Doesn't that make you sad though? Like

we're losing that human component.

>> The [music] relationship component of

business trust is still really

important. [music]

>> The longevity of your brand depends more

on the strength of your community. The

old playbook is no longer valid. [music]

>> This new environment, the agent to agent

trading. I used to think about what

would happen if like a rogue person came

on trade web and did a fat finger.

>> Now it's not a [music] rogue person,

it's an agent. And it's not a fat

finger. It's milliseconds of activity.

You're seeing doubledigit traffic

increases.

>> Yes.

>> Wow.

>> Social media have certainly created a

halo with 5,000 [music]

people in her audience. She sold 11,000

pairs of jeans within the first 36

hours.

>> How do you unlock staying [music] power

in a position like this?

>> The question I like to ask my team is,

if our brand disappeared tomorrow, would

our customer miss us? [music] And where

would they shop? I think the biggest

recipe for disaster sometimes are

companies that think they have a

monopoly [music] on something when they

don't.

Welcome to a new episode of Power

Players and uh jacked up for my next

guest. Very excited to uh welcome back

Billy Halt, Trade Webb CEO. Good to see

you, man. It's been It's been a while.

So, what is um for those not familiar

with Trade Web,

>> what are you guys up to and what do you

do?

>> Big kind of grownup company these days.

We're a global global marketplace that

kind of lives and breathes in fixed

income derivatives and ETFs connecting

sort of the institutional market, the

biggest uh asset managers, hedge funds

in the world, insurance companies with

their market makers, the biggest, you

know, the biggest global banks, Goldman

Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, City

Bank, and then really interesting, a

force in the market that is becoming

bigger and more wellknown, which are the

non-bank liquidity providers, the

citadels of the world in the Jane

Streets of the world. So, it's an

interesting business

all about technology and my general

instinct is it's a it's a sort of sweet

spot for us in the business because as

you know really well um you know the

hyperscalers continue to sell bonds so

debt markets continue to grow um I think

there's a moment of deregulation in the

marketplace so the banks are back in the

business taking on more risk and um the

forwards around technology continue um

you know the markets continue to move in

a more kind of technological transparent

place. And I feel like we're kind of

like in the middle of it, like busy as a

company, you know, public company now,

you know, all these years later.

>> Um,

>> last time we talked, we didn't even talk

about hyperscalers.

>> Yeah. And I think I knew the I knew the

expression hyperscalers, but it didn't

because I had no clue.

>> You know, you asked me a question about

AI, and that was like a, you know, an

interesting question to ask, you know, a

marketplace about AI, but the world's

you know, the world changes quickly. So,

how does say um in the early days of

Trade Webb, did you view it as a tech

company?

>> It's a really good question. I viewed it

as a as a kind of financial service

company that lived in in the technology

space,

>> but I don't know if we've kind of

thought about it all the time as like

this like it's like a tech company like

traditional tech companies. And one of

my kind of thoughts is we are a

technology company um obviously but we

are a technology company that really

speaks the language of the markets and

what we try to do is we try to think

about our clients not just as clients

but as real partners of us as we kind of

continue to build and innovate

marketplaces.

>> What do you think about um how quick and

fast the markets are becoming? I talked

to I think it was on here recently

Coinbase um CEO Brian Armstrong and

we're talking about um automated trading

and AI agents trading for you. I'm like

Brian this is wild dude. How is

this going to impact a platform like

yours?

>> Yeah, it's amazing right? Like now we're

having conversations really about like

you know agent to agent trading is that

the end state and I kind of keep

thinking to myself a little bit like wow

look how far we've come

>> cuz when trade arrived on the scene it

was like not quite the age of like you

know liars poker but it's like the bond

market this is like old school stuff.

Yeah, this is agent to agent

>> agent to agent is like yeah what are we

talking about like you know in an

interesting way you know today believe

it or not like 2026 trade web's biggest

competition is ironically still the

phone so there's still a lot of like old

school traditional business that gets

done you know in my area of the market

that being said like AI and the

evolution around frontier markets is

still like front and center on

everyone's mind like how is AI

ultimately machine learning

really going to get applied in a

sophisticated way. Data is like the key

component to things. It allows people to

search for and find liquidity in much

more efficient streamlined ways.

>> So on the but going back to the phone

thing, so this is like Wall Street 1987

people if I what would I call you trade

up for? Like what's that what are those

calls like? It's like, well, we we have

some actual areas, you know, of our of

our company and our business where there

are still people kind of doing

brickandmortar business, but I think in

my analogy of like the phone, you'd be

bypassing poor me and bypassing trade

web and doing business directly on the

phone, you know, with a bank. And so,

you know, the idea is is that like

there's still types of businesses and

types of trades where it's not quite

like 1986 Wall Street with Bud Fox, but

it's like, you know, it's it's a great

movie. It's like phone based business.

Um, and that for me is, you know, a lot

of the opportunity that we have as a

company is to continue to apply

technology in the right place. Um,

>> doesn't that make you sad though? like

we're losing that human component, you

know, but there was something seeing Bud

Fox call up, you know, his client

>> like the the, you know, the relationship

component of business is still like very

interesting to me. And so when I think

about what we've tried to do at Trade

Webb, it's it's been to kind of honor

the concept of relationships in the

market. I think trust and how you build

out marketplaces through technology, the

trust component of it is still really

important. I have I hope I think like

really great relationships that exist

kind of all through

>> you're a cool guy

the ecosystem of of my world and those

relationships can be a difference maker

but it I still do have like a little bit

of nostalgia believe it or not for like

the way the old the world you know used

to work. Um,

>> so this new this new environment, this

agentto agent trading, how how do you

prepare a platform like yours for the

next decade of this only accelerating?

>> I mean the you know interesting question

like the the first thing and maybe

probably the most important thing is

like the the amount of energy you have

to put now into cyber and risk

management is huge. So we have an

amazing kind of risk team inside the

company and the way that we think about

the cyber security world is obviously

extremely important. And then the other

thing you're always trying to do is like

evolve around um what are the rules of

the road that allow clients to find

liquidity in the right way and in a way

that works for the marketplace. Um, the

first kind of phase of this whole thing

was, you know, how do you get a client

to go from like, you know, the the

1980s, the Bud Fox, the phone thing to

the kind of mouse or the keyboard? And

that was a pretty big kind of switch.

And I think in the new phase of things

like the keyboard and the mouse, it

doesn't like have to go away. But I

think larger and larger percentages of

business will ultimately be done through

algorithms and a little bit more through

the kind of machine learning um AI

oriented uh you know ways of doing

business which is which is interesting.

>> I always hate asking the question of

like what keeps you up at night because

I always think it's an absurd question

because I don't know life keeps us up at

night. I know, shopping for food the

next day, like I need to like get my

stuff done. But

>> does the risk of a cyber attack in this

new AI era keep you up at night? How

like how worried are you that this can

happen?

>> Yeah, it worries me. I mean, because

Yeah, you always have to think about

like what's that what's that big risk

out there, you know? And so, you know,

I'm not necessarily in the business of

worrying. I like to think I'm in the

business actually of like optimism. And

I think part of the part of the um

[snorts] you know the job is being an

internal optimist. That being said, you

have to have a good risk orientation. So

it worries me. Um I used to think about

what would happen if like a rogue person

came on trade web and did a

>> like a fat finger

>> did a fat finger trade. And now it's

more of obviously like it's not a rogue

person, it's an agent. And it's not a

fat finger. It's you know milliseconds

of activities, right? And so all of the

the ways that you have to man that fort

need to become more and more

sophisticated. We're good at that. Um I

think it's one of the things that we

bring to the marketplace that's that

distinguishes us. But yeah, it's it's

one of the things that worries

>> is Wall Street more broadly how

aggressively is Wall Street more broadly

investing in this. You know, you talk to

all so many of these players in this

industry like how important is cyber

security?

>> We mean it's it's it's like you know, I

think it keeps everyone up at night. you

know, it's it's it's a thing that we you

can't invest enough in it. You can't

have anything other than, you know, the

best of the best of the best. And there

was probably a moment in time and I was

never like, as you know, like never like

the perfect expert at all this, but

there was probably a moment in time

where, you know, versions of, you know,

chief risk officers or risk areas were

not necessarily like first and foremost

like the, you know, the people that you

thought about the most. like those days

are like way over and all across Wall

Street it's manned by you know best and

brightest.

>> Sure. Being a tech company how how has

AI shaped your workforce and your

thinking about it?

>> You know I I I made a comment before

that um on an earnings call actually

which was kind of interesting. I

sometimes kind of like not to say like

completely cuff those but I'll I'll try

to bring my own personality

>> which of course the comm team loves.

They love that. Don't say that. Um, I

said something about like one of the

things AI does, it makes smart people

smarter. It makes efficient people kind

of more efficient. And I believe that

from my perspective, like my company's

not in like the the AI evolution to

necessarily

have less people. Um, you know, we're

not like some enormous kind of

monolithic company that by definition

needs to have less people. We look for

efficiencies. I have a I have a general

feeling and I'm curious what you think

that like by definition AI is not

necessarily going to replace people but

the people who understand and who use AI

the best

will ultimately be the winners. Well, I

do see it hollowing out various

departments of companies, but to your

point, these are very large companies.

And

>> look, it's hollowing out accounting

departments, HR departments. Uh, I'm not

saying that they're not going to have

people there, but not the people that

they had 10 years ago.

>> And, you know, these things kind of move

a little bit sometimes in waves. And as

you know really well

around some of the big announcements

from like the, you know, the big big

tech companies that they were going to

be, you know, laying off workers. Some

of that was a consequence of like, you

know, never let what's the expression

like never let a um

>> like a slow down.

>> Yeah, I I know.

>> You know, never let a crisis get in the

you know, get in the way of a good

moment kind of, right? And so it became

a good way to kind of say like let's

let's play things a little bit closer to

home. Maybe there was some kind of

overhiring in the past, but we've been a

company that has been able to for a long

time. I think, you know, we have good

scale now, over two billion in revenue

last year. Um, we've had basically

mid-teeen growth for the last four or

five years, and we have, you know, plus

50% margins as a company. So, we've been

able to kind of like navigate that, you

know, how do you continue to grow

business, invest, but also have, you

know, real profitability.

>> You know, I you have

>> I mean, I I it's not the right word, but

I I view it as plumbing. I know it's not

sexy, but you're so integral um really

to

>> to markets. Like, what what what is your

data telling you about the impact of the

hyperscalers as they come out with more

debt? Like, how does your company like

yours make more money? And then what's

the risk of all these companies that

really never focused on issuing new debt

now coming out with billions of dollars

in new debt?

>> I mean, it's it's um it's a combination.

Think about it as a combination of kind

of like private and public. There's

there's more debt to trade. Whether or

not that's government bond debt or

corporate bond debt as a consequence of

all of this need to, you know, to raise

money, you know, the markets are

continuing to kind of grow. And one of

the things that I say that's really

really important is, as you know very

well, like the Fed and interest rate

policy is obviously like extremely

important. And one of the big things

that's been happening over the past

bunch of years is that the central banks

are playing a less active role as buyers

in the market. That's creating a reality

where there's like the right level of um

you know risk in the system and volumes

have done you know exceptionally well in

the markets that we live in and the

profitability of our clients as a

consequence has been really high. So the

legacy banks, the Morgan Stanley's, the

Goldman Sachs, the JP Morgans of the

world doing like really really well and

then the, you know, the smartest guys on

the blocks, the, you know, the Citadels

and the Jane Streets who tend to lead

with, you know, quantitative first and

foremost are, you know, crushing it and

that's good environment when when

people, you know, are doing well. The

past few times we have spoken there's

been one constant and that has been

Jerome Pal as now former Fed chair. We

have a new Fed

>> and Kevin Walsh and to your point I mean

I hear those points like how do you

>> how could how do you think Kevin Walsh

will shape the Fed and what do you think

his influence will be on the markets

that you are involved in?

>> Right. My you know my we we talked about

this a bunch before. My instinct is, you

know, the administration

has wanted rates lower for a while. But

that being said, as you know very well,

there can be moments in time where, you

know, the Fed can cut rates and and you

know, the bond traders have their own

view.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And that's the bond vigilant.

>> That's the vigilante. You actually rates

are going to go up because we're not

really confident in this cut.

>> Um or we're not sure the cut's coming

from a great place. And so we'll see how

that kind of all plays out. my my

instinct is, you know, he's obviously um

you know, bringing a lot of

reasonableness to the equation and I

think he looks at things in a complex

way. Um

>> how how disruptive could it be if he's

not out there giving forward guidance?

If more Fed members follow his lead and

don't doesn't do interviews or the Fed's

not out there,

>> it's going to be it's going to be it's

going to be a different personality, a

different regime, different personality.

>> And my instinct is I'm not really sure.

We're going to have to kind of wait and

see. I would say given you know the the

you know I think we've said like oh the

market's gone through an unprecedented

moment like a bunch

>> right everything's unprecedented right

like we've gone through obviously like

in a very short period of time like

>> you know the pandemic the you know to

some extent the the regional banking

crisis which you and I have talked about

and then you know the tariffs on tariffs

off kind of moment of you know 15 months

ago. remember that

>> the markets, you know, it's like that

was that yesterday or 10 years ago

>> and that's you know the the function of

the market in a lot of ways on the fixed

income side is really kind of held in

which tells you that like given all of

that the the participation

um and the way that the function of the

market um continues to do well I think

says a lot. I mean it should give I

think people um a fair amount of

confidence that the um you know the

participants know how to handle you know

a significant amount of adversity at

moments in time.

>> What else is trade web not involved in

from a business standpoint that you

would like to be involved in over the

next couple years?

>> It's an interesting question like how do

you keep your eye on like your day job

of kind of leadership in these kind of

like traditional markets and then find

new opportunities out there? I would say

like you know very bluntly you know me

like as a public company sometimes that

can be harder because you have

shareholders you have quarterly earnings

you have you know margin margins all

that nobody likes all that fun stuff

>> but you don't like earnings calls is

that what you're trying to say

>> sometimes once in a while I try to hide

during earnings calls but the truth is

like there's a lot of opportunity in

what we kind of think about as like

frontier markets so whether or not

that's like the tokenization of kind

real real world assets like the concept

that there will be equity and fixed

income um securities that wind up

ultimately on a chain. I think that's an

important concept. And then the other

thing I would say is that like from an

institutional perspective, you and I

have had like great conversations about

like where are we going with crypto? Um,

but the truth of the matter is I think

there's a lot of reasons to think that

there will be ultimately an evolution of

crypto from a retail product into a real

institutional product. And and we want

to play a big role in all of that stuff.

So, it's not just the traditional

markets, it's also obviously like the

frontier markets and where's the

disruption around these frontier markets

really going. Are you are you happy with

Trade Web being in the background? Like

I feel like more people should know

about what you're doing.

>> I I um I do too. It's not that I get

like frustrated um being in the being in

the background, but I sometimes think we

have this pretty cool story to tell and

you know you you allowing me to come on

here

>> like I've been early. I'm pat I'm

patting myself on the back.

>> This is not our first chat. I like

and how much how much in sales will

roughly will you do like how much how

much business

>> so so think so so I think about scale so

we're we you know we were over you know

over two billion in revenue last year um

>> that's huge

>> you know we've grown kind of 13 to 17%

over the last you know four years

>> just by being in the background.

>> Yeah just by you know just by by being

humble and being being in the

background. And then we've, you know,

we've shown that we have like a real

orientation to profitability because

we've expanded our margins as we've done

it. Those three boxes of scale,

profitability,

um, and growth are not always easy boxes

for companies to check and we can check

them. Um, sometimes it's like what's the

thing like um, know where you are in the

totem pole.

>> Yeah.

>> Of it all. We have like big high-profile

clients like you know it's it's it's

Goldman Sachs, it's JP Morgan, it's

>> and they don't want to be in the news

anymore. They're okay with being know

your place in the world.

>> So once in a while it's okay to kind of

recede

>> into the background. Um but as a public

company you have to make sure

>> you know you get your name out there the

right way and you tell the story the

right way which which hopefully we we

get to do. I'm really fascinated by

leaders who have been at companies for a

long period of time and you have been.

When did you start train?

>> Yeah. No, no, I so I've been at the

company since 2000.

>> 2000.

>> You and I had an amazing conversation.

Obviously, as you know, we were 911

company. We talked, you know, in a very

heartfelt way about 9/11. Um, I I've

been president of the company since

since 2008. I became CEO four years ago.

>> What what how

what steps do you do you take? day to

day or did you take day to day to go

from president to CEO? Like what every

day did you wake up thinking, okay, I

need to get here. I need to do this. I

need to befriend this person. Like what

was that like for you?

>> It's a really good question. It's a it's

a it's an extremely interesting

um I don't know if it's a lesson, but

it's an extremely interesting thing to

be a very um ambitious person because

only ambitious people become, you know,

number twos in companies. So, by

definition, you're ambitious, but you're

not, you know, the person in charge. Um,

and sometimes you have to park your ego,

which is kind of interesting. Um, I was

really lucky because I had a great

partnership with, you know, the longtime

CEO of my company and we were kind of a

uh, you know, a twoman duo for a while.

Like, um, you know, it wasn't quite I

don't know, Batman and Robin sounds like

weird. I know you that was Robin like

you know um and at the end of the day

you know in a great way like um he was

ready to retire and I was ready to

become CEO and so that moment kind of

happens I think um and you're lucky

because it's not always that way as you

know there those those uh those moves

you know up the ladder

>> can come with some kind of elbows you

know here and there and I was I was

really really lucky cuz I didn't want

that um back to the concept of

relationships like life's pretty short

>> and it's nice to be able to kind of

achieve something you want I think the

right way and I was fortunate to have

that for sure.

>> How do you unlock staying power in in a

position like this? Um, never rest on

your laurels to start with. Like never,

right? And so there can be never kind of

a moment of relaxation like we got this,

we're good. You know, none of our

businesses are on autopilot. We have uh

zero monopolies in kind of anything we

do. And I think the biggest um recipe

for disaster sometimes are companies

that think they have a monopoly in

something when they don't. Mhm.

>> And so, you know, we're we're we're

really really strong on that. Um, and

then the other thing I would say is like

really like spend time with clients,

like hear from clients like directly.

>> Um, and the more you do those kind of

things, I think the the feeling is you

can stay on the, [snorts] you know, on

the front foot on change.

>> Good to see you.

>> Great to see you.

>> I thank you for doing this. These are

our first 10 in palatial Yahoo Finance

HQ.

>> And by the way, great area of New York.

So, it's it's it's wonderful to be down.

>> I'm I'm a lucky guy. Good to see you, my

friend. I appreciate it. All right,

that's it for the latest episode of

Power Players.

>> I'm really excited for my next guest

because it goes back into my uh really

long time interest and former analyst

self in retail. I want to welcome on

Paxon CEO Brienne Olsen. Uh Brienne,

good to see you. Like I I'm I joke with

you off camera. I'm dating myself. Paxon

was the first company, one of the first

companies I covered as a as a retailer.

It was it was y'all when you were

public. It was Abberrombie and American

Eagle. It was just like this golden era

of softline or especially retailers.

Everybody was opening stores and you

would just find these amazing things in

the mall. Um but I am definitely

definitely dating myself. So what have

you been working on at Paxon now? I

believe what you're you're privately

owned.

>> We're privately owned. I've been with

the company almost two decades and we've

been through a real transformation. And

so I just came out with a book called

co-created that outlines the

transformation over the last 15 years

specifically and really goes step by

step in the road map of how we did it

and what the transformation process was

like.

>> If I walk into a Paxon store today, how

is it different versus 15 years ago?

>> First of all, you're going to walk into

a store where it's not just a retailer,

it's a brand. So 50% of what we sell at

Pacon today carries the namesake brand

Pacen. So your favorite pair of jeans,

Paxon branded. Your favorite super soft

hoodie, Pax Unbranded. And you'll also

find collaborations and co-created

product from different brands and

collaborators in music, sport, fashion,

and art. So you might find something

from Formula 1 or the Metropolitan

Museum of Art. You might find your new p

favorite pair of jeans from Selena Gomez

with the rare denim edit that gives back

to youth mental health. Or you might

find a piece from Fear of God, Jerry

Lorenzo's brand or Brandy Melville, John

Galt. So I would say it's a nice

compilation of brands under the Pacson

brand and label. How did you know when

that you had to make that pivot to lead

with the Pacson brand and and was there

a piece of data that said, you know

what, um, I'm not going to stuff my

store with more Adidas. I I need to get

into Paxon.

>> I think there was never a doubt in my

mind from the day I joined. I came from

Abberrombi

and brands like Valentino and John

Franco Fereet where there's just a

tremendous amount of pride in what it

means to be a brand and yet Pacon had

this very unique history and kind of

rich architecture of what it meant to be

a house of brands and so I think

blending the two was the real magic in

terms of giving ourselves a very unique

place in the marketplace but starting

from the positioning of what is the

Paxon brand? What does it mean? What do

we stand for? And then how do we choose

our partners in terms of collaborators,

branded partners, co-creation?

>> What did did you have to stand up

basically a new muscle and a new supply

chain in the company given that you are

now putting your own label on these

products? Like how difficult was to to

build that muscle inside of this

company?

So the muscle was already there. We had

been building great private label

branded product but not under the Paxon

brand. So there was a brand called

Nollie. There was a brand called Vert.

We had a brand called Kira. And you're

probably smiling because you remember.

>> I I do. I remember writing about all

this stuff. This is wild. This is

>> And we had a pretty substantial denim

business called Bullhead. And in the

end, when we were doing consumer

research, the most basic focus group

would tell you, you go into a guy or

girl's closet and you look in their

closet or on their floor and what are

their favorite pair of jeans, bullhead.

Where did they get those bullhead jeans?

They really can't remember because it

wasn't memorable, right? So now you look

at Tik Tok, we've sold a million pairs

of jeans on Tik Tok alone. You go into a

girl's closet today and it's full of

Pacson branded product. It is a constant

reminder in his or her life of what it

means to shop at Pacon and what does

that brand mean to you? Is it still I

went to the website and hat tip to you

because I think what you have in the

stores. I I go to the stores. Um I I'm

on your line. I'm on the website. It

looks great. It really does. Does it

seem to really be capturing this moment

in how that next generation is shopping?

Like is it still California inspired?

>> I would say more specifically it's Los

Angeles lifestyle inspired. So you think

about what Los Angeles is really known

for in a cultural hub and you think

about the FIFA World Cup or you think

about the home of sports and

entertainment, fashion and art and it's

kind of inspired loosely by that but

also with the ability to scale globally.

Just at the end of May we opened our

first store in Dubai and thousands of

young people lined up and it's been

outperforming all of our expectations.

So I think what's really exciting for us

at the brand is to watch Pacon also now

go global and to see the resonance

that's happening not just in the US but

also on a global on a global stage.

>> How many stores are open now?

>> We have about 310 stores in the US and

we're working on our first three in the

Middle East by the end of this year with

an expansion plan for 20 additional in

the next few years. Wow, it's good to

hear a retailer back to opening stores

again. That is some cool stuff. Like,

how did you identify the Middle East as

a growth area for the company,

>> you know, it has the highest index of

young people of Gen Z in the world and

so that at a starting point plus a

culture that has a real love of shopping

and a real interest in the Los Angeles

lifestyle and everything that we stand

for. So, music, fashion, art, sport

really resonating. Our UFC product is

some of our best performing out of that

Dubai store in our first um few weeks.

>> I I point to really I think three brands

as I'm just like going through my local

mall uh in my head that are that have

been around for a while but are seeing

turnarounds and I would say successful

turnarounds. I'm going to point to Pson.

I'm going to point to Abberi Fitch and

I'm going to point to GAP. Like what do

you why do you think these brands have

been able to live on? Is it one part

nostalgia and then you know leaders such

as yourself identifying that but also

raising the game for what the company's

doing?

>> I think nostalgia plays a very small

role. If you look at the research, there

certainly is for Gen Z in particular a

look back at nostalgia, but at the same

time the amount of brands that are

exceeding expectations and able to

connect on nostalgia alone, you can't do

it. I think the common thread for GAP,

Abbercrombi and Pacen today is really

putting a community first lens on it and

being very thoughtful about how we're

connecting GAP in particular with music.

They're doing a great job in connecting

with music and culture. They had a

fantastic activation at Coachella. I

think the work that Fran has done at

Abberrombi, she has been very thoughtful

about really listening to consumers and

getting that feedback circle and at

Paxon the real power of co-creation and

no longer building product for a

consumer but actually bringing the

consumer into how we create our

operating structure. And that would be

things that we've done to give the

customer a real seat at the table.

Whether that's our youth advisory

council which are 14 young people

between the age of 12 and 26 who are not

a focus group. They actually come in and

advise the leadership team on how to

navigate the vision in the future for

the company go forward and they are

really helping with things such as

technology new app launches um marketing

launches. They're not here just to

advise on product which is a pronounced

shift from how things used to work in

the past. We're also doing our own

research with global data with our youth

report and we're interviewing 6,000

young people each year to get at the

why. I think there's a lot of research

that gets at where the rankings are,

what's trending, but it's not really

getting at why is the consumer shifting

in this way? What are the emotive things

happening in a young person's life that

are creating these shifts in shopping

patterns or behaviors? And so that's the

research that we're really focused on

and building an ecosystem and a platform

with our Paxon community hub that also

is leaning into creativity and I think

in the age of AI really creating some

protection and insulating that um true

consumer participation is very very

important so that we can protect the

creative process. I really believe more

retailers, especially uh specialty

retailers, need one of these youth

advisory boards that you have. Uh I

think is an amazing idea. What have you

heard recently from, let's say, 12 to 18

year olds that come in there and talk to

you and the leadership team? Like what

what are they calling out as things they

they need right now from a company like

yours?

>> So, it's really interesting. Purpose

does matter. They're looking for brands

that they can connect with beyond the

product. And so they care about leading

the meeting the management team. They

want to understand more of the why. They

don't want to be a part of the process

at the back end. They want to be a part

of the process at the front end of like,

hey, here's people we could collaborate

with and they want to be participating

from the get-go on what that looks like,

what that feels like, how is the

outreach. We also recently had our youth

advisory board do mall walks and they

all came and jumped onto Zoom afterwards

and shared their feedback about what are

they liking in certain store

experiences, what are they not liking,

how much engagement do they want, things

that are really hard to get from a

survey, right? It requires a whole

different level of participation. And

they helped navigate our new app launch.

And they were in the alpha and beta

phases for months and months giving

feedback about how it actually needed to

operate differently so that it was more

like the apps that they were using and

behaviorally was going to emulate kind

of the way that young people want to

engage with a brand and want to consume.

How fast are you able to move in

bringing to life what that that young

shopper wants? You I recently had a

conversation with uh Elco Terang and uh

they are doing a lot of interesting

things on Tik Tok and the fast some of

the fastest product they can get to the

market takes them six months like what

is it what does that lead time look like

for you?

So in some cases, we've been able to

re-engineer

our supply chain to get product in four

to six weeks. So similarly to ELF, we're

seeing a lot of strength in live

shopping, Tik Tok, and getting that

immediate um I would say social

response. And then if you have fabric

positioned, if you have a nimble supply

chain, we've been able to accelerate and

leverage air to ensure that we're

getting product into the hands of

consumers 6 weeks later. And so I would

say that's a real strength um of Pacun

and being able to respond because part

of opening up this process of

co-creation and also being very active

and listening to the community is

reserving enough open to buy and really

building an infrastructure where we're

producing quality product but at a

fraction of the time that traditional

retailers would be looking at. Does the

you shopper that comes into the store,

do they want to be engaged or they do

they want to be left alone?

>> They actually do want to be engaged. And

I think that that is a pronounced shift.

I think that there was a return to a

desire for experiential participatory

retail. And I think that that has been a

shift that we've been noticing as we've

seen our store traffic climb into the

double-digit positives is not only do

they want to participate in events and

see the brand show up in unique ways

like truckside at Formula 1 in Austin,

that's a surprise to them. It's a

surprise and delight moment, but in our

stores, they're looking for

understanding what's the latest new

brand drop. Coming in with their friends

and having it be a social third place.

And so I think putting a lot of emphasis

on what does the engagement with the

consumer look like when they come and

want to actually participate in the

stores is really important.

>> You're you're you're seeing doubledigit

traffic increases.

>> Yes.

>> Wow.

>> Which has led us to open 20 stores in

the last 18 months. And I think you know

social media and social commerce have

certainly created a halo. We had a

particular gene, the Casey gene and the

asteroid wash, where on the open creator

platform, we had a single customer

qualify with 5,000 people in her

audience. She bought a pair of our

low-rise Casey Astra jeans in our local

Nashville store. She went home, made a

Tik Tok video, put it on the open

platform. She sold 11,000 pairs of

jeans. Remember, she has 5,000 people in

her audience within the first 36 hours.

So [snorts] you see this type of, you

know, verality and I think it speaks to

the overall focus of also as a company

being willing to relinquish some control

to your community and really allowing to

engage with them in meaningful ways

because this generation both Gen Z and

Gen Alpha consider themselves the

greatest storytellers and so they want

to be a part of a brand. They don't want

to have a brand pitching to them. So I

think that shift has created you know a

lot of changes internally for us and

also externally of how do we really

incorporate this into our operating

system. Co-creation is not a tagline.

It's not a marketing tactic. It really

is how we are operating differently.

>> It sounds like a more resilient business

is being created. Like, you know,

usually like we're we're in the summer

right now and and when I was an analyst,

we'd always think about a back to school

starts in mid to late July or back to

college and how that goes will determine

how the holiday season goes. But I don't

think that applies anymore. Just

listening to you, like you have the

ability to tap into major trends

happening in real time on social media.

It's almost like the the complete retail

playbook is being rewritten.

>> Absolutely. And that was really the

impetus for why I chose to write the

book co-created now because we're at

this very interesting point of

inflection where the old playbook for

retail is no longer valid and the

longevity of your brand depends more on

the strength of your community than your

ability to chase any individual trend.

For those leaders that that are watching

this uh and they are interested in in

your book and what you have done at

Paxon, what's the one step they can take

today to start turning around their

company if it's not operating at the

level they would like to see?

>> I would say two things really. The first

is the power of co-creation, which means

no longer treating your customer like an

audience, but treating them as a partner

to build with. And that fundamental

shift will shift internally all of your

processes. And it will also shift your

marketing and how you go to market with

your product. The second I would say is

insatiable curiosity of really

continuing to dig as the customer

continues to evolve. As there's so much

advancements with technology and AI, I

think curiosity around your consumer

really having and building relationships

with them is more important than any

data dashboard that you could receive.

Do

>> does Pacific Summerware or Paxon there I

go Pacific somewhere Paxson does it want

to be a public company again? Do you

want I mean just you're telling like one

hell of a story here.

>> Yeah, we're certainly exploring that

option.

>> Mhm. Very interesting. Um

I imagine you've had some really

interesting mentors over the course of

your retail career. Who is who have you

learned from and what did you learn from

them?

>> Yeah, Doug Roush is one of my favorite

mentors of all time. He was an early on

employee at Trader Joe's as they were

just setting things up. And he is also a

board member of Conscious Capitalism

Group. And I have learned more in my

interactions with Doug than in probably

any conference boardroom. It's so

simplistic how he thinks about the

relationship with the employee, the

consumer, the brand ambassador, and what

a purpose-driven brand really needs to

be about. But it's been a real unlock in

terms of a very refreshing source of

inspiration in a world that's inundated

by AI and technology of really taking it

back to its core. What do you stand for?

Who should you be hiring? And how do you

build a community that actually cares?

And so I would say Doug is at the very

top of the list. I also had a mentor Jim

Guly who was our interim CEO at Pacson

for a number of years. He had never been

a CEO before. He had been the longest um

CFO in the public traded market for

Janesco and he came in with a real

hyperfocus on transparency around

financials for the internal organization

which I think fundamentally looked at

changed the way we looked at the numbers

and I think that that also was a pivotal

mentor in terms of how I think about the

go forward and how you create real

transparency

um in a function that in many

organizations is kind of untouchable and

so our finance organization I would say

is incredibly helpful resourceful

they're a team that people want to go to

and that's a big shift from what we had

five six years ago

>> you know you you worked you've been at

Pakistan through some challenging times

too in those challenging moments what

did you learn about yourself as a leader

I think I learned or I tapped into what

I had been kind of taught my whole life,

which is there was a lot of resilience,

but there was also a very strong sense

of belief. And I think that comes across

in terms of kind of my value system and

my ecosystem is creating a very strong

vision for the future and creating

context and a reason to belong is super

important in particular in challenging

times. And so the question I like to ask

my team at the beginning of most

meetings is if our brand disappeared

tomorrow would our customer miss us and

where would they shop? And if you

struggle in answering those questions,

then you kind of have to go back to the

drawing board. And so I think you know

with the advent of brands and you know

uh retailers such as Amazon, we had to

really kind of rescrupt like what do we

stand for? They're offering so much

convenience and you know how are we

going to compete? And I think as you

continue to challenge yourself as a

leader and you ask those tough

questions, it brings the team closer

together, but it also makes you it

forces you to get real clear on why do

you deserve to have a place in the

consumer's life and why do you really

need to matter? And that's when we

really made a pronounced shift to hey at

Paxon our purpose is to inspire the next

generation of youth and create community

at the intersection of sport, music,

fashion and art. That is a very

different place than what we were 10,

15, 20 years ago when our mission or our

purpose was to be a retailer that

curated the best brands out there. And

so I know that our purpose today sounds

lofty, but it gives people a real reason

to be motivated, to stay engaged and to

make a difference in the world. And

that's a lot of the philanthropic work

that we do and the work that makes us

also proud to be a part of the Pac team.

And I think that it also really

resonates with the consumer as they dig

deeper into trying to understand what a

brand is about, which Gen Z and John

Alpha really care about. they're going

to find the backbone of a brand and a

leadership team that really care.

>> How how do you get the team to buy in

the vision or buy into the vision that

you are

conveying when when times are tough?

>> You know, I think the first thing that

we did is the leadership team and myself

built this vision together. So it wasn't

a singular person or a singular team or

function that came back and said, "Hey,

this is what we're going to be about."

We first shared a lot of customer

intercepts. We did a lot of work. We

showed the organization how does the

brand make the customer feel. And in

these customer intercepts, customers

were sharing that they feel the most

seen when they shop in a Paxon store,

that it's their safe place for how they

can individually express themsel from a

fashion perspective. And so as we shared

that, we realized that we carried a much

larger emotional weight with the

consumer than we might have previously

seen. Then I'm a big believer in

constant learning and constant

curiosity. We brought in executive

coaches and leadership coaches to work

with the teams to really do the work to

understand why the work matters. There's

a book by Bill George called the true

north and it comes with a workbook and

most people in the organization have

done this work and it really forces you

to get clear on what is your purpose,

how does it tie into your purpose at

work and what is really motivating you

to move forward with this vision. And I

would say, you know, in a few cases, we

had people do the purpose work and they

were like, hey, I I belong somewhere

else. I'm not doing what I meant to do.

And that's a good outcome also. So, I

think getting really clear on our

purpose, ensuring that the whole team is

brought along, continuing to develop and

invest in the teams is equally as

important as the investments we're

making in our stores, in rolling out

global and opening new stores. So, I

would say it's an overall balance. And I

think in more challenging times, you go

back to your purpose and it's a reminder

of why you exist. You go back to those

customer intercepts and you refresh them

and you make sure you're being true to

what your values are, who you're

collaborating with, who are your

co-creators, what are you building for

them? And in the end, the question is

also in particular as it relates to AI

when you're making these advancements,

what's the final impact to the customer?

Does it matter to them? Does it make it

better for them or worse? And then you

can go back to it's just as important to

decide what you're not going to do as

what you are going to do. So I think

those are also questions that we're not

afraid to ask ourselves as a part of the

leadership team.

>> Well, good to see the work you're doing

there. Good to see this turn. Looking

forward to uh staying in touch and

following uh this journey for Paxon.

Paxon Paxon uh Paxon CEO Brienne also

good to see you. I appreciate it.

>> Thank you so much.

>> Of course. All right, that's it for the

latest episode of Power Players.