I was speaking to someone. They said

they're scared that if they share how

they feel, they may push the other

person away. Talk to me about that.

>> Number one, it's a valid fear. I'm not

going to say that that fear isn't valid.

I think anybody here that go, "Well,

that's certainly understandable. What if

they don't?" It's always the what if

they do? Well, okay. Let's let's assume

that they do. What happens next? If they

do, you push them away. What happens?

It's it's seeing that your life isn't

going to fall apart. Now, if I come into

the conversation and I am not trying to

sugarcoat it, and if I'm not trying to

make it to where I'm only saying things

to plate you to to make you feel good

and not being genuine, I've already set

up the conversation and I've set up the

relationship on

fake. I'm just giving you a mask. I'm

giving you a character of what I can

tell is going to appease you. I'm going

to be the the hero. I'm going to be the

fixer. I'm going to be the happy one.

I'm going to be the one who's always

bubbly and can never be sad. And you you

give them a character. When you choose

not to be authentic in the conversation.

So the thought of, you know, if I do

this, I'm going to push them away. And

if you do, what happens? That's really

what the fear is. Am I enough by myself?

That's that's the underlying fear. And

when you realize I can be enough without

them, all those fears go away.

>> Yeah. And that's what we're all working

towards, I feel, is

>> yeah, am I enough?

>> Am I enough? And it's so interesting.

That's exact. I was talking to that

person and I said, you know, after you

have that conversation or whether you

choose not to, I think self- loveve

needs to be worked on either way because

that's right.

>> That that's at the root of it. What What

do you feel? You've been doing this for

some time. You come from the legal

world.

>> What's the number one communication

mistake you see people making today?

>> [laughter]

>> The one that I make too is that you

think that what is said

>> is exactly what's heard.

>> Especially in in relationships. How many

times in a relationship have they kind

of repeated back what you said? Well,

you said and that's not what I said.

>> I didn't sound like that. That's not how

I said it. And you start arguing. They

go, "Yeah, you did. Yeah, you did." And

they go, "I wish I had this recorded.

You know, I wish this I had this on

camera that you could have seen back how

you just spoke to me." And instead we

just we start fighting over how I said

it.

>> The better way to go is to say what did

you hear? What did what did you hear?

Oh, okay. That's that's not at all what

I meant. Can I can I have a let me let

me redo that. That's not at all what I

meant. Instead, we just we split the

conversation into something that has

nothing to do with what you the original

source. So the number one communication

that fault that I see is assuming that

what is said is exactly what is heard.

When you ask the question, what did you

hear? Whether it's even in business or

in relationships, you always get a

different perspective that makes the

connection that much stronger.

>> You're so right. You end up splitting

the conversation and you end up arguing

about something that you weren't even

arguing about.

>> Yes.

>> And that's the worst part because you

end up creating something that is now an

issue that wasn't even an issue in the

first place.

>> Absolutely. And it ends up that

you will prove yourself wrong. I mean,

when you say, "No, this is exactly how I

said it." We don't even really know what

our face looks like, you know, when

we're talking. Unless you're the in a

mirror the whole time. You You don't

know. And so, we we are terrible

>> judges of our subjective expressions.

>> They say, "No, I that's not how I said

it. No, that's not what I that's not how

I said it." And yes, you did. Yeah. And

so that that is to me it's if you want

to know somebody that has strong

emotional intelligence, it's how quick

they get to asking for a reset.

>> How quick they get to saying that's not

my intention. My intention was this. Ah,

okay. I can see that. The quicker that

you get to that, that's somebody who

says I'm okay being wrong. What does it

take for someone who always thinks

they're right to open up to the idea

that they might be wrong?

>> The person in front of you isn't

fighting you. They're fighting to be

understood by you. They're fighting to

feel understood by you. When somebody's

clammed up and you have to say, "You

need to change your opinion. You need to

change your opinion. You're right. I'm

wrong." That's not going to happen. You

can't just wish for that. Instead, if I

were to say to you, listen, I'm not here

to change your mind, Jay. This is what I

believe. You hear how just me saying

that all of a sudden opens up that

curiosity of, well, maybe I do want to

change my mind.

>> I don't really know. But if I were to

say, how can you possibly think that you

you really think that that person is the

person you should be voting for? You

think that? And as soon as I get into

criticism, the more I tell you that

you're wrong, the more convinced you'll

be that you're right. Because most

likely, if I want you to change your

mind and I say that you're wrong about

something, Jay, I'm not just saying

you're wrong. I'm saying that your

wife's wrong, your dad's wrong, your

parents are wrong, your grandmother is

wrong. that thing that you went to when

you were a kid that's a big

crystallizing moment in your life that

that set your belief system is all wrong

and it's become part of your identity.

And so instead of me fighting I think

I'm fighting an opinion. I'm not. I'm

fighting now your identity. And people

will go to the ends of the earth. They

will close off everything. They will box

their ears to prevent having to change

one second of their identity. Why?

Because that change feels extremely

scary. That's why evidence doesn't work.

When you show people statistics on

things, how can you possibly believe

this? And they go, I just, no, it

doesn't matter. It they will justify it.

They will flip it. They will find find

ways to to take what supports them or

reject anything that that doesn't. It's

because it's now part of their identity.

So, if you want to change somebody's

mind, number one, you have to validate

them. Two, you can't argue against the

identity. You have to argue against the

value. You have to find the value. Speak

to the value. And three, understand that

one conversation is generally not

enough. If you want somebody to change

their mind, it takes years. It takes

months. And the bigger the belief, the

more time it's going to take.

>> A lot of people want to have

conversations with their partners or

their parents or a sibling,

>> but they don't find that that person

wants to communicate about that topic or

theme or subject.

>> Yeah. So, how do we communicate with

someone who doesn't want to communicate

with us? Because often that could be our

partner, our parent, or someone that we

love deeply.

>> Yeah.

>> And we want to talk to them about

something meaningful, but they don't

really even want to engage. Is it

possible?

>> It's possible.

I get a lot of questions of people who

are estranged from usually adult

children. there's, you know, their

30year-old son doesn't want to talk to

his mom or a a daughter who doesn't want

to talk to her dad and they haven't

spoken in three years. And every time I

have that kind of conversation, it it

breaks my heart because you can tell and

look at this parent, they want to have a

conversation with their child. And you

know, deep down, so does that that

child. They need that relationship. How

do you how do you crack that code? What

I have found most successful and what I

teach them is I begin with saying I know

I'm not and I'm open. And it sounds like

this. I know there's distance between

us. I know things aren't how we both

want them to be. I know I've messed up.

Whatever that is. I you you're saying

what is a given to is I'm not I'm not

asking to change your mind. I'm not

asking for an apology. I'm not asking

for whatever it is what they think

that's what you're after. And three is

I'm open. I'm open to a conversation.

I'm open and I'm open I'm open to

listening. I'm open in I'm open to

understanding. Whenever you can just

crack the door open of saying the

conversation is here. And sometimes

that's not enough. They're not going to

do it. And in that case, what I like to

say is then you have to live out the

conversation and understand that if you

can't be a bridge, be a lighthouse. You

know, if I if they don't want to come

across to me and they've burned the

bridge, well, then they're at least

going to know where I am and they're

going to know what I stand for and

they're going to see the light that I

I'm going to try to bring even if they

don't want to talk.

>> I know I'm not. I'm open.

>> Yeah.

>> I really like that.

>> I I really really like that. Especially

the I'm not.

>> Right. Exactly. I feel like that's such

an important one because I feel like

half the time it's like

>> I I know we're not where we want to be,

but I'd love it if you

>> you got it. Yeah. Exactly. They're

waiting for the you know, I know there's

distance, but you just, you know, and

they're expecting who's going to

apologize first.

>> Yeah.

>> I think that that for relationships and

family, you know, the hard stuff, it

becomes this petty fight over, well, I'm

not doing anything till they apologize.

And well, okay, you do it at your own

peril. Then say goodbye to it. Say

goodbye to it because they both dug in

their heels and nobody's going to change

unless somebody decides to do something

different.

>> And when you can just change the

narrative by 1% and say, I'm going to go

off on a ledge and do something

different. I've seen more relationships

come back together. I've seen more

people come back and say, thank you so

much. I we're actually going to meet up

for coffee. She's coming to Christmas

this year. Oh my gosh. Like that. What

What is life not about if not that?

>> I really hope everyone who's listening

or watching, you know, tries that out.

>> You do that so well. You know, I've seen

that with you'll say, "When's the last

time you talked to somebody?

>> Grab your phone. Call them. Call them

now."

>> Yeah.

>> Call them now. Why? Why wait? Was would

you have to wait to be ready? Call them

now. And when you choose to do something

different, you choose to be the first.

They say, "Oh, you know, I'm tired of

being the bigger person." Well, that's

>> that's life. Then you then you do it

with the understanding that things are

not going to be different unless

something is different.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I always I always come back

to what is the outcome that I want.

>> Yeah.

>> Like if the outcome I want is for this

person and know how I feel then I might

have to be the bigger person. I might

have to be first.

>> I might have to be apologetic. I might

have to be more compassionate. Mhm.

>> But if that serves my ultimate goal,

which is this person knows how I feel,

then I should be willing to become

anything.

>> That's right.

>> But if my goal is to set a boundary and

not let someone cross it,

>> right?

>> Then I may actually even have to become

more guarded. I may have to become more

reserved. I may have to I have to become

all these other things. And then you

say, "Oh, but I don't want to be

reserved." But it's like, but that

serves your goal.

>> Absolutely.

>> And and so you've got to know what your

objective is or what your what your goal

is of any conversation. And I know you

talk about how winning is never the goal

of any argument,

>> even though that's what we all think.

>> Yeah. Especially being a an attorney,

people are like what you're supposed to

do. And it's not that's just not the

that's not the truth. It's not like it

is on TV. What I teach is arguments are

not something to win. They're something

to unravel. You find knots in

conversations. In law, there's this

thing called the jury instructions.

Meaning at the very end of the trial,

let's say you've you've had two weeks

worth of evidence, you had openings, all

all your your motions, and you're

finally at the end, and the juryy's

about to go back and make a decision on

something. They have a document called

the jury instructions, and it's written

out who's responsible, this person, this

person. They do this, yes or no? They

add percentages, they might add money,

whatever it is. It is this document that

controls the ultimate outcome of the

entire case. And good attorneys start

with the jury instructions when they

first get a new file. Bad attorneys wait

till the very end. Same way in

relationships. Like you mentioned, if I

know where the goal is, everything else

becomes fluff. Everything else becomes

irrelevant. So what if they said that

thing two years ago that you could bring

up? So what if they, you know, said it a

way that they rolled their eyes? Can can

you have a little bit more emotional

resilience to understand what's

happening in that moment to not be

clouded by the forest,

you know, the trees through the forest

to be able to see what's happening in

real life. So start with your end. Have

a goal for the conversation

and and make sure if I if I could say

with you, let's say you and I are off

and I say, Jay, I I know we're about to

have a difficult conversation and I want

you to know I'm going to be in it here

with you. How encouraged do you feel of

knowing I'm not trying to abandon you in

it. I'm not trying to push something at

you. And when you are able to slow it

down and see arguments as not something

to win, but something to unravel, you

find so much more in the connection.

>> If you've been with someone for long

enough, they're going to end up saying

something that will trigger you or that

will undoubtedly.

>> Yeah. Undoubted if you've been to

someone long enough.

>> Yeah.

>> When your partner says something that

triggers you,

>> what do you do?

>> You tell them in a way that communicates

it that it sinks in. If something is

said to me by Sierra and it it triggers

me. One is there is a mindset to me in

in any relationship that you have to

have that says this is a place where I

can be messy. This is a place where I

don't have to be my best of all the

places to be. This should be the safest

for me. Now, if it's intentional, this

person meant to trigger you, then what I

like to do is ask the question, "Did you

mean? Did you mean for that to upset me?

Did you mean for that to hurt me?" You

you find out real quick if they really

did because sometimes people say things

they they don't mean, not sometimes,

they always do, you know? And if you

find that you you can't even slow down

enough to have the discussion of this is

what hurt me, you know that this

triggers me. I think there's also a

difference of if they know that it does

and they're using it as a weapon. Well,

that breaches trust versus they didn't

know it and now you need to explain why

this this reminds you of that time when

you were a kid that is setting you off

and you're not really sure how to how to

deal with it. So, when it comes to being

triggered, you first have to slow

everything down. Means I'm going to talk

slower. I'm going to lower my volume

rather than getting amped up. and I'm

going to let them know that something

else is coming up for me more than what

you said. And if you're in a committed

relationship that they want to

understand you, that's a conversation

you're going to have.

>> And I think the natural reaction when

someone says something that triggers us

is either to say something that triggers

them back.

>> Yeah.

>> Even if it was unconscious in the first

place, or we kind of rush to defend

ourselves,

>> which seem like very natural human

instincts. How do we build that

slowness, that patience, that stillness

that's required to actually create

connection as opposed to do the human

thing, which is defend ourselves and

prove our worth and show we're right.

How do how do we even get

[clears throat] into that pocket?

>> Your first word has to be your breath.

In those moments, when somebody says

something we don't like, we

and we get up like that. We we suck it

in, but we don't let it out. Instead,

our our breath comes out when we're

yelling. We're raising our voice. When

when you start to yell and somebody

says, "You're yelling." And you go, "I'm

not yelling." Because you know deep down

that's exactly what you're doing. If you

find that you don't know how to slow it

down, it's your breath. Your breath

always comes first so that you can

actually

breathe.

And there's a difference between if you

say something that's hurtful and I

immediately go me Okay, Jake. What about

you? You You don't remember that time

that you you really want to You're going

to That's That's rich. That's funny. You

You want to say this to me? And I start

right out you versus if I give it five

to 7 seconds of nothing. Meaning, I'm

going to breathe and I'm just going to

let your words fall to the ground. As if

I go, "You sure you're good with that?

That that what you said? Is that what

you really want to say?" Because people

don't like to hear their their words

echo in that silence. I've seen it

countless times where the person who

said the hurtful thing and you know what

I've been that person too where you say

or they say I I shouldn't have said that

before you had to say anything. What I

what I meant to say was or or that that

was too far.

That's allowing

you to look more controlled and more

confident in that conversation. And all

of a sudden when it's like this instead

of it slowly begins like this just by

the silence of understanding

hearing their words echo back withdraws

that that sting. It never stings as bad.

>> Yeah.

>> It takes discipline. It takes real

discipline. When I hear people take a

breath before they respond,

I know what's about to come out is

has a much more heavy

>> footing to it. If you were to just ask

me, you know, how was your day or how

are you doing? I'm like, good. I'm good.

I'm great. Everything's good. And I have

that quick response. And if you instead

were to ask me, how's your day? And I

went,

I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. Now, what's

the difference? Same thing. I just I use

my breath. I slowed it down.

>> I calm my nervous system. And as a

secondary benefit, I also calm down

yours.

>> Yeah. And so most of the time when you

feel that rise coming, you have to slow

down the conversation. So the the to me

the hotter the fire burns, the more you

have to to spread out the coals because

it's

>> slowing it down. Even asking, can we can

we slow this down for a second? Can I

take a a moment just to I I'm I'm here

with you. I just need a second to to

think what follows after is never how it

sounded before. If your partner's giving

you the silent treatment, how do you

engage?

>> Depends if the silent treatment is there

for a reason.

>> Some people you you kind of have to do

the the gray rock on that they're you

can't be you can't reason with them. So,

I'm not saying that silent treatment is

is not there for a good reason

sometimes, but let's say it's there to

hurt you. You people who will use

silence as a punishment. they they're

upset you did something and they just

go, "Okay, I'm just not going to talk to

you anymore." That to me is the number

one sign of low emotional intelligence

is if you can't even have the ability to

say,

"I need to take a break for a second

because that really upset me.

I'll text you this afternoon. I'll text

you tomorrow. I'll call you tomorrow

versus just ghosting just because what

it does is it puts the other person in

position of trying to beg, trying to

plead and then what happens to that

other person? They desperately want you

to communicate. So what do they do? Most

of the time they say something super

flagrant, like a bad foul. They they say

something that is really harsh just in

hopes that you come back in. That that's

it. They just want that text back. Okay,

he's still there. He still reads my

text. He's still whatever it is. And so

if you really are somebody who's you're

trying to get through the silent

treatment, respond to, "I see that

you're giving me the silent treatment. I

see that you've gone quiet on me. I'm

going to give you space. I'm ready to

have the conversation when you are."

Now, there's a difference of somebody

taking an hour to get back with you.

Taken 5 days to get back with you. Well,

that's something different. That's

that's somebody who has chosen not to be

connected. Because if I really want a

conversation with you, a real

relationship with you, I'm not going to

put you in the position of begging.

>> That's such a great note that if someone

wants to be in a relationship with you,

they'll never put you in a position of

begging.

>> Never. They'll always stay interested,

you know, it's it's like we've for

people who are married, let's say, or in

a a big relationship, it starts with me

being very interested in you. I'm going

to want to know your favorite color. I'm

going to want to know what you like to

eat, what you like to wear. I want to

know about your your family. I want to

know all these things about you. I'm so

interested. Why? Cuz I want to

understand you. And then we get happy

and then we just it becomes a measure of

how good can I feel with you and the

good and then you get married

[clears throat]

and it's better. It's for better or

worse, right? And then you just realize

I don't really like this worse part. I I

really just like the better part. And

all of a sudden you realize that things

get hard and you're in year seven of

your marriage and year 14 of your

marriage and you feel further drifted

apart cuz really you became less

interested

>> in them. You didn't get interested in

the hard. You were just interested in

what was the basics. You were good with

the basic facts. You weren't good for

the the deep stuff. you were. It gets to

be where if you really want to know and

test the strength of a relationship,

it's not the measure of how good do I

feel in the good times. It's how long

can I sit with them in the hard times. M

>> and when I can sit with you in what is

the deep struggle when we're both crying

when we're both 3 hours into the

argument and going I don't understand

why I can't communicate with you. I I

don't how did I ever like you in the

first place that's real that's raw. And

if I can still sit with you in it that

that's a type of connection that that

will last forever. It's, you know, I I

talk to so many couples and even older

couples of, you know, how do you how do

you do it with communicating? How do you

how do you do communication? So, well,

it's never

we have really big conversations,

[laughter]

you know, it's never that it's we know

that things are going to be hard and we

choose to stick through the hard. People

give up too easily. I mean, you you're

married. I'm married. It's they're a

fight. They they are an absolute fight

not between each other but for the

relationship. It's the relationship

versus everything else. Attention, time,

obligations, finances, kids. It's the

relationship versus everybody else.

>> Is there anything someone can ever say

that shows you they're not your person?

>> I don't care

about you. if they really don't have an

interest in caring about you. If if you

hear that I'm upset or you hear that

your wife's upset, you should care. I'm

not talking about the surface level

like, okay, I don't care about that

right now. I'm talking about the deep,

it does not affect me. When you're on

the ground and upset and face on the

floor and you're crying and it doesn't

affect you because you don't care, that

to me is they're not your

person.

If you want to know if somebody is your

person, have they asked how you're

doing? I've seen so many people go on

dates or have relationships and they

say, "Yeah, they they were nice, but I

don't think they ever really asked about

me. They just talked about themselves."

Is they just needed to, you know, rent

an ear for a little bit because they

just made it all about themselves. Those

are people that, you know, are not going

to be your people. If you want to know

if they are your person, you don't have

to ask them, why don't you ask about me?

They will naturally want to know more

about you. You don't have to ask. At

this one time where she a woman asked

me, you know, I went on a date and he

really didn't ask about me, you know,

that much. I'm not really sure what to

do. I said, don't go on another date.

[laughter]

Like if if they're not going to just ask

about you and the basics,

>> how could they ever want to know about

you when things are hard when they will

be hard? There's no getting a getting

around it. It they will be hard. That's

that's how you know if they they are

your person. They're willing to have the

deep hard conversation.

>> How do you know if your relationship

just has so many arguments that it's

beyond saving? How do you know that it's

gone too far?

>> When you look back and the other person

is 10 miles behind you.

>> Explain that.

>> When you're doing it alone, that you've

read all the books, you've read all the

materials, you're listening to all the

podcasts, you might be listening to this

episode and going, "I desperately want

to heal my marriage, my relationship. I

don't know what to do." Because most

likely they're the only ones with an ore

in their hand trying to paddle. and the

other person is just in the back with

their arms folded. I don't really I

don't want to be here. Does it not

bother you that we are in conflict right

now? I I mean I I don't really care.

It's really your fault. And they feel

like they're the only ones that are

there. These people that it doesn't

matter what technique you do. It doesn't

matter how much you push. They are

someone that will never try and reach

for you. M.

>> So, how do you know when it's enough

that you've put out your hand and

they're unwilling to take it?

>> And you just look back in the rearview

mirror and they're okay with leaving it.

>> Yeah. And I think the hard part is

sometimes people show these glimpses of

or rays of hope and then you believe

that and then they go back to being the

way they were.

>> Yeah. and they kind of oscillate between

showing you they care momentarily but

then going back to not caring and it's

so hard to know which one to invest in

and which one to believe.

>> Mhm. I think that the more honest of a

conversation you can have with that

person.

>> Yeah.

>> The more honest reflection of what kind

of relationship you have, like we talked

about at the beginning, Jay, if if I

can't have the hard conversation with

you, then how deep is our relationship?

Now if look look at the relationship

itself is it's if it's only surface

level conversations I'll show you a

surface level relationship but if you're

willing to have the hard talks no I can

show you much deeper relationship what's

your capacity for the difficult and yeah

people will show you the glimpses in

conversation of oh there's that person

there's that person that I I like and

then it's gone well that's because it's

it's only a side effect it's it's not

the main symptom

>> they are they're only putting on the

show to keep you entertained. They are

it's like a slot machine, you know? They

just want to keep you addicted just for

a little bit longer. And you have to

look back and go, what am I what am I

getting from this in real time? What am

I truly getting from this? Am I am I

enough just by myself?

>> I think that's the deeper issue of

feeling if I don't have this person, who

am I?

>> Yeah. And that's why we don't say how we

feel. It's why we mold who we are. It's

why we tolerate bad behavior and bad

words and bad communication because we

don't feel like we're fulfilled without

them.

>> So, we'd rather have a painful existence

with them than a potentially painful or

long-term non-p painful existence

without them.

>> And I appreciate what you're saying

because it shows that there are real

ramifications and consequences to poor

communication.

>> Yeah. Because I think a lot of us will

just tolerate and elongate

those periods hoping things will just

get better or go away. But the reality

is that people don't change their

communication patterns that quickly.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's a harsh reality. It's a harsh

truth.

>> Things don't change if things don't

change. I I know that when you have

those moments where you go, I I wish

things were were different in our

communication. Yeah. It takes that takes

time. That takes real raw vulnerability.

It is my belief that that love is

self-disclosure.

If I really want you to know me, I'm

going to disclose everything. And if I

want to know you, I need you to disclose

everything. I need radical honesty in

this relationship to know that I'm never

going to be too much. They need to know.

My wife needs to know. She's never going

to be too much. And when you can create

the element of safety in conversation,

you you create a relationship that can

be impenetrable

>> Mhm.

>> to anything from the outside. When

things get stressful and stuff and that

tension, you you kind of bond together,

right? But if there's a source in

between you and you can't address it, if

you can't take care of that, it's it's

never the outside in. It's always the

inside out that that ruins you.

>> That's how you know that they're your

person.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> When they're not too much.

>> Yeah.

>> For you.

>> You know, you have capacity for all the

range of everything that they are will

be and what they have to offer. you

know, their strengths as well as their

weaknesses, especially the weaknesses

because you and I, we have many.

>> Yeah, of course.

>> Yeah. So, so you're saying that if if

you don't have the capacity to handle

all of someone, then they may not be

right for you and you may not be right

for them.

>> That's exactly right.

>> Yeah.

>> If there is a mismatch in capacity to

deal with the messy, right? that they

say you can't if you can't be with me in

my hard times then you don't deserve me

at the

>> the best right that's absolutely true

especially in conversations if I can't

have the the grace the capacity by you

for me to say the wrong thing and you

realize that I did say the wrong thing

and there's a place for me to apologize

I mean repair has to happen

>> repair has to happen so that's it's on

me to do that now if I know that I don't

have the capacity in that moment to

absorb everything that is happening.

That's that's not going to to work. It's

not it's not for lack of love.

>> It's a lack of capacity.

>> What should a healthy repair

conversation look like? So, if you're

going to repair with someone cuz you

said something you don't mean or

someone's going to repair with you

saying something because they said

something they don't mean,

>> what should that conversation sound like

from their end or yours based on who did

the mistake? 99% of the time our

arguments are not what we're arguing

about. They are about the hidden need.

The need to feel understood, the need to

feel heard, the need to feel safe by

that other person. And things go so

south when I pick up the frustration or

I pick up the reaction and not listening

to the need. Every one of us, ourselves

included, we go into conversations with

these hidden fears of am I enough?

>> Mhm.

>> Am I enough if I get it wrong? Am I

enough if I look scared or I don't know

what to do or I don't know what to say

or will I be abandoned? Are they not

going to want me or do they not really

care? We we come in every single time to

one of these conversations and if I'm

just responding to the reaction rather

than addressing the need, there's always

going to be a mismatch. There's always

going to be conflict that is now

corrosive to the very fabric of the

conversation. Like say for example in in

a relationship somebody goes do you even

do you even care? Like I don't even

know. Do you even care? And what is the

guy they go? Oh this again really do I

care? Like okay this. Okay this is so

stupid. And what you're doing you're

you're tearing the very fabric of the

relationship when you are dismissive

over how there's a real feeling. So when

somebody is sharing that kind of

question with you and you treat them as

if that question is real because it is,

you change everything, how do you model

repair that you model it by saying, I

can totally see how you'd think that. I

can see how you'd be frustrated. You

know, if if that's the way you heard it,

I I don't blame you for being upset

about it. Of course you'd be upset about

that. It sounds like that sounds really

frustrating.

>> That sounds scary. I get the feeling you

you feel really hopeless right now. And

it's like, yes, that is exactly how I'm

feeling. You just you you want somebody

to understand how you're doing. I don't

need to agree with you to understand

you. I don't need to fix the problem to

meet the need. I just need to slow down

long enough to put aside the frustration

and the reaction and see the wound. It's

so clear that if we simply went into

every conversation or the next

conversation

just trying to understand how much would

be solved.

>> Yeah.

>> Because like you said, everyone's just

trying to get you to understand and

whether they're shouting. There's that

beautiful statement that I love from

Russell Barkley where he said that the

people that need the most love will ask

for it in the most unloving ways.

>> That's right. It's it's slowing down the

moment to say what do they need right

now that they don't have the words to

ask for? What are they asking for that

they don't have the words to say?

>> And when I can stop and say what is

happening here like you think like I

have we have two kids all right seven

and five. And when my son who's seven

was let's say three, right? And and if

he was crying, yelling, throwing

something, yelling no, uh throwing a

fit. You think I was going, I cannot

believe that you're raising your voice

right now. I are you kidding? You're

crying at me. Can you like you do you

not see all the things I'm doing? No. I

I go, "Oh, he's hungry. He's upset. He's

scared. You know, he's he's sleepy. It's

it's his bedtime." It's the same thing.

It's the same basic human needs in every

single one of us. It is. I will shout it

to the rooftop. They are not fighting

you. They are fighting to feel

understood by you. And when you can

address that understanding by using

words of repair, everything changes.

Repair.

Validation. Validation is not weakness.

It is repair. And that that's the

measure of a true relationship. How

quick can I get to repair? Relationships

don't fall apart because of one big

failure. They fall apart because of the

hundred micro moments where repair could

have happened but it didn't. [snorts]

>> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. These

little cracks.

>> Yeah.

>> Fissures. It's the paper cuts that you

go 5 years, 10 years, 30 years, and you

look back and go,

>> but there's just been so much. How can I

possibly address it? There wasn't some

big moment. It's all these little

moments for repair that you just chose

to to go by. That's why every single one

is is truly important. So when you get

dismissive and go, really this Oh, here

we go again. Here she goes. You're just

you're choosing to not repair. And if

you understand and sign can sign your

name to a piece of paper that says, "I'm

choosing my frustration over her piece."

Sign your name to it. If you can sign

that with a straight face and give it to

her,

then congratulations. You've you've lost

the relationship. That's what that's

what you're doing. You're signing your

name away to the end of it.