy Senator

Cassidy Senator King myself and when we

went to go talk to our colleagues on

both sides of the aisle they were like

no let's wait till after the election

yeah that's totally going to make it

better right like things are going to be

totally good after the election like

they're just putting off that which is

uncomfortable because the solution to

those fiscal problems require sacrifice

in the short term and elected officials

are not willing to sacrifice anything in

the short term because it means that

they may not get re-elected and if their

number one goal is to survive then

they're not going to make the hard

decisions can we talk about that for a

second can you just explain to us the

underbelly of Politics the money in

politics the people that you have to um

time with how the money Cycle Works how

did you feel that pressure if it all

even if I'm not saying you responded to

it but maybe just to explain to it well

it does take millions and millions and

millions of dollars to run for office I

mean a senate seat in Arizona is like

what $150 million um so so you you do

need a lot of help sorry to win this to

win a senate seat it's 150 million bucks

in Arizona not yeah in Arizona but there

are some states in which it probably

cost you know way less because it's not

competitive but in a competitive State

you know it's going to be very very

expensive

but you know I look there is always

pressure to raise the money but you can

go about it however you want to go about

it most people go about it the easy way

which is to just kind of Follow The Line

that the party has given and then the

machine lines it up to give you the

money if you choose not to follow the

line then which is the path that I took

then you have to find folks who are also

unusual and don't fit easily into a

party line that's support that's a very

important thing you're saying so

essentially is if you inform which means

that in those times where you get the

phone

call you have to basically tow the line

otherwise the money spigot stops is that

right or no is that is it not that

drastic I mean it was that drastic for

me after the filibuster vote everyone

was like we hate you clunk um and I was

like right but I am protecting democracy

so call me back later

click um they had not called back

um that day is coming guys um so the way

you're framing it though I think is

maybe not exactly correct because what

you're saying is you have to do the

party line thing in order to stay in the

thing that that I think it's important

to remember is most people want to do

the party line thing right it's not like

they're sitting around going like oh I

really don't want to vote this way but I

really feel like I have to to save my

career there's this thing about being

part of the club people want to be part

of the club and so it's not like the

thumb is you know being pushed down on

lots of people to get them to do a

certain thing they're doing it because

they're part of the club does that make

sense right it it makes sense I don't

understand that me either obviously but

I get it so first of all I want to say

that I wholeheartedly agree with you

about the need to have a free

Marketplace of ideas where people can

debate these issues without any fear of

reprisal and um I think it's sentiments

like that that made me support you as

when you know you were a senator and a

Democrat people may be surprised to find

out that actually we we co-hosted an

event with you a few years ago uh cuz I

look for opportunities to support

Democrats when I can when they're

independent minded so

I DAV always appreciate that about you

so um for that yeah that's exactly weast

um I want to go back to the first year

of the the Biden Administration 2021 and

I don't know if people remember but that

whole year uh domestic politics was

royed by a piece of legislation called

build back better this is a $4.5

trillion spending package that actually

originally was six remember a six trilon

like that's like Bonkers they yeah they

brought it

down six and uh whatever whatever yeah

and um you know it it eventually failed

because every Republican voted against

it uh and two Democrats you and Senator

Mansion voted against it as I

recall the the thing that always seemed

really crazy to me is you know beyond

just the sheer amount of this spending

package which now everyone looks at the

deficit in the debt and they're like you

know it's already crazy enough as it is

without that having passed imagine if it

did pass yeah um and our economy can you

imagine yeah it would it would have been

a total disaster I think um and but the

the the amazing thing to me was that we

had this year-long debate in Washington

and they never just came to you and

Mansion at the beginning of the process

and just said what are you guys willing

to do because you were the swing votes

right right and instead they spent a

year like pushing for this thing and

then I guess they expected to kind of

jam it through at the end put enough

pressure on you to vote for this I

actually had this discussion with um

Schumer and the White House in the

summer of 21 so um I'm sure all of you

remember all this you know because this

is what you do in your lives is think

about the work that I'm doing in the

United States Senate but um in February

of 2021 after we passed um that a big Co

package which you know we passed a

pretty sizable Co package I was worried

that it wasn't paid for I was worried

about the impact this would have on the

economy turns out all that was right um

I went to Schumer right the day after

that and said look I know that you want

to do infrastructure next and I want to

do infrastructure because infrastructure

is really important for the future of

economic growth and competitiv in our

country but I want to do it in a

bipartisan way because this is that

that's what we should be doing in the

Senate and he said something to me along

the lines of we'd love to have the

Republicans with us if they'd like to

come that'd be great and was like well

see my idea of Byers ship is a little

bit different it's more about the sit

down and work together and create

something together and then have a

product that you put up together rather

than just building it and asking someone

to come and jump on your train and so um

you know people just kind of Pat patted

me on the head and I went out and

started working with Rob Portman who has

since retired but let me tell you what

super smart very nerdy great with a

spreadsheet right like I was like that's

my guy right there and so Rob and I

began working quietly Just the Two of Us

um doing nuts and bolts of like how to

build an infrastructure plan after we

gained some steam we began inviting

others so it ended up that we had a

really carefully curated group of five

Dems and five Republicans all moderates

and conservatives working on

infrastructure and we began we we got to

a place where our infrastructure bill

was going to go you all may recall we

actually we actually got it done um and

it was paid for but while we were almost

at the point of voting on the

infrastructure pack package that's when

the White House unveiled build back

better and I actually put out a public

statement which is very rare for me

saying there's no way I'm going to vote

for that package because it cost eight

bazillion dollars and it was

irresponsible and oh they were so pissed

off they're like why did you say that

I'm like well I think it's important for

everyone to know that there's zero

chance I vote for that and I want to say

it now so I don't get jammed later right

CU I would rather disappoint people

today rather than disappoint them the

day of the vote I want them to know I

will never vote for this

and the pressure just grew from there

didn't work obviously um because there

was zero chance in which I was going to

vote for $4 half trillion dollars of new

taxes many of which are being debated

right now in the presidential campaign

and which are Bonkers um and so I I just

I said no I said no early on so I did

start engaging with the white house

after that and they said well what would

you vote for and I said here and I

created a spreadsheet and I said here

are all the tax policies that you're

interested in here are the ones that I'm

willing to consider it was a small list

and they just didn't believe me for a

long time it took a year took about 14

months 14 months later they believe me

when I said here are the policies I will

support here are the ones I will not

support but it took 14 months before

people believed that I meant what I said

about tax policy we um when JD was up

here um and thank you for that work by

the way and that uh Independence um It

just strikes me before you move on Jason

that we could have voided so much ranker

over the first one to two years of the

Biden Administration if they just

listened to you because you were trying

to find what I said you were trying to

find you know it was a very it was close

to a 50/50 senate or I guess it was a 50

it was 5050 5050 it was 50/50 right so

it's not like President Biden had an LBJ

like mandate to push through massive new

spent tax times and uh so in any event I

just it's always seemed crazy to me that

they didn't listen to you and they

didn't try and find that bipartisan

compromise very early on we could have

avoided you know so much of of this um

you know the this again the ranker but

here's the thing David um and then I

want to get to your point but look both

parties do this so I I don't want it I

don't want to sound like I'm just you

know all over Biden and Schumer

because look when Trump was president

and he controlled all the chambers he he

did the same thing so there's there are

no there's no Purity here right when one

party has total control they over use it

that is what happens because when a

party gets power they think they're

going to have it forever they overreach

and then the system corrects and so one

might suggest just maybe suggest that a

small amount of humility would help here

to think that perhaps when you do have

power you may not always have power and

that it would be good and it would serve

you well to always consider other

people's positions minority positions

even if they are not the same as your

own because there will come a time when

those individuals have the power and

that perhaps if you're interested in

like having some stability and

predictability in our country that

finding that more moderate ground is

always good regardless of which parties

in power that's very unpopular what I

just

said

um I'm

curious um when we look at this

two-party system if there is a way out

of it and to maybe create a little bit

more choice for um and a little bit more

uh competition and and have a a viable

third party actually you uh explained in

the last panel how you know Kennedy to

Trump and you know uh Cheney to uh kamla

it's very strange times we're living in

and most of us don't feel that either

party represents us fully sax doesn't

believe with these neocons starting Wars

everywhere Etc so is it possible for us

to have a viable third party because you

seem to be also

partless and which I'm fine with party

one is great guys I love it party one

sit at the bar just perfect yes I love

it it's great too um the nice thing

about being a party of one is you get to

have the entire platform to yourself

like if people are like what's your

party platform well I made it up because

it's all my ideas it's wonderful um so

you know there was an attempt this year

to try and create a third party option

the group No Labels with whom I have a

great relationship with and a lot of

respect for um worked on it the it the

time is not ripe for that that was

obvious like why is this I'm not right I

don't I don't know that I can answer

that for you um my ass mment is that

many people in America are so scared of

what the other party represents and the

potential overreach that comes from the

other party's positions and the story

that has been created that the existence

of the other party is an existential

threat to the future of our country like

that's a story that both parties tell I

I think because of that most Americans

are they're dissatisfied with the

parties but they don't feel confident or

comfortable enough to go somewhere else

because they're not sure what it will

bring and the fear of the other is at an

all-time high I'm curious in this

audience putting this election cycle

aside how many people would like to see

us have a third or fourth option a third

or fourth party raise your hand okay

that's like everybody in the audience

like I don't un L parties one what's up

a lot of parties have won yeah I mean I

think more americ R got 19% it looked

like uh Bobby Kennedy had at the peak

what 15

20 yeah I mean it it does seem like and

and people really wanted no labels to

put up Mansion maybe yourself or no no

no I'm

overqualified

what would you would you what's next for

you are you going to consider running or

you want to be in the private sector you

just want to excited about what's

happening in the private sector right

now I mean we've got Industries in this

country that are really pushing the edge

on what's going to ensure that we're

globally competitive and Innovative for

the future and I'm really excited about

it and I I believe that regardless of

what's happening in government because

as I mentioned earlier I do think it's

going to get worse gridlock going to get

tougher and blah blah blah people are

not interested in solving problems

they're disinterested and ticktock and

so um there there's a real opportunity

to move our country forward despite the

gridlock in government through Private

Industry and that's where I want to work

why why are the Democrats so anti-

capitalist I I don't understand because

that's where the money comes from yeah I

just don't understand spent of being so

either yeah you know I am um I'm fairly

libertarian I think you know just at my

base most arizonans are

um I I I I struggle with the idea of

wanting to eliminate the Private

Industry because that is where the ideas

come from that's where the Innovation

comes from and that's where the money

comes from to fund the social programs

that are important to prot country was

built on yeah this country had nothing

250 years ago and the ability to

innovate the opportunity for

entrepreneurs to build and for people to

partake in that created productivity

gains and ultimately prosperity for

everyone and it makes no sense to stall

it it just doesn't make any sense like I

don't understand it do you um when you

look at the Israel Palestine conflict

has any of this was it is this expected

the way that this there's this fissure

that's built in America now the fissure

that's been created in West growing um

it's been growing you know I'm I'm quite

close with the pro is community not just

in Arizona but nationally because Israel

is our only Democratic partner in the

Middle East and is one of the best

Partners to the United States and has

been since its Inception

um but anti-Semitism has long been a

part of our country's history and it has

been growing the difference is is that

it was kind of quie is you know it was

happening on campuses with the anti-bds

movement um it was growing um in a

number of circles on both the far left

and the far right um and and what we've

seen you know in in the last year um is

that it's now okay to say the quiet part

out loud what what's boggling to my mind

as and I don't talk about this very

often because it makes me sound really

nerdy but I actually um I actually have

studied genocide like I did a PhD on the

Rwandan Genocide right which Super nerdy

I know

but the narrative that somehow Israel

are the oppressors and Hamas are the

liberators and then there are folks who

are actually using the term genocide to

talk about the Israeli government and

the Israeli people is so insane like

that's

insane I

mean talk about the worst form of

gaslighting you can even imagine right

like it's just insane and yet it's not a

surprise because if you've been paying

attention it's been percolating and

growing for years

and folks in the pro-israel community

know this and they've been talking about

it it's just that no one was really

listening because it was all whisper

whisper whisper or just you know kids on

campuses but now we see happening

especially at these so-called Elite

universities where not only has the

pramas movement take over taken over but

the faculty that the folks who were in

responsible for the educational

environment have shown an unwillingness

to speak the truth right which I think

is just disturbing is there a path to

find a empathetic solution for the

Palestinians while also at the same time

eliminating Hamas and of getting past

this problem after the vast majority of

Palestinian people are living in an

environment in which they don't have

control over their daily lives they

don't get access to the food and the

water they need they're being used as

human Shields and political weapons and

physical weapons by Hamas and so they

are in just an horri horrible horrible

situation and so the work that we've

been trying to do to navigate how to get

relief or evacuation for those

individuals is really important and

should not be eliminated or cut off but

we also need to be much much more

careful about who we're giving the money

and the food and the supplies to because

we know that the majority of it is being

siphoned off by Hamas and used as a

weapon of War um is there a solution

that can protect the innocent lives

absolutely um is standing with Hamas

that solution

no that's like doing a rally for Isis

like what the

hell is like how did we not see this

like we could have just gone to Harvard

but how how are young people at Harvard

and Colombia and Yale how come they

can't they don't all of a sudden that

distinction isn't obvious to them it is

hard for me to understand this now I am

lucky enough to live in Arizona and we

just don't have this there's a very

small amount of this very small on our

campuses but the vast majority of

students in Arizona these are like

regular kids

these are not you know fancy kids these

are regular kids they go to regular

schools they live a regular life and

they go to a regular state school and so

they don't wake up in the morning and

think I think I want to support those

terrorists over there in the Middle East

right like and so I think there's one of

the problems that I see in Academia and

full disclosure I I have been a

professor at Arizona State University

for 21 years so I I teach I'm te I teach

this semester i' I've been teaching

non-stop for 21 years um but I teach in

a climate where my students are expected

to be triggered or whatever that word is

I think that's a stupid word but the

bottom line is this there's this whole

thing moving across the country where

we're like oh we can't have any

triggering conversations we can't have

conversations make you uncomfortable

that is the whole purpose of college the

whole idea of the university is to go

learn about the universe you should be

confronted with ideas that are different

than your own you should interact with

people who have views that are different

than your own you should be open to

learning and listening and changing and

growing that is the reason that you go

to university right and that is being

taken

away Senator Cinema thank you for being

with US senator Cinema

[Applause]