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Major Market Risk: Chamath Outlines Corporate Default Dangers in the Wake of Trump's Tariffs

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Major Market Risk: Chamath Outlines Corporate Default Dangers in the Wake of Trump's Tariffs

Transcript

110 segments

0:00

The thing that we haven't talked about

0:01

is with all of the

0:03

tariffs, with all of the

0:06

financing questions, with all of the

0:09

recession questions, short-term rates,

0:11

long-term rates, the one thing that we

0:13

haven't sufficiently talked about. It's

0:15

not really in the press, but it needs to

0:17

be talked about is there is a tremendous

0:19

amount of corporate debt that supports

0:21

these businesses today. And you would

0:24

say, well, if long-term rates go

0:28

down, there's no real risk. But the

0:31

tariff picture actually impacts

0:33

revenues, right? And the problem with

0:36

that is that there's a lot of companies

0:38

that have debt covenants tied to revenue

0:41

and ibida. And so this is what I spoke

0:44

about at the beginning of January, which

0:46

is the one risk that is

0:50

uncontrollable is what happens to

0:53

corporate debt and could we see a wave

0:56

of defaults and a wave of action. Nick,

0:59

you may want to just play the clip and

1:00

we can talk about what we can do about

1:02

this. This was my pick for the best

1:04

investment idea.

1:06

Go ahead. All right, here we go from

1:07

What do you got? So, let me preface this

1:09

by saying that this is a pick that 92

1:14

times out of 100 goes to absolute zero

1:17

and six out of the remaining eight times

1:21

you make 10x extra money and then the

1:23

final two times you make anywhere

1:25

between 100 to a,000 extra money. This

1:27

is a loser trade, but I would be long

1:32

CDS. So, what am I buying? I am buying

1:35

insurance. I'm buying insurance using

1:38

credit default swaps. I'm buying what's

1:40

called protection that there is no

1:42

default event in 2025. I would like a

1:47

little bit of an insurance policy in

1:49

2025 so that the men and the women that

1:52

we have voted in have the chance to do

1:54

their work in peace. I think that there

1:57

is a small chance of some volatility

2:00

next year. I hope it doesn't happen. I

2:02

hope that this trade loses money, but if

2:05

it hits, it will be the best performing

2:06

asset of 2025. And I just want to be

2:08

clear, this is not something I think

2:10

will happen. It's not something I want

2:11

to happen, but I do think that if you

2:13

look back in terms of just the tonnage

2:16

of dollars you can make and the massive

2:18

risk asymmetry that it presents to you.

2:20

When you look at the concentration of

2:21

the S&P, when you look at just the total

2:23

gross amount of debt that we have, when

2:25

you look at rate spiking, all of these

2:27

things say having a little insurance may

2:30

not be a bad thing. It has

2:32

hit. Nick, you can show the CDS

2:35

graph. So, this thing for every billion

2:38

dollars of risk you would have put on,

2:40

every billion dollars that you put on

2:42

would have cost you about a million

2:43

dollars. And that million dollars would

2:46

have made you about $7 million in about

2:48

3 months. Did you put it on? I'm not

2:50

going to comment on my my trades, Jason.

2:54

Oh, okay. But we tal we talked about it

2:56

off air already. But if you did put it

2:57

on, does that mean you're taking us all

2:59

to Italy this summer? No. What's

3:01

happening here? Are you getting a boat

3:02

for us to record from the all-in yacht?

3:04

No, but there may be some boats for sale

3:06

if this trade keeps going this way. Oh,

3:08

why is this important? The CDS actually

3:11

represents the structural risk in the

3:13

United States private economy, in the

3:15

corporate economy. And so, Nick, if you

3:17

just put it back on. So, when you see

3:18

these spreads blowing out, this is

3:20

actually a very important warning sign.

3:22

And this is actually a thing that I

3:24

think Scott understands well, Howard

3:26

understands well. I think they'll

3:28

translate this to the president. If I

3:32

have an opportunity to explain it, I

3:33

will. But this is a really important

3:35

market to pay attention to. This is what

3:37

was the canary in the coal mine for the

3:42

great financial crisis. This was the

3:44

stuff that showed us that there was a

3:46

big default event happening in the

3:48

mortgage side of the market. But then

3:50

that spilled over to the broader

3:52

economy. And so the tariff picture and

3:55

the recession picture will get played

3:57

out in this chart. And I think it's

3:59

something that folks can and should

4:01

probably pay tremendous attention to

4:03

because I think now that this trade is

4:05

in the money, the question is I don't

4:08

think we want this to happen. That one

4:10

sigma two sigma event where all of a

4:12

sudden this trade returns a,000x is

4:15

really

Interactive Summary

The video discusses the potential risks hidden within the significant amount of corporate debt in the current economy, particularly in relation to revenue impacts from tariffs and debt covenants. The speaker proposes an investment strategy using credit default swaps (CDS) as an 'insurance policy' against potential corporate defaults in 2025, highlighting its asymmetric risk profile as a 'canary in the coal mine' for broader economic instability.

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