Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts, radio,

news.

I'm Hannah Elliot.

>> And I'm Matt Miller. This is Hot

Pursuit.

[music]

>> I've been driving the most boring BMW,

[music] but it's like definitely all you

need.

>> Okay. What's that? The BMW 540i

X drive is the one I've been driving and

it's got just the normal inline 6 like 3

liter turbocharged inline 6 BMW motor

and it's a peach

>> a

>> and like every time I would I look at it

my driveway I'd say that's not really a

very special car but it's I get in it

and it's a pleasure to drive and it's

got enough room for the family and I you

know I'm happy to go on all the errands

and like it's so funny cuz It doesn't

evoke like any emotion at all when you

look at it. It's just a white,

>> you know, five series, which might as

well be a seven series cuz they're now

bigger than the seven series were when I

was a kid. They're huge.

>> Um, but not too big. It's just it's so

funny um

that I can I can comment on that a

little [clears throat] bit.

>> You've Okay, great. Great.

Um, are you ready to do I can kick us

off if you want.

>> Yeah. I'm Hannah Elliot.

>> And I'm Matt Miller. This is Hot

Pursuit.

>> Music stings. Coming up on today's

podcast, we are talking to Kai Lurman,

who you may not recognize the name, but

I guarantee you you recognize a lot of

things he's worked on and been sort of

the man behind the curtain. You might

have heard of the Quail of Motorsports

Gathering, which Kai was the

orchestrator of that for many years. And

now he is on to do some very exciting

things at Willow Springs Track and with

Goodwood. You might have heard of a

little car meet called Goodwood and uh

some stuff going up on on up in Montana

as well.

>> Yeah, I think it's um like in the car

enthusiast sitegeist, the

purchase of Willow Springs and then the

um progress of the renovation or

whatever you want to call it and what

they're going to do with it. uh has been

something you hear about for the past

couple of years now

>> and it seems to be uh so important to

people who live around there and who

spend a lot of time there but it's also

part of this big

>> um this big car enthusiast web right

because

>> yes

>> he works for a company owned by Cross

Harbor is also an investor in a NASCAR

team with um Nighthead

owned

uh singer as well as I think Icon now

plus um Revology and Lemon.

>> Yeah. And so like

>> there's this big web of people that are

at the heart of the car culture and

that's all comes together in in what Kai

is doing. So very cool.

>> Totally. Yes. To I think it's really

fascinating. It's great that you point

that out, Matt, because, you know, when

you go to these sort of disparate

events, you don't really think about who

is producing them, who is planning them,

who is funding them. And when you start

to follow those threads, you realize

it's a it's actually a relatively small

group these days. And half the time

they're working together or have some,

you know, common interests. And it to me

it's fascinating to talk to these people

behind a lot of what's happening in car

culture. For sure. And then I mean you

go to all these events, but there's the

incelss like me sitting at home that

just read about these things.

>> Um it's called being a family man with

three young children.

>> Exactly. So I'm home. I'm like home

reading about Goodwood. I'm reading

about and hearing about the quail. And

um by the way, in the interview I

mentioned that Doug Demiro's friend

Kenneth uh bought a car to get in the

quail. I realized that first of all

there's no one named Kenneth on that

podcast. Oh,

>> it's Kenan. And secondly, it's Nick who

bought the SLR. So I'll preemptively

correct myself. That's great.

>> Um but but like so I hear about this

stuff, right? I hear about people um

>> uh Spike Ferris or Matt Farah talking

about how important Willow Springs is.

And I've never been to these places, but

it's so funny to me that they're all

connected. It's like less than six

degrees of separation between Willow

Springs, The Quail, Goodwood, you know,

Singer. And so, it's interesting to me

to hear um to hear about these

relationships and what they have planned

cuz it seems like things are brewing.

Like everything is growing.

>> Yeah. Everything is just like

exponentially getting bigger. There's a

lot of money behind it right now. And I

think that's a good thing for us who

love cars and want to go to events. I

mean, shoot. Take like throw throw an

arrow and you'll hit something that you

can go to.

>> By the way, um I know I remembered last

week when we were doing this intro thing

uh before we got into our conversation,

we said we'll talk about the Ferrari 296

challenge and then we never did.

>> Whoops. All right, we're going to make

up for it right now.

>> If somebody was listening and now and

then came away thinking, "Wait, they

never talked about the Ferrari 296

challenge." and then googled it and

realized there isn't a 296 challenge.

That's because

>> it's a rumor, right? It's it's not

confirmed, but there have been

>> um people reporting uh I think the super

maybe supercar blondie or the supercar

blog or whatever that that they're going

to come out with a new version, a

non-hybrid version of the 296, which now

you know we know the existing one is a

hybrid. It has the

>> 3 L twin turbo V6. I'll stand behind

that.

>> You've driven it. I've not I've not

obviously been near a Ferrari since the

FF. So,

>> well, you're following closely. I mean,

you're the one who's telling me about

this rumor, which is great. Like, as

far,

>> but you've driven the actual existing

296, and I thought it was great. It's

fun. It's fun. What more can you ask

for? It's fun. It's dramatic. It looks

beautiful.

>> What more can I ask for? I can ask for

twice the cylinders and a stick

[laughter] shift.

>> I don't think that's necessarily more

fun.

>> I'm sure you're right. I'm sure. Look,

if I were given a 296 to drive, even for

a day, I would probably never forget the

experience. I'm sure it's amazing. And I

know some guys, some here in New York, I

know some Wall Street dudes who are

hoping to someday get the 12cylinder.

And so, they have purchased the 296.

>> Very beautiful of

>> in order to get into the dealer's good

graces. And they they say uh without

exception that they absolutely love it.

>> Yeah, I know. It's Here's the thing. And

and yes, I agree.

We love the two. I'll say I love the

296. Now, might I like a 296 CS better?

May maybe I love it better.

>> Sure. It doesn't mean we don't also love

the 296, but do we love some things more

than we love other things?

>> Yeah. So, there's a rumor that Ferrari

will debut,

>> first of all, a track only version of

the 296 on uh next week um at a track

somewhere, the Hungaro ring. I don't

even know where that is.

>> I just read it. And there are spy shots

showing like a huge whale tail or a swan

neck rear wing on a 296 challenge uh

track only challenge race car with an

aggressive front spoiler and a center X

exhaust. And what people are saying is

that they took out basically the uh

electric motor and the battery which is

going to save some 100 or 200 lb in

between that and basically bring it down

to less than 1300 kg or less than uh

2900 lb. It'll be reportedly 2,866

lb which is very light for a modern car

and still have the 700 plus horsepower.

or I think 720 horsepower that the gas

motor alone provides. And if you have

less than 3,000 lb and more than 700

horsepower, it's going to be a blast.

>> Oh, wow. Totally. Giddy up. Hold on

tight. That That could be really great.

>> That's the rumor.

>> I'm looking at I'm looking at spy shots.

I mean, it's so hard these days to

figure out if something's like a

rendering, an AI. True.

>> Uh actual photo, but I'm seeing what I

think is the Hungaro ring. Ferrari 29

>> Hungaro ring.

>> Yeah. Um got to spellch checkck that

one. But yeah, could be cool. Could be

cool.

>> Yeah, I willing I will still probably

never drive one. And uh certainly

>> I think [laughter]

I think that run's going to come to an

end pretty soon. Matt, I bet when you

come to LA this fall, someone will let

you drive their Ferrari. It's going to

be nice weather.

>> By the way, that's exciting. Did I tell

you I'm coming? I told you I'm coming.

>> Yes. Oh, yes.

>> Yeah. On October 24th, I'm going to

>> my entire month

>> in San Francisco. And then after that,

I'm coming straight down to LA to visit

you.

>> Okay.

>> To visit Matt Padet, my buddy Michael

Hos, my brother-in-law Louise. I can't

wait.

>> Are you driving or are you flying from

San Fran?

>> I imagine that we'll drive. I because I

have

>> like three kids and a wife in tow or she

has a husband and three kids in tow. So,

>> um yeah, we'll

>> drive could be fun.

>> Maybe we'll rent some giant SUV and

drive it down.

>> Get a press car, get get, you know, uh

get Barbosa on the line. It doesn't

always work that way. But it will be

that will be after the raptor rally

>> which I am

>> that's one of these years

>> which I am very much hoping to go to.

>> Yeah.

>> Um at Lake Havsu. And so maybe Yeah,

maybe I'll put the kids in the back of a

Raptor

>> and drive them down. By the way, I want

to talk about a car that is uh that I'm

driving this week or I was driving and

is much less exciting.

>> Okay. In fact, I walk would walk out to

my driveway and see this BMW 540i

and think like it's in in white almost

as if they didn't even bother to paint

it a color [laughter]

>> and um it looks so boring and then I

it's the 540 which used to mean that it

had the 4 L V8 but since they've uh BMW

kind of split apart from reality in

terms of nomenclature now it means that

it has the 3 L

>> uh

words in line.

>> Exactly. And so I would think

>> that's kind of lame. And when you open

it and close it, the doors make even a

really boring sound.

>> It's no kind of good thunk like a G

Wagon. No. And it it seems like it's not

going to be. But then I get into it

>> and the motor is a peach. Like people

talk about enthusiasts like BMW people

talk about the B-58 motor

>> all the time. like this is some

bulletproof motor that delivers enough

power to just be exciting to drive at

any time. And I have to agree like

>> oh

>> um you know as press cars we always get

these V8s or these special you know

hybrids. Last time I uh drove a BMW as a

press car it was the XM and you know

otherwise I've had you know the the M8

or all the M2 that you drove that we

drove. Um, they're awesome, but this

regular motor I I get into this regular

boring car. It's a four-door sedan with

the regular normal BMW engine, and it

just it blows me away every time I drive

it. Like, I'm having so much fun driving

it. It does everything I need it to do.

>> You really don't need more. And

>> I guess that's not an exciting story,

but I just wanted to share.

>> It is an exciting story because it makes

me think, can you learn to love a car?

>> Yeah. You know,

>> I kind of wonder the same thing. Like if

I was going to buy a car and I'm, you

know,

not made of money. I don't want to

splurge on everything I do. So maybe I

would say, "Let me just buy the regular

one." And would I felt like I settled?

But with this motor, I would not feel

like I settled. I

>> Well, that's great. That's great. I

mean, I don't

I It goes back to the right tool for the

job. and you're lucky enough that you

have a couple different vehicles and you

have access to a couple a few more. So,

it's not wrong to h that you would have

one that is exactly as you describe.

>> Yeah. That's just um I you know I have

the V12 the 760 in my garage and then I

drive this 540 around and I'm like

>> do I just love the 760 because I know it

has 12 cylinders because I don't know if

it's really more fun to drive than the

540.

>> Oh wow. Oh really getting somewhere

deep. I mean, it's there's like a

cosplay thing that I'm that embarrasses

me a little bit like, uh, do I really

need the more special motor if the

normal one can deliver? And I'm sure

that there are BMW blogs where they talk

about this day and night.

>> Surely. Surely, fascinating.

>> I will tell you that yesterday, uh, the

guys from FMI came to my house to swap

cars. Tom, thank you.

And I didn't realize it, but he brought

me a Cadillac CT5V

Blackwing.

>> What?

>> With a manual transmission and the

precision package. And I It was so funny

to see that contrasted with this

>> BMW 5 series cuz of course the CT5 is

Cadillac's

>> 5 series equivalent.

>> Sure. You know, in my head, I classify

all sedans compared to like is it their

3 series, is it their 5 series, is it

their seven? Like

>> so beamer of it,

>> you know, or I think is it their A4,

their A6, or their A8, right?

>> Everything falls into those categories

of sedans. And then I thought, um, I've

been so positively impressed by BMW over

this whole week, but when you put it

next to the CTV5,

CT5V Blackwing, then I think, why is BMW

sleeping? Like, why aren't they how come

Cadillac is the only manufacturer doing

God's work? Like putting a V8 with a

manual transmission in a four-door

sedan. Who else does that these days?

And it's a supercharged V8, by the way,

making over 660

horsepower. Who else is doing that?

>> Nobody.

>> I guess nobody.

>> I'm thinking like,

>> does obviously uh BMW doesn't do this?

Cuz there's no manual transmission in

the M5. Um

>> What about AMG? Something in the

>> They don't make any manual trans AMG is

>> You're not Well, you're not getting

manual. You're not going to get manual

any. But in terms of the engine,

>> the engine,

>> it's all I mean, Europeans love

turbochargers. We talked about this,

right? Americans love superchargers, but

um they're not doing it. Audi doesn't do

that. They make an awesome car in that

category with the RS6 and now the RS5,

but

>> no manual transmission. Um,

>> and nobody else in America does it. like

Ford does it with the Mustang, but so

far the Mustang is only a two-door

vehicle. Now, maybe there's hope that

they'll come out with a four-door

V8 manual transmission,

you know, in the under the Mustang. What

about What about the

AMG

GT63

four-door coupe,

which does have a V8,

>> but that's a tur that's a turbo and it's

a hybrid. So, I know it's not the same.

>> It's not,

>> but because it's the it's the three

pedals that really make the difference.

It's that's what makes it more fun to

drive. That's what brings it one step

higher than any super car, four-door

supercar that's made in Germany.

>> And obviously none are made here, but

you know, that's that's what elevates

it, right? And I don't know. I've got to

ask uh Mark Roy um because I'm sure that

he's the one.

>> They're not making any money on that.

>> I don't know. Are they not making any

money on it? Is it not a good business

case?

>> I'm sure it's a lawsuit. They keep

bringing it. They keep bringing out new

versions though or new annually making

making it again. And I keep thinking I

remember when I moved here I thought

okay that they're not going to make that

anymore.

>> I know a guy who bought one cuz he was

like this is not long for this world

right but they keep making new ones. And

they are absolutely phenomenal and also

a little scary in a way that those

German sedans just aren't like this

thing loses the rear end when you when

you think about the accelerator.

>> Yeah. Um, like how come

for God's sake Cadillac? Would you

expect Cadillac to be the only brand in

the world that has the coonus

to do this? I mean, basically this is

>> this is this a 2026 model year?

>> It is.

>> It's courage. It's courage that they

have.

>> Yeah. I think of it might be sort of

like, you know, the New Yorker magazine

as a loss leader for Conde Nast because

it's the jewel and the crown and it it

it lends another layer of prestige and

and uh you know

>> I don't know cuz it's not that nobody in

the mainstream knows about this. It's

not like a Corvette, that's for sure.

>> It's not like a Corvette or a Mustang or

a 911. It's not the car that's bringing

No one's going into a Cadillac dealer

because

>> she knows that she might be able to see

a Blackwing in there. Like, it's only

for us. They're only doing this for us.

>> According to the Cadillac VNET forum,

and we're going to take this with a

grain of salt, but a quick

>> I'm a member. I'm a member of that

forum.

>> Are you? Okay. So, all right. Maybe we

could They're saying that in the US last

year 621 units were delivered. So, that

gives you an idea. Canada got 62 of them

for the entire year across all of

Canada.

>> That's

>> Is that actually more than you expected?

>> That's No, it's far less than I expected

because if you have the money, like if I

had the money

>> uh to buy another car

>> or if I had the money to buy this car, I

would 100%

>> and for sure buy it,

>> right? I mean, I can't It's It's like

the one I'm driving is 143,000. that.

Wow, that's a lot.

>> So, um, and and the and the one knock on

it, I will say, and I don't mean this,

uh,

>> how it looks.

>> I hope Mark's not looking, is the way it

looks, right?

>> I know. Well, I I wasn't going to be so

shallow as to bring it up quite yet, but

>> I was thinking this and I I haven't

spent a week with it yet. I've only

driven it one day.

>> Yeah,

>> but I'm

>> We can discuss more next week.

>> I I've I've driven this year the

Lamborghini Torio. I've driven the Aston

Martin Vanquish. Um, you know, I've

driven these uh the BMW, the M2, and um

that I that I love. And I would rather

have the Blackwing than any of those. If

it weren't about the money

if it weren't about the price, like

obviously I'm taking among all those.

>> We're dreaming here. Yeah.

>> The Aston Martin because then I'll sell

it and buy two or something else. If it

weren't about the money, like if it were

just about the driving experience, I

would have this car over any of those.

>> What color would you

>> Because it has three pedals that if you

can put a third pedal in there and if

you can operate the mechanical, you

know, vehicle yourself, then it's worth

it.

>> Yeah, I

>> But it's not But it's not a looker.

>> No, it it doesn't align with my

aesthetics or sense of taste at all. Um,

what color would you get, Matt? I mean,

there are very few choices. I probably

would get like Lakeshore Blue. I don't

even know, by the way, what they call

these colors in Cadillac speak because

GMC, Chevy, and Cadillac, uh, they all

have for the same colors, they have

different names. So, I know that Chev

for Chevy Lakeshore Blue, which for GMC

is called Downpour Metallic. That's a

color I'm partial to.

>> Nice. I also love Chevy makes a color

called um Cypress. Wait, Cypress Gray.

That's kind of like an army green sort

of but cooler than that.

>> That'd be very cool.

>> Uh and GMC calls it midnight pine. I

don't know what Cadillac calls it or if

you can get the Cadillac in those

colors. Um Corvette has some great

colors. They have a Sebring orange that

I love.

>> Uh and they have a purple. I don't maybe

they just call it purple. Um,

>> so I don't know what color I would get.

You they don't usually offer you many

choices with these. There's no, as far

as I know, there's no paint to sample.

>> Uh, I have not heard of that, but they

should for Cadillac, but

>> they should do that,

>> man. Uh, I can't wait to spend the next

week driving this thing. And then I'm

just And I just want to know how come

somebody at BMW doesn't say, "Yo, if

Cadillac can do that, I'm putting three

pedals in the M5." And also make and

also making it go on a diet and also

going to try and make it better looking

cuz Cadillac, the Cadillac CT5V

Blackwing, not a pretty car, but I think

it's better looking than the M5

>> cuz that thing is that thing is all

kinds of ugly.

>> The M5.

Do you not think so? Is that too blunt?

>> No.

>> Are we going to edit this? We have to

edit this.

>> We don't We don't have to edit anything.

No, this is

>> um I don't think that I'm just kind of

thinking like, wait, what what's so ugly

about the M5?

>> It's just a big fat blob. It just is a

car that needs to

>> I'm try I'm really racking my brain like

what could you possibly uh object to?

>> It needs to eat far less carbs and

>> it's inoffensive though. It's just kind

of there.

>> It's nothing good. There's nothing good

about it. the whole 5 series like the

one I the one I kind of stealth loved

last week just it's not a good-look

vehicle you know

>> but the one that the 5 series that you

have not the M5 but the the 5 series

that you just went on about and called a

peach

>> the engine's a peach the motor's a peach

the car the car is like jack of all

trades and can do a lot of stuff it's

like a Swiss Army knife of

>> but you're not offend you're not

personally offended by how that car

looks

>> it just is not good-looking I mean

>> I put it next to my 760, my M760 from

2020. And it's

butterface. I mean, hit every branch on

the way down the ugly tree. Not good

looking.

>> Oh, wow. Wow. I I don't know. I I think

I'm getting soft. I just It doesn't

bother. It's like, all right.

>> Wait. So, you see you say the Cadillac's

not your aesthetic. Like you clearly

don't think that's a good looking car.

But you don't mind that the M5 or the

any BMW 5 series just don't they're not

good.

>> They're just neutral to me. It's

neutral. The the BMWs are neutral.

>> Nothing. I feel I you know I don't feel

anything.

>> All of them. You don't even

me too. We're talking about the M5 and

the 5 series. I don't feel anything

specifically either way. I'm not

offended. It's I'm not bothered, but I

do. Do I love it? No, it's just like a

thing. It's a It's an okay, it's there.

>> That's also not great. That's no great

compliment to BMW. Why not take a car

that s such a legendary vehicle as the

M5 or the BMW 5 Series? Think about the

5 Series from

>> that you saw from the 80s or the '9s.

Like

>> those cars were gorgeous.

>> BMW was at the top of their game.

>> You drool over those cars. Um,

think about uh like the the 6 series

from back then, right?

>> Here's the thing. I think with

>> they're amazing.

>> With the Cadillac partly,

>> for some reason, when I see that car, it

has multiple layers of

association about who drives those.

>> Apparently, only like 141 people drive

those.

>> Yeah, not very many people. I wonder how

many women out of that group. I'm

guessing there are very few. Um, you

know, and the BMW is a lot more

ubiquitous, so it doesn't carry a strong

association with the people who drive

it.

>> Fair. Yeah. It just blends in. You don't

even see.

>> Yeah. Part of it is that it that when

you see that Cadillac, you there are

very few of them and it's typically

driven by an older dude. you know, it's

just a very specific type, whereas the

BMW could be a wider swath of

individuals.

>> That's for sure true about the BMW. I

think we have to get the data on the

Cadillac because and also there's so few

>> uh Black Wings out there that I don't

like you can you can make an assumption

about the buyer because of your

assumption about any Cadillac buyer.

>> Sure. But we don't really know about a

black and the BMW.

>> Uh,

it's going to be like

>> it's a very much a

sort of corporate dude/sockccom

car.

>> It could it's it's Yeah, but the the

aperture is far wider who could be

driving.

>> Yes, of course. Cuz they probably sell

>> many more

>> many many tens of thousands if not

hundred

>> thousand more. But um I just think like

their competition is the for the M5 at

least the RS6. That's a car that just

punches you in the face. When you see it

visually it's like wow

>> that is so cool. And that is not the

case when you look at the M5 even the

wagon, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Um

>> yeah.

>> And or I guess the Mercedes version is

more toned down muted. I guess in

general the nonM/ AMG SLRS versions of

this segment,

you're not supposed to think anything

when you see them, right?

>> They're kind of I mean, it's a it's a

midsize sedan.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, you can't What more can you do

with it really?

>> I wish they would bring that segment

back, though. Like I was thinking about

when I was driving this Blackwing into

work today, the Lamborghini. Um I was

thinking about this compared to the

amazing cars I've had the chance to

drive this year. And the Lamborghini

visually obviously is an amazing car,

but uh not very useful if you're not

just like one person or maybe two max.

>> Um but wouldn't it be cool if

Lamborghini made a four-door sedan with

some real

>> It's called the Urus. No, that's a SUV

that now we're back to soccer mode.

>> Are you trying to a mini a Lambo

minivan? What did What did we get told?

We do not want to do this.

>> True. That was [laughter]

>> going down. It was like a Lambo van or

something. I'm locked out of my Lambo

wagon. Lambo wagon. I'd have to look it

up.

>> It would be cool if Lamborghini made a

four-door that had

>> Well, they did. Ever heard of the

Espatada? Ever heard of the Espatada?

>> True. That was a very cool looking car.

By the way, if they brought that back,

>> I know that I know that Winkler wants to

do it. So, I I think about it that Winkl

that Winkkelman wants to do it. I know

that he wants to

>> How do you know this?

>> Years ago, many years ago, I talked to

him when he was running Bugatti. He was

like, "Man, I wish we we we could make a

four-door car.

>> Bring back the Espatada." I mean, I love

the when Ferrari has done their Luso

style. Um, not the luch, but you know.

>> Yes,

>> the Lusso, the the two plus two. Those

were very cool. I I think I still think

those are really underrated and very

very cool.

>> So maybe Lamborghini could do that.

>> I agree. Well, the last Ferrari that I

drove was the FF and that is the

predecessor to what is it called? The

GTC4 Luso.

>> There you go.

>> That's really what like the evolution of

the FF.

>> That was awesome. But even that didn't

have four doors. It just had four seats.

>> That's right. That's right.

>> And four-wheel drive.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, all right. Let's

>> let's let's talk with Kai.

>> Let's stop. Yes.

>> Coming up now, our conversation with Kai

Lurman from Summon in Speed.

Kai, I'm so excited and happy to have

you here. We, of course, I think we met

for the first time in Monterey pretty

recently, just a few weeks ago. Was that

the first time we've met?

No, you actually met when we um when you

came in at the the quail. I think it was

22 or three. 23 when we actually

celebrated the Porsche 930 Turbos

Magnus' first.

>> Of course.

>> Uh and we did the we did the poster,

remember?

>> Of course. Of course. Well,

>> that was kind of the first time we met.

I knew of you, but you know, you were

always in a higher league there.

>> That is That is [laughter] absolutely

not true.

>> It's true. She is in a higher league.

>> That's very kind. I was just telling

Matt, you won't believe it. You know,

you think that you're going to think

that Kai is a car guy, but actually also

he's a foodie. He I mean this is a this

is a Michelin chef we've got on which

we're not here to talk about food really

but I think it's really people should

know you are a man of many uh many

layers and many talents.

Well, yeah, I think it it helps with,

you know, when you know the food part,

which I look at chefs, you know, it's

kind of a they're artists in their own

way, in their own realm. And it it helps

to when when you look at the bigger

picture, when you do an event or when

you understand the car thing and that's

where everything comes in where you look

at the car, right? You look at it as an

art piece and and what has done with

him. A lot of these these days when you

look what people are doing with it, if

it's a if it's a modification on a car,

if it's a paint, if it's a design, I

think that's what intrigues and and gets

you going and then makes it starts a

conversation to a certain degree, right?

That you say like, "Wow, what is this?"

And then, you know, a lot of chefs like

cars. So,

>> is that true?

>> Of course.

>> Yeah. You go in, right? Like like I used

to. You had a rough Saturday night,

right? You go in the car and drive,

right?

>> Oh, I didn't know this. [music]

>> [music]

>> You know, I got to say that I uh I

studied in Tubingan and [music]

when I was there um one of my best

friends was uh

um Graph Fitzum who used to work at

Mercedes and he was always hanging

[clears throat] around the sort of Black

Forest foodie scene. And you studied

there as well, right? In uh Hotel Fakula

in the Black Forest somewhere, is that

right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was Yeah. I

did my apprenticeship in the uh in the

in the Black Forest and then we went to

the hotel to the hotel school in uh in

the there as well.

>> But I noticed that all these car guys at

Mercedes and Porsche, they were also

interested in um tennis. They both have

big uh marquee events in Stuttgart at

the Visonenhoff and um Porsche does one

uh for the women and they also all love

obviously good food and there's some

delicious I mean there's some amazing

chefs around the area. So these things

you know uh um food and sports and cars

and watches they they all kind of live

together in the same area.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you you mentioned

watches because it's another thing, you

know, what what comes in with the whole

with that whole era um of, you know,

what fits together kind of. But yeah,

you're right. And uh yeah, when you go,

we did once, you know, we were very

excited. We did I don't know we did the

European delivery when we lived in

Canada for a Mercedes and we went to

Stutgot and the mo I mean it was

exciting to get the car but when you

haven't been in Germany for a while the

best was like we could eat in the

restaurant there right and get a and get

some local food.

>> How did you make the jump though from So

you're uh a major chef um

>> in Chicago.

Yeah. In a major city um you know for

that known for its food and then now

you're working with Cross Harbor and

doing major car events which we're going

to talk about in Big Sky and Willow

Springs. Like how did you make the jump

from one industry to the other

>> in well in the indust indust in in the

hotel industry it's kind of it

progresses. It's not a common thing that

a chef goes from the back of the house

to the front but you see it more and

more. also in Chicago. I had the

opportunity to work from when I was

running the property as the executive

chef to go to the front of the house and

became the director of food and beverage

that oversee all the banquetss, catering

and restaurants and anything that has to

do with that.

When I did start it in 2009 and we had

the quail, the quail was actually

closing because, you know, the financial

crisis and so on. It was supposed to get

sold the property. Then they decided

other way they got but we had the golf

club open because of the the membership

and uh we did the car show because that

was kind of a revenue stream at that

time with the hotel being closed.

So Maria who is running still running

the hotel in this the regional VP for uh

the US for Peninsula she said like we

need somebody who go over there and help

them with with the with the cooking and

the food and beverage because they don't

know have enough people and they don't

know what I want to make sure it's going

well because we're going to renovate and

then reopen. So, I went over the first

time and helped the whole event cook.

And then I I had no idea at that point

what it was, tell you the honest truth,

right? Because I just came back from

Japan and it was like, "Okay, let's do

this." Um, and that's kind of when I

fell in love with it. I I got the whole

concept and I went every year and we

cooked at the beginning ourself. Then

when we reopened in 13, if I talk too

much, you need to stop me by the way.

>> No, this is great. We're we're listening

with wrapped attention

>> and and in 13 when we reopened that was

really then when we said okay we this we

want to make the event which is being

successful how can we make it more

successful and there was a lot of drive

>> from from uh the CEO at that time and he

was a visionary and obviously with sir

Michael who owned the the property and

tells me it's a huge caricado together

with his son Um,

>> Phil's got great cars, too.

>> Yes. No kidding.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. So it that's when this all started

and then there was a general manager

change in um later on in 15

and they said look we need somebody who

understands operation particularly food

and beverage and

um who also is you know likes likes the

automotive industry understands it what

we're doing over there and and so on and

that's when they came to me and said

like look you've been going there for so

long and we know you like it and you

know know already some people out of the

contacts you made. I have a very dear

friend that we first met when we came to

the US from Canada in 2000 who

who I bought my first car from in

Philadelphia and he introduced me to a

lot of people in the industry. And so

the whole thing kind of rode as a side

thing, you know, and as when you do a

main job, you want always something else

to do that takes you away from it. And

the car part was something that you know

I really enjoyed and talking to these

people and how they operate. And there

was a also a mutual kind of interest

from my friend who had the dealerships.

He always was intrigued with the

hospitality because he said like I don't

want to be a regular dealership would

just deliver us a car. If somebody comes

here we want to give a fivestar service.

You know we want to put the chocolate

strawberry on the dashboard when he

comes and arrives and picks up the car

instead of just saying thank you for

purchasing the car. We see you next

time. So the there was a lot of mutual

um thinking between the two of us that

at the end intrigued me more and so on.

So that's how that came and then when I

was over there I took over and that's

when we you know started to elevate more

and put more emphasis in the car show

and that's how I got that.

>> So let me let me just break in and ask

because Hannah's been going to Monterey

for many years. Um, I've never been able

to go thus far. Something always comes

up. But the quail of which you then

became managing director is like the the

event that all the enthusiasts want to

get into the most. There's kind of a

running gag on Doug Demiro's show about

um his buddy Kenneth who actually bought

a car to try and get invited to the

Quail. Um I think it was like a Mercedes

[laughter] SLR and then he didn't get

invited to the Quail. Um, what is so

special about the quail? What is what

should we know about the quail? Like how

do you explain it to somebody if you sit

down in an airplane next to someone

who's not a gear head? Like what is the

quail a motorsports gathering?

>> Well, it's I think what sets it apart

and I think more and more people

striving for that now is it wasn't your

regular concour or car show. Hence, we

don't call it a concore, right? It's a

it's a it's a motorsports gathering

which if you look at it with the cars

are not lined up to a certain degree

like you see at a regular concour you

know it's it's we put them on the field

more interesting kind of you throw a

bunch of Skittles on the field and see

where they land uh still with still with

a a system but more organically. I think

adding the food component was a huge was

always there but was more enhanced and

it it is it is a garden party at the end

of the day right it's it's we don't want

it we want it to be something for

everybody when they come and they have a

great time that they have enjoyable they

can be with car people you can look at

cars there's a concourse you see some

interesting things you can also then see

what crew and crew over the year with

with the uh with the OEMs that they show

want to showcase their newest car Right.

So, it was interesting for them and it

was a small event, right? While other

events are larger, we always kept it at

a smaller audience

um when I was there. And I think just

having that difference in what's going

on throughout the day. I think that

makes that makes made it interesting

when everything else was at that point

solely focused on this is the class,

this is how we win, you know, this is

how it get judged and so on, which is

great. We just wanted to be different,

right? And that was really, I think,

addressing something that a lot of

people in the car world have always

noticed, which for many years, the cars

are great, but there wasn't a lot of

hospitality setup around anything car

related. A and it always was kind of a

bummer to be honest. You know, it it it

for many years it was like you would go

to car shows or you would go to uh

races, that sort of thing, and they're

just wasn't you've got these very

expensive cars and these very high netw

worth individuals, but then the

hospitality is just non-existent. So, I

I think you really did create something

at the quail which elevated everything

else to catch up with the caliber of the

cars. Is that to to hear someone say

that to you? Is that an accurate

assessment?

>> Yeah.

>> No, we did. I mean, that was

>> that was the whole part to have because

like you mentioned, you have to sign it

with people there. They're buying

expensive cars, but of course,

>> you want to do it in an environment that

is comfortable for those people and and

showcases something they may not have

seen, you know, something that surprises

them throughout the day. have uh have

the lights and and tastes there that is

like oh wow see this and that's why

we're always we're thinking throughout

the year when people said like why do

you need all these people all year like

it takes a lot of work to put an event

together you know yeah

>> and I'm I'm I'm doing that now when we

have three events and soon to be four so

it's you know it takes a lot of it takes

a lot of people and and it's you know

the collaboration that you put in

because everybody has an idea and then

you dream high and then you see like

where can you end up that makes sense.

You try something out. Sometimes it

doesn't work, but at least you tried it.

>> But it was important to get that

lifestyle aspect in to get and and then

feel out where people come. The same

with merchandise, you know, we sold at

the beginning, I think we said hats and

t-shirts

>> and then it grew over the year, right?

And we

>> we saw like the interest for that part,

right? And then you know everything goes

two phases and you need to you know you

need to understand the industry you need

to understand the market where there are

globally can they do more this year or

less some brands don't have anything to

showcase because there's nothing

happening some brands are not there

anymore so there's always movement so

that you adapt to the industry I think

is very important so you don't have just

a stern vision and say like this is what

we do I mean some can do it because the

tradition traditional and and they do it

but even then I think you have to flex

these days to to ensure and and look at

them as um specifically with the

partners you work with that it's

beneficial for both and and

>> wait can we just can I just understand

so now you are running events for summit

and speed right and you talk about the

four events that you're running I know

about the Willow Springs um reimagining

and I know about the fat race obviously

the uh the big sky event and um you're

doing a goodwood event as well

>> and what what what is the uh what is the

fourth and tell us about summit and

speed because that's where you after the

quail you go to summit and speed

>> right so we

>> Sam came because he started

>> he started these events right and he

he's did the first event was the opening

event that we imagined last year at the

track and then we had u the ice race

this year in Big Sky.

>> Let me just break in for our listeners

and say Sam is Sam Burn who's the

co-founder of Cross Harbor Capital

Partners. Sam saw your talents at the

quail and invited you to join him on

this new

endeavor.

>> I think was combination a friend of mine

that I worked with in previous hotel

industry who was working for him. when

Sam was looking, he pointed out to me.

So, and that's how we met. I met Sam the

first time at Festival of Speed

and then uh we met um last year at the

Quail and that's when you know we

>> No, you were in Goodwood like you were

there as a

>> I was there for you know for Peninsula

and then he was around I said like well

let's meet right why were they both

there and talk initial conversation I

didn't know Sam so that was that's how

that started and I think we we hit it

off right away and and we he you know I

said like look I I mean it it is what it

is, you know. This is what I do, you

know. I'm not trying to hide and I

wasn't looking for for any move or

something. So that's how that that came

together. Then we then we got together

again the day before the quail and then

we had conversations and uh then here I

am. So

>> and the the exciting thing about

uh the exciting thing about Goodwood is

that while it's in England, a lot of us

don't get a chance to go over there. Um,

it would be cool if we had something

like that in America. So, is the idea

that you have like a festival of speed

um or a revival or something at Willow

Springs? Is that am I understanding that

correctly?

>> Yeah. So, I think there's there's two

components to it. So, first of the it's

the the Goodwood Road and Racing Club

America which we getting interests now

that will start in January 1st and

that's the sole that that's kind of

based with the Goodwood team out of the

UK. They will start announcing it. There

will be events around that that are not

announced because they're member events

for now. They will be smaller. They may

be introductory something like that.

that will be probably before already

happening.

But then the second component is that

we're going to do a event

for everybody, right? Not just for the

members. So it's not a members club

event only the event. It's it's a

different event what that event's going

to be. It's going to be the best of

probably all the things Goodwood does

with uh using our platform of the

racetrack and uh and the landscape which

they're having them out there more and

more and and working with them which is

absolutely lovely is they're very

intrigued by by the landscape and the

contrast that it provides towards what

they have in England when it's you know

when it's not raining it's really lush

It's beautiful. You have castles,

horses, and stuff and and and and the

track and the airplanes, but they see

this contract that's really intriguing

and what can be done out at Willow

Springs, which is which is uh which is

great that they're really visionaries

and and it's

very it's great to work with them. It's

very educational. It's inspiring. It's

also cool because especially for Hannah

and Magnus and everybody out in

California, like Willow Springs has been

a place they've grown up with and a

place that they feel I mean Hannah,

correct me if I'm wrong, but it's like a

a second home to a lot of the car

enthusiasts out there.

>> Yeah, it's historic. It's got a lot of

history.

>> And for us also because um we love

Singer, they do a lot of stuff out

there. Our friend Tom Wagner and and

Nighthead um are there a lot uh and they

work closely with Cross Harbor, which

owns Willow Springs now. So like it's

like everyone's getting together and

something this movement is happening,

right?

>> It's happening. Yeah. And we, you know,

we're we're working like right now. I

know the event is around the corner. We

still need to get educated people on

what's happening, you know, how it's

moving. Everybody wants to have it all

change tomorrow, but good things take a

while, right? And it will every every

time you go up there, something has

changed for improvement. So we we

continue to do that. Um and um and

moving forward with everything. But

yeah, it's when you talk with locals now

that I live down here in the LA area,

it's they're creative. Even when we met

with the authorities for the event next

months, they were like so happy that

something is happening because they

thought like nothing would happen to the

to the place anymore, right? It would

just become dust eventually. But when

they saw activity and something is going

on and that we include the neighborhood

and the communities, they were really

happy about that. So that was that was

great.

>> Let me ask you this. You mentioned the

Goodwood Road Racing Club membership.

What does membership get you? Um, you

know, maybe for somebody listening if

they're curious about this, what should

they expect if they want to become a

member of this sort of Goodwood America

chapter?

I think the probably the programming

will be similar than what they do for

the Goodwood uh uh road racing club over

in the UK. Um special events that will

be be held um on the track here, but

also not only here, they will have

different events throughout the

throughout the US. So it's it's right

now the center part is Willow Springs

around, but it will stretch out because

they wanted to be have a presence and

activity on the east coast. They want

something in the middle. They want to go

to some historic and and and and um

recognizable areas, tracks and so on

that they can invite their members and

and program around that. They will give

them probably access to to uh to the

Goodwood UK club to a certain degree. We

were looking at how we can integrate

with our membership in Willow Springs on

that. So there's multiple aspects that

will fall in place. you know how this

going to develop. It's it it's very

organic at this point and we have a lot

of meetings and calls

about how to to put this together. But

again, like I said, it's very it's

great. It's inspiring and uh you know,

we look we look really forward to to

that move. Is it going to be like So I

um wondered how much it costs to join

the Goodwood uh road racing club and I

know that in the UK they have I mean

it's pretty reasonable. It's it's only

like a few hundred pounds um to join.

The problem is they have a strict cap on

membership, right? So there's a

multi-year waiting list. You can't just

join today.

>> Yeah. And you get like I don't know what

I think I pay like what7 75 or 85 for uh

for the fellow fellow me fellowship or

something. Right.

>> Yes.

>> But I never been to any of the events.

[laughter]

>> But you get stuff you get like 10% off

events and I mean you get swag and um it

sounds like something that

>> any car person would want to join.

>> I think so. I think the, you know, the

the the feel around Goodwood and like

like you said, it not everybody can can

go and and just hop over there. I mean,

not the I mean, these days to fly around

is not that cheap anymore. So, if you

have real enthusiasts, it's it's hard to

get over, right? And then to find a

place and go there and travel. So I

think having it here and I think will

will really expand

for them but also get something new and

hopefully interesting going for what's

happening right now in in in our scene

here right not only in the LA area but

throughout the US that we say like look

there's something new and they bring a

new flavor in it um that can uh just

keep everything interesting because

there's such a hype right now around

automotive I wanted I wanted to ask you

about that, Kyle. And I'm also thinking

of Retromobile, of course, that's coming

to the US as well, another European

import. Um, you guys aren't associated

with that, but it's it's a similar thing

and you mentioned this scene and it does

feel from my side of things

>> having watched this whole culture for so

long that we are really at a

unprecedented levels of interest and

engagement with cars.

>> Are you seeing that on your end? And

what do people want these days when you

are talking to constituents?

Is this unprecedented on your side as

well? And what are people looking for?

It's I think it's a it's interesting as

and I think I mean you know the the

industry better than I do but I think as

a lot of these brands are

marketing towards lifestyle

um it's it's becoming more to have a car

is not only okay I I do it because I

want to be I'm a I'm a mechanical or

automotive enthusiast. it becomes part

of their life and something that certain

people can afford easier than others.

But that's why we have different types

of cars, right? But I think the

enthusiast level, even if it's from a

lower, you know, like we used to have in

Europe, you know, even if you had a

small Fiat Panda or Ford Escort, right?

You were you were proud of it, you build

it up, you got parts, and you made stuff

around it and you painted it, but and

and then you go up in the in the in in

the ladder. But it it is kind of

phenomenal right now to see that drive

and I think people look at it for some

who have not been exposed prior. I think

this is something new and gives them a

new entryway to something they haven't

explored. Most people can drive so it's

fairly easy.

>> Some of these have, you know, the means

of getting whatever they want to get on

a on on a car and it just gets them in

different uh areas. I think what's also

nice and it's not talked enough about is

and you probably I I want to know your

comment on it. When you're there and

I've seen this, I've seen it at the

quail. I've seen it at other events.

I've seen it in sorit. I see it at

whatever. Even in the local cars and

coffee, it doesn't matter who you are.

As soon you start talking about the car,

nobody cares if you're like if you're if

you're a cook that just came out of uh

out of the kitchen or if you're a

billionaire or if you're a CEO. Nobody

cares. Everybody is aligned because we

talk about the common thing and I think

that's another intriguing part in the

industry that it's very it's very

inclusive. It doesn't make changes. It

doesn't care as much.

>> There's something for everybody. You

know, I really think there's something

for everyone. If a particular make or

model isn't your cup of tea, you know,

walk five feet down the road and you're

you're going to see something else that

>> that you like. And if you one event

isn't for you, there's going to be there

will be five other events that might be

just perfect, you know. Totally agree.

>> But I think you're also you hit on

something that's really cool, Kai, which

is that um there's kind of an equalizer

at car shows. Nobody cares if you're if

Ku Reeves shows up, you know, with uh

Honda 750, CB750, you know, and you're

talking to him about the bike, you don't

care as much about whatever movie he's

made. you're not asking him about um

Point Break. You care about the bike and

why he got it, how he got it, and

>> um it it does kind of bring us all

together on the same plane. If if if

some movie star walks up and sees some

dude who's just a janitor, but also has

a sweet CB750, then he'll want to talk

to him about that and not about It's so

cool. And by the way, you also

mentioned, you know, uh, Sam Burn and

and Tom Wagner and those guys, I'm sure,

have 930s until uh, the cows come home

and they have singers and they have

these million-dollar cars. Um, but you

don't have to have that, right? You

mentioned getting you can just get an

escort and paint it orange and you've, I

think, done that.

>> Yes. [laughter] So, tell us tell us

about your you you mentioned you bought

a car, you know, and uh I I've heard

that you have a 1968

uh Ford Escort. What what what and

>> I used to have that was my first car in

Germany. My dad painted it because it

was rusty

>> and you're driving it in the in the

Schwartzvald. I mean, the best roads in

the world, right? So, tell us about the

cars that you like and what you've been

uh getting and what you love most.

Well, we had that. Yeah. Well, we had

the Ford Escort and then you did like,

you know, my my cousin was building a

speakers

homemade. I don't know why, but he put

the whole speaker things in the back,

right? And we got the radio and I that

that car obviously didn't come and I saw

it actually at the Porsche that they

have in the center console. They

remember uh had they had these little

cassette holders you poked in and you

could clip your cassette in.

>> Yes.

>> So, we had to build one out of plywood

in the middle console. So we work that

and no I sure I like I like Porsches. I

like a lot of cars. I think it's like

what what you know what aesthetically

like you said what do you what do you

like you know I think there's there's

things that are very intriguing

that you just go for uh I'm very open to

that [music] you know

[music]

what's your favorite car right now? Like

if you have a crappy day at work and you

go home and there's a nice road near

you, open the garage, what do you take

out?

>> Well, I only got the one Porsche, so I

take that.

>> That's all you need. You can only drive

one at a time.

>> All right. So, what? Tell us about it.

Like, what is it? What color? What have

you done to it?

>> Dish. Dish.

>> I actually didn't do anything to it.

It's It's a 993 C4S white body with a

kit.

>> And I just kept it. It was It's the last

one. It was a 98. I got it as now what

12 years ago or something. I got it

because of the color actually because it

has the original Aventurina green which

was not done which was done for I think

for the 964s but not for the 993. So

it's a paint to sample

>> and whoever I bought it from or did

originally the purchase for it. It has

so many I think it has all the extras in

which at that point wasn't really a

common thing to do that you have leather

covered air vents and B-pillars. So,

>> wow.

>> It has all that stuff in it and that's

what it just looked cool to me, right?

>> What color is the leather and what color

is the interior?

>> It's a beige beige and black leather.

>> That's a good That's a good spec.

>> So, I mean, somebody may say this very

traditional. I love the car. It sounds

great, you know, drives great. Just had

service done. So, that's what I take

out. I like it.

>> It's traditional for a reason.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And I said like when when I just

had all the big maintenance done, I said

you should get this new radio with the

whatever the Porsche radio with. I don't

I don't need that. I said I like my my

CD player in there. You know, you can

play the old I don't know Aerosmith or

something.

>> There you go.

>> That's your go. Wait, that's your go-to?

Your go-to is like Dream On. What?

[laughter]

>> I just messed up cuz I just I cleaned it

and I put out the CD the other day. I

was

>> I want you to be listening to the

Scorpions, dude. No judgment. He can

listen to Steven Tyler.

>> He's listening to Ramstein in there. You

know,

>> I do like Ramstein. Yes.

>> Or Hillig Schneider.

>> Yeah. [laughter]

>> I do love the idea.

>> I do love the idea of letting someone

else pay for all of the upgrades and

specs and then you get it. Hell yes.

>> You know, let the other guy pay for

everything else. Beat the depreciation.

>> Exactly. And then you get to actually

enjoy it at a at a decent So

>> decent value

>> and 12 years ago that's goodbye. I mean

that's before they went insane right

>> with prices.

>> Yeah. I I guess [laughter]

>> I'm telling you dude as someone who

looks every day they looked they looked

way they looked way more affordable 12

years ago than they do postco.

>> Yeah. Well it wasn't six figures I can

tell you that.

>> Well there you go.

>> Well I look forward to When's the next

event that we can go to that you're

running Kai?

Oh, the next event we have is actually

in a couple weeks. That's your fourth

event which we which I never got to got

to um is u the newest baby which is the

Big Sky Food and Wine Festival that's

happening um in uh September. So that's

the next one. That's what I'm going to

get up there. And then we have uh

re-imagined

in uh October 17th 16th we have people

come in do practice rounds for for the

groups that are running the next day and

then we got the we got uh the 17th is

the day of the event and we're very

excited. We got the um Porsche Cup cars

racing. We got the uh B sedans lined up,

vintage motorcycles. We also got the uh

we also got the uh um working with the

Peterson. We're going to do a time

attack uh from the start to the fifth

fifth turn which is going to be great.

Something new that we're doing. We have

uh drifting going on all day on the

balcony one of the tracks. Uh we have

dirtfish doing uh rally lessons and

drive alongs. The go-karting is going to

be live. So there's a lot of activity

throughout the day which we programming

more. Last year was an opening event.

This year it's more like on an event

basis where we programming get the folks

out there and yeah we're really excited

about it. So

>> can people buy tickets to that if they

go online and Google it?

>> Yeah.

>> Great.

>> You can buy tickets right now. We have

uh ads out. So yeah, it's open.

>> That's so cool. And this and this Big

Sky Wine and Food Festival, even though

it's not specific to cars, I think makes

so much sense. and really feeds into

what you guys are doing, what we spoke

about a little bit, which is creating

more of a car scene, car culture in

Montana, which

>> to me makes so much sense. And I am

obsessed with Montana anyway, so I love

it. I want more opportunities to get up

there.

>> It's interesting because we have such a

demand for for the automotive industry

right now up in Big Sky and Montana.

Even when I visit for for meetings up

there, may it be for fat or for the food

and wine,

there wasn't a there wasn't a time where

there was not a rally going through. If

it was the gold rush went through, then

something else went through, then we

have a group of guys or OEMs staying at

one of the hotels. It's Montana is

really kind of what is untouched right

now. A little bit still, I hope.

>> And you know, it's it's not much around

particular Big Sky. I mean, it's very

>> somewhat secluded. It's it's unique.

It's growing, but it's growing in a

manner that it's very

uh to the traditions and which is nice

to see. It's not just, you know, crowing

out. Um,

so

>> I love it. I went skiing there for the

first time about 20 years ago. I rented

my it was the first time I drove a Ford

Expedition, which at the time I was

living in

>> either London or Berlin, I can't

remember. And I was yearning for an

American for a giant oversized American

truck. And so when I got there, the

first thing I rented was a big

expedition with the V8 under the hood.

And we drove out from Bosezeman to Big

Sky. And I can't I was blown away by the

skiing. It was amazing having been

skiing in Europe for so long and

fighting people in the lift crowded lift

lines. All of a sudden I was like, "Wow,

there is no lift line here." It was

insane.

>> No, there's there's nothing, right? It's

it's crazy. It I haven't been there

skiing in the winter yet, but what I

heard is like there is no Yeah, there's

really no no lines.

>> Yeah, it's incredible.

>> Probably a little bit more these days,

but it's still, you know, there's not

it's not a huge area. Plus, the

infrastructure for hotels is very

limited.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, Sam's working on that.

>> Yeah,

>> he's working on it. Someone's got to do

it.

>> Well, we keep telling him we said we we

need more rooms. These people, hurry up.

Hurry up.

>> Not everybody has a house at the

Yellowstone Club. You know,

>> some of us need other lodging.

[laughter]

>> All right, dude. Well, it's been so

great uh of you to share your time with

us, and I can't wait to come to some of

your events. I'm really looking forward.

>> No, please, please do. And uh come to

the next one. Everybody's welcome. U

tickets on for sale and yeah, would love

to see you.

>> Right on.

>> Thank you, Kai. We really appreciate it.

That does it for this week's show.

Remember to follow and subscribe to Hot

Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere

else you listen. You can also send us

your comments. Email us at hot pursuit

[music] bloomberg.net.

And check out Hannah's columns and

stories on bloomberg.com and the

Bloomberg business app. Go there for car

reviews, events, and stories you won't

find anywhere else. Find it all at

bloomberg.com/pursuits/autos.

I'm Matt Miller. And I'm Hannah Elliot.

We'll be back in your podcast feed again

next [music] week.