[Music]

hi everybody I'm Nicola tangan the CEO

of the Norwegian SN wealth fund and

today I'm in really good company because

I'm here with Ruth porat the president

and chief investment officer of alphabet

which is the parent company of Google

now of course Google needs no

introduction but alphabet in addition

also makes self-driving cars AI chips it

owns YouTube and many more things and we

own 1.3% of the company totaling roughly

$30 billion so big welcome Ru it's great

to be with you thank you who is going to

win the AI race well we feel we're um in

a really strong position for a number of

reasons I think when you look at the

history of Google focused on

AI uh we started many many years ago and

at this point we have a very

differentiated approach which starts

with the extraordinary team we have led

by Demis aabas who obviously just won

the Nobel Prize that goes to the

strength of the mod models you look at

what we're doing on chips with our tpus

and then we're already really using it

across our various platforms so billions

of people are benefiting from AI so this

full stack approach we think is an

important element that being said what's

exciting to see is how much Innovation

there is broadly and so what we're

looking at is the opportunity I think

collectively globally to have an unlock

from the upside given the Innovation

that we're seeing not just at Google but

at other places so is it now a matter of

who's got the best people or the most

money or the best data or the best chips

what is it what is it about well the

reason I started with what we're really

proud of our full stack approach from

talent and models to the platforms and

chips is it really is taking this full

stack approach and I think very

importantly um this intense focus on

Innovation and continuing to push forth

you know one of the things that really

struck me when Demus was awarded the

Nobel Prize this last fall and he was

asked what was it that really started

him on this journey and he said what

motivates him is to take on the most

intractable what were thought to be the

most intractable problems facing

humanity and I think that ethos is

another really important element of how

one continues to drive forth and have

the biggest impact with AI do you think

generative AI can be monetized the same

way as search is I think generative AI

is continuing to enable us and others to

uh expand kind of the quality of what is

being delivered across a a various a

wide set of opportunities so just to

give you two examples you know I'm often

asked where do we where are we investing

ex you know extensively and probably not

surprisingly you know this well given

how close you are to all that we've been

doing but search remains so core to who

we are and we've evolved search

meaningfully over the years and we're

continuing to apply generative AI to

what is that experience that one has um

when you search and what we're finding

is that it opens the the types of

queries that are being explored it goes

for a deeper richer engagement so that's

one area the other area that's really

important is what we're seeing on the

Enterprise side and the abil to help

companies and the public sector

transform the businesses and their

approach whether it's engaging with

customers or on the efficiency side or

on risk analytics or with constituents

each of those provides opportunity for

monetization some of your competitors

say that you were a bit slow out of the

box when it cames to AI models but um

your latest Gemini is uh it's it's

phenomenal so so what happened here well

a search Google search for decades has

really stood for Extraordinary quality

it's what everybody around the globe

expects of us when you go to Google

quality answer uh very rapidly surfaced

for you in the most potent way and one

of the very important questions for us

slind talked about this in the early

days of generative AI internally we were

all talking about uh the risk of

hallucination and that term now is very

well known quite broadly and one of the

concerns is if you in the middle of the

night wake up your child is sick you

want to figure out how much TI andol to

give to a three-year-old there can be no

margin for error yeah that's what our

brand stands for and so it's very

important to us to make sure that as we

were evolving and applying generative AI

we did it in a way that was consistent

with the quality that's expected

appropriately from Google and I

appreciate your question because what

you've seen

is the really ongoing momentum in models

and introducing models more broadly

externally what we've done with for

example AI overviews where when you

search you'll get this kind of an AI

cockpit is the way I like to think about

it you're seeing more and things like a

model advancement that can be applied in

in other uh in other applications and so

we're excited about the momentum that

people have seen through 2024 and what

is ahead in 2025 talking a you told the

late you call the latest model for um

the model for the agentic area what what

does that mean or what what do you put

in that so that's one area that I I know

SAR and Demis and the team are really

excited about which is how can AI

actually be an agent working on our

behalf how can it help you do some of

the administrative tasks that are going

to make your life easier and actually

free you up to do something else book a

reservation for you um research

something for you how can it even be

applied for example in science to do

some of the basic inquiries so set it

out to do something to work on your

behalf so three three years from now

what does your day look like how is it

changing your life you know that's it's

a great question as it relates broadly

to AI I think one of the most um

important things for all of us is that

AI can really be an assist it can be

operating leverage for every one of us

you when I started my career on Wall

Street how was it as you were moving

from Bas you know big computers to

laptops to phone this becomes operating

leverage if appropriately applied and so

what one scientist once said to me that

they view this as augmented intelligence

not artificial intelligence and wish

that had been the word that was used

that's what it is for each one of us and

I think what's really important is to

understand that in fact it's not that we

will be replaced by AI in our roles but

we can be replaced by someone who's

using AI who's getting that operating

leverage if we're not and so it's so

important for people to just start

experimenting just start playing so that

you're on that Learning Journey now you

make your own AI chips the tpus why

could you explain just how they are

different from other chips and why why

you do this well we work very closely

with Nvidia they're a strong partner of

ours so we use both gpus and tpus and

many years ago the team started on this

journey of developing our our own chips

tpus to address some of the specific

requirements that we felt we needed and

what we found is that we continue to

have the type of performance that we're

looking for in particular in training um

and as we've Advanced the tpus what

we're seeing is we're continuing to

drive greater efficiency in all elements

of uh energy requirements with tpus so

they there's a cost benefit for us and

and impact benefit and so we're using

both in the fleet talking about various

versions of things so now we've had deep

seek um being launched which is uh an

open- Source model uh now just how do

you look at open versus closed

Source models now so open source has

been core to Google really for since

Inception if you think about something

like Android uh which is uh such an

important operating system globally it

reflects who we are when you think about

the trans former paper which has been so

critical for anybody who's thinking

about how do you build in this AI world

like what's the next step to the next

iteration so open source has been

important to us at the same time this is

a really powerful technology and so what

we're looking at is how does one

maximize upside but have the appropriate

guard rails and controls over certain

elements of it to ensure that you're

protecting how it's used used and where

it's used and getting that balance right

will continue to be very important for

all of us what are you personally most

excited about in terms of usage I mean

you you talked about um um medicine

Alpha fold and so on you you personally

what do you what do you feel more

strongly about oh I so when we look at

at AI I think there are four primary

areas that are really

exciting um first is the economic upside

you know it globally the estimates are

there can be 20 trillion added to GDP in

the next decade again if appropriately

executed if adopted across industry when

you think about the benefit to society

if in fact we have anything close to

that economic uplift I get excited about

it it's not to be taken for granted as I

said it requires what economists call

diffusion across industry adoption a

radical rethink of many elements of the

way the public sector and the private

sector Works excited about that very

excited about the breakthroughs in

science what Demis aavas and John jumper

awarded the Nobel this past fall you

know that was for something called Alpha

fold which you're familiar with which

has been described as the greatest

contribution to drug discovery that is

exciting then just even sitting here

today the Practical applications of AI

in health care in education are really

exciting um so I would put those at the

top of the list now talking about

something uh um slightly different you

uh before the holiday season sent shocks

waves through the world with your willow

Quantum chip so why why is that such a

leap forward so we've been working on

Quantum AI Quantum Computing for quite

some time uh well over I think a decade

at this point uh and what's really

exciting is the computational

capabilities with Quantum so the willow

chip is able to um to handle a

computation in less than 5 minutes

that previously on the best

supercomputers on the planet today would

take 10 septian years which even I had

to Google it's it's 24 zeros on the back

of it so what that means in terms of the

ability to see and analyze more whether

it's in biology or other areas is

exciting and profound and so we see this

as another path that we will continue to

execute against how do you view uh

Microsoft's version of it uh we're

really proud of our own we think that uh

that what you've seen time and time

again is the breakthroughs from that

team led by an extraordinary leader

Hartman Nevan um U published in all

sorts of different places and we just

continue to build success to success

with the willow chip being the most

recent when do you think this will be

commercial yeah that's a great question

not surprisingly I ask that question all

the time as well and have been for um

some time you know I think it's there's

still a number of years ahead it's

starting to to point to different

applications that we're excited about

but whether we're three years five years

you know hard to say uh but it's it's

getting closer since I started asking

that

question and when when you talk about

these kind of 24 zeros uh uh and so on

just what are the what are the

implications for what are the kind of

things we can do when we have that kind

of compute power well when you think

about it take something like the human

body and the complexity of the human

body or anything in nature that's you

know multi-dimensional um the ability to

actually crunch data more efficiently to

have better insights is one area that's

very exciting for for us to think about

and the possibilities that come from

that and other things where you are

where you are strong is a self uh

self-driving taxi company now I'm not

sure what the latest number is in terms

of rides per week where where are you

now it's uh 200,000 rides paid rides so

what will the city look like in 5 years

time or 10 years time when do you think

it would be properly rolled out well I

think if I just step back and talk a bit

about wayo because we are very excited

about it you know we started on that

Journey more than a decade ago as well

and the original thesis is that more

than a million people die on the road

every year in accidents and if AI can

help improve the safety of driving

because our wayo self- driver the AI

does not get tired it does not get

distracted it you know it stays focused

on the road you've got camera sensors

everywhere we can improve safety we can

help save lives and that was a really

exciting motivator for the team we've

been rolling it out it's been

extraordinary to see the takeup it's now

one of the top attractions in San

Francisco if anyone's out this way but

we're also in LA in Phoenix and Austin

and expanding and we're going to

continue to expand because you see both

the um the reaction to it when people

get in some people are anxious about it

at first and then within literally under

a minute they see they they just go

right into to whatever it is they wanted

to be doing there's a safety element

around it uh so we think it'll continue

to be rolled out uh we're doing a pilot

in Japan right now and there's an

opportunity we think to help save lives

and are excited about doing that so 10

years from now who is going to own a car

you know I think it's too early to call

um I you know a couple of reasons one

many people in particular in the states

other developed markets own more than

one car they're good reasons to own a

car uh and so we'll see human human

nature and human behavior changes over

time the other is that weo is primarily

now focused on what are these Robo taxis

as you described it but it's it's

reasonable to assume that this

capability this extraordinary technology

can also be an assist with um with cars

that are owned and so there are a lot of

execution paths which enable you me

others to decide how they actually want

to get around now you're also the chief

investment officer and you are uh in a

very fortunate position in that you are

sitting on roughly hundred billion

dollars and you have all these

interesting areas just how do you

allocate Capital between them so Capital

allocation like I think one of the core

elements in capital allocation is that

you need to ensure that you're

continuing to invest aggressively for

the long run um if you don't invest for

the long run you're sewing the seeds of

your own destruction and that's a lesson

I've seen throughout my career over and

over and so very important it's been

core to the ethos obviously of this

company since Inception the early days

there was a a a kind of a mantra which

is 70 in your core 20% adjacent 10%

moonshots and that's evolved over time

but this core sense of you've got to

continue to invest aggressively for the

long run remains core to who we are and

we're at such an exciting time in

history given the opportunity with AI

you know both on the consumer side on

the Enterprise side so we're certainly

making Investments there I end up

spending a lot of my time globally

because what is really key is every head

of state is saying the same type of

thing which is I want to be a part of

this digital transformation it is key

for all the reasons that we've already

talked about and so what we spend time

looking at is as we're continuing to

invest in our technical infrastructure

globally in other words data centers

subc cables how do we link up the world

the the the opportunity is how do we

engage more deeply how what work are we

doing on their behalf to help accelerate

their digital transformation how do we

engage on the public C side and so

there's a really global view to this now

you you have this moonshot Factory in

house what are the type of things you're

working on there so the moonshot factory

as it was lovingly named years ago um uh

is the core one of the core areas within

other bets it's called X and out of X

came for example whmo it was incubated

in X and then got um moved out to become

an independent uh company they've also

worked on for example Wing or incubated

Wing which is our drone business excited

about Wing they're doing work as an

example with Walmart and we're seeing uh

really exciting results there and see

the upside they're also incub they've

been incubating and you'll hear more

about a company called intrinsic which

is a robotics um operating system and so

they have a number of different things

that they've been working on I think one

of the very important ele elements there

is that when um they are approaching any

incubation their mindset is obviously

you can't incubate everything and have

it work well and so kill things fast in

order to move into the areas that are

the most promising that sounds really

fun I think it was Charlie Monger who

said that Google appeared like a very

rich

kindergarten well it's we've got

everything from kindergarten all the way

through to postgraduate

robotics now you mentioned um uh sub

cables the fact that you also do subsy

cables and so on does it make you more

resilient you think as a tech company I

think there are a lot of elements that

build resilience and one of the are one

of the important areas is continuing to

invest in subc cables but it's also the

what we call technical infrastructure

more broadly so it's data center

resilience data center redundancy so

that you can actually be positioned to

serve customers when and where needed

and in the event of something that

happens and things unfortunately always

seem to happen around the world you've

got the resilience needed to continue to

operate at a high level it's our cyber

security defenses one of the things I've

learned in my career is is much easier

to prevent than to fix a problem and so

building in this strength upfront is key

and it's technical infrastructure I can

I'm happy to talk more about cables

because really proud of the network we

have globally but it's the other

elements like a zero trust approach on

cyber security so that you're fortifying

defenses in a world that is continuing

to become ever more challenging and I

think that's one of the key additional

applications of AI that's important and

how do you look at these additional

challenges I mean we are seeing attacks

on subsy cables we are seeing of course

accelerating cyber attacks how do you

how do you assess the state of the world

uh it's better to remain paranoid which

we do and build in resilience as you

said and so when we're looking at our

subc cable network we uh do build in

resilience to have alternate approaches

we're building globally we've been

building now in the southern hemisphere

as well um when we build cables as an

example one of the things that has

multiple benefits is we will build what

I will call a trunk from say Africa to

Australia and then we will have it in

chunks with nodes along the way that

builds in a resilience for the cable

itself but it also provides something

else that we're really proud of it

provides the ability off of a node to

light up island nations along the way

oftentimes working with governments that

say we want to help light up a nation

which maybe Google otherwise wouldn't so

as an example one of the ones I'm really

proud of is when we lit up Fiji uh and I

was talking about this at the Asia

Pacific economic um conference and we

had the prime minister of Fiji happen to

be in the room I said we lit up Fiji and

his comment was it was a gift to

everyone in Fiji because what that does

is link them to all the opportunities

that come otherwise from being having

access and what's really important to

remember is a third of the globe still

is not online still is not connected so

this gives us that added ability to

provide something that as he described

is an economic opportunity for Fiji for

generations to come with all um these

tech companies chasing the opportunities

here do you think tech companies are now

accepting lower returns for their

Investments well I think that at this

point what we're all looking at is this

theoretical economic upside which

assuming it

materializes creates the opportunity for

attractive returns and I think there's a

self-calibrating element to the pace of

investment that comes from that thesis

now when I said you know 20 trillion

theoretical economic upside globally

it's four trillion in the us alone what

is it require to get that you know it's

not applying using chat Bots it's

actually radically rethinking every

element of your business it's how do you

interact with with customers to drive

more Revenue it's what are operating

efficiencies in the business it's what

are risk analytics thinking front to

back on your operating processes because

this gives you an opportunity to

approach them differently that's what

leads to that the economic upside which

then drives the returns and so I think

that uh it's we've each got to make sure

that we're we're calibrating as we go

regarding the upside and then the other

part to your question about returns that

we're very focused on and others are as

well is how do you increase the

efficiency of that denominator all the

capex that it's being invested and so

we're approaching that in a number of

ways Sundar talked about it the

meaningful improvements in model

efficiency the meaningful improvements

you've already asked about in tpus our

Trillium chip our most recent chip is

about 67% more efficient than the prior

one so we're continuing to drive

efficiency in the cap capex utilization

while also trying to help unlock um

really that monetization upside now

related to this is is the corpor culture

and how you structure Innovation is

there a particular way that you

structure Innovation at Google it's been

such a core part of who we are I think

the driver of everything that we do and

there are elements of it that are about

how we bring in bring in Talent and and

apply them to explore uh different

Avenues we have an extraordinary

research team as an example everything

that's being done in Google deepmind the

demises leading and then on top of that

we have efforts I think more to your

question for example in the early days

of Google there was something called

Google Labs small Scrappy teams and told

go find something and Sundar

reconstituted that a couple of years ago

and you've seen already a number of

really exciting things come out of a

small Scrappy f focused empowered team

so for example hopefully you and others

listening have used notebook LM it's one

of my favorite it's the opportunity to

take your own your content speeches

you're interested in anything you're

interested in ingested into notebook LM

it can give you some of the information

that you need but you can also listen to

it as an AI podcast that can make things

sort of more accessible maybe within an

Enterprise or I've talked to some people

in the public sector and their wow

moment was wow you mean I can take all

these things that we publish that people

probably don't read and make it easier

for them to ingest the information the

answer is yes it was the time Innovation

product innovation of the year last year

and that's an example of something that

came out of of lab so we're continuing

to add- on in a lot of different ways to

make sure we're inspiring people to

dream big and think big but if I walk

around at Google and let's say now you

took down all the Google signs I mean

you got a Google sign behind you right

you take away all the G's all the Google

signs just how would I how would I know

that I was in Google how do you do you

relate to each other in a different way

do you talk to each other in a different

way do you behave in a different way

compared to the other tech companies I

have so many different ways to answer

that when I when I first got here I saw

how different it was in the way we

worked and granted I was coming from a

financial institution not another tech

company but it's literally embedded in

the technology that we use so it just

starts right from square one with Google

Docs collaborative docs every every way

we're constantly interacting and it just

adds a velocity to the work that you do

U right across the street from me here

we have a wonderful building that we we

put up

recently uh that that is where our our

AI team gdm Google be mind team is

operating you just see people constantly

coming together in ways that are exactly

what the founders talked about at

Inception it's about serendipity and the

joy that comes from that but then it is

in the mindset that goes through our

people Ops and our workplace Services

teams to have s dipity in a lot of

places so that people do congregate and

exchange ideas but I think the core

point is it's the ethos from the people

come in there's a high bar that's set we

want to make the maximum difference to

humanity that's what we talk about a lot

it's you know I I'll give you one more

Demus story um when he was embarking on

Alpha fold and the concept of predicting

the protein structure for every protein

known to humanity previously it would

take a year or two just to do one he

wanted to do all 200 million it was one

of the grand challenges that had been

out there for a long time and some

scientists said how could this be

possible and his answer was why not and

that ethos that why not is a large part

of how I answer your question and you

hear it in meetings it's like why not

take it on so that to me is is the

explainer so um tell me about a time

recently when you learned something

about a project and you just thought wow

this is just like way cool or does it

happen all the time it does frankly

that's why I'm like where do I go you

know it's um you know when I saw

notebook LM I'm like wow this is really

amazing though the ability and starting

to think about what are all the

applications I remember calling the guy

who runs Google Labs is extraordinary

and I said if I'm if I'm running a

government can I ingest report from

across agencies and see where their

inconsistencies he's like why not yes

I'm going back to the why not Point uh

so that's really exciting uh you know a

little further back this was years ago

actually but we now have 20 billion

searches a month using your camera with

Google Lens if I want your shirt you

know I can take a photo of it and then I

can find where to buy it and priced and

everything else or I can I do with other

things like art who's that artist I

still get an ohow moment from that I

ride Whos all the time in San Francisco

and you know I always tell people when

I'm in the car watch the left turn

because the left turn that's like that's

really that's pretty cool and gives you

a sense of what the engineers have

accomplished so I think the awe of what

the team continues to do is there

constantly and then and then there are

the human moments like I am completely

in awe of what we're able to do with

Healthcare and you because you had you

had breast cancer right exactly had

breast cancer twice actually and

Google the amazing Engineers identified

um the opportunity to diagnose early

stage metastatic breast

cancer and what's extraordinary is in

the testing of it they found that

relative to the 80,000 sample set they

found 20% more cases more incidences of

cancer and no false positives and as we

all know the difference between survival

or not or a really difficult course of

treatment at stage four versus two is

really meaningful and so the ability I

still have a wow moment with that that

we with AI and with breakthroughs like

that can give people the opportunity for

the early diagnosis that's needed and

what's really important in discussing

this with my oncologist he said what it

does is it enables any doctor anywhere

across the us around the globe to be

operating at the highest level because

they have this this assist this

augmented intelligence to me that

becomes an extraordinary wow moment when

you think about what we can do and we're

doing it not just in breast cancer

there's early diagnosis in lung cancer

in something called diabetic retinopathy

which is Blindness from diabetes and in

that instance early detection leads to

early intervention that's manageable

around the globe many places you know

early detection isn't the Panacea it's

not an answer it's an assist but then

you need the rest of the treatment as

well so there are a lot of wow moments

that come um and I think it goes back to

the importance of each of us asking how

can we apply it well thanks for sharing

that now how has the culture de evolved

during the during your time at Google

you know when I got here I think the one

of the first questions I asked because I

I've always believed that culture is

more important than rules regulations

coming from a regulated Financial

Services environment it's such an

important explainer and so I that's

where I spent some of my early time

asking people so how do you define the

culture and I do think it comes back to

inquisitive people who are who believe

that with technology we can have a

positive impact on Humanity it's not a

Panacea but we're technology optimists

we always we often use that phrase and

you know it goes back to deus's comment

I want to take on the most intractable

problems in society that's very much the

ethos of the founders of what sundar's

been pushing and it's what I've seen

throughout and I think it's what is

inspiring um for a lot of what we've

done and I've seen

the application of it so when I got here

as a former Banker I was very excited to

look under the hood and see so what

really are the numbers the Mantra as you

may recall back in 2015 when I arrived

was the desktop is dead can Google

actually make the transition to mobile

and who knows about YouTube and it was

sort of we've been sort of sliding for a

bit and obviously history has

shown the application of Solutions on

mobile

has been it's been a pretty wonderful

decade and it's that intense focus on

Innovation and providing better ways for

advertisers for people around the globe

to use mobile get what they want access

how and where they it's this Innovation

cycle that we've continued to see and so

I got here 2015 the market cap was 400

billion it's now north of two trillion

and I think to that questioning back

then um and yet the whole series of

innovation that we've seen since then

and that is the evolution and it's been

this recurring let's keep pushing it and

there's another really important element

and I think it's two sides of the same

coin which is there's an incredible

humility here a sense every year that

this is the last great year and that

started the moment I got here and I

remember as I was listening to the

stories like well they're all these

headwinds they're always headwinds and

so that humility I think inspires people

to push higher on for themselves and

their team and try and figure out what

else can we do um and that's been an

ethos I think search for Innovation

coupled with humility how do you install

humility in an organization it starts

from the tone from the top I mean if you

look at Sundar as a leader he brings

this um integrity and Ethos about him

and that's the

expectation uh I think for the entire

team we are privileged to be at this

moment in history with the opportunity

set that we've talked about and we

better approach it

responsibly and boldly to have the right

to continue to execute in the way that

we are I think it's it's got to come

tone from the top do you think it makes

a difference that the founders are still

around well I think it's been you know

Sergey in particular um at the couple

years ago as the team was pushing forth

on on Gemini uh was very engaged and

back in

uh sitting with them and he made a

comment that this is the most exciting

time in computer science that we had

only just scratched the surface

previously and when you think Google's

done pretty well like when he first said

that to me I got chills because I think

about how much has been accomplished by

Google but that level of excitement and

the magic of what's to come you know has

to be infectious um for every one and so

it's been yeah it's been a joy I just

saw him um uh in an interview saying

that uh 60 hour work during the week is

perfect that's where you have your

optimal production and Innovation and

creativity so he's yes he's certainly

motivated and uh as I said he's vieing

this is the most exciting time in

computer science I think that when you

look at uh the that building over there

that I described with uh the Google

deepmind team team and the effort

everyone's focused in it people are

working because they're getting a real

charge out of what they're doing and you

don't need to tell you or me how many

hours to work you know there's a joy

that comes from it you know at at Google

we're still um of the view that the way

we get the best outcome is we want

people in three days or more a week and

teams can figure out what works best for

them to get maximum kind of Maximum

productivity progress who do you hire

really smart people

and uh it's a it remains a a rigorous

process the number of applicants remains

you know

daunting um I think that depending on

the area you know there's there's a mix

of um I you know what I would say what I

would look for is a mix of those people

who um come with what I will call

pattern recognition the experience that

gives you a sense that of predicting

what's going to come from here or very

specific domain expertise but then

evidence uh high performance and

creativity pushing themselves achieving

achieving remarkable things along the

way talking of which uh Ruth you've uh

achieved remarkable things uh and you

worked in Morgan Stanley before you

before you joined Google uh and you were

there during the financial crisis and uh

uh did a did an incredible job what did

you what did you learn from the

financial crisis because you were really

involved at the very top yeah I learned

a I learned a lot at the the time I was

running the financial institutions Group

which meant responsible for banks

insurance companies Asset Management I

was on the investment banking side and

one of the most privileged times in my

career is when secretary Hank pulson

Secretary of the Treasury gon said he

wanted a team to basically be Sanda down

um at US Treasury and initially we went

I went down in in July of' 08 to focus

on the housing crisis Fanny May Freddy

Mack and to try and understand

understand and diagnose what could be a

trigger for what we would call a run on

the bank run on on agencies so we went

through Fanny May Freddy Mack with him

and then I led the group that went um

through the AIG crisis as well and then

onward and there were a lot of really

important lessons that came out of it

and when I got to Google I was asked

about them which struck me as a bit odd

because Google had only seen sunny days

and I think really importantly the

lessons are good for good times and bad

and for said it is easier to to fortify

oneself ahead of an issue to prevent

than to deal with it in the moment the

first most the most important lesson

from the crisis is to identify your

greatest source of vulnerability ahead

of time and protect against it so for

financial institutions that would be

liquidity without liquidity nothing you

couldn't operate and in that moment in

that September October 2008 moment you

couldn't procure liquidity durable

liquidity if you tried and we did and

you couldn't um but six months prior you

could have and I think a really

important lesson for everyone is do that

question what is your greatest source of

vulnerability you can protect against it

early on but not in the moment the

second really came out of AIG as we now

all know the crisis in AIG really

started because of the derivative sub in

the UK not the op not the insurance

operation and the problem was there

wasn't visibility about the risk that

was being taken on by the derivative sub

and so the metaphor that I've used since

then is you would not drive a car with

mud on the windshield you cannot run a

business or a country with mud on the

windshield use data and analytics to

clear away that mud and then you can

actually go faster because you're taking

calculated risk you're taking swor risk

I think the other really important

lesson uh was that there are no good

choices in a crisis and so go for the

least worst and just keep moving because

standing still can actually just amplify

magnify and you're not going to end up

with a good solution in any event by

definition you're in a crisis say

actually the last one is make sure you

have a team with horizontal Vision

because you got to connect the dots

across a lot of different issues it's a

lot of wisdom here now how do you

protect the Google against future

vulnerability so I asked myself that I

then said okay I need to apply those

same rules here I think the greatest

source of

vulnerability for us and frankly really

across Industries is around Innovation

and long-term

investing and notably when you come to

campus um you will see that Larry and

Sergey put a dinosaur on our campus that

it's name Stan to remind us every day

that if we don't innovate we too can

become dinosaurs and I think it's really

important to

maintain um efforts like what sunar did

with Labs Google Labs other things that

are continual Catalyst to continue to

really SP spur small teams to think big

and and also from a capital allocation

perspective to make sure you're

investing for long-term long-term growth

talking a bit about the personal growth

you worked with what is called the

trillion dollar coach Bill

Campbell who has uh well worked with a

lot of in successful people but how did

you how did you end up working with him

and just what did you learn from him so

when I was at Morgan

Stanley I've always had this view in

life that I should ask what's my highest

and best use and keep learning and I

loved being CFO with James Gorman he was

an absolutely extraordinary CEO I joined

him as his CFO the day he began as C we

we we've had him on the podcast and I

fully agree extraordinary person EX so I

started his his CFO January 1st 2010 the

day he started as CEO but after about

five years I thought you know I feel

like I'm plateauing here and I'm

wondering what my next chapter is and as

you said Bill Campbell is um one of the

most extraordinary people that anyone

could meet trillion dollar coach because

he had coached Steve Jobs and Larry and

Sergey um and I sat down with him and

said I don't know what my next chapter

should be and I'd love to get your

thinking about it I was out at a

Stanford board meeting where I'd served

for years and so got together at his

house and we spent a couple hours

together and he started by saying so the

one thing you know is you won't leave

Morgan Stanley as CFO to be CFO anywhere

else and I'm like that's the only thing

I know but what's the next chapter and

at the end of the two hours he said I

have the perfect role for you CFO of

Google we both sort of laughed because I

had been so adamant the one thing I

wouldn't do was be CFO again I'm like if

it's Google of course I had run Tech

banking at Morgan Stanley involved with

the Google IPO loved Google for years

and um so that's how I ended up here and

then he was always an adviser who was

here on

campus and just the wise Voice

who um was blunt and clear and when

something didn't make sense you know he

was famous for saying kind of throwing

the flag on the field um and just truly

brought out the best in everyone made

told each of us make sure you always

have that human connection and then go

into the business item he tragically

passed away with cancer shortly after I

arrived uh but it was a he is a gift

that is a gift that keeps giving do you

Mentor people yes what's the key to good

mentorship well I think you know when

I when you asked that question I

immediately thought of one of the most

important discussions I had with someone

who ended up becoming with a mentor

sponsor uh a key person in my career and

it was back in

1996 and I was asked to uh lead

technology Equity Capital markets the

part within a bank that's between

Banking and sales and trading that

really launches IPOs and this was right

at the beginning of the whole internet

run of IPOs there were not very many

women on the trading floor and the guy

who ran institutional equities called me

into his office and he said I think

you're going to soar but if you stumble

I'm here I will back stop you I am your

senior air cover and what really struck

me is that we all need senior air cover

and we all need to be senior air cover

for someone and what he was saying is I

know you're going to run far and you're

going to run hard and but I'm here if

there's ever an issue if you need me for

something something and so for me on

people who work hard for me and I see

this is a star who needs to be sort of

unleash to run to to soar um I try and

give them the advice that I think has

served me best throughout my career and

it's about continuing to learn and have

that senior air cover and really apply

data and Analysis to everything you do

and I just keep coming back to those

rules in particular I think it's so

important we each have SE air cover and

our senior air cover did you have a need

air cover you know there was I was I've

reflected on did I actually run into

issues there were small ones there

wasn't a crisis moment where I needed to

go to him but the insurance policy of

knowing he was there and the message

that he said I know you'll soar but I'm

here to back stop you in case there's an

issue is actually a real Catalyst it's

empowering you mentioned um the need and

wish to continue to learn what are you

what are you most exciting about

learning now well there's there's a

there's so much when I talk about AI in

this moment and the conversations I'm

having globally about the economic

unlock the real question is what does it

mean to radically rethink your business

or radically rethink the way you run the

public sector you know I've had quite a

number at this point of public sector

leaders Finance minist who said I'm not

going to get more budget how do I get

more out of my budget and really trying

to get drill into what can we do that

makes a difference how can we be

specific so for example one of my

favorite in the state of Minnesota they

wanted to do a better job delivering

services to their constituents and they

came to us and said um we can you help

us in four of our critical we have four

critical languages in Minnesota we said

of course Google translate 250 languages

no problem there we're going to help you

rethink how you engage within six months

they came back and they said actually we

need another 26 languages now that

Minesota experience for me can be

repeated over and over around the globe

like how do you interact better with

customers constituents but there's more

to it about efficiency unlock so I I'm

just a I think we're at this very early

stage of something that's huge and

possible and excited to make sure that I

understand how does it actually work and

what are the implications how do you

relax

um I love what I do so that's source of

relaxation and then beyond that you know

there's the biggest Joy is family and

kids U taking hikes with my kids I've

got a book club with my kids comparing

notes on books had dinner with one of my

kids last night it's um everything that

we can do together travel explore new

places um and I work out last question

so we both went to Wharton and if you

were giving the commencement

speech which I'm actually doing in May

uh what would you be telling The

Graduate students you know I actually

did do that a number of years ago and

what would you tell them now I mean have

you changed your mind probably not

because I think the core principles for

me never stop learning my father was a

holocaust Refugee he had no high school

or college education he ended up up

enlisting in the British Army and he

fought in the two battles of aliman and

he taught himself engineering and

physics because he knew or he assumed

that if he survived he wanted to get to

a place that was safe and he needed a

skill that people would value and he

thought engineering and physics would be

that skill and as a child he always told

me that his fellow soldiers would tease

him and say you're going to be dead

before you can ever use this and he

would say I'd rather die an educated man

and then the lesson for me as a child my

siblings was education as a passport for

life and I firmly believe that and I

think that one of the most important

things is never stop learning so that's

why I said when I found myself plateau

in my career I would go to somebody I

respected and say what is my highest and

best use and I was open to change and

continuing to grow I think that's one

really important one the other is Anchor

everything everything in data at Wharton

you clearly get great analytical skills

a lot of other places as well you can

argue with me in my approach to

something but you can't argue with data

and I always say don't give me flat data

put it into a sensitivity analysis so

that we can debate your assumptions

about the state of the world growth

rates how much do I need to invest let

me engage you with the data and that

should be the basis for the argument and

then the other thing I believe I told

them and I believe it is today as I did

then is Embrace Life as it comes don't

defer to a later time something which

you can do now because as I saw with

cancer you don't know if you're gonna

have that later time unfortunately that

was 20 years ago and I'm fine but in the

moment I didn't know but I was grateful

my bucket list wasn't very long I had

done what I wanted been married to the

same guy for many many decades have

three amazing kids I Professional Care I

wanted don't put it off because life

doesn't actually stick to your predes

predefined schedule well Ru that's uh uh

really motivational and beautiful place

to to end this podcast big thanks for

being with us and thanks for sharing

sharing all your thoughts and

backgrounds thank you so much you it is

always wonderful being with you thank

you for having me thank you