Gen Z is dating significantly less than

other generations. What has changed?

>> I ask a question in all my audiences at

this moment. Did you grow up playing

freely on the street?

>> The parents of Gen Z will raise their

hands and say we did. And then I ask, do

your children or do you know children

who are playing freely on the street?

And you get a few hands. That's it.

That's the Gen Z. If you don't play

freely on the street, you basically are

missing out on an entire ground for

social negotiation where you learn to

play together, to make rules, to break

rules, to have wars, to make peace, to

create alliances, to make up the whole

thing. If you don't practice those

muscles

where you come up to strangers and you

ask them to play with you and then you

meet somebody else and then you join

people together,

you really are practicing relationships.

All of that precedes dating. If you

don't have that, then dating becomes the

the first time that you have to actually

learn to speak to someone, god forbid,

if it's even in person, and look into

their eyes and look at their body

because so much of our life at this

point is completely disembodied and we

don't ever see people move.

>> Wow. Never even thought that. So dating

becomes this Olympus that you have to

climb this whole mountain and it's very

anxietyprovoking

and that is one of the main things. So

when we say Gen Z doesn't date as much,

Gen Z doesn't socialize in person, Gen Z

doesn't have that many parties, what a

waste, what a pity to not have dance

parties and and just hang together. Um

it's not that they don't socialize, but

it's a different kind of social. I spoke

to so and so means I texted them. M

>> no I didn't speak I didn't hear the

voice. If you don't hear the voice

you're missing out on the entire

oxytocin attachment hormone that gets

produced while you're hearing the voice.

The voice is the first thing you hear

when you are in utero. So you say you

spoke but you didn't. You connected you

had contact. And at every level you see

an atrophy of the social skills which

creates a real sense of bracing myself.

I'm going out to date, which I don't

like because it's not fun.

>> You're so right. And you're opening up

my mind to so many different things that

I don't think we're thinking about. This

idea of being disembodied. We're only

looking at FaceTime.

>> And not just that, now I look in your

eyes, you look in my eyes, and we have

mirror neurons firing at each other. We

are really connecting. Voice, sight,

breath. I mean the all the senses are

involved on Zoom or on on any screen.

>> We think we're looking at the other but

we actually are not making eye contact.

>> So this pseudo experience as if I am

looking at you and you're looking at me

but in fact we don't means that

neurologically none of this is actually

happening.

>> Wow. Yeah, you're so right. And most of

us on Zoom are just looking at

ourselves. I started to hide myself for

you because I just realized that you're

just looking at yourself and you're

looking at your reflection so much.

We're we're overexposed to our own

reflection which is why we're so

critical of ourselves and we're so we're

evaluating and analyzing ourselves all

the time. But you're absolutely right

that

>> even if you look at someone else through

a screen, you're not making the quality

of content we feel. And there's a reason

I I actually feel that I feel exhausted

on Zooms and exhausted on digital

contact. That is a part of that is

because the actual connect contact which

is soothing eye to eye contact and when

you are in a safe situation is actually

soothing. It regulates you when it is as

if but not really and nothing really

happens up there then you are exhausted

and you know what it means to look at

yourself the whole day. It's like the

the the enshrinement of nar narcissism.

>> Absolutely. Look here, narcissist, he

used to look at himself in the in the

water and look at his reflection the

whole time

>> and and it's the same as what you're

saying with the lack of contact where

you say, "Oh, yeah, I spoke to so and so

or I heard from them and you're so right

that we're missing out on these very

analog behaviors that our body's

craving, our mind is craving, and we're

not really in touch." I read this study

that said 45% of men aged 16 to 25 today

have never approached a woman in public.

And I was thinking I grew up at a time

where all we did was have to pluck up

the courage to walk over to a woman in a

bar at the mall wherever it was to just

say, "Hey, you're cute." Or like, "Hey,

can I get your number? Hey, can I

whatever it was?" And I remember how

stressful that was as a man. So I

realized that there's stress. But today,

do you think it's a fear of rejection?

Do you think it's a lack of social

skills as you're mentioning? Where's

that coming from?

>> So, I think there's a number of

different things going on at the same

time. Continuing with less social

interaction is also the fact that we're

more and more living in a contactless

world. You don't have to leave your

house for a lot of things that you know,

it's not just you would come up to the

girl and start talking to her. Since the

pandemic, we learned we didn't have to

leave the house to go to school. and the

and the 18 to 25 year old is the

generation that went to school during

the pandemic. So that's the first thing

is a complete cut off of the socialized

world. You don't have to leave your

house to work to shop to eat to exercise

contactless. You can have everything

delivered without having to even thank

the person who is bringing the food. At

every level we have tried to remove

contact and friction.

Coming up to talk to a girl is friction.

You don't know. There is you fantasize.

You know you I'm thinking of a story

that a friend of mine just told me when

he was sitting on a train and for 5

hours he saw this girl and he just was

thinking he would love to go and talk to

her but he couldn't muster the courage

to go speak with her. Finally after 5

hours he gets up he goes he talks and

for the rest they been spend a week

traveling together in Europe. And then

he tells me if I was today, he's a

father of a Gen Z. If I would be

spending my five hours writing to my AI

companion, what should I say? I'm

anxious. I don't know how to go. He

would have basically spent his time

trying to regulate his nervous system

and try to calm down. But he would never

have he would have talked to the to his

AI [laughter] rather than to the girl.

And he would have talked to the AI about

how hard it is to go and meet this girl.

and he would never have traveled with

her for the week. And [clears throat]

this removing of the friction. So what

is to me the killer of desire. We'll

come back to that. But what happens in

when in your statistic is 18 to 25

>> in your time you basically started this

whole process of meeting girls or boys

meeting boys, girls meeting girls in

your teens. Mhm.

>> So 15 16 you were practicing, you were

falling in love, you had crushes, you

dealt with rejection, you rejected

others, it went both ways, etc. Most Gen

Z today start their first experiences

around 24, 26.

>> Wow.

>> So the whole thing is delayed by 10

years.

>> Yeah.

>> But when you meet at 24, 25 for the

first time, you often meet with the lack

of experience of the 15year-old. You

haven't had that slow buildup, you know,

and you didn't have sex the first time

necessarily either, but first you spoke,

then you hung, then you you you spend

the day together, then you met you

brought them to your friends. You had an

entire process of engagement that made

you more and more comfortable each time.

>> That whole training launching pad has

been shrunken to dating. You'd never

called it dating, by the way, before.

You I'm interested. I like someone. I

would like to speak with this person. I

have a crush on this person. I fell in

love with this person. You didn't date.

You just had these feelings that took

you.

>> I feel like we're living at a time where

conversations about therapy, about our

emotions, about love.

>> Online, you see them everywhere.

Everyone's talking about it. Everyone's

thinking about it. But then we don't

translate it into real life. We're more

disconnected than ever. So talk to me

about that dichotomy. I think that we

are living a fantastic contradiction.

We've never been more connected and we

have never been more disconnected.

Modern loneliness masks itself as

hyperconivity.

So you think you're talking

>> oh yeah

>> to people and I would say even more like

this monoloneliness is not about not

having people. It's about the lack of

depth.

>> It doesn't replace to have these

conversations online. And in fact,

they're often done in 9 seconds

increments. That is not really the time

needed to address major existential

questions.

>> If you don't see the person you're

talking to, you can express yourself in

all kinds of univilized way [gasps]

because there is no consequences. So

that contradiction of of what does it

mean to really connect

>> and what are the conditions necessary?

What and that is back to this issue of

friction. Because it means that you

practice

disagreement, frustration, being

misunderstood,

understanding others, truly listening,

listening again because you thought you

got it, but you didn't really cuz you

didn't listen till the end. Cuz half the

time when we listen, we're busy with our

rebuttal.

>> That's a different degree of connection.

>> Yeah.

>> Ask a question when you somebody tells

you something before you draw a

conclusion about what they're saying.

ask another question. Listen really

don't jump for advice because you are

the one you are not the one who's going

to live with the consequences of the

advice that you're giving. So look at

things in context. Don't just take out

one thing like that. And all of that is

the difference between our conversation

and how this can appear when we go

online. I think one of the biggest

things that you're sharing that's kind

of I'm becoming aware of in our

conversation is that a reason why we're

scared to message and reply is also

because everything's documented today.

So there's a feeling of like if I send

something to you and it makes me look

stupid, you're going to send it to all

your friends. If you share something

with me and I want to pass it on to

someone, it takes one click and all of a

sudden it's on the internet. And so

there's this genuine fear of not only am

I being evaluated by this person,

>> but I'm potentially being evaluated by

their entire circle. Do you see the

irony here? We have never talked more

about boundaries in relationships as

today at a time when people are often

acting without any boundaries and

sharing the most personal profound

things that people give them in

confidence with others. the leakages,

this system of sharing and spreading

without necessarily asking and

ridiculing and judging and exposing and

all of that is happening at the same

time as people are talking constantly

about safety and boundaries and

protection. It's really interesting. No.

>> Yeah. It's it's it's fascinating

because

>> there's no privacy.

>> There's no privacy.

>> There's no privacy. There's no safety.

So there's no safety and it's no longer

even transparency because it

transparency means we we speak out

openly about things. This is really you

are basically speaking with

surveillance.

You are constantly watching how are

people going what are people going to do

with what you're saying? How are they

going to twist your privacy, your

private life, your your deepest feelings

and and and how they can snitch it and

put it together and reinterpreted that

leaves people suspicious, fearful,

actually disconnected, more lonely,

constantly wondering about who can I

trust? What is trust? And then hoping

that by having more boundaries they can

fortify all of this. But in fact the

world doesn't have the boundaries.

>> So how does anyone in this moment even

think about building connection

>> offline go offline? A connection is an

encounter and it's an encounter with an

other. And that otherness is the mystery

of relationships. That curiosity that

you bring to discovering someone. We've

met a few times but we don't know each

other. And I'm intrigued by you and I'm

curious where you're going to take us.

Where is this conversation going to go?

What are you going to ask? What what I'm

saying is interesting to you. I'm not

busy here thinking does Jay like what

I'm saying? Is Jay thinking that I'm

smart? Is Jay thinking I'm stupid? Is

Jay waiting to bait me with something?

I'm with you. I'm present. And that's

very different from I'm here

>> and I feel your presence with me. That's

not just you're here. You know much of

the time these days even if we are

sitting together I ask this is a

question I love to ask in an audience

how many of you spend a lot of time of

the day on your laptop [laughter] in

front of a screen whatever it is and all

you want is to finally go home and get

rid of the screen but then you get home

and you're so tired that what you do is

you watch TV and then while you're

watching TV you're also scrolling on

your phone and then you turn around and

there is someone sometimes sitting right

next to you who's doing the exact same

thing. And then at some point, someone

says something actually quite

meaningful.

And then you have this other person

responding with that most fantastic

Uh-huh. [laughter]

Uh-huh. And you know that digital lag

means they're there, but they're not

really listening.

>> And in that moment, you experience a

unique kind of loneliness. It's the

loneliness that says, "Are you here or

are you not?"

>> We call it in my work ambiguous loss.

Have you ever heard that term?

>> No, I haven't.

>> Ambiguous loss is a term that was coined

by psychologist Pauline Boss when she

was talking about situations where you

can't resolve the morning. Like if you

are with someone with Alzheimer or

dementia, they are physically in front

of you, but they are emotionally or

psychologically gone.

If they have been deployed or there is

abduction or they are miscarriages, they

are physically gone but they are

emotionally very very present and in

both situations you don't know are you

here or are you not modern loneliness

has that element on a daily basis where

I don't know if you're here. It's like

we've come to accept distracted

attention as if it is enough and it's

not. And all of those situations make us

feel like I'm putting out such efforts

and I feel exhausted

>> because it's not really coming back.

>> Yeah. It's it's so real. And I think

that's how a lot of people feel today

that they're saying I want to find love.

We all want connection, but then the

action to get it, as you said, which

requires a bit of friction, which

requires a bit of discomfort. There is

no love story that isn't organized

around overcoming obstacles,

>> right?

>> The greatest love stories have an

obstacle that you have to they almost

didn't going to meet again. They they

never asked each other's names. The

parents didn't want them to be together.

The age difference was too big. What you

need an obstacle. Attraction

[clears throat] plus obstacle equals

excitement, love, desire. It is that

combination,

>> right? So the obstacle is the way.

>> The obstacle is what builds the plot,

what heightens the intensity, what

intensifies the love.

>> And what we want in the frictionless

reality is a love like permanent state

of enthusiasm.

>> And love is not a permanent state of

love is not about finding people who

agree with you and who like the same

things as you. Love is actually this

being discovered by someone from whom

you're different. It doesn't match

algorithmic perfections.

>> So if someone said to you today as to

what skill should I be developing to be

better at love and connection, what

would you encourage them to pursue?

>> Skill number one, curiosity

>> of the other person

>> of the other person. Curiosity,

it's a discovery. It's a journey. It's

an exploration of difference. That is

one of the things that love it is that

loving of that difference that is at the

core of the experience. Humor so that

you don't take yourself too seriously

and you understand that half the things

are not worth fighting for

>> that it doesn't really matter that from

1 to 10 most [clears throat] things are

a two or a three and if you live with

from 1 to 10 everything is a nine then

you need have some work to do. There are

seven verbs I really love to if I think

what does one need to learn to ask.

They're not in order of importance. How

good are you at asking?

>> For what you want and need.

>> For what you want, for what you need.

Asking is a relational verb that you

learn to conjugate. I think in verbs

because I speak multiple languages and

every time I'd learn a new one, I kind

of look at what are the key verbs you

need to have to build the structure of

the language so that you can

communicate. Are you good at asking? Do

you know what to ask for? Do you believe

that you're worthy of being given to

what it is you're asking for that people

will respond to you? Do you know to be

clear about your expectations? Asking is

about expectation. Giving. How is your

giving? Do you experience generosity? Do

you enjoy the giving or do you give in

order to not owe anything to people? Do

you give so you don't have to feel

guilty? Do you give to square, you know,

and even out what they gave you? But

giving is amazing. It's an amazing

feeling and it's an amazing experience

in relationships. Receiving, how good

are you at receiving? It's probably the

most vulnerable of all the verbs to be

given to because it speaks to your sense

of selfworth, to how much you feel

deserving, to experience closeness,

pleasure, connection, intimacy,

you know, receiving. Um it it it tells a

world about you sharing. Can you think

about another? You and your wife have a

very different idea about what to do on

Saturday morning. How do you share that

difference? And it's not we come to the

middle and we compromise. It's how do

you in integrate the various things that

are important to each of you play them

out in different ways and every person

feels acknowledged and recognized and

valued. Imagination. Imagination is the

ability to dream, to imagine a future,

to project yourself ahead, to build a

life project.

Refusing, can you say no? Is it a

relationship where people can

comfortably say no?

>> Because if you can't say yes, you can't

say no. But saying no is essential and

not indirect and not with coercive

measures. Just simply I prefer not.

Knowing that when you say no, the other

person may not like it and they are

entitled not to like it like you are

entitled not to want it.

>> These two shall coexist. These probably

are the primary verbs add to that

curiosity and all that because they are

relational verbs. You can't do them just

alone.

>> Yeah. I mean, yeah, you can give to

yourself and you can receive from that

giving, but essentially they practice

with you how to relate to another person

and how to receive the relatedness of

others on you.

>> Yes. Yes. So well said. So well said. I

love those. I hope everyone's going to

listen back to that because those verbs

make it just feel it makes it feel

active and alive. And I think dating

today feels very either transactional or

checking like our mind is lost.

>> Many first dates are like job

interviews. Yes, exactly. Yeah,

>> it's really not fun. I mean, fun is the

word that has to, you know, at the end

of a date, you have to be intrigued. You

you need to want more, not you need to

be evaluating your checklist. Different

story. That's the the story of of of how

you build how you build love. It's not

something you instant, you know, you

can't sit there, ask questions, then

look here and hope that you feel some

butterflies and some tingling and say,

"Nah, nothing's happening." That's not

I'm not feeling it. Um, okay. We've had

the coffee. I don't want to really have

that lunch. I'm just going to No.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So true.

>> But turn around. Somebody's standing in

line. Turn around at the counter. Turn

around in front of the barista. There is

people around you all the time. Every

stranger is a potential best friend or

person that you could fall in love with.

And you have no idea. But you've got to

remain open to serendipity.

>> Yeah. And now we feel so weird when

we're in public and alone that we pick

out our phone because we'd rather not

make eye contact. Like it almost feels

cringe or weird to make eye contact with

someone because you're scared of them

looking at you in one sense or you're

scared of looking at them because we're

not as exposed to it. And so we'd rather

just take out our phone because it's a

easier way to wait in a line.

>> That's social out. And that has

consequences for everything else. you're

in trouble. Nobody will reach out

because your statistic about the the the

the young man who doesn't reach out to a

woman or doesn't make contact. It's the

same as the who has a best friend, who

has someone to call when you're in

trouble. Who can you ask for help? Who

do you go out with? I mean, these things

are interconnected. If you don't

socialize properly, you also feel more

lonely. And if you feel more lonely, you

become more isolated. You become more

isolated, you become more anxious. You

become more anxious. You make sure never

to leave your phone when you're in an

elevator. You become more anxious. You

become more depressed. This is like a a

big of a chain of events that take us

down.