We are back again. Speed insighting our

way through stuff about how hard life

is. The Queen of England died 18 months

ago. She ruled an entire nation and

accumulated more wealth than 99.9% of

humans. And yet, you haven't thought

about her except for right now. No

matter how big your dreams, you're going

to die. Everyone will move on. Do what

you want. It sucks to not be liked, but

it sucks more to not be

yourself. Yeah. It's really interesting

when we think about what tactically

happens when someone dies, right? Like a

lot of emotion exists in the vague, but

far less in the specific because you

plan your funeral, right? And then you

think that everyone's going to be

standing there just forever changed

because of the death and the impact that

you had on their lives. But the reality

is there's going to be a caterer at the

funeral. Some people are going to like

the food. Some people are going to

comment that it was too cheap, you know,

the food that you had. Um, they're going

to have comment on the venue like, "Oh,

I don't really, you know, it's a little

hot. There's gonna be somebody who's

gonna uh make a list of people and

they're going to check them off. Some

people aren't going to be able to make

it last minute because things came up

and it got busy." And after the whole

funeral's over, everyone's going to go

to a restaurant and just eat dinner and

then move on with their lives. And so

not to say that you know the people who

you know mean a lot to you uh won't

remember you to a degree sure but on the

macro scale when I think about somebody

like the queen who accomplished so much

in her life as like the the zenith of

you know

accomplishment and most people probably

even thought about her today except for

the fact that we just brought it up. And

so I think that just it um whenever I

have um my harder times, that's my my

like reminder to self of um the

absurdity of it all, which is like

someone's going to argue over what

appetizer they're going to serve when I

die. This probably doesn't matter that

much. How does that change the way that

you show up and operate in the moment? I

think it just decreases affect in in the

in the acute moment. So I, you know, I

define resiliency as the amount of time

after an aversive stimulus, after a bad

thing happens, that you return back to

baseline behavior. And so, um, and then

there's different one, which is how long

is your fuse, which is toughness, and

that's a whole different thing, right?

But resiliency is like, okay, I've been

cracked. You know, I've hit the fuse,

the bomb's gone off. But the size of the

bomb is irrelevant. Like you could be

super resilient, have a terrible day,

your father dies, and then next day

you're back. People are like, "Holy." It

was like you like go to the depths of

hell, you touch the bottom of the pool,

and then you shoot back up. And so I

think about how many different tools can

I have in my tool set to make the

rebound from down to back up as V-shaped

as possible. What are those tools for

you?

Cosmic relevance is probably the biggest

one when I think about like because it's

so fast. I feel like I do it almost

automatically now, which is like, okay,

I'm on a planet spinning around a sun

inside of a galaxy inside of a universe

that will never reach the end of because

it's it's expanding faster than the

speed of light. Okay, the fact that, you

know, there was a mistake in my book

printing, no one's gonna care. No one,

it just doesn't matter, right? Um, so

that's one of them. Another one's the

frame of the veteran, which I use a lot,

which is, um, if this inconvenience

happened a thousand times in a row on

the thousandth time, what would I think

about it? Well, I'd probably be like,

well, this is just how life is. And then

if I could feel that way on the

thousandth time, then it means that I

can feel that way on the first time

right now because it's just choice

because the actual circumstance is the

same. Um, those are probably like my two

most prevalent, you know, the ones that

I like my default ones that I they're my

back pocket. There's a a cool insight

that the more you complain, the less

accurate your model of reality. So

complaining is you saying the world

isn't delivering to me that which I

anticipated or expected or desired from

it, which is also you saying I don't

understand how the world works until it

comes and meets me in reality. God, I I

haven't heard it phrased that way and I

really like it. Um I I think about um

the the hate um that we all get whether

it's from ourselves or other people or

the hate that we spew towards the

external conditions is simply boiled

down to this person lives their wife

life in a way that I would not prefer.

And so I have translated every single

negative comment that comes to me um

where someone complains about me. So,

flipping the script um to Alex lives his

life in a way that I would not prefer.

And so, it's actually been this very

weird like, oh, they said all this stuff

and I was like, does that mean that I

live my life in a way they wouldn't

prefer? Great, because they live their

life in a way that I wouldn't prefer and

that's why it's their life and I live my

life and it's just been this really

wonderful reframe that like just almost

comically make that but like completely

minimizes most things. But I think that

complaints come down to that. The

universe exists in a way that I would

not prefer,

right? It's like, why are you not

bending to my will? Yeah. And so, um, I

think, uh, shoot, I can't remember the

psychologist. I'm I'm going to butcher

it, but one of the big guys, um, talked

I want to say Kinsey, but I don't want

to mess it up. Um, talked about there's

three primary things that everyone uh,

casts all their pain and suffering to,

which is you have circumstances, you

have other people, and you have self.

And that's it. Those are the three those

are the three big ones that everyone

puts all of their all of their blame on.

And so the first two obviously don't

serve you. The third sometimes serves

you depending on what you do as a result

of it, right? And so um that actually

those big three has just been a really

easy filter is like, oh am I blaming

circumstances? Am I blaming other

people? Am I blaming me? And um

obviously you want to skip to you cuz

that's the only thing you can do

anything about. the idea

that all of the things that you're

working toward, all of the dreams, all

of those things are going to stop. There

is going to be a day when you no longer

answer your emails. Like I think about

this, I think about how many even now,

right, emails not been allowed for that

around that long, widespread, what,

maybe 25 years, something like that. The

most people have had an email address,

maybe 20 years.

uh all of the people that have died

between then and now. They just have

email inboxes just accumulating stuff

from uh you know lots of newsletters,

lots of online retailers. But there will

also be people expecting a reply, right?

And saying why hasn't this guy replied

to me? It's like because he's dead.

Yeah. There's

um just thinking I I mean I think a lot

about the end of my life. Maybe it's a

borderline obsession of mine, but

thinking about like what the last five

years are going to look like and also

thinking about my cognitive decline,

which is going to be inevitable on the

back half of my, you know, life. Um, and

it gets really tricky when you think

about fluid intelligence, which peaks

when you're like between 25 and 35, and

then like at our age right now, it's

just all going down, right? Like we're

beginning this slow decline. And in

thinking about that, I was like, I will

actually never be sharper than I am

today for the rest of my life. And the

idea that there will be young people who

will replace me because humans are all

replaceable. Um we have proven that. And

so uh when when I think about that it it

decreases the stakes of these huge

dreams that if I don't accomplish them,

I will be upset or else. Um and so it's

like we have these big or elsees like we

threat we want to threaten the universe

like I can't stand it if this does not

occur. It's like and the universe

remains unchanged and the universe is

undefeated.

Correct. Well, that's why I was such my

Twitter bio for a long time was locally

reversing entropy. I remember that.

Yeah. Yeah. And I just love that idea

that

you have the entire universe. This force

entropy which is going to inevitably

destroy everything. Not just everything

you care about. Everything that could

have created anything that anything

could have cared about and it's going to

destroy it. Yeah. But for a brief period

of time, you know, a few decades, you

locally stop the most powerful force in

the universe. I think that's so

cool. I don't know if you saw this, but

Basos has this one page that um was just

brilliant. And he basically um

paraphrases Richard Dawkins talking

about how over

time all organisms revert to their

environment. literally like the

temperature of your body once you die

eventually just normalizes with the

environment. The acidity of what's going

on like inside of your body normalizes

and then eventually like you become one

with your environment. And so it's the

exact same concept. And so Basos was

talking about that quote which was about

biology but he said this is you know

originally about biology but so much

more so about um the way that we want to

live which is that everything around you

will try and force you to dilute

yourself. it will force you to try and

merge in fit in with your surroundings.

And he said like this force is natural

and it's inevitable and yet we have to

fight it. And the fact that it's hard

does not make it less worth it. And I

thought that was like it was just I I

mean I reposted cuz I thought it was so

elegant. It's like a cosmic regression

to the mean. Yeah, it's exactly that's

exactly what it is. Um, and yeah, so I

think if we all know that we're going to

we the regression of the mean is

inevitable like and like again I think

about these things that are I want to

say I don't know if humiliating is the

word but like humilityinducing. Um, but

like the idea that I'll die and then

like worms will eat my body. Just like a

very simple thing like that or if I died

like I was like what if I just died by

an animal killing me? I like sometimes I

think about that and I'm like I would

just be its lunch. Like everything that

I've done up to this point, it's like my

arm will feed its child and like my

thigh will feed it and then like they'll

leave some of it for the good meal. It'

be one one good meal and it just like it

just it just takes the the stakes of

like I'm so important, right? I'm all

these goals matter to just like I could

be lunch and that kind of, you

know, gives me one large exhale.

The single greatest skill you can

develop is the ability to stay in a good

mood in the absence of things to be in a

good mood about. I think that tweet has

been my theme for 2025. Um it's been

it's it's funny because that was the

most shared tweet I've ever had. Um and

it was it was like it's it was almost

um not the opposite of iron. It was

fitting, right? It was completely

fitting for the year. And it's been

because like this year I've had a just I

would say a series of unfortunate events

um that has occurred and it's really

tested my tools right tools in the tool

belt um for reframing reality so that I

can make my experience less you know

miserable. And so I thought about that

it's like if I were if I were to boil

everything down um of all the skills

that you can learn if everything that we

do eventually becomes irrelevant then

the single greatest skill that you can

develop is being in a great mood in the

absence of things to be in a great mood

about. And so one of the other frames on

this is most people don't question

someone who's in a bad mood. Like I'm

just in a bad mood. So it's like well if

you can be in a bad mood for no reason

it's like you might as well be in a good

mood for no reason because that one at

least serves you. And so I've been

trying to exercise like because there's

on one degree there's like let's count

things to be grateful for. On the other

side it's

like why do I have to have things to be

grateful for in order to be in a good

mood? Like why is trying to find things

a requirement of being in that mood?

Like can I not find things and still

choose to be in a good mood? Because

I've certainly not had things to be in a

bad mood about and been in a bad mood.

And so I've been trying to flex that

which is like sure we can find things to

be grateful for and when those things

pop up yes and of course it's a you know

it's a practice you get better at it but

like what if I can just be in a good

mood and so I've just tried to try to

break that that relationship between the

two because then it makes it contingent

on something that I can find. How

successful have you been at that?

Mediocre.

Well look I think it's a it's a a lovely

idea in isolation. Sure. uh in theory,

but I'm not convinced about how

effective it is in practice for the

reason that humans have a negativity

bias. You know, it's our psychological

entropy% and your ability to detect

things that are a risk to you

significantly better than your ability

to detect things that are just pleasant.

Like this morning, I texted you and I

was like, "Hey man, like I really love

the feeling I have of anticipation on a

morning before we do a podcast. That's a

normal, boring, mundane source of

pleasure to me." Yeah.

If I'm not really really training myself

to notice that, yeah, I just it just

falls away with the fact that,

huh, I asked for almond milk and I bet

this would have been better with like

whole milk.

That's the thing that that ruins the

day. And the thing is, you do notice it

though, right? You do notice that. Um,

so I've had um one of my themes this

year has been focusing on moments and on

both the positive and the negative. And

so like when we think back on if I think

back on the last year, right, I don't

remember probably 95% of the year like I

you know I did the same things and so

it's like it just didn't get recorded

like nothing notable happened. Um and so

really like when we think about a year

we really just recall a handful of

moments and that's it. And those moments

in time are usually very short. And so

I've been trying to think about um the

bad, you know, seasons as well maybe it

wasn't a bad season. Maybe I had five

bad days or really five bad moments that

I then thought about for the entire

season and turned what would have

otherwise been 5 minutes times five into

an entirely bad year. And so it's like,

okay, well, if we can do that in the

negative, can we do in the positive,

which is, you know, obviously the thing

to to exercise. But to the point that

you said earlier about our our ability

to detect threat and risk at such a such

better accuracy than our ability to

detect good things, it's so interesting

because if you use that side of your

brain, um, not to derail us, but like I

think that has been one of the things

that's helped me a tremendous amount in

business because when I think about a

business and I want to grow it, for

example, I would think, okay, what are

all the things that can destroy this

business? And this is Charlie Munger.

this isn't me. Um, but basically he says

invert always invert. And Einstein said

that too. And it's because like you get

to use this this way stronger horsepower

engine of like how do I grow my

business? That's a you could obviously

think that way, but the alternative

would be like how would I absolutely

destroy this business in the fewest

possible moves. And then when you list

out those moves, you're like cool, now

let's do the opposite of that. And that

has been um honestly a lot of the some

of the sources of my greatest kind of

creative moments have come from these

apparently obvious things that would

kill us. Well, what if we did the even

more obvious thing and did the the

opposite of what would destroy us. Um

and it's worked. It's worked um better

than I deserve. So, this is a problem.

Yeah. Uh you can be re rewarded

professionally for focusing on things

that you do not want to focus on

personally. And Ryan Long taught me

this. He was talking about how he

comedian, Canadian comedian, really

funny guy. Spends all of this time, you

know, dialing in these bits and

obsessing over how it could be better.

And then he says to himself, "Yeah, but

I don't want you to do that in your

relationships." No. Can you let that go

when it comes to the way that you show

up for your partner or your friends or

your body image or whatever? You don't

get to compartmentalize stuff like that.

And it is a

very unfortunate irony of the world that

the skill set you often need to become

successful in business is the one you

need to get rid of to be happy in your

life. Yes. So I was I was thinking about

what you were saying earlier with

regards to risk and our ability to

detect it. So the other part of that

that's been really interesting is we

also not only do we detect more threats,

we also overemphasize how catastrophic

they could be. And the converse of that

is we rarely identify the upside and

when we do we typically underestimate

the upside. And I think this is

something that a lot of people don't

talk about as much. Um obviously I

always have a business, you know, hat on

literally. Uh and but I think about this

because I think this is where like you

said it at the very beginning that

people complain because they cannot

accurately view reality. And so if we

tie that to this concept, then it means

that people will disproportionately

blame the universe and then perceive

significantly greater risk for them

asking Google out, starting a business,

taking a loan, uh you know, asking a

stranger to buy something, making a

podcast, and for fear of what other

people on the internet will say or

people who know them, right? Right? So

we we catastrophize this side, but the

flip side is and you hear this a lot

when people, you know, do make it and

what not. They're like, I never dreamed

it would be this big. Now, some people

are obsessive and like absolutely have

thought through everything. I fall more

on that side. Uh but uh on on the other

hand though, a lot of people do get

there and they're like, I never thought

it was going to be this big. And it's

because we typically just underemphasize

the upside, which is where from the

business perspective, it's like that's

where the alpha is. That's where the

outperformance exists. where most people

think, hey, this bet uh it could go to

zero. And you're like, h I don't think

it's going to go to zero. But even if it

did go to zero, I have a 10x here. And

so if I have a 50% shot at a 10x and the

other 50 is zero, I should take that

shot every single time knowing that I'm

going to be wrong half the time. It

still makes sense to take. And so I

think um people are not good at making

those riskadjusted return bets um

obviously financially, but even in the

very micro aspect of our lives. And so

the we talked earlier about uh you know

the cosmic irrelevance and the frame of

the veteran but there's a third frame

that I think about a lot which is I call

it play it out. And so it's like let's

no let's let's sit in there because

again fear exists in the vague not in

the specific and in the resistance. Yes.

And so like when we have these um these

spec specificities of like okay I'm

going to start a p I can't start a

podcast like okay it's this big vague

thing but no like let's play it out like

let's see what actually would happen.

So, I'm going to upload something and

then people don't listen to

it. Okay. Well, they didn't listen to

it. Okay. Well, then that's not a

problem. Okay. Let's say people Let's

see tons of people listen to it, which I

don't know how that magically happens,

but let's say tons of people listen to

it and they all hate it. Okay.

Immediately you have this anxiety that

No, no, but but let's play it out. Like,

what's happens next? It's like, okay, is

it going to change what I eat? Is it

going to change where I sleep? Okay,

let's say let's say I all of a sudden I

lose all the money that I have. It's

like, okay, well, I probably have a

bunch of people that if I really needed

to sleep on their couch or in a spare

bedroom, I could do that. Okay, so I'm

not really going to be homeless. And if

I really didn't have enough money for

food, I can go to a homeless shelter and

get food, right? So, it's like, wait, so

my worst case scenario is like I have

shelter and I have food and I'm still

breathing air. So, that's the downside.

And so, there's this catastrophizing

that we cuz we our brains are meant to

are meant to keep us alive. We literally

think if we fail, we

die. Like everyone will will ostracize

us from the group and we will be alone

and die. And so just actually playing it

out, not one step, but like two more

steps after that, you're like, "Okay, so

my actual downside risk is nothing, but

my upside is everything I've wanted. And

even if I even if I'm at 50% off on

that, it's still worth the shot." In

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i v o m nt o

us.com/modernwisdom and modern wisdom at

checkout. Have you heard Ferrris's idea?

The world rewards the specific ask and

punishes the vague wish.

I like it.

Very ferris. And it's it's getting it's

getting to this point here which is fear

exists in the vague and it exists in the

resistance. Going back to the single

greatest skill you can develop is the

ability to stay in a great mood in the

absence of things to be in a great mood

about.

There's again I think it's fantastic in

theory. I wonder how much it works in

practice. Both of us everybody would

love to be in a great mood for no

reason. Um so I guess you can perhaps

try and cultivate I can try and be

positive when there's nothing to be

positive about. I would say that the

other neurobiologically informed

solution to this is to find increasingly

small things to be increasingly happy

about. M. So, huh, that was a really

good training session. Yeah, look, you

know, it was annoying because half of

the gym's under construction and I got

some dust on my shoes. Yeah. But, huh,

that was a good session. I really

enjoyed that. Um, Rick Hansen who wrote

hardwiring happiness is 20 25 years old.

Um, hardcore uh neuroscience guy, dharma

teacher, meditation expert, life person.

awesome intersection all. And,

um, he has this wonderful acronym of

heal. have a positive experience. Mhm.

Enrich it. And by enrich it, he means

sort of sit with it. So you allow it to

you actually notice it. Absorb, which is

uh imagine that sinking down and

becoming a part of you. Uh and then the

L is optional, which is link. So you can

link it to a bad experience. And you can

oscillate between the two to help bring

down the the um volume of a a bad

experience. So right now there's nothing

else I want to be doing right now than

having this conversation, having a good

experience. Huh? But that just washes by

you and then you think in retrospect, oh

wasn't that that was like a good thing

at the time, but you don't ever actually

arrive at having a good experience. So

the enriched bit's important. So I'm

like, huh, this is cool. Like I'm

enjoying having this conversation.

absorb. Imagining it sinking down and

becoming a part of you, which is

basically spending 30 seconds to a

minute, letting it letting that emotion

sort of fill you out as opposed to

noticing it cognitively like allowing it

to go below the neck would be a good way

to put it. Okay, this is going to go

below the neck. This sensation go, huh?

Mhm. I'm actually like people are going

to watch this and and it's going to make

them happy. It's going to give them

insights about their life. And isn't

that lovely? It's the most obvious

thing, which is I mean this is a pretty

grand thing as things go. It's certainly

more grand than like I had a

nice coffee or something like that. Um,

so I wonder whether one of the skills

that you can develop in the pursuit of

becoming a person that's in a great mood

in the absence of things to be in a

great mood about is to become

increasingly proficient at finding

things to be in a great mood about. And

I'm aware that in your frame that still

makes it contingent on external which is

going to be an issue. I'm still happy to

be in a good mood when there is things

to be a good mood about. For sure. if

you can become increasingly skilled at

finding things to be in a good mood

about, I get the sense, especially if

life's kicking you in the dick, which

it's done to both of us for the last

while. Um, and I also think that it's a

an

interesting comment realization from

you, uh, given that you've been kicked

in the dick because you think, huh, this

is an insight that you will only learn

when things

aren't ostensibly going well. Yeah.

because it's the sort of realization

that you get when inertia and momentum

and bravado and confidence and and uh uh

upward trajectory are all taken away

from you and you go ah I'm like I'm

having to do the budgeting equivalent

like the the mental equivalent of living

on pennies from a well-being

perspective.

I want to say we talked about this four

podcasts ago, this specific thing which

was

that I have this maybe it's sadistic is

probably is the right word but like I do

take some sadistic

pleasure in or masochist I don't

remember the word is but when you when

you enjoy your own pain

um whenever I have these prolonged

moments of suffering that kind of break

past what I would consider the normal

variance of life right it's like no this

broke through the barrier of shitty um I

do have this history of having

significantly larger improvements that

happen post dip, right? So it's like we

kind of get the opportunity to buy the

dip uh for our own negative consequences

and I've I've bought the dip at almost

every time and it's rewarded me

disproportionately. And

so I I hate to make make a make a

parallel between like the economy or the

stock market and and your own internal

happiness, but I think I think that's

what's happening right now. Um but that

that that thought process has has

shortened some of the the the shittiness

that happens because then it's like,

okay, well it has to it has to be worth

it, right? I have to make this worth it,

right? Because I'm this this sucks. So

what what can I learn from this? What

can I be better from this as a result?

And so like obviously there's things

that I've been working on in order in

order to improve. But um beyond that uh

I because gratitude has been so

difficult for me which I've I've talked

about before like I never I've never

once said I am the the champion of

happiness but in an effort to try and

make it easier for me I was like well

how do you how do you how do you

operationalize gratitude right and so

the simplest way that I have is imagine

something

terrible and then remember that that has

not happened like it's like I I've yet

to find like that has been the the

simplest way like be grateful. It's like

what do I do to be grateful? Yeah. Like

no no no like that more. And it's like

that that it's like it's been difficult.

So it's like okay um and the on the flip

side imagine something that you love.

Imagine it's gone and then remember that

it's back again. And so that's I think

the operationalizing of those moments

which is I have this coffee moment man

if I never had another coffee moment

like this again. This would mean more to

me. Okay. And by doing that and by

remembering what it would be like to not

have this then this thing now in the

moment becomes worth more. And so it's

basically creating a wider discrepancy

between the moment we're trying to find

gratitude with and something else in

order to basically manufacture a delta

because I think that that to to your

point like we're so much more sensitive

to the negative delta than we are on the

positive delta that we have to make the

positive delta massive. And so how do

you make moments massive? It's like well

then we just have to drop the floor out

and then remember that now all of a

sudden we went from the bottom of the

pool back to the surface even though

we're not above the water. It's like

playing uh pretend. So I'm 100% playing

pretend. All gratitude is is playing

pretend.

I mean, sure. I think if something

happens and you're grateful for it,

that's you enriching something that

exists. But what we're doing, what is

enriching, mate? Uh, really noticing it

because things that you should be

grateful for will often pass you by

without you noticing them. So, we notice

them originally and then we notice them.

Do you notice them? Oh, I know. I have

to remember to be grateful and then I

have to go look for Yeah. But even

as it happens, right, and this is the

point, as it happens, I'm here. We I

went to Rufus Doul at um uh Q2 Stadium

in Austin, which is where the the

football club plays. And Rufus Doul,

great music, real cool, and with a ton

of my best friends. Um it's finishing at

a time that's not insane. You know, it

the weather was lovely by 6. Yeah. Yeah,

I was in I was in bed by 7:30. Um but it

wasn't that loud. The sound wasn't that

good. Okay. What? Everybody was like,

"Wish it was louder. Wish it was

louder." Because it wasn't. We were at

the very back of the stadium. Beautiful

view, but not fantastic for sound. You

go, "Dude, you're watching Rufus

to Soul in a stadium with your friends

in Austin. Weather's great. Everyone's

got a a beer or a sparkling water in

their hand having a great time." Just

this is something that you can notice in

the moment. You have Pick your

direction, Western Man. Yeah. And you

are picking the sound's not good. Yeah.

But in your business, you are rewarded

over and over and over again for

realizing that the sound's not good.

This can I've done this before. Uh, are

you zoomed? Can you do this? So, if you

look very very closely here, I might

even have to get out the way for the

light. The alignment of the Instagram

logo with the F from follow us here and

the N from Newtonic below is out of

alignment by what looks like one point.

It's less than a millimeter. Guess who

noticed? This guy. Uh I have been

rewarded throughout my entire

professional career for noticing things

that other people didn't and then

claiming that they were sufficiently big

issue that we should actually change

them. Yeah. Reverse gratitude.

like and this is a small thing. It is

now a big problem. It's a massive it's a

massive problem because you win in the

weeds. Yeah. But you don't win in the

weeds when it comes to happiness unless

you are doing it in the other direction.

Right. So you need to and this is so hot

and this is this is why we enjoy talking

about just for everyone who's listening.

Um Chris and I had a conversation prior

to this being like what are we what are

you thinking about right now? And so

we're both actually like in the same

vein of thought which is why both of us

were looking forward to having this you

know conversation with you guys um about

this this difficulty because one of the

other things that's come up with regards

to to gratitude and happiness has been

there's a second conversation I think

happens internally at least for me which

is that like I will judge myself on

being not as happy as I should be or not

like hey I didn't notice anything I'd be

grateful about you

right and so trying to separate the

fact that I like to take this to the

absolute extreme why should I be

grateful why should I be happy why do I

demand of my life that it must be happy

like that I must be happy during it

that's a demand and so I try to decrease

my demands in general as a habit you

know as a personal practice and so I've

been thinking about that that concept in

of itself because the very early the

earliest part of my career I just was

done with happiness I was like screw it

yeah it's just like it's irrelevant and

so now I'm getting to the point where

like well it'd be it would be nice

uh to also have this while I have I'm

aware that this is a very sort of basic

insight, but I do think that given

the starting point that you were at and

to a lesser degree, the starting point I

was at is like a homosy light uh like

lifestyle approach. Um that's a that's a

big deal to make this pivot and I think

it's one of the reasons I was

particularly interested in in talking to

you today

because I would say the last, you know,

three years or so since we've been

recording together. Yeah. From

a architecture perspective, it's largely

been the same. Yeah. That uh it doesn't

matter how you feel. Uh the hard work

just needs doing. Hard things are hard.

That's why they're hard. And and

disregard the emotions that getting in

the way of it. And I do think that that

works for a for a good while and it can

really propel you to great things. But I

also think that sometimes stuff you have

such a orthogonal change in the way that

your life's put together where you

go, I might have exhausted this fuel

source. I might need to switch from

booster rockets to something else. And

um yeah, you've got, as you said earlier

on about how you you take small bad

moments, maybe very impressive bad

moments, and then you scale them out.

Yeah. You're not having a bad year.

you've had a few bad days that you're

thinking about for the rest of the year.

I've found it helpful when I'm in a bad

season, like I'm in right now, to just

focus on having a good day. A good day

and a bad season is a bite-sized

victory. String a few of those in a row,

and a bad season feels less hard. I'm

pretty sure the difference between a

happy life and an unhappy one doesn't

come down to how many good or bad days

you have, but which days you think about

over and over again. In some seasons of

life, maintaining is winning.

Couldn't have put it better

myself.

Um, this has been the this has been my

my big focus right now is um and I'm not

the first person to say this, but just

winning the day. Um, and Bill Aman had

this uh I heard him on a podcast talking

about this hard season where he was

getting divorced. He just lost $4

billion in Perishing Square, his

investment firm. And he was not him

today. He was earlier on his career. So,

I mean, it was just the worst. And

because he had lost his money, the

divorce was for way more money because

it was based on his net worth that

didn't exist anymore and was just a

terrible slog. And he said one of the

difficult parts about that period is

that there was no one thing that was

like, "Oh, I can tackle this today."

Like, you're not going to finish the

divorce today. You're not going to undo

the $4 billion loss today. And so, it's

like when you have these larger, more

complex negative things that do scale,

it's like how do you how do you how do

you navigate through that? And for

anyone who's listening right now, it's

like maybe it's the bad breakup. Maybe

it's the or maybe you're getting

divorced, right? Or maybe it's like the

business isn't working the way you want.

It's like and there's like 10 things

that you have to fix. And it's like,

well, I can't fix that change in the in

the logo until the next run. So, I just

have to see this every single day. And

so, he he had this very tactical advice

which I liked a lot, which is he just

tried to make progress and that was it.

And he said, you know, in a day you it's

almost it's almost negligible, right?

But at 30 days, you're like, "Okay, I

moved this." And at 90, you're like,

"Wow, you know, this this is really this

has really materially changed um in

what's happened." Now, does this mean

that we're our mood is still being

dictated by circumstance? Yes, I'll be

honest. Yes, it does. But I think I

think many of us have this ideal. We'd

love to be able to great be in a great

mood with in the absence of things to be

in a great mood about. But sometimes

progress is the W. like maintaining in

some seasons is winning. And I've had to

tell myself that also that we can have

these different like on the on business

factor I'm murdering it. I'm crushing

there. But like I had I tore my quad

this year uh which sucked. I had a uh

yeah painful. Um I have a a neck thing

that's just been bugging the hell out of

me. Right. So it's like and I have two

great fears in life. One is that I lose

my mind which is really just more that

I'll be a burden to everybody else. I

won't know cuz my mind will be lost.

Right. Um and the other is chronic pain.

Those are like my two great fears in

life because chronic pain is really

tough. Like the first thing you think

about when you open your eyes in the

morning is pain and it's like It's

like and now I have to be in a good

mood, right? Because I demand this of

myself. And so um when in in navigating

those those scenarios um just trying to

chip away and also take the reverse of I

had this one great podcast today. I'm

going to make that thing the thing

that's making this a great day. And then

if I can make that great day, then maybe

it could be a great week. And then

trying to expand those basically like

let those good moments eat up the

season. And I made a conscious decision

on May 1st. And I think I did I send you

the the screenshot of my HRV. Yes. So I

It was May 1st. I was

like, "Fuck this." I was like, I told

Laya, I was like, "I have decreed that

the rest of the year will be good." And

so I'm putting so much mental effort

into this, which is why this is so

timely from from the from us talking

about it. um in actively trying to

minimize all the down things and super

super focus on those moments and be like

cool I had that good moment that's my

day's made and I'm trying to even say

that more like oh this podcast made my

day this podcast made my week now I used

to think oh this made my week when

someone would say something small I'd be

like that's what made your week like you

must not have a lot going on so true

right like ment like my own judge judge

machine right that's lame Yeah. Stupid

thing. Oh my god. How feeble, how small

is your life that something so

unimpressive is a source of gratitude to

you for a week or and yet. And yet,

yeah, your life is made up of small days

like this. That is what life is. And if

your expectation of life is that it's

going to be, well, until I play the main

stage at EDC, until I make the billion

dollars, until I get married to the love

of my life, until I get these things,

you're just holding your happiness

hostage, until something great happens.

And what if, again, what we said before,

what if something small could be

something great? Yeah.

And it's been and it exists in the

specific those like the tiny moments and

that yeah that's that's been that's

victories boring boring victories. Um

but but making trying to make it

basically I've had to recalibrate my

entire scale to how little of a thing

can happen that makes my day. How little

of a thing can happen that makes my

week. How little of a thing can make can

make my month. And like how crazy would

it be if a year from now I say 2025 was

a great year. You know I woke up

painfree for for probably like 70% of my

days. That was a great year. Like I got

to have coffee with Ila in the morning

once a week and that that filled me up

for the whole week. Like if I can and I

want to I I'm this I'm putting so anyone

who's listening this like I'm putting a

huge amount of my discretionary effort

into this because it's my belief that

right now what will what will prevent me

from achieving my ultimate goals cuz

that that is not gone. Um

um the thing that will achieve that will

stop me from achieving my ultimate goals

is um running out of steam because and

and this may not be real for some people

but like I don't need to do this. like I

don't need to work this hard. Um, and so

I have

to make or I'd like to I'd prefer to

make the ride more

enjoyable. We'll get back to talking to

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That's a huge departure. I think prefer

I will still I will still ride

at dawn. That's a huge departure though.

And look, dude, you know,

I the conversation that we had the other

week and I think the one that we're

having now, it might

be

less Gogggins

Jo screaming alpha motivation

sleep token track over the top of it

edit thing.

However, uh, one of the things that I've

noticed when seeing somebody that goes

from a position like the one that you

were in or the light equivalent that I

was to talking in this sort of a way,

there's an awful lot more humanity. I

think that people can see in that

because work until your eyes bleed.

Nobody cares about your emotions.

you, dude. Just go harder. Um, although

it sounds fantastic in theory, it's very

impersonal and it sounds it sounds

mechanistic. It sounds robotic. It

sounds detached and that's fantastic and

you can do that for a while. You can

completely disregard the way that you

feel for a while. Yeah. But only for a

while and sooner or later the entropy of

positive affect being a motivator. The

fact that enjoyment is efficiency Mhm.

does tend to catch up with you and it'll

catch up with you in sneaky ways. Yeah.

Right. The quad tear, who knows? And I'm

completely open to this. Who knows

whether the quad would have happened if

the book had been finished in twice as

long. Yeah. You know, your system sort

of contributes to itself in a global

sort of stress-based manner.

It's, you know what's weird is that the

thing that's made the season hard is not

actually like work ethic or even time

constraints because like I work pretty

much every day all day, but like that

that's that's been baseline and that

doesn't really bother me like I don't

bother very much. I like doing that. The

thing is that the nature of what fills

that time and so like if I have all the

things that are not work that are

related to work that I must do as a

result so that I can get back to doing

the work I like doing. like me writing a

book is the is the most fulfill like is

my favorite thing in the entire world.

Us doing these podcasts is some of the

best moments that I get to have in my

life. Um uh like twice a month I'll have

uh business owners who come out that are

bigger that were that are like kind of

like not portfolio ready but like

they're they're doing usually like you

know five to you know $25 million a year

like right in that range. And I get to I

spent a whole day with those 10

businesses and it's like and I tell them

I'm like this is the best. Like

I love this. This is my favorite thing

in my entire life. Um but it's it's

everything that's not that. Uh and Basos

talks about the overhead, right? And I

think it's when the overhead starts to

become a disproportionate amount of your

of your time. And I think that at every

level of at least entrepreneurship, I

get these periods where the overhead

just becomes bigger and bigger and

bigger until I fix it, right? Right. And

so like for us, I had I think I I told

you I'll tell everybody publicly like I

had I think eight or nine lawsuits

within um like 30 days at the beginning

of this year. And so I was like, "Okay,

that sucked." And then I'll tell you the

story that happened on top of this just

to give everyone some context. Um Ila

had a health thing. She went to the

doctor to get it checked out and uh Rea

was with her and uh I was like, "Hey,

you know, how's it going? what's going

on? Um, and she had said earlier like

she can't get in. I was like, what? What

does that even mean? And then and then

the next text I got from the EA was she

has cancer. And so I remember reading

that text and being

like, okay, uh, all right. This is

reality now. Uh, like this is now the

new frame. And I sat with it just long

enough to enrich and absorb that

concept. Sick. Yeah. And so then I was

like, all right. And so I'm thinking,

okay, like chemo, like what do we need

to do diet? Why? Like I'm already

thinking through this stuff and I was

like, okay, what kind of cancer is it?

What state? Like that's what I'm I'm

going with this. So I asked for more

details and she was like, oh my god, no.

The reason that it was delayed was

because the front desk girl has cancer

and she just messed something up and

that was what she was using as her

excuse. Laya doesn't have cancer. And I

was like, oh, she does have this other

stuff, right? But she doesn't have

cancer. And the the thing is is that Ila

after that occurred when I hung out with

her later that night um was, you know,

obviously annoyed at whatever issue she

was dealing with. But for me, I was

like, I saw her and I just gave her this

big hug and I was like, "Hey." I was

like, "You don't have

cancer." And so it's crazy. There's the

exact example of gratitude. This

terrible thing. And just kidding, it's

not a thing anymore. And now I'm really

grateful that you have the terrible

thing that you have now. At least it's

not cancer. And so, um, to bring this

back, that all still happened in the

same period of time. Um, and Chris

mentioned this earlier, uh, I don't know

if this before the spot, but like I, uh,

I, there was a, there was a mishap with

printing, um, my next book that's coming

out. And, um, the equivalent of one and

a half acres of trees um, basically

became unusable because there were

sufficient errors in the book that I I

couldn't in good EV, you know, in good

conscious kind of like the can. And it's

like how bad of a mess up does the does

it have to be on the can for me not to

sell it, right? And like I had to have

this internal I was like maybe I could

make it a thing like hey our our books

had some mess ups and we're and I was

like no one's going to care. No one's

going to care. They're just going to

remember that they got a up book.

And so I had to destroy those, right?

And so I I could I I have like seven

more massive ones, but I'm not going to

get into it. Um but the beauty of of

this entire thing was I got to have this

experience. um of being forced to say,

"Okay, is there a world where I'm going

to have to endure more of this?" And the

answer to that if I continue to do what

I'm doing is yes. And so I need to build

a legal team, which is what I've now

built. And I like and so there's these

things and all of a sudden now am I

better at gratitude or did I solve the

problem? I don't know. I'd be like

really like I I want to be real. I don't

know. But as of May 1st, things are a

little better. And my actual health, for

anybody who's a health nut, my HRV

average was about 32. Um, and I'd have

many, many low 20s days for a

36-year-old active male. Pretty bad. Um,

and since May, like May 1st, uh, I'm I'm

up like 15 points on my HRV. And I have

changed nothing. Like I like I eat the

same, I work out the same, I'm pretty

routine oriented. The only thing that

has changed was the decision that 2025

I'm not I'm not I'm not tossing out 2025

like and I started in the beginning of

the year and I was talking to a good

friend of mine and he was like dude

bad year. He was like He's like

stop saying that. And I was like

you're right I should stop saying that.

Uh it will be a handful of moments over

five months that were spread out and

then the back seven I was like I can

murder it. Turn this around.

Yeah. Exact. We're turning the ship

around. Right. And so that's I've

actually been like it's almost been like

an exciting thing for me right now. So

I'm I'm I have a little bit of a smile

because I'm I'm pumped for it. Personal

observation, you get absolutely better

returns at the top ends of achievement

because often times assets pull to the

winners. The problem is to achieve the

highest levels, you have to give up

proportional amounts of the things you

hoped the achievements would get you.

There comes a time when the hard work

you have to do is learning that you

can't work any harder any longer and

that you have to change what got you

here to what will get you to where you

want to go. You can work to get anything

you want, but you have to sacrifice the

other things you want to keep it. And

that's sometimes harder than the work.

Yeah. 2025

in the day. Yeah. Um the the the hard

remains the same. Actually, I've I've

given this a huge amount of thought. So

like what makes something hard like just

in and of itself like what actually

makes something hard and so if we think

about this as an aversive stimulus or a

negative stimulus then you have because

habituation happens on both sides and

this is what I think is so fascinating

because it's like okay well you know I

wanted this big thing to happen I wanted

the Rolls-Royce I wanted the Ferrari

whatever save my whole life and here I

am right and I was happy for a week and

then all of a sudden I got used to it

right so I was like why can't I

habituate to the suck right why can't I

habituate to the suck and the thing is

is that you do the only thing is that

what makes the suck keep sucking is what

makes punishment effective, which is

increasing intensity and variety. And so

if you want to effectively punish

someone, you can't just keep punching in

the same way. You have to increase

intensity and change how you do it. And

the beautiful thing is that life doesn't

fight fair. And so life will change the

intensity and will give you more

variety. I mean, how many times you been

like, I didn't know life could suck in

this way.

Like like this is a new one, you know,

like wow. Like you spin the roulette of

life and you're like, "Oh, here's

another one that sucks. My dick was

kicked from another angle." Yeah,

exactly. Congratulations. Had no idea.

And so, so in thinking about that, it

was like, okay, I think the reason that

the hard persists is because the nature

of the currency that you pay or that you

exchange for the thing that you want

changes because in the very beginning,

you basically have to like, you know,

conquer your friends and family who tell

you that this might be a bad idea. Okay,

fine. You get over that. And then you

have to conquer yourself into the most

basic level of like I have to do

something. Okay. So you start you start

taking action. You start learning you

start learning how to learn stuff which

is learning through failure and learning

through. So you start doing that and you

realize you're not going to die if you

fail. Okay. Then after that then it's

like okay but then now you have this

dramatic skill deficiency. Right? So you

have to very quickly level up in a ton

of different things um in whatever

whatever domain you're in. Right? And

then that that has many failure loops

that have we have we have we habituated

to failure? No. it's too it's too uh

generalized. So the failures that that

occur are specific and so it's just like

oh I didn't know I could fail in this

way, right? Like we had an event um so

we we hold an event at our at at our

headquarters uh like monthly and when

people come out I remember it was like

three times in a row there was this

thing at the front desk that got messed

up and I was like how like it was the

can thing. I was like how

how right and I swear to God they I got

I got the message back and they said um

well the system messed up in a different

way this

and I was like same issue new route

exactly and I was like and it it

happened three times in total and so it

was the same problem three completely

they're like well we fixed that version

of the problem but then this one came up

and so it's like it still sucked and so

the thing is is that I think failure is

our our habituation to failure is so

narrow that every new type of failure

there. All three of those hurt. Micro

novelty. Yes. And so um and so when I

think about that is like when like my

like I said this year financially has

been the best year of my life, right?

And so that's been awesome. Um but I've

had all of these I mean I've had uh I've

had health stuff le health health stuff

that was separate. We had legal things

which is another another whole thing.

Business stuff, book stuff. Yeah,

there's Yeah, there's the book and then

there's stacking stuff. Yeah, there's a

lot of things. Um, and so all of those

things happened and I was like, oh, I

was like, so it's just that the currency

has changed, the currency that I'm

paying. And so I'm very happy to pay the

long hours currency. I'm very happy to

pay the what am I willing to give up in

terms of social life. Like that to me,

I've habituated to that price. That's

not hard for me. I I don't even consider

it a sacrifice anymore, which is I think

what you want because people people will

sometime maybe see you or maybe they'll

see me and think of like the Gogggins uh

you know, work until your eyes blade.

thing is is that like and maybe maybe I

don't know Gogggins but well I'll just

speak for

myself I don't I don't really push that

hard like I don't really push I do it

and I've already habituated to this like

this is not this is not an excess for me

pushed in the initial to get up to the

moment and now yeah and I I like we

worked so I had my whole team in a in a

boardroom at the very beginning you saw

my my timer so I have a timer that's

well on my phone it has like 22 and a

half hours on it and so What I've been

doing is I've been challenging the team

to they wanted to do a 12-week project

and I said, "Hey, can we do it in seven

days, right?" And not only are we going

to do it in seven days, we're going to

actually see how many actual hours does

it take of us working together to get

this done. And my hope is that we get

the whole thing done in under 50 hours

with eight guys. And so I'm like, "Okay,

so we can shrink what was once going to

be 3 months into this period of time."

And so over the last two days, we just

did this and I'm going to do it again

tomorrow. um is that everyone was

starting to work at 7 and continued

didn't really leave the boardroom except

for like to use the restroom until about

9:00 at night. And so you're talking 12

14 hour days but like on the whole time

and the thing is and this is what's this

is what's crazy every single guy who was

in that room texted me afterwards was

like that was awesome like I

wish we could work like this all the

time. And so like I don't think like we

talk about work and what makes work hard

and all these things, but

like most of the things once you learn

how to work, the work itself is

self-reinforcing and you enjoy it. It's

everything else that you didn't know you

were going to have to sacrifice so that

you could get back to working. And so

that's that's where I've had to really

consider this uh Bulgarian method

approach. So, we talked about um a

powerlifter friend of yours who like he

went to go train with the best coach of

all time. And so, there's the Bulgarian

system, which is the same thing uh in

Bulgaria. This tiny little nation

disproportionately out competes in

Olympic lifting. And the way that they

do it is they have a system which

basically just breaks everyone who does

it except for the one person who can

sustain it and he becomes champion. And

so I actually see business unfortunately

or fortunately very similar in a lot of

ways which is that the path the uh the

science of achievement is fairly

straightforward right like you have to

pursue high leverage opportunities and

that is the working smart and then if

everyone is working smart then the only

thing left that you have to compete is

working hard right because people say

work smart not hard only works when you

compete against dumb

people like my competition is smart and

they're also working hard and so we both

have to work hard. And so, um, that

price though is has been something that

I've been staring at, um, for myself

because I've never had the aspiration of

being number one. I for at least for me,

it's not in my DNA. I haven't had that

desire to be the richest man in the

world. Not something I care about. And

so then it's it's getting into, okay,

what's the sweet spot that maximizes

enough where I can actually start

looking at some of these other

preferences that I have and say, you

know what, I am no longer willing to

make that trade. And the the other part

of me, we talked about lame earlier,

like oh, the coffee, you know, made your

week. Mhm. To the same degree. Um, oh,

like this is enough for you. Yeah. And

I've actually had a very, I would say

disdainful almost take when I would hear

somebody

who, okay, I well, take this. Fine. I'll

take take this whatever you want. Um,

you know, someone gets to a few million

dollars a year and they're like, that's

it. you know, I made it and I and and I

have to fight against this is what I'm

working on. Um I see that and I'm like

out of the game. Like he's out. He's

out. Yeah. Done. Like just quit too

soon. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's so much

so much juice left to squeeze, right?

But then it's like well the the thing is

is that the the juice that that comes

out is your output and the thing that's

being squeezed is

you. And so that's what I've been

thinking a lot about. Look at that

person. Yeah. who gets to however much a

year. 50 grand, 100 grand, a million, 2

million, 10 million. And they go,

"That's enough." Yeah. Who won of Yeah.

Because that person finished their race

way before you. Way before you. You're

the You're the that's

still running. Let me tell you this

story. So, my first gym ever, I had my

first manager who worked there. Um, and

he was a trainer. He was awesome. Best

trainer I ever had. and I promoted him

to manager. And with that pay raise, um,

he went from something in the

neighborhood of like $25,000 a year as a

trainer, uh, paid by session to getting

a salary of like $45,000 a year, which

for me was a ton of money at the time

when I was paying somebody else, right?

And uh, he did it for 6 months, crushed

it, did an amazing job, and he said,

"Hey man, can I talk to you after work

today?" I was like, "Yeah, sure, man.

What's up?" Like you're like, "You're

doing great, whatever." He says, "Um,

hey, I um I don't I don't want to be I

don't want to be manager anymore." And I

was like, "What do you mean you're

you're quitting?" He's like, "No, no,

no. I I just I just want to be a

trainer." And I was

like, "But I mean, but you realize your

your pay would get cut in half. Like

that like that doesn't really make

sense." And he just looked at me and I

still I remember this to this day. He

looked at me, he's like, "I'll just be

poor

then." And I and I it was like it was

like it was like a it was it was like a

bomb dead. I was like And I looked at

and I was I was literally speechless.

And I just

said, I respect it, but I will never

understand

it. And the thing is is that he is to

this day, I got to see him 10. I got to

see him three weeks ago, first time in

like 10

years. He was then the happiest person I

ever met. And today or when I just saw

him, just as happy. And he's like,

"Dude, I mean, I can't can you believe

that we were starting that gym and you

were at the floor?" And you know, we're

cing some of those old stories. He's

like, "Look what you have, man. all this

stuff and I was like, "Dude, you won."

Like, I'm still trying to catch up to

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problem is to achieve the highest

levels, you have to give up proportional

amounts of the things you hope the

achievements would get you. Yeah. What's

that?

I'll give a micro example of a sacrifice

that I've chosen to reverse, which is

that I love training. I love working

out. I've been I've been doing it. It

was it was my first love, the first

thing I ever liked, like really got

obsessed with. And over probably the

last, you know, however many years, I

still obviously trained. I was still,

you know, in shape. But my training was,

you know, sometimes two days a week,

sometimes three days a week. It would

be, you know, 60 minutes, maybe 90 if I

got lucky. Um, and I had this

realization. And it was during this

year, 2025, where I was like, you

know, I have all this money and

I can do whatever I want. And I was

like, and I can't even have my workout

be as long as I want it to be. And so I

basically made a rule for myself that I

will not work out if I am rushed. That's

the deal. And so I will work out for as

long as it takes to work out and that's

that. And so that means that if my

workout takes two hours or it takes two

and a half hours or I'm with a friend

and it takes three hours because we're

just like talking between sets and

having a great time. There are three

things in this world that bring me joy.

Working out with somebody that I like,

eating food with somebody that I like

ideally after I worked out and writing.

The three things that bring me the most

joy in life. And I was like, why am I

sacrificing one of the only three things

in this world that I know that I enjoy

to get something that I hoped would buy

me the freedom to work out as much as I

wanted whenever I wanted. And so what

are the things that I put on the altar

of the success? What are the things that

I sacrificed for this this god of

achievement? And I was like, this one

I'm not willing to sacrifice anymore.

And so I think part of the reason that

like has been a life a lifeboat for me

or a life raft while this kind of worst

season has happened is like I put on

like 20 pounds of muscle so far this

year because I've been able to like I've

been using that as a really wonderful

outlet and I was like man and I'm

focusing more on this like my training

partner every day I'm like dude thank

you for doing this with me like this is

this is awesome like this is great like

my I won the day like if I did nothing

else I get to the end of the day and I'm

like I crushed this workout and that was

and that's

It's a big pivot, dude. And it's one

that I

think everybody that's driven by the

sort

of hatred of past self, whip yourself

into submission, Puritan work ethic

thing will inevitably come to realize

after a time. There may be some outlier

for whom their their capacity for

discomfort and for sacrifice is

literally greater than the duration of

their life. Yeah. That they would have

got there eventually. They just died

first. Yeah. You know, and but I think

that for most people it's not. And you

reach I would call it something like

sort of uh lifestyle escape velocity uh

where you go I'm I all of the objective

metrics are right and the subjective

ones aren't. which is a good example uh

of sort of what you've hinted at. And

you

go, how can I assume that the solution

is fixing subjective metric problems

with more objective metrics and and and

then and and I'll say this for anybody

who's in the season where like listen,

you're 22 years old and you're like, I

need to work my face off. You do. You

need to you need to work your face off.

But the thing is is like there will get

to a point we're fast forwarding, you

know, however many years, but there's

nothing like I don't regret the amount

of work that I've done. Um, and I and I

I I don't regret it at all. And I think

that it was absolutely the right

decision. And I work a lot now.

But people make this extrapolated

moment. They take a moment of your life

and they will extrapolate it to forever

and assume that if you change your mind

that what you did before this was wrong,

but it wasn't wrong. it was right for

that time and then we got feedback

during a different time and this is

right for me now and so I'm going to

course correct now and if something else

changes guess what you're free to change

your mind tomorrow. Yeah. I I love this

and I think about it so much

that one of the issues with asking

anybody who's successful for advice is

that they tell you what they do now.

Yeah. Not what they did when they were

in your position. Thousand%. And you

should not ask somebody how are you

maintaining your success right now. How

did you achieve your success when you

were at the stage that I was at? That is

the question that you need to ask.

And it's the same thing.

And stupid people see somebody changing

their mind as a weakness, not as a

strength.

And if you are the sort of person who

goes, "Huh, this strategy worked for me

previously or didn't or I thought it

worked for me and it

didn't, I'm going to update the way that

I operate." Perfect example. I've been

on this sort of a flex similar to

yourself. I would say my uh lifestyle

escape velocity, I needed to reach a

lower altitude than you. So, I was, you

know, getting into coast uh as opposed

to still using the booster rockets

earlier. Um, but I started talking about

how uh like purposeful

deoptimization uh you know what is it

that you're doing the things for?

Transitioning from the work until your

eyes bleed to a different mode of of

reward and stuff like that. And some

people that I think don't understand me

super well, which is fine because no

one's supposed to understand you,

especially not random people on the

internet, but people will see snippets

of whatever's been sort of the most

salient narrative. And uh a bunch of

them said something to the effect of,

"Uh, bro sold us the problem, now he's

selling us the solution." Yeah. And I

was like, "Huh, that's really

interesting." Because what I'm doing is

saying, "This works for me right now."

And what I was saying in the past was

this works for me right now. Nothing has

changed. And this is why there's often

when it comes to sort of internet

advice, it's very patronizing the way

that the audience is treated by people

that are critics as if they're sort of

these

agencyless undiscerning sponges. Yeah.

That are totally incapable of applying

or filtering. Huh? Well, Alex doesn't

have five kids and no wife,

right? Like, I'm a single father, a five

kid. What, you know, living in Brooklyn

and a single bedroom. Okay, I I think

you might need to adapt some of the

things that he's saying or I'm twice as

old or I'm half the age, whatever.

Like, you should ask somebody what they

did when they were at the stage that you

were at, not where they are now.

So many things I want to respond to. So

number

one, my my embedded command to everyone

is use if useful. Use if useful. Number

one. Number two, this is a documentary,

not a sermon. This is a showing, you

know, like at least my content is like

this is me showing what's going on and I

try to be real and that means that if I

change my mind, then it'll change.

Third, model the rise if you want the

rise. Model the plateau if you want the

plateau. And so saying, "Oh, you know,

Warren Buffett says he had a great year

if he only makes one good decision."

It's like saying, "Oh, to get rich, I

should fly

private." Doesn't really work that way.

I should play basketball. I want to get

tall. It's your you're you're conflating

variables, right? I should I should go

to the gym once I have energy. I should

start saving money once I'm rich. Uh

like that's when I'll do it. It's just

it just conflates sequence, right? It's

a win-win fallacy. Um, and

so I think the the man I I haven't

talked about this in in I don't I don't

even know if I ever talked about

this. The greatest skill is the ability

to discern what things to use and what

things to cast out. It is the is it is

the the the central narrative of noise

versus signal. And the reason that I've

spent such a disproportionate amount of

time focused on behavior was because

there's so much noise that if people

cannot translate their quote advice into

what I should do, then there's nothing

useful about it. Which is why I think

the density of useful information uh

people I think people are blood hounds

for value. Um, but I think that value

gets translated

most in the most crystallized,

distilled, concentrated manner when it

can be translated into do this instead

of that. Period. And everything else,

the amorphous words that people use,

especially the, you know, the motivation

manifesto, the the the or just

manifestation, we'll get into that one.

Uh, people get triggered on that. Um,

that is what leads more people astray.

And so they take the entirety of someone

and without all of the other conditions

that apply to that person and say, "Oh,

I will take this and apply it to my

life." And if you cannot pull out what

is useful for

you, you will never win. And that is a

really strong statement, but because all

you're going to be doing is trying to,

and I love this is my favorite tweet

that I've heard from um Andrew Wilkinson

from Tiny.

M here are the numbers for my winning

lottery

ticket. Every entrepreneur explaining

how they were successful. And so like

the next Google isn't a search engine,

right? The best version of your life

isn't copying Hormosi or copying

Williamson. It's being able to with

nuance apply the principles that are

generalizable across domains but then

having the

wherewithal yeah the discernment to

apply the nuance to your specific

circumstance and being able to map those

two things I think is the skill that has

gotten me the disproportionate return on

my life. I have bought and I've been

public about this. I've been, you know,

very the earlier part of my career is

very involved in what I would consider

the alternative education, you know,

space, right? People, you know, the the

courses, the the world that has, I would

say, a relatively bad reputation. But I

have yet in my life to have purchased

anything from anyone that I have not had

an exceptional return from. And is that

because of them or is that because of

me? Who knows? But I can say that when I

even had bad experiences, I could say

these are all the things that I will not

do to a customer. And then I have my

notebook of the the crinkled can and the

end that's off the center. And that

ability to

observe and pause before immediately

taking action. Like there are some

people that I have met where I know I'll

tell you this story because it's it's

heartbreaking. I've helped a lot of gyms

in my career is, you know, probably my

second season of entrepreneurship. Um,

one of the things that we'll do to a gym

to make it more profitable is we, you

know, we adjust pricing. Sometimes we

write send a price raise letter and

this, you know, this thing's tested. We

that, we've done it hundreds of times. A

guy, you know, reaches out and said,

"Hey, I did your the whole price raise

and 90% of my members left." And I was

like, "What? Like what h like how what

happened?" And so he explained that he