Sydney Sweeney is probably going to be

soon the youngest self-made female

billionaire,

>> but I don't think she's like winning it.

[music]

>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Cara Swisser

>> and I'm Scott Galloway.

>> Hey Scott, I just flew in from

California.

>> Oh, really? So did I before.

>> Oh well, here we are. But listen, I have

a lot to tell you about things I've been

doing this week, but we have a big

announcement breaking late yesterday. We

are going on tour.

>> Yes, we are. Super excited. Back in

Canada. We've added Denver, which I'm

excited about.

>> Well, let me let me see. We're kicking

off November 2nd in New York City, and

then we hit Toronto, Minneapolis, LA,

San Francisco, and Denver. And you can

head to pivotourre.com for tickets. We

do sell out pretty quickly, so please

get there. And we want all our fans

there. And if you're not following us on

social media, you're not going to get

all the latest announcement. And our our

handles are in the show notes. But let

me tell you something. It's going to be

good. We're going to have so many so

many amazing secret guests. Correct. We

are.

>> I got to give it to you, Cara. You give

good event. You're very good at this.

Um, you know, I just kind of

>> Is there anyone you absolutely want in

any of these cities? Toronto Sydney

Sweeney.

>> I I can try. I can

>> I know her boyfriend.

>> As a palette cleanser, what do you think

of all this controversy on the script?

>> You know, I don't care. I like it's

stupid. I don't think it's a good ad.

Okay. I just don't think it's a good ad.

I think it's a stupid purant ad and it's

not very clever. Like, if you go back

and watch the Brook Shields ads, which

were very controversial, they're very

funny. The the dialogue is super funny.

This is just dumb. It's like boobs. Oh,

so boobs and some boobs. And I get why

guys like it. What do you think? You

like boobs.

>> Um I think my taste is a little bit more

Well,

>> oh, all right. I'm sorry. I I forget

that you've developed

>> all the notion that it's ruining women's

sports and the outrage. I think it's

ridiculous. I think that if she were a

black gay progressive, uh it would be my

body, my choice, sexist work, um you

know, girl boss, and instead because

she's a white MAGA

uh Republican, everyone's outraged. No,

I think it's a double standard. What's

happening to you? Like [clears throat]

everyone's going away from Trump. You're

moving that direction. No, I don't think

so.

>> A critical thinker. It's entire This is

entire This is entire identity

escalation [ __ ] politics.

>> No, it's just a stupid ad. Like I don't

I don't really care.

>> I'm not talking about the ad. I'm not

I'm talking about I'm talking about the

reaction to it.

>> Oh, I don't know. I just you know I

think if you if you're a woman in

sports, you have made a lot of strides

>> and it's irritating. It's it it's

>> Is it irritating when Sports Illustrated

does an entire episode on their bodies?

Is it irritating when US Open men take

off their shirts to increase their

clout?

>> No, it's not the same thing. You know,

it's not. Then, by the way, the picture,

go look at the pictures in I knew you'd

do this, but it it you go look at the

pictures in Sports. I never loved the

swimsuit issue. Whatever. I don't I

don't really care if people want to look

at ladies in bikinis. I just thought

it's just dumb. And she's appeared in

the second dumb ad. And I'm not sure

what she's doing with her.

>> It might be a dumb ad. It's not ruining

women's sports.

>> No, no, no. But it it's just like, oh my

god, really? You're going to put

basketballs in front of your nipples?

Okay, sure.

>> What do you Okay, we respect female

entrepreneurs. We en encourage women to

be entrepreneurs. We do.

>> Uh she's bought a ton of attention.

She's going to make a [ __ ] ton of money.

>> Yeah, but listen, I would go if I were

her, cuz I think she's a very talented

actress. She's kind of taken a weird

left turn off what I think is a very

promising actor. Excuse me, I should say

actor because I like to call that like

>> should so not be her agent.

>> What? What?

>> She should so not be her agent.

>> No, but I don't think she's like winning

it. I don't think she's winning. She

could

>> Sydney Sweeney is probably going to be

soon the youngest self-made female

billionaire.

>> Mm-

>> Are you kidding?

>> No.

>> How much? Okay, let's take a bet. How

much is she going to make from that very

offensive ad? I have no idea.

>> It was poor judgment.

>> I We'll see. I think

>> she owns a stake in the company.

>> I get it. But so did a lot. Listen, this

is I've seen this come and go. Actors

and owning things. I'm just telling you.

I think she's I think she's better. I

think she's got some bad advice. That's

my feeling.

>> So, you think she should have done a

dramatic reading for some kale oatmeal

company?

>> Mr. Anti-woke, which I don't know what's

happened to you.

>> Anti-woke.

>> Yeah, you are. Well, you always go, "Oh,

V signal." You anti-woke signal all the

time.

>> Anoke signal.

A [laughter] that's what you are AWS.

>> I I think it's just look I would say

someone she was on a show with Zenaya is

sort of handling her career really

interestingly and and it's not cuz she

she never utters a word about politics.

By the way, I've never really heard her

say anything.

>> Um but uh I I find I think she's sort of

I think if Sydney Sweeney went in that

direction a little more and focused on

what a good actor she is, she would I

get that she has nice

>> they have different assets. I guess I

think she's actually talented.

>> I think so in White Lotus. I just think

[clears throat] you can't stop looking

at her boobs, right? That's the whole

thing. It's the whole

>> And and why shouldn't she like men who

le anyways I

don't care. I don't honestly care. I

think she looks stupid. But whatever.

She wants to look stupid. It's the

second stupid ad, so I'm I'm questioning

her judgment.

>> You didn't like the jeans one either.

>> I was dumb. It was so like loaded and oh

let's make

>> sold a ton of merchandise made the

company a ton of money.

>> It didn't it didn't it was it was not a

win. That was not a win.

>> Not [clears throat] among young the

young folk.

>> You're signing up for the narrative and

ignoring the data.

>> Yeah. You don't I'm not ignoring the

data. I don't think she I don't think

she's I think she's going to have a less

good career. We will see in five years

who's the bigger star. Okay. Again, this

is the man who said Taylor Swift was a

passing phase or something like that.

You don't. She kills.

>> I never don't put words in my mouth. I

never said I never said Taylor Swift was

a bad her down. You were always Stop it.

I don't like her music. That's the crime

against humanity that you have levied

against me.

>> Crime against humanity.

>> How many Taylor Swift concerts have you

been to?

>> Uh, one big the big one. I couldn't

afford to.

>> Okay, so we're tied. I've been to a

Taylor Swift concert as well. I think

she's an inspiration. I'm glad she is

drawing outside of the lines and also

has incredible talent and is making

millions of dollars. Good for her.

>> Okay. All right. Carl Rove is about to

vote Democrat in Texas and you're going

the other direction. This is fantastic.

Anyway, nonetheless, we're kicking

>> going to Texas to campaign for Taler.

>> This will be Which one of us is going to

like Baby Jesus? I know you love Baby

Jesus. I know it. I know it. But let me

tell you, we're kicking off. This is

going to be [laughter] a good tour.

That's good. It's going to be a good

tour. Baby Jesus.

>> It's That's what I call them.

>> Guest stars James Tarico and Sydney

Sweeney doing a dramatic reading of

Shakespeare's

>> Oh, God. Tamia the Shrew. Um I I I met

him in Texas. You you kindly I think

introduced me to the PR person and um

and I he didn't like me calling him baby

Jesus. And I said, "Well, would you like

>> a little for for a pastor or whatever.

>> I know, but he's so adorable. I'm so

offensive. You call people so red pill

that time." I call him baby Jesus. And

then I he he says, "Oh, that's not a

good nickname." And he knows all our

nicknames.

>> Just call him BJ for short.

>> That's what I said. I said, "I'll call

you BJ." He goes, That's

There [laughter] you go. That's That's

>> He's so adorable.

>> That's an ad with Ted Cruz.

>> That's not Baby. He looks like Satan now

with his weird beard.

>> Looks like Count Choula.

>> Count Choula. He does. Did you What did

you like? What was it? Quis. Oh, that

was Quer Quake. We had to decide when we

were kids. Do you remember that?

>> I did. I was like a charms.

>> Okay. I do too. That's my favorite. My

My kids cultural appropriation of the

Irish.

>> It is still excellent. It is still

fantastic. Anyway, everybody, we have

we're we're bantering and arguing since

we're disagreeing and you're wrong. We

have got to get once again.

>> I am [laughter] right. We've got to get

going because rivalry is heating up

between the US and Canada this morning,

as you know, our Canadian friends. But

speaking of heated rivalries, get that

Canada heated rivalries, we are bringing

in Scott's other work wife to help us

break it down. Please welcome the

co-host of Raging Moderates, Jessica

Taroff. Her new book is out now. It's

called I Disagree: Winning Arguments

Without Losing Friends. Jess, welcome.

Welcome to our home.

>> I That's what this feels like. Like I

got invited to the big house.

>> The big house? [laughter]

>> Yeah.

>> The one on top of the hill.

>> The one on top of the hill. We were just

arguing before

>> the Mean Girls table.

>> Our mom and dad having a fight. We were

He's like going on about the great

attributes of Sydney Sweeney.

>> Sydney Sweeny's chest.

>> Exactly.

>> And you would know more about the two of

you. What's attractive [clears throat]

in breast than I do? They do look great.

>> They do. They're fantastic. That's a

nice car is making the point that if she

was smarter, she'd focus on her acting

capabilities cuz dramatic skills.

>> Oh, wow. Oh, she's going for the she's

trying to get us to disagree and and

>> then I'll fix it or I'll just leave I'll

leave you in a state of show off her

rack like Dolly Parton did and also be

talented. Is that correct?

>> She's both of those things. She's doing

both of those things.

>> She's having a moment across different

verticals, which is how you succeed.

Yeah. You see what I did there? But

also, there's a finite amount of time

when you look like that. Oh, you can

keep that going for a while.

>> I You know what? I don't even I just

love I love a woman who leans into her

aging. I think it's really I love that

confidence. And

>> I just can't wait to look at 60-year-old

breasts.

>> This is This is an uncomfortable

conversation for me cuz I find that

Cara, I really don't see age when it

comes to women and I don't see looks. I

don't see.

>> I'm going to show you my boobs in a

second and then it's all going to end

very quickly.

>> Jesus Christ.

>> They're nice.

>> Do I have to show my boobs to come to

everybody? But let's listen. This is

>> Well, you know my You know my question

when I meet a feminist, I ask them if

they'd still be a feminist if they had

bigger tits.

>> Oh, God. You wrong. Is that wrong? Is

that wrong?

>> Yes, it is. Yes, we disagree. That's

right up the

>> We disagree. Welcome back. Remain lose

Scott. We should lose Scott member of

the

>> and have a new show. We should like I'm

thinking of dumping him for Caitlyn

Collins. I'll be honest. According to

the comments, it's happening.

>> I know. Um listen, we I want to talk

about your Let's focus on Jess. Let's

focus on Jess. She's here. I just had

her on the show for on show for an hour

to talk about the book, but we're going

to get into some actual practical

aspects of your book, which is about

disagreeing. And you have to like endure

Jesse Waters. So, I I I feel for you,

honey, um kind of thing. So, let's get

into it. The Canadian Prime Minister

Mark Cart, this is a good example,

addressed the EU Parliament a little

while ago, saying Europe and Canada are

stronger together. The speech comes a

day after European Commission President

Ursula Vander Lean proposed that Canada

become EU's first associate member. I'm

not sure it's like a junior member or

whatever. Let's listen to Carney explain

his vision of this partnership.

>> We do not seek power to dominate others.

On the contrary, we are pursuing

resilience so no one no one can control

our open markets, impair our

sovereignty, threaten our territorial

integrity, or undermine our freedoms,

our democracies, our rule of law.

>> He was clear about what this alliance is

not about.

>> I also want to be precise about what I

am not proposing.

I'm not proposing a third block in order

to become a great power rival, only with

better manners.

>> Okay, Trump is not happy about this.

Even before Carney's speech, he said

Canada was becoming becoming an

associate member of the EU could be a

hostile act and he threatened to punish

Europe with, you guessed it, tariffs.

Just this is a real like what any advice

on Trump losing friends because he loses

a lot of there's a lot of friends he's

lost. I'm not sure Canada was ever his

friend. Some people are beyond hope,

which is part of the book, that you are

not into forced to to have friendships

that you don't want to. Um, but what

Mark Carney was doing, and as I was

listening to the speech this morning

before I hopped on here, I was thinking,

this man is parenting, right? He's doing

the same thing that we would do with any

of our kids and explaining in very clear

terms, we do not seek to dominate

others. Do not push someone on the

playground. It is like a very easy rule

to teach. But what he did do because

this is an arc, right? A journey that

Mark Carney has been on. And he did a

lot of the things that we talked about

her and I disagree. He started with the

soft start originally and he said like

we're pals. We have a lot. It's

important. 8 what is it? 800 billion in

trade. Second biggest partner. We want

to make this work. We share this border.

We share our values. Then he went to

let's talk in averages and not

anecdotes. Let's get to the brass tax.

So this isn't about my feelings. This is

a win-win for everybody. And then when

the toddler couldn't deal with reality,

he dropped the bomb and he said, "Here I

am. Let me into the EU and uh let's

figure out a bright future together." So

he didn't get an advanced copy of the

book, but I feel like he saw what is in

there. But is he cutting off cuz you

said you don't as you said you don't

have to remain friends with everyone or

is he leaving an opening like is this

like a

>> I don't think you can ever cut off the

US. I mean that's just not feasible and

you share

>> he can cut off Trump.

>> Yeah. Well he could also make a plan for

the next two years and change and then

pray that someone sane and that someone

sane doesn't necessarily have to be a

Democrat. I don't think if Marco Rubio

was in charge that he would be going

about it this way or even a JD Vance.

So, I think that he wants to send a

strong message. Obviously, he has tried

a lot of different ways to be able to

have this conversation to make it clear

it's worth your while and keep the

relationship. And uh now he's got to do

what's best for Canadians and what his

people are telling him that they want.

They're ready to take the pain in order

to have their sovereignty and their

dignity.

>> Yeah. Scott, what do you think? What

would you do if you were him? Besides

talk about Sydney Sweeny's boobs, but go

ahead.

>> The

>> Go ahead, Jo.

>> Oh, no. I was going to say Scott's

probably going to say he's also very

attractive, which she is. It's a

different look than Sydney Sweeney, but

>> actually Cara objectifies Carney all the

time, and I'm really uncomfortable with

it. She's constantly referencing his

looks. Anyways, it's very upsetting. Um,

so look, America being indignant here

and calling it an act of hostility is

like uh, you know, someone is in an

abusive relationship and then the

husband finds out, what do you know?

She's download hinge. I mean,

>> this just can't be that surprising. We

used to we used to be the head of the

cool table in the cafeteria and we

walked in and now it's just us at the

cool table. This is of course they're

looking for new partners. Of course they

are. They'd be they'd be irresponsible

mto.

>> Right now, I think a lot of people are

wanting to get along again, you know,

and maybe forgive people. I was just

noting to Scott Carl Robes that he's

going to vote Democrat. I'm sure he's

getting a lot of push back from uh

Republicans there, but the thing the guy

said was heinous, right? And then you

have Mike Johnson defending a guy who

called women cumbuckets. Like, and

you're like, what is happening here?

>> Yeah, I know. But we're the offensive

ones. I love that. I'm like, I'm really

prepared to be lectured by the party of

[ __ ] buckets about whatever it is that so

and so said that I'm sure I'm going to

see a clip of later. The overarching

message that's important for people to

keep in mind is that life is long and

people change and they evolve. And if

you are careful about when you talk and

when you listen, you can get somewhere

in most cases. Again, not forcing anyone

to do anything that they don't want to,

but we're also desperate to be

acknowledged and for people to say like,

I'm actually interested in what you've

got to say. And then by doing that,

you're also better prepared to respond

to it. But the cutting each other off

and yes, I get interrupted all the time,

which I I see as a sign of weakness, and

I write about that that if you're

getting interrupted, you're actually

winning. If they're criticizing you on

style, you're winning on substance. And

you can take internal gratification from

that and people who are watching this go

on know it as well. Um but the listening

it matters so much and that's across the

political spectrum that people are

really hungry for it. Scott

>> well just going what what Jess said

about go to data 870 billion is sold in

or is purchased in from Canada and we

don't treat them like our best customer.

They purchase $130 billion in EU goods.

So, there's literally $740 million or

3/4 of a trillion dollars in business up

for grabs. Uh, and I got to think that

if you're a Norwegian company that's

selling, you know, motorcycle parts or

ATV parts, you're now quickly on the

phone with every Canadian uh uh Canadian

manufacturer of ATVs, including

Bombardier, and say, "Hey, have you

considered doing business with us?" This

business is this business is up for

grabs. American companies have never had

a greater assault on their inventory and

their new business from the president

who has made them very vulnerable to

switching. So, so is it just a president

thing this dis you know the way he

disagrees which is win or it's always

win like he said we have if we win in AI

we win that's his new that's his new

saying he goes I coined it I'm like it's

really stupid but um but it's always a

sort of dominance thing and and which is

not good when you're trying to disagree

correct like a constant but disagreement

is now turned into dominance or dunking

and of course there's an online aspect

to it and the way you dunk some things

are super [ __ ] funny they just are um

there's a whole bunch of Mitch

McConnell's you know I I I thought he

was dead and it's worse kind of thing

you know we'll talk about him later but

um but how can we get back to

disagreeing in a better way because now

it's like a real it's sort of like

scorched earth at this point and you

know I think you do do a great job on on

the five although it's very

disconcerting that they just they don't

seem to listen at all like they never

there's no movement in their in their or

maybe they're just performative. I don't

know.

>> There have been signs of movement. I I

keep a list on my wall. I'm just

kidding. But I But you're also you're

doing it for the people that you're

talking to, but also who else might be

listening. And in this algorithmically

dominant universe, you know, your

audience can be any number of places. is

remember when mom Donnie came on with

Martha Macllum before the election and

he had points that he wanted to make to

distinct groups. He spoke directly into

the camera. Andrew Cuomo, you speak to

the voters, you speak to the president.

You know, understanding

who you're tailoring the message for and

making sure that it's getting to those

places is as important as the content of

what it is that you're saying. And I did

think on the AI front and Trump saying,

you know, you just need the most

intelligent president in the world,

which you have here. I thought it was

interesting that Carney included this AI

partnership in his offering to the EU.

It doesn't even really count as that cuz

the EU has said we want you for whatever

this special relationship is going to

be. and and that felt like a real shot

across our bow as well since we're

having this debate about, you know, do

you regulate, do you not, and if they're

going to shift towards the EU model or

what kind of progress they might create

together without us.

>> But when you But what's the fault? Is it

is it Trump or is it that we that that

the online has turned us into sort of

these dunk men?

>> Well, Trump is the problem. I mean,

Trump is a fundamental problem. Uh but

he's only exposed things that was that

were already in people right there. It

was just waiting to be pulled out of

them. And from working in conservative

media, and we've talked about this

before, I was not aware of how deep

grievance culture from the Obama years

was. And not just in the racist way. It

it's not that um you know, the economic

issues, cultural issues. And you've seen

that huge pendulum swing back where

we've gotten so much more fiscally

liberal and culturally conservative on a

comparative basis to where I thought we

were. Um, so Trump is a symptom of it

obviously and he's a vehicle for a lot

of this. Um, and has has reframed the

way that we do politics. Um, but it

doesn't mean it can't be mastered by

other people and

>> mastered in a good way, not in this bad

way.

>> In a good way. Yeah. To understand how

you wield it. I mean, we have examples

of people who use the internet and their

followings and communities uh for good.

Even if you don't love their politics,

you look at an AOC for instance, and you

think, okay, like I I understand where

this could go in a positive direction,

but I don't think people are going to

there will be no one who disagrees like

Trump. Again, it is a a case study of

one

>> of of who dis and doesn't want to listen

essentially. Is there any way I can't

advise him? Oh, you just think he's

broken. It doesn't matter.

>> I mean, he seems pretty broken to me.

Well, what I He's definitely getting

advised the right things. It's not as if

Republicans on the ground don't know

what's going on. They're pleading for

money. They're pleading for the right

kind of support, saying they're

stripping him off their websites. I

mean, MAGA Inc., The big pack can't even

send out money under the name MAGA Inc.

They have to put it out in other

vehicles because the brand is so toxic.

You have Carl Rove, like you said,

voting for a Democrat. Like things have

changed. So if you're JD Vance, who

probably can or Maru Marco Rubio, what

do you do if you are the candidate? Do

you you start to bring everyone together

again? You don't keep this up because

neither of them are capable of keeping

up the anger. I don't think they're I

don't think they're actually like that,

you know. I don't think they're

comfortable as Trump is in that space.

>> I think Vance would be fine with it if

he could pull it off. I don't think he's

built like that. He's uh too I don't

want to just say weak, but you know,

he's so malleable, fungeible as a human,

you know, so I I don't think he has the

backbone for it. And I don't think Marco

Rubio has the interest. I I think he

will convert back to something looking

more like the 2016 version with some

America first updates. Um, but I think

that they will know, especially if a

strong message is sent in the midterms,

that the party, the Republican party

cannot survive 2028, even with the

redistricting and the census, um, if

they try America First 2.0.

>> Anger, just not agreeing.

>> Well, anger and no and no deliverables.

That's what people they said in 2024, I

actually don't care that this guy is

terrible. Just give me money in my

pocket. And now that there's no money in

your pocket, they're certainly not going

to accept this kind of leadership.

>> Right. Scott, last question.

>> Well, for for the first time in probably

20 years, I watched a full Fox program

because I wanted to watch the five. And

what I found is that the clips are more

antagonistic than the general vibe.

>> That's right. And

>> what what I would say is I think they

just I I think they're less rude than a

lot of the clips would indicate to you

and and I want you to comment on it, but

one, you bring data. Two, I get the

sense the audience wants to hear what

you have to say. And three, I generally

get the sense that your four colleagues

really like you and respect you enough

that they don't want to, you know, show

you, you know, a certain level of

disrespect. Not my question. Talk about

bringing this to your personal life.

like when you examine this topic, how

has it changed the way you quote unquote

argue or resolve disputes with with your

your husband or your family?

>> And any advice for Scott and I,

[laughter]

>> since he's going to be fine.

>> Roger Federer should lean into his

acting. Those are his real assets. Cara

>> Christ. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

>> He's an anti-woke

virtue signal.

>> So red pill. So red pill.

>> It's so true. Go ahead.

>> Right.

>> Yeah. Um, this is so fun being at the

grown-up house.

>> Jess, she doesn't touch me anymore.

>> Oh my god. Answer is lovely question.

>> How has it affected how I talk or

disagree in my regular life? Um, I think

that I am more zen and calm generally

from having this experience. So, the

usual reaction is like what what pills

do you take? Like what is your

meditation routine? And I actually feel

genuinely at peace in that conflict. I I

don't know what I have done to make my

inside so steely to it. Um but I am

clocking

aspects of the interactions as these

winds as we go along. And I think that

that has really helped me in talking to

regular like the mom, group chat,

dealing with my husband, my mom, sister,

everyone around you.

>> I don't think Jess, I don't think you

and I have ever had an argument.

>> That's You save it for me.

>> Yeah, you will.

>> Seriously, I don't I don't know what

that sounds.

>> Thank god I'm here. Thank God.

>> Thank God. That's what everybody says.

>> Cara, they do. Yeah.

>> Yes. Thank God. Um for a whole host of

reasons. Um, but no, I don't think that

we I don't even know what we would argue

about. But I choose not to get upset

that you like ignore all of my text

messages basically.

>> There we go. It's the beginning. It's

the beginning of the anger.

>> Oh, is that how it started with you? You

were like, can't you just like my

message?

>> Texted angry. No, I text him in the

middle of the night. Anyway, let me

something kooky. Um, anyhow, I can't

help myself. Anyway, Jess, this is a

really great book. Um, she hosts

obviously Raging Moderates. She's on the

five top show in cable I think. Um and

and raging moderates is our own Scott

Galloway. Um and her book I disagree is

out now. I hope you get to the number

one on the Times bestseller. Um I think

it's the kind of book we all need right

now. I really do.

>> Thank you for joining us.

>> Well, thank you and thank you for having

me and welcoming the side piece and I

Scott's the side piece. I don't know

whatever this is.

>> Side piece of you. He has nice boobs.

Anyway, thanks for joining us. Thanks.

Bye guys. Thank you so much. I hope

everyone loves the book.

>> Great. Thanks. Well, that was nice. Your

your your your other girlfriend

visiting. That was

>> She is universally love.

>> She is. She's good at what she does.

Moving on. Um interesting story broke

about a movie I have seen. Universal,

which has worldwide distribution rights

outside North America to Alice Gibney's

new Elon Musk documentary is reportedly

getting cold feet about releasing the

film internationally. the studio paid a

multi-million dollar sum for the

international rights back in 2023. If it

walks away now, it could be required to

pay off the filmmakers and then they can

go and sell it. Um they're, you know,

it's not clear what they're going to do.

I I know people uh close to it and they

they just haven't said anything and so

they're not able to get the I mean

there's a lot of international interest

in this film. Um people really dislike

Elon in Europe particularly for example.

Um but and and people want to see it uh

there. And so it's interesting another

yet another company could be sort of

bending the knee at this late date and

worried about it. Uh Elon's called the

documentary a hit piece and boring. It's

not boring though there's no indication

he's actually seen it. It is absolutely

not boring. Um I just uh I know a little

bit about it. Um there's a there's they

they have to pay Universal a negative

pickup fee on delivery and um they've

just been silent. Universal has been

silent with and and with the group that

owns the documentary and um you know

probably if they walk away there's other

distributors a lot of them in the story

that was written a lot of distributors

are really interested in it um uh but it

it's it's just interesting the silence

and not doing anything cuz all these now

Comcast is facing an issue the owner of

Universal is facing an issue with again

the [ __ ] Brendan Carr around DEI stuff

um and they're all sort continuing to be

kind of just just still nervous about

the Trump administration, what it can

do. I think the time is limited for them

and they continue to do it, which is,

you know, I'm I'm not loving that

they're doing this. What do you think?

And I really like Donna Langley who runs

it. I like Brian Roberts, but it's still

possibly disappointing depending on what

happens.

>> Well, it's the issue isn't isn't whether

the Musk documentary is accurate, not

accurate, if it's good or bad. The issue

is when a media company

discovers that distributing journalism

about a powerful person carries

commercial and political risk. And

that's the fear here is that this all

creates a chill around journalism and

speaking truth to power and power

corrupts and absolute power corrupts and

the media has always been exceptionally

good. I mean, you feel this and I feel

this and when you get to a certain

footprint, people start quite frankly

looking for reasons to [ __ ] post you and

quite and some of it is healthy. You

know, power should be checked along the

way. There should be friction. And the

studio finds it in itself or it finds

itself in a place now where it's

basically got like a, you know, there's

nothing it can do. It's a hot potato

that will burn no matter what they do.

If they if they drop it, it burns.

They're they're in an they're in an

unwininnable position. If they try to

distance themselves from it, they

probably lose money and they look weak

and everyone everyone in the industry

will start, you know, just being

outraged, right? And if they do give in,

if they do bend, if they do bend a knee,

then they just absolutely or if they

move forward with it, they go crosshair.

There is real temptation right now to

the following strategy. keep a low

profile, say the [ __ ] out of his way

>> until he's gone.

>> He's 24. Yeah, there's 24 months.

>> He may be he may be very hindered after

the elections, but go ahead.

>> The original scripted series around big

tech I was working on got shut down. And

I don't think it was I don't think it

was politically motivated, but we had so

many talented people involved, the

production house immediately was like,

"Oh, this will be We had multiple biders

when we first pitched it." Now crickets.

People are like, "You know what, boss?

It might be amazing. Let's talk about it

again right now. Just not worth the

headache.

>> Yeah, it's a chill. It is. It's

definitely a chill. It's It's

interesting because there are a lot of

very anti- tech movies about to come

out. Like there's this I I was

interviewing Aaron Sorcin last night at

a private event of ex-f Facebook people

in Mountain View right near Meta

actually. Um about of the social

reckoning. Um, there's, you know, Musk

documentary, there's artificial, there's

like a lot of, you know, and on

television like the Audacity, there's a

lot of, you know, tech is villains out

there. It's not like it's not out there.

Um, but I think it's I think in this

case it's a non-fiction and it's a very

highly latigious person. Um, I don't

know. I just I would just say, "Oh, [ __ ]

it. We made it. We paid." I think at the

time they got it, he wasn't so mus he

wasn't so Trumpy, right? This this has

gone on this movie for many years.

>> Well, that's the thing. It's not being

anti- tech that's dangerous. It's being

anti-Trump. And Musk is considered very

closely affiliated with Musk with Trump.

>> Yeah. And of course, again, Brendan Carr

is like again making noise about, you

know, he's even going after possibly

going after um the Roku deal. Um cuz

this guy is this guy is really quite

like a ridiculous.

>> He's going after the Roku deal.

>> Yeah. No, they're looking at it. They're

looking at like there or the Justice

Department might and I'm not sure he

can, but there's all because there's a

device and the FCC might. It's like he's

I think they're probably mad at at

Murdoch's being much tougher on Trump

recently. Um, you know, it's sort of

messages. I I do think there'll be a

growing resistance to Trump. You sort of

are starting to see little bits and

pieces of the push back. Um, but we're

going to take a quick break. When we

come back, Mark Zuckerberg steps into

the great AI safety debate.

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Scott, we're back. All of a sudden, this

is the only story. AI killing us

essentially. Um, Mark Zuckerberg has

entered the chat. In a post on X,

Zuckerberg has said AI labs should

prioritize safely, but push back on

calls for industry slowdown. Of course,

he did. He's arguing that competition

and legal liability are to give

companies sufficient reason to build

their models responsibly, which is

[ __ ] because suing on these things

is long and hard and they have a lot of

money. It's up to each AI company to

make sure the technology is safe, he

said. But I think that's correct. But

essentially he wants them to grade their

own homework. To back up his argument,

Zuckerberg said meta a delayed release

of its muse AI agent for several months

to ensure safety and security. We'll see

about that. Mark, um I I I think you

know it's so the difficulty of this

debate is everyone's got kind of a

different take whether it's Jensen Wong

or Elon or Alman or Emodi and they're

all talking and David Sachs they're all

talking at once and it's very confusing

and I don't trust any of them. Like it's

really an an odd position to be in. What

do you think about what Zuckerberg was

saying that they can you we can get them

through liability or or just their good

nature of not wanting to kill people?

>> Uh yeah. And and and Stalin's like, can

we just all get along? It just

this is this is the fox you find in your

hen house and then he says to the

farmer, I got this. Don't worry, you can

leave. I got this. there.

60% of Americans say they aren't

confident US companies will develop and

use AI responsibly. And 67% have little

or no confidence government can regulate

it effectively.

And and to Zuckerberg's credit, he is

partially right. Meta delayed muse and

open AI is publicly reporting incidents.

>> Yeah. I'm going to you want me to note

what they are? Six incidents of what are

called concerning. I love when people

use the word concerning. The company

says its AI systems hid mistakes, made

up data, move files into the open

internet without permission. Also, the

dialogue is creepy. Essentially, it

wants to kill all of us. Um, open now

has developed new framework for

reporting this behavior and employee can

request that an incident be investigate

disclosed publicly. Um, this is policing

themselves, but I'm like, they're like,

look, we told you what happened. I'm

like, I don't like what happened, but

but but go but go ahead. Well, I'll just

remind people, you've never had an

industry this this large that's been

allowed to police itself. Now, either

we've been wrong all along, and we

should just let them do whatever they

want,

>> cars, all those people. Yeah,

>> but we're in uncharted territory because

we've never had companies with this much

power and this much capital. Meta alone

is going to spend $150 million of capex

this year. So, that's that's not a

company. It's the Manhattan project with

quarterly earnings.

>> Very good. Well said, Scott. There's a

scene in Oppenheimer where they say,

"Well, what if this starts keeps

igniting and it doesn't stop?" And he

said, "Well, we we're confident that

we've done the modeling that it's going

that it is going to stop." Like, I don't

The anxiety is the following. Not that

these companies not that these companies

are evil, not 1% 10%. The anxiety is

not knowing what's going on. And

what do we know works for kids? Every

parenting book seems to contradict the

one before it, but the one consistent

thing is that kids that kids need guard

rails. And this is effectively where we

are. The CDC, the Center for Disease

Control, who's supposed to prevent an

outbreak of measles, much less an

existential health threat.

What if what would they say to MOA? If

Mona, if a scientist in MOA came out and

said, you know what, the the COVID

vaccine, I think there's a 1 in 10

chance that the COVID vaccine turns

turns offensive and turns into a

pathogen that becomes infectious and

kills 10% of the world's population.

That's effectively what this guy said.

And then when asked about it, the CEO of

Madna said the following. Well, you know

what? He might have a point.

He might have a point.

What would we do?

>> Who knows?

>> Would the CDC and then would the CDC and

the president say to the CEO of Mona,

"Shut the [ __ ] up. Keep producing those

vaccines. Get your stock up."

>> Yeah,

>> that's what he's saying right now.

>> Trump is really doubling [ __ ] down.

He has to double down. Right. I mean, as

you noted, he's bet his whole enchilada

on the tech and the AI boom.

>> So, you're you're you're in a

neighborhood and there's a household

where you think, "Oh god, there's chaos

over there. I don't know." And then you

find out the parents are giving the kids

mess and going say wreak more havoc. The

insecurity around a lack of adult

supervision around not knowing what is

actually going on whether whether

they're they're slowing down these

things cuz they're earnest about it and

trying to be good citizens or they're

saying tap the brakes so all the open AI

mod oh the all the open weight models

have to slam the brakes. They're raising

awareness. Mus wants everyone to slow

down so he can get Nobody knows what the

[ __ ] is going on. Here's what I do know.

I don't trust any of them. Not a one of

them.

>> Yeah, there you go.

>> Not a one of them.

>> That's That's the no.

>> I was like, each of you have a point,

but I think you're all lying. I

literally sat there. I was I I looked at

all their different interviews they did.

They were at Dreamforce and they all

Wang did. Um Wang's sort of over on the

Trump side. Um Mark is wandering

somewhere in the middle. Musk,

[clears throat] of course, he's behind

um trying doing this shocking agreement

with Altman and Modi. all of them like

two things I would make two three things

I want to make actually one is that they

keep saying AI could be dangerous

they're dangerous it's people that are

dangerous like guns don't kill people

people kill people like that kind of

thing um the second thing is their shock

and shock about what's happening is such

a lie because I have been at dinner

parties 10 years ago where they were

talking about the dangers now these were

speculation of where it was going

because now they have some proof but

they absolutely And it reminds me of,

you know, well, we split an atom and it

it caused boom. Like we thought it would

go.

>> It caused boom. And it's like we thought

it would, you know, from a theoretical

point of in fact it did. Like they knew

this. I was at I couldn't tell you how

many dinner parties where they discussed

this very outcome and they knew it.

Right. The one thing they did at the

time was we don't know where it's going

to go. like they did they were at the

time not so certain about everything

like we don't even understand it was

often said to me by a lot of these same

people. The last part is it doesn't

really matter cuz they have financial

interest. How can you say anthropic this

is a real risk to humanity by the way

buy my stock like which something must

pointed out

>> they haven't slowed down their slow down

JP Morgan Gold. So it's all like all I

know is they're not the ones to do this.

we are we it has to be elected officials

and even Barack Obama who I think has

been a suckup to tech for a long time

was was that he was like why are we

letting these people make the decisions

like this is absolutely should not we

should talk to them we should work with

them but the fact of the matter is going

to be a white house thing once again is

there any critic going to that meeting

no it's all the heads nobody and there's

one person who's affecting there was a

good story in the journal today um a lot

of people like Scott Bessant and um and

Susie Wilds and others are trying to get

Trump in a much more let's regulate a

little bit here position because that's

both politically correct and the right

thing to do and David Sachs or the

individual CEOs keep calling him and

he's and they shift him. They can just

call him and do it. So I don't see an

end to this until Congress changes

whatsoever. I don't know. What do you

think? Where we are now is 1946 and

Oenheimer finds Carnegie or whoever was

the richest person at the time and says,

"Give me a hundred million bucks and I'm

going to convince MAG and General Motors

that uh we're going to build bombs at

scale." And you will not believe the

margin and the price I'm gonna get for

these things when I How much would

Pakistan pay for a bomb?

>> It's crazy. And then they and not only

that they can't buy just one cuz if

India buys two they need three and

>> we would have been dead we'd have been

dead by now

>> and well that's the fear and I think if

Truman or Roosevelt were president right

now I'm not sure we wouldn't have

nationalized AI

>> that's what a lot of tech people have

told me yeah absolutely I said that the

other day

>> realistically that's not going to happen

but there is a sweet spot of regulation

there is why if you think about the

greatest threat Uh if the CDC is

supposed to be doing its job and

controlling disease, the center for

disease control, the greatest threat to

the control of disease

>> is a supervirus developed in one of

these frontier labs

>> and RFK.

>> Why does this

>> how does the CDC not have people

embedded who are allowed to go into any

room at any time and ask any question?

>> No. 100%. I agree. Well, let's talk

about what could happen. So the AA

debate is it's creating strange

bedfellows. the sort of anti- these

people, Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon

delivered back-to-back speeches at the

bipartisan summit in DC this week, the

prohuman assembly. The list of people

that were there that really don't like

each other was astonishing when I saw

it. Both men called for regulation on AI

and denounced billionaires at the helm.

Sanders warned virtually all the

decisions regarding the development of

AI have been made by a handful of the

richest people in the world, which we

point out all the time. Bannon took a

similar stance, arguing the power

shouldn't be in the hands of these CEOs.

Let's listen all things to Steve Bannon.

>> This is a hinge in history. We have to

handle this right correctly. To handle

it correctly,

number one, we can never trust what

oligarch says because all they do,

they're disingenuous and they lie. This

has to be the American people. You

cannot be a supplicant and we're not

going to be supplicants anymore. The

American people are going to drive this.

>> So, did you ever think you'd be agreeing

with Steve Bannon? This is something we

say all the time.

>> All you know is if Steve Bannon and

Bernie Sanders show up at a cocktail

party, you're dying to know who's

hosting that cocktail party, right?

That's that's there's something

something interesting going on there. I

generally think it's a bad sign when the

far left and the far right disagree.

They disagree on isolationism,

anti-semitism,

>> when they agree, not disagree.

>> When I'm sorry, when they agree, then

you got to watch out. But this is

they're both look they're at the end of

the day they're both populists and 71%

of Americans think AI means jobs

>> and it's a rare bipartisan issue. Both

sides of the aisle

um you know both sides of the aisle

agree or are concerned about this and

the real question isn't whether GPT9 is

smarter than a lawyer. The question is

who captures the upside and who gets the

pink slip. What's interesting so far is

that the articles I've read from the

economists and others is that AI so far

has been a net job adder

and but the the people here do such a

bad job of talking about there is real I

sat next to the guy who runs UCSF the

other night for dinner and he was

talking about how AI can be used to

reduce sepsis how we think it's going to

there really is Hinton quote the

godfather of AI he kind of summarized it

perfectly but it didn't any of us really

feel better. He's like, you can imagine

a future where AI is makes the world a

much better place and you can also

imagine a future where AI makes it a

worse place. And the fulcrum in the

room, the traffic signal here should be

thoughtful regulation and we don't have

that right now.

>> Yeah, it's interesting to see what'll

happen because the tech people and Trump

think they can muscle this past all of

the country and it's really interesting

to see. I don't think they can. I think

that when you talk to people, they are

they are pissed. They're pissed and

they're scared and they don't and they

don't trust these people. The the the

real time. By the way, Hinton's in the

must documentary. He's excellent in it.

Um uh the real time political they they

just don't see we, as I said, we hate

them. Like we hate them and what they're

doing and we don't think they should be

in charge. All right, Scott, let's go on

a quick break. We come back, we'll talk

about your favorite topic, Cash Patel's

bizarre hearing on the Hill this week.

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Scott, we're back and I regret to inform

you. We have to talk about bestiality.

Let's listen to a clip of John Kennedy.

I've met him in person. He's hysterical.

Asking FBI Director Cash Patel about a

new policy that does not immediately

disqualify applicants who have engaged

in bestiality.

>> Why would you even get into bestiality?

We we are not into beastiality, but a

lot of these individuals

>> I know you're not, but you changed you

you you changed

>> but I'm trying to explain it. Hang on.

>> You changed the qualifications and

mentioned beastiality.

If if Joe if Joe participated in

beastiality,

>> not as the animal, but as the human,

>> don't you think he ought to be

qualified, disqualified?

>> If he voluntarily did it, sure. But if

he was trafficked into it,

>> how do you involuntarily do it?

>> Oh man, Scott, this was this there were

two moments on Capitol Hill this week.

This and then Mitch McConnell being

abused, you know, voting yes and no.

Like seriously, I mean, I was like, what

are the Republicans doing to themselves

like doing this? It was so strange. Um,

what is going on? And there's so many

good memes, so many good memes about

Cash Patel screwed the pooch. Uh uh

Christy Gnome's dog breathe a sigh of

relief at this. At least you didn't get

[ __ ] You just got shot. Um thoughts

like I can't. It's so [ __ ] up. The

both things. The both things really.

>> Well, look, this this sort of hits close

to home because I had a problem. Uh I

have struggled with addiction to

beiality with wolves,

but I'm getting better. Cara, I'm down

to a pack a day.

You [laughter] just said that's a good

one.

>> This is how

>> that is a really good joke.

>> This is how [ __ ] this is just how

[ __ ] I don't care. Take the stupidest

administration.

We couldn't have imagined anything

dialogue issue this stupid this has who

gives a [ __ ] a beastiality who can be

hard that means nothing here. What's

what's significant here is that one

how far how far we have fallen that the

director of FBI

legitimately has to defend this kind of

stupid policy change and what you

referenced before that a Republican

senator is starting to sense weakness

and isn't afraid to go after Trump's

appointees. You're starting to see the

worm turn, but this is just

embarrassing. This is our allies with

their with their, you know, their hands

their their head in their hands.

And

>> the senators were trying to save him,

those Republicans. And and then they

were like, "Okay, I've had enough of

this."

>> I was the other day I was trying to

figure out how many I was trying to

count how many sheep I had [ __ ] but I

fell asleep.

[laughter]

You just saved those up all week, didn't

[gasps] you?

>> I have been so excited about [laughter]

this podcast.

>> There's so many good cash. There's so

many good like

>> I'm almost as excited about this podcast

as the dramatic reading of all Ingmar

Bergman roles by Emily Ratikowski cuz

she clearly should lean into her acting

capabilities.

>> Oh, stop it. Listen,

>> you'd be the worst agent. Mitch

McConnell, you get 5 seconds on that.

That was like I don't I literally want

to go get him and save him. I don't even

like him. But I'm like, what are you

doing to this old man? Like, you're

moving him around. And

>> aren't Doesn't he have grandkids?

Doesn't he have someone to go like, "I'm

here to save grandpa. I'm here to give

pop some dignity."

>> This is like crazy what's happening up

here. I mean, it couldn't get more

embarrassing. They look like

>> What are you doing? Let me give you I

ran into John Kennedy on the on a plane

once and he he he must listen to Pivot

because he goes, "You two are funny." He

said he he looks like Fogghorn Legghorn

and he sounds like him. And I go, "Well,

thanks so much. You should come on the

podcast." He goes, "I will." And then I

was sitting in first class. He was in

coach. And he kept using the first class

bathroom. And he kept coming up like 10

times. There must have been a prostate

issue. And every time he came by, he

patted me like like physically patted

like, "Oh, you're fun." Did he say

you're funny?

>> Did he say hi? Did he say hi, little

boy? [laughter]

>> No. But he patted me that the steartist

came over uh and said, "Are you okay?

Did that bother you?" I'm like, "No,

it's John Kennedy." And he said, "Bogorn

Legghorn, I don't care. He's a smart

guy." But that was just something. Also,

I would I would urge people to watch the

surgeon general's questioning by um the

other Republican Senator Cassidy was

quite good. I would like him except that

he's voted for some terrible things. I

do I think he's charming in a lot of

ways. Anyway, this was something to

watch. which I couldn't and he couldn't

even and then after he did interviews

he's like I kept trying to say why do

you keep doing this and he wouldn't like

buy I wouldn't he wouldn't get out of it

anyway one more quick break and we'll be

back for predictions I've got a text

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Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

Can I do a very short one?

>> Of course.

>> I do think this Paramount leaving

California thing. I think they're going

to settle. I do. They have to settle. I

don't know what they're doing here by

being like so saber rattling. But behind

the scenes, I am absolutely certain

they're chitchatting away with Rob Bont

and the grand cuz they they haven't been

able to to peel off. They told me they

were going to peel off AGs. They didn't

do that. None of these op-ed ads have

worked. The money is getting really ugly

right now, including Larry Ellison's own

fortune. Um they don't have a choice.

And if they go, they'll probably go to

Nashville, I guess. But it didn't really

work when Disney tried to move a lot of

stuff to Florida. It's very expensive

and lots of people don't want to move.

They need to settle this like yesterday.

And um and if they go somewhere, I'm

assuming I've heard that Ellison, David

Ellison's looking for houses in

Nashville. But um but I I'd assume

that's where they're going. But uh we'll

see. We'll see because there's a lot of

entertainment there, I guess. I don't

know. Uh but I I can't imagine they're

going to do this. It's so it's so stupid

on top of other stupid things. And all

signs point to shitty, including the 60

Minutes decline, everything else. They

really need to get this in their

rearview mirror. Anyway, your thoughts

or your prediction?

>> Uh, well, first of all, I think you're

absolutely right. It's this isn't moving

customer service down to Orlando. These

are really talented, unique people who

live in LA for a reason. And right now,

essentially, Hollywood has already left

LA because the majority of the

production now takes place outside of

it. It's a hollow weird threat. Okay.

Also, the other thing is YouTube and

Netflix are doubling down and they will

buy everything up and then they'll laugh

in your [ __ ] face.

>> We'll take we'll take the best

production and creative executives. That

would be a gift to them.

>> They are. You both of them, YouTube and

Netflix will take everything. They're so

dumb and childish.

>> That's a hollow threat. So, uh, a couple

things. Uh, one, you're going to see a

country or a trading block ban

[clears throat] frontier models.

>> There's so much animosity.

all the moons are lining up. If if

you've had it with America, you're

looking to press on their soft tissue

and there's all this insecurity that oh

wait, 10% chance we might have an

extinction event. I know just for the

time being, dear America, as you have

levied all these ridiculous, sclerotic,

inconsistent tariffs on us, we're going

to take a break and we're going to put a

pause

>> on frontier models out of the US and

we're going to make it illegal and stop.

And if one of them really wants to go

gangster, they're going to do it for

against several tech companies.

>> Which is it? Europe, presumably or who?

>> I don't know where it could come from.

It might come from the Philippines. It

might come from It might come from

Finland. That guy's pretty

>> pretty, you know,

>> put in the leftist group too.

>> But one one or the block, the block is

the joint. You might come together and

say, you know what, just as Kathy Hogle

put in a moratorum on data centers,

we're going to put a moratorium on

frontier models out of the US.

and and you have never seen trillion

dollar plus companies this this fragile.

The these companies could lose and then

and then Bill Gates and Sach and Adella

and uh Sundar are going to call these

guys and go and Trump, what the actual

[ __ ] We're now being banned because

everybody thinks an 8-year-old is

running these things and you're talking

about extinction events. Anyways, that's

coming down the pike. we're going to see

a nation state or a block ban American

frontier models if we can coordinate

with the British and the Russians to put

push back on fascism. We're going to

find out that people can actually

coordinate to push back on economic

warfare.

So that that to me would be the smartest

thing they could do right now because

the reality is AI is being used by some

other companies but it hasn't really

picked up the same level of consumer

adoption that media would have you

believe in many of these countries.

>> I would agree. My real prediction here

is that [sighs and gasps]

and I'm back ining into a theory here

but uh it's pretty easy

times man of the era is already decided

it's Mark Carney and I have been paring

something you said that I was really

powerful that that was a Crow Magnum man

bested the Neanderls because of

>> cooperation to be fair I was I was I'm

listening to his book again but go ahead

yeah

>> so I was inspired by it and I I read

some of Robin Dumbar who's this famous

anthropologist

and he estimated that humans can

maintain roughly 150 meaningful social

relationships

but the whole point of modern society is

we can coordinate tens sometimes

hundreds of millions of strangers with

money laws uh treaties corporations

markets religions nations and

essentially that circle grows uh

exponentially.

If you think about a city, every time a

city's population doubles, the economic

prosperity of its citizen goes up,

citizens goes up 15%. Because it starts

to leverage cooperation. And what most

people don't appreciate is that one

pencil requires a civilization.

If you think about Reed's famous eye

pencil observation, no one no one person

knows how to make an ordinary pencil

from scratch. You need cedar, you need

graphite, you need metal,

>> you have to be in mining, shipping,

rubber, finance, retail. So a 20 cent

object requires the cooperation of

thousands of strangers coordinating

without knowing one another. Your your

breakfast is a multinational joint

venture. Coffee from Colombia, the

machine from Italy, wheat from the

Midwest, fertilizer from Qatar. I'm

relisting and I recommend everyone do it

to I read it but now I'm listening to

it. Uvel Harrari's Sapiens and I'm a

huge fan of his and for a while tech

loved that book. A lot of them are like

have you read Sapiens? Did you know all

this? I'm like I did. I went to college

and I paid attention and you didn't. But

one of the things that's critical in

this is how the Neanderl beat. There

were lots of other uh uh hominids,

right? And they were all over. There

were like 12 or 15 of them. They all

were put put out of business by sapiens

and they we were smaller. We were we

were much smaller than all almost all of

them and had had very you know in terms

of physical and stuff like that. But the

one thing that he talked about and this

the section I'm in right now is called

cooperation networks and and these are

structures of interconnected individuals

organizations and that can coordinate

resources and build collective value and

um and it's it was critically it is the

thing that allowed us to dominate was

the we were good at doing war too but we

were really good at cooperation networks

among and between tribes and everything

else and the others were not at all like

in that regard

>> and that This is the killer app. And one

of a piece of advice when young people

say I'm basically I'm e what advice

would you have for young people? I'm

like geography has a lot to do with it.

If you're an economic animal, the first

thing is get to a city. Cities are

cooperation engines. And when cities get

larger, wages, patents, economic

activity goes up. It humans together in

the network of a city can become more

productive than the sum of its parts.

>> Restaurant, you know, everything. You

know, it's interesting. It's funny,

speaking of cooperation, Louisie was in

the salad department of the fancy

restaurant he's working in San

Francisco. He's just been moved to the

hotline, which and he's very nervous

because it requires enormous

cooperation, right? He's [snorts] like,

but he makes the salads by himself, but

he's like he's it's really it was we

were talking about this cooperation

network. He's like, I'm really nervous

about the hotline, Mom. And I was like,

it was so funny because I was like,

well, you have to you really it's like a

dance, right? And that's how we make

things. It's like it it makes you think

about a lot of ways we do that.

>> We touch more people and have benefit

from more relationships before 9:00 a.m.

than any medieval king had in his entire

lifetime. Modern prosperity is a team

sport uh disguised as individual

achievement. And this is what this

president does not

>> can't we all get along.

>> We must all get along. You think about

behind every billionaire, every big

company, employees, universities, roads,

courts, capital markets, customers,

suppliers, the electric grid, uh, DARPA,

the internet, and generations of

accumulated knowledge. There is no such

thing as self-made.

>> I love both of these. These are

excellent predictions, Scott.

>> There's no such thing. And the fact that

we are regressing

and deciding through our actions to to

devolve

and ruin relationships.

It is it is the most basic lesson when

you're advising a young person. Your

success is a function of the number of

deep and meaningful and positive

relationships you're going to develop. I

think we should all agree on Sydney

Sweeny's boobs and then go move on.

>> Well, I don't know if you've heard, but

she's just been cast in the new Terms of

Endearment and she's playing Shelley

Mlean. She's playing Shirley Mlan's role

because she listened to you and she

realized her assets is her acting

capability.

>> 20 years from now and Roger Federer is a

new James Bond,

>> whatever. Anyway, you didn't do that.

You're not being a cooperation network.

You're doing the very opposite President

Trump here. You're President Trump of

this podcast is what you are.

>> There we go. All right, we have to go

some. Excellent. This is These are two.

I think your other one is quite um

interesting. That would be a real blow

to these companies, too.

>> Um and they're not a cooperation

network. They're a cooperation for

themselves. Anyway, that was great.

Scott, both of those were brilliant.

Once again, once again, you shock and a

me. Um anyway, we want to hear from you.

Send us your questions about business

tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to

new yorkymag.com/pivot.

Send a question for the show or call

85551 pivot. Um, remember we're going on

tour, so get tickets. We do sell out and

especially in certain cities like San

Francisco and others. Toronto for sure.

Go to uh pivotour.com and get your

tickets as soon as you can. We're going

to have It's going to be a really good

show. It's going to be so much news and

information. We're going to have a good

time. We'll have great guests and we

love seeing you all. Um,

>> are you inviting former girlfriends

who've turned lesbian?

>> Yes, all of them. Do you have any more?

Oh, I'm going to have many surprises. I

think it's called I think my guess is

pretty much every ex 78 70 80%

likelihood here. You know what? That was

a highlight for me. Debbie Brewbaker, I

hope you're well.

>> I am going to surprise you once again

with many, many, many things throughout

the tour. I I'm planning it right now

and they're going to be they're going to

be good. That's good. We're also going

to have merch Scott and I have been

deciding on finally and it's really

good. It's really fun

>> stuff.

>> Um okay, that's the show. Thanks for

listening to Pivot and be sure to like

and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

We'll be back next week.

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