for our next panel we are going to have

uh a quick introduction to each of the

three electric vertical takeoff and

Landing vehicle companies the evall

companies we'll see a video for uh

introducing Joby and then uh Adam from

Archer is going to introduce Archer and

then Brian from wi and then we're going

to have a conversation uh be back in a

minute

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

w

I founded archer in 2018 to change the

way the world

moves Urban congestion isn't sustainable

this leaves the average American stuck

in traffic for dozens of hours per

year to combat that challenge we built

[Music]

midnight all electric aircraft

purpose-built to fly back-to-back trips

over congested

[Music]

cities midnight takes off vertically

like a helicopter then his propellers

transition down to fly like an airplane

it's designed to be piloted and carry

four passengers and can travel at speeds

up to 150

mph since 2018 we've made an incredible

amount of progress to bringing the

midnight aircraft to

Market our nearly 10,000 person team has

designed built and tested the key

enabling Technologies to bring electric

Aviation to Market this has enabled us

to raise nearly $1.5 billion to

get however our goal is the same since

day one to get to commercial

[Music]

launch our high volume manufacturing

facility in Georgia will open up later

this year and we have incredible

partners that are helping us bring this

Vision to

[Music]

life stellantis the owner of Jeep Ram

and Maserati has invested nearly $300

million to

date United Airlines has ordered up to

$1.5 billion of midnight aircraft and

with Southwest our goal is to offer

passengers 3-hour multimodal Journeys

across

[Music]

Cali we have an industry-leading

contract with Air Force and we recently

delivered our first aircraft as part of

that

contract in La we recently announced

plans for flight networks connecting

Sofi Stadium USC LAX and Beyond we can't

wait to bring midnight to a city near

Europe

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

Peter teal reminded us yesterday that

flying cars are the peak of the hardware

Revolution that never quite happened but

as you just saw we're closer than ever

to making it a reality the aircraft that

the three of our companies design take

off vertically like helicopters they do

a complex maneuver to transition onto

the wing into wingborne flight and Fly

Like an aircraft when the founder of our

company Larry Page first joined this

Mission the technologies that enable

these aircraft to fly were just starting

to become possible the team that I lead

has built the enabling Technologies in

electrification and autonomy that's

making this possible you see the prior

five generations of aircraft that we've

designed here on the screen behind me

and that iterative design build approach

has enabled us to get to the point where

we are building now Generation 6 which

is the first candidate for an fa

certification of a passenger autonomous

aircraft this aircraft is designed to

take advantage of all of the prior

technologies that we developed through

those prior iterations and to operate

without a pilot on board on those

missions there's two technology trends

that we are all uh in that we are all

using to create these aircraft Motors

and the the same simplification that's

coming to your cars and batteries and

the same advances that are coming to

your cars and also to your cell phones

and second autonomy and autonomy has a

lot of parts to it so we have to for the

first time in a commercially certifiable

way show how we can operate and

supervise an aircraft from the ground

display information in in a way that is

safe from a human factor standpoint to

supervise that aircraft to use sensors

on the airplane in the same way you

would for an autonomous ground vehicle

to create the software and the

computation to be able to then fly that

aircraft autonomously but when you make

robots people don't go away they change

what they're doing and so we use those

aircraft to actually do deployment

testing in networks here in Los Angeles

yeah last year we flew the first

electric Vall aircraft in the Los

Angeles area and we showed what's

possible with these aircraft and how

people can engage with them we are also

working on the human interface with air

traffic control because again even

though we have an autonomous aircraft

our aircraft still has to interface with

today's air traffic control system like

what you saw yesterday from weo we use

existing flying cars AKA helicopters

that are piloted to take that sensor

package and those computation uh

abilities and put them onto of a a

piloted helicopter to perfect the

algorithms that we use for doing things

like Det protecting and avoiding other

traffic in environments uh where there's

different lighting and where the

aircraft that you might collide with

potentially that you want to avoid is

above or below the Horizon we also have

to be able to fly these aircraft without

the presence of GPS as we see in

conflicts around the world today we

cannot rely on GPS to be able to fly an

autonomous aircraft so now once you have

that technology stack you need to turn

it into an actual airplane and all the

things that Peter talked about about

potentially being a bad industry to to

go into uh in the 9s are now becoming

ever more important the ability to uh do

aerodynamics to do mechanical

engineering to create these aircraft are

now more important than ever and uh by

the end of this year we'll be flying

this aircraft which will be the first

attempt at certifying a passenger

carrying autonomous aircraft so let's

bring the guys out and we'll talk about

it all right

well I think that there's a lot of

people that probably need an

introduction to Vall in a more basic way

before we talk about the technology

whether it's the actual vehicle itself

or whether it's the um the world's best

pilot if you will MH

um for the folks out here if they are

going to interact with these systems

whether autonomous or not what do you

think are going to be the biggest issues

that they are going to care about and

will want resolved before they see it in

their Community maybe Joe B if you want

to start yeah I think the number one

issue and you know for everybody when

you're getting in an aircraft is is this

going to be safe but then for both the

the passengers what they care about is

is something that's going to

dramatically change the way they they

move around their cities and save them

time and in order to do that you need to

have takeoff and landing locations that

are located both close to where you are

and close to where you want to go and so

priority uh 2 through n in people's

priority stack is about noise and making

an acoustic signature that's going to uh

get communities to see this as uh a a

real advantage and uh something that's

uh increases the value of uh of living

in that Community because you're you're

close to this new mode of

transportation um do you guys think that

when you see a thousand of these things

flying around let's let's just take a

place uh in Meno Park

California

um are they going to be forced to have

very specific sort of like air highways

that they have to adhere to or what is

the best thinking right now in terms of

how the regulatory bodies are going to

sort of enable you guys to actually fly

commercially as quickly as possible he

brand turn you if we if we just take a

step back the product exists they're

called helicopters and a helicopter is

actually way more complex than what

we're building we're actually building a

much more simplified version of what

exists it's safer it's fully redundant

and so it should Inspire confidence for

people to to want to come and take these

vehicles the way they'll start though is

going to be really slow if you think

about every major city in the world they

have hospitals those hospitals have

helicopters this product exists

everywhere so if you took all three of

us you took our most bullish estimates

that we have and you tripled them we

still would not even replace helicopters

so to get to the point where you're

asking thousands of vehicles in the air

over one city or even hundreds is pretty

far away we could all deploy tens of

thousands of vehicles we could the three

of us be a trillion dollar companies and

there still would not be thousand

hopefully there still would not be you

know thousands of vehicles in the air

but to make the product really really

great you do want liquidity you do want

a lot of vehicles in on dense routes so

you don't have to worry about is it

available is it not available like an

Uber right you just it's thumbs up it's

available or thumbs down it's not

available it doesn't matter what seat

you get it saves your time that's where

we're all trying to get but I think just

to frame it sorry Adam is it is it a

thing where it is like uber where

there's going to be a version where you

get in with people you don't know or you

think this is just like one person

Provisions it for themselves and then

they go from point A to point B no

absolutely the vision is uh you know a

service that's available for everyone

the good news is you can scale these

vehicles because they're just much more

simple than helicopters we don't have

all the limiting factors that

helicopters have so you can put a lot

more from the air you can push the

prices way down and make it very

affordable Bri it's also a dramatically

faster trip so you're you're in it for a

few minutes to get across La instead of

in in Uber where you might be sitting in

traffic for an hour or two right um

yesterday we heard from Teedra from the

CEO of weo their first launch city was

Phoenix the layout was good but mostly

it was really regulatorily um amenable

amenable um Brian what is the version of

Phoenix for Evol is there a city

somewhere that has said we want this now

come and help us figure this out yeah

Houston Houston is is where we're

working most specifically um and it's

not just because Woody lives there

either um but but seriously Houston is

um you know the the Airport network in

Houston is actually quite good

connecting couple of the airports around

uh the Houston area it turns out that

operating at airports initially is

actually quite a good place to start

because like I said you know these

aircraft they come with a footprint you

know they really come with like people

and operations and if you've ever seen

an airport tarmac area um it's you can't

just drop that in the middle of a city

on day one so starting at airports as an

initial operating area is quite good um

it turns out you know what you saw in

that video was from an airspace

integration standpoint and where we were

going on routes and so on um New Zealand

is has been incredibly Forward Thinking

in terms of how to evolve their airspace

Network so they have more um digital

Communications more of an ability to

integrate un crude aircraft with crude

aircraft in the same airspace and so

we've been doing quite a lot of work in

New Zealand on that front but hold on I

I mean I think it's to me super clear

this does not start in the US I really

think it starts internationally I think

the regulatory environment here both

both of us work in the UAE pretty

extensively I mean if I'm going to guess

just on the press that you put out Joe B

met the head of the um civil aviation

Authority in the UAE yesterday I'm

leaving tonight on a plane to go meet

him as well and so you know we are

targeting Abu Dhabi they've been

targeting Dubai and the reason is there

is a you know a very heavy support for

new innovation and the challenge like

the reason why I feel like all three of

us are up on stage here is probably

because of the the whole Woody video

that we just watched we all learned

about NASA as young kids and were

inspired by new things but the challenge

is the existing environment today makes

that very hard and these are companies

that were started in America with

American Engineers that have raised

capital from the American Venture

community that are listed on the

American stock exchanges yet we still

can't launch in America and that is

really challenging and I think part of

it is back to what Bill Gurley talked

about last year a regulatory capture the

walls are huge to climb and in fact the

more things go bad with the incumbents

the harder it is for us I don't think

that's done on purpose but that's very

challenging for us now I I I would I

would say that the amount of bipartisan

support on on both sides of the aisle in

Washington is off the charts the amount

of local support uh support with States

uh it the you know yesterday I was in

Montreal at the uh International civil

aviation uh Association conference uh

where they ConEd this is the first time

and they were convening 1800 people uh

to focus on uh Advanced Air mobility and

so this is really exciting to see how

much momentum there is and it's

imperative that the US continue to lead

Aviation is one of our most important

exports uh it's been vital to our

economy and it is really really

important that uh we we lean forward and

we make the the certification process

and just to double click on this for a

second I can see how Joe Ben and Adam

you guys Pure Play startups you know you

have to find the

Willing

parent um but you have the benefit of

Boeing mhm um and is that why your

answer was Houston is because they have

that I guess regulatory gravitas to be

able to go and help there or no you're

still mostly on your own trying to

figure no no yeah so we so the yeah the

Journey of our company was obviously you

know started by Larry started by Larry

became Kittyhawk turned into a joint

Venture and and uh and and eventually um

we sold the company to Boeing uh last

year and uh so we still operate as an

independent company a lot like the whmo

um Google relationship right now uh for

us the difference is we're really trying

to Pioneer the pathway to the

introduction of autonomous aircraft at

the same time and that's a longer

Journey so Joe Ben and Adam are are

going to be operating before us there's

no doubt because piloted aircraft are

coming before these uncrewed aircraft

um I think autonomy is key to the future

of aviation in the small airplane space

if you look at the the um the the the

causes of of incidents and the accident

rates in helicopters right now they're

just unacceptable and um and I think

that that can be solved by automation

I'm really passionate about that so for

us we're on a longer journey and the

question is then uh on that Journey um

how do we make sure that the US leads in

that and we're trying to Pioneer the

regulatory Pathway to ensure that it

happens here in the United States but

we're also working around the globe like

I mentioned in New Zealand where there

are Regulators who potentially want to

lean forward and innovate on airospace

or some other aspects of the problem

that we're trying to solve I mean Adam

Adam mentioned the concept of regulatory

capture but one of our besties Sky

Dayton who's on joby's board wrote this

great essay and one of the things that's

clear is that a lot of the pushback to

the vision that you have Brian actually

comes from the pilots unions themselves

right I I think it's a bit of a weird

set of incentives no do you want to just

talk about that for a second I think

it's less salacious than that and more

uh clinical I mean the the and I'll give

an example well so I have my vision for

the future is that we're going to have a

prolific amount of uncrewed small

aircraft that are operating doing that

kind of missions that we're just talking

about but that large C pilot large

aircraft are going to be piloted for

probably as far as the eye can see I

think the Practical aspect of it

honestly is that in 2023 here's a

statistic for you that just blows my

mind as a developer of airplanes in 2023

there were 30 million Global flights

carried billions of Passenger implements

number of people that got on board the

airplane um scheduled service you know

Airlines zero accidents zero what zero

in 2023 zero so so it's it's less

salacious than than uh there's a cabal

that's trying not to certificate things

there is a natural conservatism in the

system of holy

we've done it it's working don't change

it so when new technology shows up it I

I understand the perspective of a

regulator that's sitting on the other

side of that wall and it's saying man

this is kind of working um okay then

just to put you on the spot I mean I can

see you know when Joe Ben and Adam say

hey point A to point B instead of hours

in traffic you're there in 10 minutes if

there are really no pilot errors unlike

in cars where there's still far too many

unnecessary deaths

how do you measure the

incremental justification for the

investment let alone the reason to the

statistic that I just gave you is for

large aircraft scheduled air carriers if

you then look at the small airplane

Market or you look at helicopter markets

it is it is orders of magnitude it's

well it's Infinity more you know so but

it's it's it's way worse and so the

question is how do you bring the level

of safety of those large aircraft how do

you bring that same level of safety down

into the get rid of recreational pilot

you have to start you just have to start

I mean there is definitely this panel

exists in China guess what there's two

groups that are already certified there

they started that's how you do it you

have to get moving you have to set an

environment where we can all start

flying stuff when we can do it A to B

and when you're using a large aircraft

you're dividing the two pilots expense

amongst 300 seats or 100 seats and in

this case you would have a pilot on a

Joby flight with which really the

Pilot's not doing anything there's

they're not flying it so it's they're

there to make the passengers feel safer

is my understanding

yeah the pilot you know there there are

even with with what Brian's doing uh

with the incredible pioneering work on

um on autonomy you you still have

somebody on the ground who's uh making

sure that the weather is going to be

safe and uh lots of other operational

Logistics the benefit is you get to take

that person out of the aircraft and put

them on the ground so you get to put

another passenger in the aircraft um you

get a lot of operational flexibility uh

because you're the the you don't

necessarily have to have the pilot and

the plane at the same location at the

same time uh a pilot can over time begin

to operate multiple do the pilot do in

ajobi because my understanding is it's

automated so they're sitting there just

monitoring it they're making sure that

all of the operations are going to go

safely the pilot AR flying there's a

there's sticks right I

mean there is the option for the the the

pilot to fly fly with the sticks as well

so in an emergency situation they would

take over but it's autopilot essentially

there are a lot of a lot of computer

systems that are helping the pilot fly

and when one rotor goes down I mean one

of the great things about this is when

you have a

helicopter you know a rotor breaks you

die essentially we have layer on layer

of redundancy we have six six propellers

and each one's driven by separate motors

with each separate inverter with each a

separate battery pack and so it's just

you know the same thing with the flight

computers in the uh everything's

massively redundant what would it take

and that's what we did in big commercial

airlines which is why uh you get the

incredible safety that that Brian was

talking about yeah I mean we haven't had

a passenger death in the United States I

think the last one was 2009 and the last

three passenger jets that went down the

United States were all regional Jets

which we all know that there's a

collection of problems there um so what

would it take theoretically when you're

doing your you know edge cases what are

the edge cases that are the most

challenging in terms of

safety well so uh you know with our

initial certification we are not

certifying for flight in known icing for

example so if you if you live in the

North Northeast uh you know there will

be uh a few percent of the time where we

won't be able to offer service you'll

just ground them during ice conditions

you're not going to JFK when it's

snowing well when it's snowing you may

be able to go but if it's there's

certain conditions where where you get

heav icing in terms of concerns and

things that could make these go down

exactly so is there anything else though

that could you know what's like the

what's like the the wind speed or

gusting kind of condition Max and so on

uh so we're actually very tolerant to

that it was actually it was interesting

proba better than a wing than a winged

aircraft I would imagine right right

yeah and and so there's these these

folks at Nasa who are working on

Wildfire prevention yeah and they came

they've they came and did a not the

welfare prevention folks but NASA came

and did did an acoustic survey where

they put out uh a whole array of

microphones and we flew the aircraft in

Hover and transition uh overlight Etc

and measured the acoustic signature and

um showed that it was really low and

could fit in the environment in terms of

uh but yesterday I was having a

conversation with them on Wildfire

prevention they're like these kinds of

aircraft are going to be game changers

for for Wildfire because with

helicopters they can't handle really

turbulent conditions when you've got

lots of convection from the wildfire and

and you have six Motors we have six

rotors and so there's this thing called

Vortex ring state that uh affects

vertical takeoff and Landing aircraft

and you aren't going to have all six

rotors go into Vortex ring State at the

same time and you can also one of the

cool things they found out with the

Osprey is if you just tilt the rotors

forward that you can get very very

quickly get out of Vortex ring state so

basically these new new classes of

aircraft and what you can do with

electric propulsion and I I don't think

we've talked about that enough is is

what a GameChanger electric propulsion

is can you talk about the the acoustic

issue so give us some context for the

decibel tolerance where what and what

was you know in a city and give us a

comparison to stuff that exists today a

big truck diesel truck helicopter like

and what do we need to be at for this to

be ubiquitously accepted in cities and

then what's the technology needed to get

the acoustic breakthroughs needed yeah

so the background noise level in in

cities is around 65 DB and so we set

that as our threshold for this is the

level that we want uh want things you

know want aircraft to be below during

takeoff and Landing you want you don't

want to be Beyond background right we

want to be below 45 DB in overflight um

and and we've achieved both of those

goals uh you know you asked about other

things you know I think a garbage truck

is uh 80 or 90 DB every they're the

worst exactly the worst like every 10 DB

is an order of magnitude more noise

energy so it's uh you know a jet engine

is like 110 DB helicopters are between

80 and 100 DB uh the other thing about

helicopters that people find really

annoying is it's this low frequency

and that low frequency sound travels

long distance through the atmosphere and

so what's the tech needed like it shakes

buildings and really what was yeah

what's the tech needed to bring the

acoustic like how hard is well I mean we

you know when I when I started joy in

2009 uh so it's 15 uh 15 years ago uh

this week so it's like I've been working

on this a long time I've been dreaming

about it since I was a kid

um and it's it's incredible to see the

industry that we've built and uh and

again yesterday to see like thousands of

people gather just to focus on all of

the issues of bringing this to their

cities around the world so that that's

really exciting um

and the the you know the roll out and

and the impact that this is going to

have on cities is just really really

exciting so let me ask you guys you're

eff just you're spinning the propellers

slower that's what you're doing that's

the electric engine do that just create

lower noise that that gets you like 90%

of the benefit and then from there you

work to all the little efficiencies to

get that stuff out so let me ask you

guys about like the the convenience of

owning a car and like America kind of

popularized this idea that everyone

should own a car and then we all got a

car the benefit of a car is it's point

to point I can go from any point a to

any point B um how do you guys think

about the challenge of it's such a pain

in the ass to go to a port just like

it's a pain in the ass to go to a bus

station take a bus or you know Subway go

to a spot in New York it works where

things are dense enough but like in most

cities in the United States this is like

it is preferable to take a car because I

can do point A to point B and my

convenience which my time is always

faster taking a car how how do you kind

of think about the calculus of the

benefit here when I have to go to a port

to be able to take the vehicle to the to

the next Port I I think you know your

spot on I think of where we are today is

very similar to where uh the automotive

industry was was in the 1890s where it

was before we had the ability to mass

produce cars we we were building tens

and then hundreds of cars and uh that

didn't give the scale and so what we

were using cars for was taxis we are in

a similar mode today where we are going

to use these aircraft as taxis uh we

still need to save people time and so

there's only going to be select routes

where this is a game changer because of

the multimodal nature uh where you need

to uh and you may not have a takeoff and

Landing location exactly where you want

to leave from and go to but over time if

we can get the acoustic signature down

if we can make these aircraft even

quieter than they are today rather than

needing to go to a a dedicated ver port

to do this the dream is to eventually be

able to land them at your house Adam

let's talk about um propulsion for a

second energy density cost those

trade-offs speed these are all variables

that kind of just work opposing each

other um what were some design decisions

you guys made and um did you have to

remake some of those did you change your

mind at some point and just walk us

through that process the biggest

challenge I think of building these

aircraft is just the time it takes to do

it it is very expensive and it does not

fit any typical model meaning the

Venture guys don't like it and so

they're like sorry you want a billion

dollars UPF front to build this like

that's terrible you rejected me you

rejected me I don't think I met with you

uh like everybody rejected probably all

of us up here so it's not a typical you

know what I mean like Mom that's the

reality so there was this crazy period

of time in 2021 with the capital markets

opened up it was a dream scenario raise

a lot of money from the public markets

that was nuts so that allowed this to

happen and then from there it for for me

what we did was we said okay what is the

business case meaning we thought when we

looked at like what are these we call

them hero routes where there's a lot of

people doing these trips like Manhattan

to JFK it's like 30 million people go

from Manhattan to one of the three big

airports in New York okay so all we have

to do no brainer that's a no-brainer

yeah all we have to do is have a couple

around the city which already exist

there's downtown Wall Street Hort wests

side and just put them into the three

airports and that'll be an amazing thing

to start with okay so short routes 20 to

50 mile routes now let's design an

aircraft around that the fastest thing

we can do to get to Market so we don't

die before the investors decide nah

we're kind of like done with this one

now on to the next thing oh AI here

let's everybody go all in on AI and so

I'm just moving as fast as we can so

that was the biggest trade-off so it was

always what is the minimum thing we need

to do to get that done so you need to

look at speed range and payload payload

is definitely the hardest because

batteries are heavy and there's just

physics you're always fighting and then

speed the difference between these

planes want to fly around 120 mph you go

faster it's just more drag it just kills

your battery faster so you don't the

difference between 120 150 on a 10 Mile

flight doesn't really matter it's more

of how do you go at least that 20 to 50

mile route and go at least you know call

it 120 m per hour and do that as fast as

possible what kind of batteries what

kind of batteries did you guys choose

what lium ion cells commercial offthe

shelf stuff uh Molly cell makes you can

find the cells today there's millions of

them that are made and power tools and

supercars and pretty conventional what's

the range with the range of the aircraft

we're designing to go up to 100 miles

but the the real design is around back

to Rapid backtack 20 to 50 MP what do

you guys all need in terms of Battery

Technology improvement from where we sit

today or do you not and what's on the

horizon in terms of Battery Technology

improvements what does that unlock in

terms of range yeah so the batteries

that we're certifying our aircraft with

or have a specific energy of about 300

wat hours per kilogram to put that in

context when I started the company in in

2009 we had cells that had sufficient

specific power uh to do a vertical

takeoff but also so uh we're at about

170 W hours of kilogram so we've almost

doubled the specific energy in the cells

over the last 15 years um that we have

cells in our lab and then there's a

third dimension which really matters is

This Is The Life and uh so we have the

the cells we're uh taking the

certification are give us a uh 10,25 M

flights so our our kind of sweet spot is

is also in that uh in those shorter

range flights and we want to be able to

do a lot of flights between uh between

Replacements both for the environmental

impact of it but also from the economics

of replacing those battery packs and

when the the plane takes off that's a

lot of um energy usage the the wings

tilt forward and now you're flying more

like these ospre is as a plane the

energy goes way down the consumption and

then on Landing you got to be very

careful and use a lot more energy is

that correct yeah and there's there's uh

different trade-offs you can make

basically the more propulsors you have

uh the smaller each propulsor is and the

and the heavier you're disc loading and

the higher the amount of power you're

using in Hover the the harder you're

pulling on the batteries um the uh but

then more propulsors also gives you more

redundancy so there's this uh there's a

trade there breast tax when do you each

think we're going to pick um a quarter

in a year so you know fourth quarter

2025 second quarter 2026 you all have to

answer it uh you agreed backstage um and

Americans will be able to give money to

get in one of these not a test flight

you know in a major city in America um

to to when we all be able to use it uh

not just yours yeah these guys should

answer for themselves but I think

they'll get it done in uh in 2026 and

you should yell at it's different ah man

I don't um first quarter first quarter

26 I want to give him some heat we'll be

we'll be a couple years after that but

that's an incredible thing I mean

we're less you know a year plus away

that's yeah that's crazy now you should

um tell tell me how you feel about my

expectations

yeah I I think pretty clearly there's a

route to do this internationally next

year and so I think we'll launch with

passengers next year um he said in the

US I know I'll start there I'll start

there in in in 2025 job is to make sure

we have a safe I think probably fourth

quarter I think we have a my job is to

create a safe aircraft if Pete Budaj

called and said hey there's a way to do

this in the US I'm going to help cut

through all the red tape and we're going

to help you get it done like my phone's

on I'm ready call me I we'll find a way

to do it Pete why didn't we invite Pete

he seems Dynamic so he was actually yeah

we uh we nearly had him yeah very close

so I I think we're on a on a Time

timeline which we publicly announced to

uh to begin commercial Service uh in the

UAE next year um you think Q4 2025 as

well I I think that's it's likely back

end I think it's at the back end of next

year let me let

me we will begin non uh you know begin

operations before that but uh we will

not being to buy a buy a ticket have you

figured out the flight profile that

you're going to start with like it's

airport to X or something like that or

we have we have uh four ver ports that

are um uh that we're planning to build

in in Dubai and uh the RTA which is I

would like one from the airport to the

wind which opens in 2027 yeah from Dubai

to the new win it's a little far cuz

it's in rock so it's a little far away

there's a win in Dubai that's opening

opening a win that's we got to go we got

to

go oh kidding aside I want to talk to

you guys we talked yesterday with about

this you know he said it's taken longer

to get approval to launch Starship than

it did to take launch so this sort of

push on regulatory we're hearing over

and over again you work with the FAA

closely um can you just describe the

path to bring them along get the

certifications that you need um and how

much of a push or a pull that is in each

of your businesses yeah I mean I guess

I'll just start you know obviously um

from the autonomy standpoint

specifically you know we're really we're

trying to push the frontier and so

whenever whenever you're engaging with a

regulator no matter if it's Aviation or

if it's biotech or some other thing if

you're really really on the frontier it

means that that the regulator doesn't

necessarily understand the technology

any better than you do and so part of it

needs to be kind of a journey where

you're going together to really learn

how to make it safe at some point um you

need to be regulated you know there

there needs to be a process of you

putting forth um you know the engaging

in what what are the requirements you

putting forth here's how we're going to

meet those requirements and then as a

process I think that you know honestly

from my standpoint that actually works

okay um I just wish that it was a little

more responsive or engaging on some of

the like deep technical subjects that we

have to advance do they have the people

inside the that's part of the challenge

so part of the challenge is that is that

in aviation partially because of what

Peter teal said yesterday you know

there's sort of a generation of you know

if you went into Aviation when I went

into Aviation the demographics were

completely upside down people you know

people were retiring new people weren't

coming into the industry and so all many

of the experts in the fa that that have

regulated some of these systems that

have created really safe airplanes have

retired um there's a lot of new people

coming into the industry which is great

but um don't necessarily have the

expertise of having built some of the

systems that we're now building and so

there's some way that we almost need to

get people to come through the industry

and then I think this is a really

important point and it's countered to

what RFK Jr has been saying over and

over again and this is why I I push back

on him I'm sorry this is off topic there

there is a very important reason to have

people from industry become part of the

regulatory framework for regulating the

industry because if they don't they

don't know how and they're going to have

a a complete aversion to embracing

technological innovation that's why I

think it's important that there is a

rotation of people that are you know

consequentially not economically

motivated in some way but that

understand the technology and can

motivated but in that let me ask you

guys in markets where there is a

regulatory framework that allows for

Accelerated output of innovation let's

take China for an example um there's a

good ab test maybe underway right now

what companies are doing eval technology

in China how good are they and then

given the way that the Chinese

government can kind of step in and

accelerate outcomes are we going to see

and are we seeing uball and Technology

you know kind of coming to Market fast

and in a kind of accelerated way in

China like we're seeing with nuclear and

other tools that the government is a

priority in a mandate yeah I mean you

have you have ehang and autoflight and

they uhin and you know a bunch of them

are making great progress there's a lot

of enthusiasm in China the regulatory uh

pathway there is uh uh more forward

leaning I I think as as Adam pointed out

and uh I think you're going to see more

more rapid iter iteration I think the

good news here in the US is that the fa

is uh in the process of releasing

something called Mosaic which for

aircraft that are smaller than ours uh

aircraft with with like two passengers

in them more of a personal ownership

type of thing that's going to allow much

more uh rapid development and a lighter

a lighter touch from the fa just to put

this in context the fa has done I think

an incredible job and they've really

been leaning in when I went and first

talked to them in 2009 they they thought

this was like absolutely crazy like they

just did not think we were going to be

able to build an electric air aircraft

let alone one that could take off and

land vertically and which was quiet and

all these all these different dimensions

we then you know began working with them

regularly in 2015 uh began formal

certification 2018 had uh stage 4 G1 and

in 2020 G2 uh and and then G3 and now

we're working on stage four so it you

know with each uh you know we are

building momentum we are writing all the

rules uh it's very heavy lifting uh

and told me once he uh cuz has been kind

of the first through the through the

pipeline there and he said I feel like a

pipe cleaner for for how to certify

these things and uh I guess I there's

one thing I would just throw into the

regulatory like context just just

because I I think you're bringing up a

good point is it's not like these things

were sitting on the shelf and and a

regulator was sitting somewhere saying

you can't use that we have been on a

journey that we just all talked about

getting these things ready so they're

now just at the point where they're

ready and the question is can we take

that first step in the US to really get

it done and does the US do they approach

that from a culture of let's just try

something if we get it wrong we can

iterate it or it's is it more we must

get this right because there's all kinds

of consequences political or other it's

so much more simple than that they want

to do it the people at the top are

actually genuinely very excited former

fa administrator Billy Nolan stepped

down from his role joined Archer the new

one Mike Whitaker came from an e talk

company they were very excited to do it

the challeng is with probably most

regulatory you know setups is not a lot

of incentive it's not like there's a

downside to not doing it a lot of

disincentive to do it meaning if

something goes bad it's there's only

downside there and it's a slog and it's

hard like this is hard this is not easy

to go through all this there's the

incentives are not great and then on top

of all of it there's no policy saying

hey America needs to be Innovative we

need to go do this let's go and get it

why is there no mandate like it would be

great if some leader said

you guys need to get this done and we

need to have these things flying safely

in the next 36 months like how does that

happen in our current system I can

understand Happ Trump literally put out

a video on it he put out a video agenda

number whatever 39 or something like

that where he talked about building

future cities I'm guessing he went to

Dubai and then I'm sorry but is that

something Adam that we could change

through an executive order I think it's

culture you have to change meaning like

we will do this and break down all the

barriers to get it done because it's

it's not that hard like you can like

we've all laid out the rules to certify

like why can't you let us just go do the

tests and then if we do the tests you

check them off we're

good that if you're a bureaucrat if

you're working in one of these

organizations if it goes poorly you're

in big trouble if it goes well are you

well the SEC had you know this mandate

it's very similar to you know allow more

accredited investors sophisticated

investors allow people you know to to

take tests and to just allow more access

to private companies and invest which

would be good for a company and they and

they have slow walked it so I think

that's part of the problem is just to

build on what ad okay let's just say the

SEC doesn't do anything it or they do it

and they make a mistake nobody at the

SEC will get fired just like I I don't

think the culture is that if you know

something if a commercial airline has an

issue or for example in the 73 Max 737

Max issue did more people at Boeing get

fired did more people at the FAA get

fired or did nobody get fired nobody

Aviation Aviation is different on the

like in the comparison with the SEC as

an example like Aviation is different

like actually Aerospace is different and

and and I would just call out one thing

that I saw on the stage yesterday which

which really hit me if you saw elon's

face when he talked about the safety of

the astronaut like you saw his face he

was almost crying yes he was almost

crying and that's what Aerospace is all

about and so I there is a um the the

reason that the industry has been able

to get to that unbelievable statistic

that I just talked about is that it's

gone through all accidents it's gone

through terrible things that have

happened and have turned into the rules

that we are now all being regulated

towards what's happening now is that

we're showing up with new technology so

I'll give you an example like

regulations they currently say the pilot

shall do X and it says that you know 50

times Well we don't have a pilot and so

when we're showing up we have to kind of

rewrite what that is I understand why it

says the pilot shall do X it says that

because there were accidents in the past

that have now been regulated out of

existence but you're also looking at it

from the the negative point of view how

many lives could be saved if we got this

stuff into pick a country India or

Africa we could bring clean water and

medicine and supplies to people disaster

relief it doesn't cost $10,000 an hour

to fly a Blackhawk anymore into some

disaster relief situ situation costs

$500 an hour and we can send 50

immediately and they're always available

the uptime is super huge and so I

actually think you could save a lot of

lives too if you what about saving lives

here in the US we we lose 40,000 people

every year on the roads which is insane

uh and we fly almost as many miles as we

drive so like driving is more than

10,000 times more dangerous per

passenger mile than flying is so we can

actually by moving people into the air

for their daily Transportation make the

you know save thousands and tens of

thousands of lives but we need to get

the technology out there we need to

start learning I hope uh Peter teal had

it wrong and we are going to get flying

cars in the next couple of years and I

want to thank you all for being here

please join me in thaning our

than