You come to Uber, you're going to work

your ass off. And if you're not

performing, we're going to let you know.

>> But do you ever worry that they might

not be able to deal with the truth?

>> Then they can leave because the most

important skill in life is the skill of

working hard. And when you see the top

athletes, Ronaldo, Michael Jordan, of

course they're talented. But the thing

that's different about them is they work

their asses off. And that's a learned

skill. That's not something you're born

with. You may be smarter, more talented,

etc. But I'm not going to let anyone out

me. with that mentality. When you joined

Uber, it was losing 3 billion per year.

Now it generates 8.5 billion in free

cash flow every year. But it seems that

you were forged in such a way that you

were going to be relentless.

>> Yeah. And it really started with being

born in Iran with the Islamic Revolution

in 1978. We were not safe there. And I

remember at one point we had these

revolutionary guards come into the

backyard and bullets went through our

living room. So my family came to the US

to rebuild their lives.

>> You were 8 9 years old.

>> Yeah. And it really destroyed my dad.

Sorry me.

It's tough for me to talk about it.

It's okay.

All right, let me try again. Seeing that

has put me on a road where I just wanted

to make my family proud. So I studied

bioelect electrical engineering and then

my first job was investment banking and

I got to see the process of big

companies being built and then I had the

opportunity to take over Expedia

>> and in your 12 years as CEO Expedia

sales increased from 2.1 billion to 8.8

8 billion and you were the highest paid

CEO of a US tech company

>> and I left it all behind to get over

>> and I want to get into practical company

building how you would get that company

to work hard and create a culture of

continuous improvement and all that

stuff but there's alien that's arrived

amongst us which is AI now driving I

think is one of the biggest employees in

the world like as a profession

>> I mean we've got 9 and a half million

drivers and couriers on our platform

>> those drivers careers that you have will

be out of work being honest about the

situation what do the 9 million people

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yeah, let's do this.

Darren, you lead one of the most

consequential, interesting, talked about

companies of my generation. It's worth

hundreds of billions of dollars last

time I checked and it's a it's a company

that I use every single day.

>> Thank you.

>> I've looked through your story. You were

the CEO of Expedia.

>> Mhm. at one point.

>> You're currently the CEO of Uber and

you've turned that company from a a

lossmaking company to a highly

profitable company and one that has

continued to be successful through such

a great time of transition. I

your story starts in a very interesting

way

>> and I was you know when I start doing

the research for guests sometimes I I I

think I come in with some kind of

presumption that I grew up in

California, you went to Stanford etc.

>> But that is not the case. Can you take

me to that earliest context so I can

understand

how and why you are the way that you

are?

>> Uh quite the quite the starting

questions but but but I'll try. I I

think that for me the events that shaped

my life and maybe a part of who I am

really started with my being born in

Iran and Iran at the time was

modernizing becoming a modern society

and my family built a pretty big

industrial company that that everyone

was quite proud of in Iran. We lost all

of that with the revolution in 1978

and my family had to come to the US to

rebuild their lives.

>> You had to come to the US.

>> We were not safe there. One of my uncles

actually was um a cabinet member of the

Shaw who had just been toppled. And at

one point, we had uh uh these

revolutionary guards come into the

backyard. They were actually going after

our neighbor's house. Uh and one of

their guns went off and bullets went

through our living room. Uh shattered

the glass in the living room. And at

that point, my mom's like, "We're not

safe being here." So, we had to come to

the US. And I do think that event to

some extent has shaped not just me but

my family in that the rebuilding of our

lives um of our uh economic lives to

some extent where we're all trying to

rebuild what we lost in Iran. Do

>> you look back on that and and can you

identify any sort of fingerprints that

were left on you from that time that

have defined you in a business capacity?

I think at my core I never feel safe,

you know, when the the experience of

losing everything and and for the kids I

I tell you it was fine for the kids, but

seeing my parents lose everything and

and it really destroyed my dad. You

know, it really

his losing his value to the world as he

saw it um really hurt his inner being.

And I do think to some extent seeing

that has put me on a road where I want

to rebuild. I want to make my family

proud. But at the same time I never that

feeling of having the floor, you know,

the rug pulled out of you of building

everything. That's a feeling that never

leaves you. I think I think Americans

underestimate

what this place represents in its

ideals, right? which is if you build

something it's yours. There's a rule of

law can't be taken away from you. That

is not true for the majority of the

population of the world. And so I think

for me there's a drive to build and at

the same time never ever ever taking

anything for granted, never being

satisfied because the minute you take

things for granted then that rug can be

pulled out from under you. on your

father. There was a moment where he a

couple of years, I think six years,

where he got trapped in Iran and wasn't

granted an exit visa.

>> Yes.

>> And I imagine at that time your mother

was raising you alone here in New York

City.

>> Yeah. In Terry Town, New York, 45

minutes north of New York City, but she

she went from a life of never having to

work to she had to become a salesperson

to make some money and she did it all

herself and she really stepped up. So I

think it shaped us. It was difficult in

some ways. I I miss my dad. I remember

when he left, he was like a giant

compared to me. And then when he came

back, it was my sophomore year at

college and he still saw me as a kid.

And so he wanted to drive me to uh to

college and and he did. And then he's

like he wanted to hang out. I'm like,

"Dad, can you get out of here? I want to

hang out with my kids." I was with my

friends. I was excited to go back to

school. And it was just it it was sad

seeing the change, you know, of a man

who had gotten older. Uh his time in

Iran was really tough on him. He had a

heart attack on the plane coming back.

So he was a diminished person to some

extent. Um but

it was great that I had many many years

with him, you know, since then.

>> When he was away, when he was trapped

around and wasn't able to exit,

>> your mother Lily

>> Yes.

referenced how you didn't mention him

much, but when he returned, you broke

down in tears.

>> Leah, no, don't be.

He was a very stoic man.

It's okay.

Sorry. He

passed away a couple years ago, so it's

tough for me to talk about it.

It's okay.

All right, let me try again. He was a

very stoked man. Um, so he kept it all

inside

and we were taught to do the same thing.

Uh, but we wrote letters together and

they're beautiful letters. He wrote

poetry. So I communicated with him in

Iran. But there's

um expression of feelings and kind of uh

frustration uh

were not something that my family did.

you know, you just dealt with a

situation. And so, yeah, I I think I

suffer from uh over stoism and then

breaking down every once in a while, as

you just saw.

>> It's a a familiar story of the the men

that I've interviewed that grew up with

that kind of sort of emotional composure

enforced and um modeled to them.

>> Yeah. I don't know if it was enforced

like it wasn't actually. Yeah. like we

were very loving family but my father

was very humble. Um he did not believe

that just because you're in a position

of power you should kind of project that

power you should communicate that to

everyone and there was a stoicism inside

my family which is don't complain you

know um so they it was it was a weird

combination of stoicism and love at the

same time.

>> How does um cuz I'm not a father yet.

>> Yes.

>> But I I'm approaching that.

Congratulations. Almost.

>> Yeah. Almost. Yeah. I've just proposed

to my fiance and we're, you know, we're

in the process now of, you know,

bringing children into the world

hopefully. And it's one of the things I

think a lot about, which is how do I

stop my own stoicism,

passing on to my children.

>> First of all, fatherhood, parenthood is

is so humbling. You have such a picture

in your mind as to how you're going to

raise your family, what your kids are

going to be like. And they just become

their own people and it's such a

beautiful process to see. And at first

there's this alarm. Oh my god, I'm

losing control. You know, I've I've done

everything. You've planned everything.

This is how I'm going to raise kids. But

then real life gets in the way. It is

absolutely exhausting. So, you probably

execute on 80% of your plan and you're

20% imperfect because you are exhausted

and you're working and you got a career.

Uh, or often some people do. And at some

point, you see these kids kind of move

off into this completely unexpected

territory. And there's a point for me it

was like I I'm a bit of a control freak.

So, I'm like, this is not good. They're

kind of doing their own thing. But then

you you step back and you're like this

is it's absolutely gorgeous what's

happening. So the advice that I would

just give in terms of being a parent is

just spend the time with the kids. You

know it is that is the magic is not what

you do um or or the particular tactics

but it's the investment in them and the

time spent with them and the rest you

know you can't control but what you can

control is kind of that connection. H I

um speaking of children, I went back and

looked through lots of different photos

of where you lived and where you grew up

to try and get a picture of your world

in an early context and all these photos

look incredibly incredible. I think that

was your fifth birthday.

>> Oh wow. I had hair back then.

>> You had a lot of hair.

>> My mom loved to dress us up in like

little doll outfits.

>> I can tell another one you lord. Look at

that. I'm definitely not going to do

that to my kids. age four in London.

Another photo of you.

>> You and your cousins there. Another

photo.

>> Family was everywhere for us.

>> And again, another one with a a

beautiful haircut there.

>> It was a great childhood. It was

amazing.

>> I spoke to your mom,

Lily.

>> I hope uh well, how it go.

We'll see. She said, I'll play the audio

file just so people can hear it. when he

was very little, he told me that he

wants to do something important in the

world and he said becoming wealthy is

not his priority but making a change is

>> I can't say I remember that conversation

but the

one of my early experiences that really

imprinted on me was we went to visit one

of my dad's It's factories, family

factories. And my dad was in charge of

designing factories, building them,

operating them. And the respect

that that population, the factory had

for him and the visit and how excited

they were that his family was visiting

was just really cool. And and the way

that he treated he knew everyone's name.

He treated them with such respect. It

just it really imprinted on me. There

was this care. It wasn't the boss is

coming and there's fear. And so for me

like that ability to build a life where

you have impact on a lot of people but

it's it's positive kind of building

impact. You have the broad respect of of

these folks. It really imprinted on me.

So I w I always wanted you know when we

came to the states

making money was important. I don't want

to kind of BS and say like, oh, I didn't

care about it because we lost

everything. And so my first job was

like, invest in banking. What's the goal

of investment banking? Have fun, but

make money, right? And so that was a

priority for me. But then as I matured

in life, as I knew I had safety in terms

of, okay, yes, I know I can do that. I

can make money. I can provide for my

family. I can support my mom and dad.

Then

building kind of an enterprise, having

that feeling that I saw with my father,

that connection with his team uh was

something that became really important

to me.

>> When you came to New York, you were 8, 9

years old.

>> 9 years old. Yes.

>> If I'd asked you at 9 years old, when

you arrived to New York, what you wanted

to do when you're older, what would you

have said?

>> I have no idea. I want to make my dad

proud.

That was it. I wasn't kind of motivated

for specific target at all. I just

wanted to make my family proud.

>> Why I want to make my dad proud?

He's always been an important figure in

uh in my life, you know, that there's

this um and and I think part of it is

that I never got to know him that well

as an individual, you know, cuz he was

obviously when I was younger, he was

working all the time. So, he would show

up once in a while for dinner, etc. We

always had family dinners together and

then he went away and then I worked. So,

I never really got to know the person

that he was, but I don't know there

there's kind of this sense of duty.

There's there's a hope that,

you know, he's he's somewhere or maybe

he's not someplace. But that making my

father proud has always been a strong

current undercurrent in my life.

>> So, you're 9 years old, you've arrived

in New York City. Um, you do end up

going off to college sometime later.

>> Yes.

>> I went to Brown University, studied

engineering there. How do you think

about that choice at that time and how

determinant that was of your trajectory

in your life? That decision to go to

that university and study that subject.

>> My father always said, "You can do

anything in your life as long as either

you're a doctor or an engineer." And I

picked engineering. I just loved the

problemolving aspect of engineering and

all the layers of equations etc. and

those equations being able to represent

something in real life and then

magically that something in real life

following what it should theoretically

like the problem solving aspect of

engineering fascinated me. I absolutely

loved it. Uh and I think it serves me to

this day.

>> Engineers make good CEOs.

>> Great CEOs. If you step back,

companies are just machines, right?

They're they're machines that are run by

people and over a period of time you

actually try to automate some of the

stuff that the people do and then you

send the people off to do new stuff that

can't be automated like we are

rulesbased like it's it's an organism

and it's a machine at the same time and

to some extent the job of the the the

CEO is engineering how do I set up the

company to achieve the goals that you

know I set for shareholders set for my

board sets sets for it. It's a giant

engineering problem and and to me that's

like fascinating the putting together

the pieces to get to what you perceive

to be the goal and one of the really

important things is you got to pick the

right goals.

>> Mhm.

>> Um that is one giant problem solving

engineering challenge and it's one of

the most fascinating parts of my job.

>> I want to get into that the the

practical company building how you

organize um an organization to be a well

functioning machine setting goals and

all that stuff. Um after after college

you go into investment banking for a

period of time.

>> Yeah I worked there for eight years in

risk arbitrage to begin with and then

mergers and acquisition advisory work as

well.

>> And that experience I I was reading

taught you about betting on people.

>> Yes.

>> Versus other what do you mean by betting

on people and why is that important?

>> It was uh it was actually a lesson that

I learned from Herbert Allen who was

running Allen and Company at the time.

It it was the the uh the Allen's uh

family started the company. And he

always told me and and at the time I

didn't really listen to him. He he

always said, "Do

always bet on people. Companies go.

There are good companies, bad companies,

but great people stay great all the

time." And one of the things that made

Allan and Company was really special.

You know, investment banking can be a

doggy talk sport, but Allan and company

really cultivated relationships with

people whom they perceived to be great

both in terms of potential and in terms

of character. And of all the investment

banks, that loyalty, that making a bet

on a person and then staying with them

through their whole careers is a pattern

of how that place works. Uh, and it's

definitely something that that I learned

there.

>> What is it about one's character that

makes them qualify as a great person?

>> You look for success, honor, loyalty,

people who will tell you what they're

going to do, whether it's good or bad,

and then follow through on their

promises.

>> Hard work. I'm surprised that wasn't

mentioned as

>> well. That comes with success. Okay.

Right. Talent and hard work. You put it

those two together.

>> And why did you leave Allen in company?

>> I left Allen because I met Barry Diller.

Uh, he was a client of mine. We got to

meet in a big kind of

deal uh unfriendly uh hostile tender

offer for Paramount at the time. It's

that there's another one happening I

guess for Paramount uh now as we speak.

And he was the one person I thought I

was going to be Allen Lifer. I thought I

was going to be there forever. My older

brother Cave is an Allen Lifer. He has

it's the only job he's had in his life.

But Barry was the one person who I

thought, you know, if I get a chance to

work for this person, I'm I'm I'm going

to jump at it. And I did.

>> Why? Why Barry?

>> He He's spectacular. I mean, he was

spectacular. He is spectacular. A doer,

you know. He he I I met him in a

circumstance where he lost. It was it

was this giant hostile tender offer.

Bids going back and forth between uh the

the winner Viacom and and Barry.

Ultimately, Barry stepped away and we

were planning an announcement, you know,

and you can imagine all these like fancy

PR people

sitting around a table. How do we

present a loss as a win, right?

>> So, he bid for a company. He didn't get

it.

>> He didn't get it and and he walked away.

He didn't get it cuz he walked away,

which in hindsight was a was a mistake.

He could have paid more. Uh and then in

the release where he walked away, uh I

think the release was they won, we lost.

next. And he was a constant motion

machine like day one, we lost, next,

what's next? Let's go. And that's the

kind of person I wanted to work for.

>> In business, losing is part of the game.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. But then calling

it out, you know, not bullshitting, not

like, oh, we tried our best and the

circumstances. They won, we lost. Next,

it's okay.

>> Does it matter how you lose?

>> Absolutely it does. that absolutely it

does it it's and and I find companies

guilty of two things like one is

ignoring losses like papering over

losses etc right and then sometimes

being obsessive about the loss you know

inspecting it what happened let's do a

summary let's meet what went wrong etc

and and you know for me it's somewhere

in the middle which is recognize why you

lost recognize that you lost say it

because it's important to say it,

analyze it, but then move on. Like,

let's move on. And the next time you

hope to

have learned some kind of judgment to

avoid that kind of a loss, but it

doesn't mean you're going to avoid

losing at all. Like, if you're not

taking shots, you're not missing. You're

you're not losing. So, for me, it's

constantly moving and taking your shots,

losing, learning next, losing, learning

next. That constant motion is what I

want to see. Um that constant motion and

learning is what excites me.

>> This is business advice but also life

advice generally because a lot of people

um who I meet who come up to me and ask

me questions about things often ask

questions that sound a lot like what you

just said. It's dealing with rejection,

dealing with taking an L, and how that L

then stays with them sometimes for a

decade, sometimes for 15 years, and and

holds them back, hurts their confidence,

means that they don't take it any more

shots, and this can cause a sort of a

downward confidence spiral.

>> Totally. And and listen, I'm I'm talking

a big game, but I would tell you in my

personal life, I can't deal with

rejection. I have a really hard time

dealing with rejection. Professional

life, no problem whatsoever. So it's

like in the end we're all humans after

all.

>> You have a a difficulty dealing with

rejection in your personal

>> very much. Yeah.

>> What kind of rejection?

>> Any kind of rejection conflict like it's

it's something that has been uh that I

fought my whole life which is because I

was one of the younger cousins because I

was a youngest brother. I just kind of

didn't have rights.

So I was I went with the flow. And going

with the flow means you're going with

the current etc. I didn't cause trouble

and that has followed me in my personal

life. In my professional life, I don't

have as much trouble there. I guess my

professional life to some extent is a

mask because I get to be aggressive. I

get to lose, etc. It's something that

Sid, my wife, has really helped me with,

but it is something in my personal life

that generally I'm conflict avoidant.

>> You're conflict avoidant in your

personal life. Interesting.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Hm. That's not

good in a relationship.

>> No. No. That's why that's why Sid's

helping me out. I'm much better now. I'm

much better. But it's

>> it's when I take those issues on, I have

to fight myself.

>> There's some core, you know, if if you

and I were having an issue. Yeah.

>> And I was sitting down with you and

saying, "Hey, I'm not I'm not happy

about X or Y." I can feel there's a core

of me saying, "Just let it go." But

that's how resentment builds and that's

how relationships um over a long period

of time start moving the wrong way. So

it is something that is at my core but I

actively fight uh and I'm getting better

at it but I'm still on a learning

journey there. I'll tell you that

>> eventually you go on to becoming the CEO

of Expedia after um there was a couple

of CEOs that came before you but you

became the third and

>> took that company on. Very different job

going from investment banking to being a

CEO.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Now there there was a

journey there because I went from

banking to running deals and I knew that

I knew that I I liked how companies

worked. The thing that I liked about

investment banking was that I got to see

a lot there. I got to see really smart

people, really cool companies build, but

I couldn't go along with that journey. I

was jealous of the journey that these

CEOs were were moving on. So then when

M&A was a bridge to work at a company

and build uh the company, I moved from

M&A to CFO, chief financial officer

because that's uh that's that's to some

extent finance, but it's also being the

CEO's partner and helping the CEO build.

So I I always knew the direction that I

want to go in, which is hey, at some

point I want to actually be an operator.

And then I had the opportunity to take

over Expedia. the CEO at the time, Eric

Blashford, kind of said, "Yeah, big

company thing, not for me." So, he

resigned. And honestly, Barry didn't

have an alternative. Who

>> was the owner of Barry was the CEO and

chairman of IA, which was a parent

company of what became Expedia, I

travel. The head of IC Travel resigned.

I raised my hand. I said, "Maybe I could

do it." Barry was desperate. He had no

one else. So he promoted me to be CEO of

IA travel and IC travel was going

through some difficult times. So we spun

it off as at at Expedia. So that's when

I became the CEO of Expedia, the public

company and I moved to the Netherlands

of of uh Seattle.

>> In your job just before you took on that

role as CEO, you were buying businesses.

So M&As, mergers and acquisitions, you

were buying companies. Yes.

>> What are some of the companies that you

bought?

>> Oh, we bought a lot of companies. Uh we

bought ticket master. Uh we bought

match.com

uh bought Expedia Hotels.com and and it

was all about the theme that Barry and I

were uh fascinated with was the movement

of commerce online. You know, it was it

was during that uh time. It was the late

late 90s, early 2000. And and we saw it

happening with our very own eyes really

with home shopping, right? It was it's a

flat screen. It was a television and you

were offering products and people were

calling up buying those products

electronically

and just the medium changed. The medium

changed from a TV screen to an internet

screen and instead of calling you could

use uh HTTP

uh and so while the medium changed we

kind of saw this opportunity to take

advantage of the of the change of

platform. So match.com essentially in

the olden days you know you had online

dating but you would call a number and

you'd be like my name is Da and I'm 6'2

and this you describe yourself and you

hear other kind of uh recordings and you

would get matched up based on someone

who seemed nice

>> and all of that just moved online. That

was what Batch.com was. Same thing with

Ticket Master. You know in the olden

days you would go to a Tower of Records.

Have you ever been to a Tower of

Records? You're too Yeah. So there were

these things called record stores and

they also had a desk where they would

sell concert tickets. So you would

either call for a concert ticket or you

would physically go and buy one.

Amazing. And there were lines, Tower

Record lines. What's that?

>> And all of that exactly moved online.

And same thing with travel, right? You

would call a travel agent and so all of

there was this movement of retail and

phone commerce to online commerce. And

we identified the early players to make

that shift and personals, ticketing,

travel were the ones that we went with

went for because at the time Amazon was

doing everything else like physical

fulfillment. So what we were going for

were essentially electronic transactions

that did not require physical

fulfillment and that was travel because

you know it's a virtual good ticketing

uh match.com which which was personal.

So there was a pattern around the

madness so to speak but we went out and

bought all these companies. It was a

really great time.

>> I've got two questions that emerge

there. One one is again I'm really

interested to understand how you would

look for talent or how what how you

think about what a great company is. Are

there like we we looking at the company

culture? Were we looking at the

founders? Was there something else? Was

it the profitability? And the other one

is just really intrigued as to what this

period of your life and thereafter

taught you about how to spot opportunity

and transition cuz that is a

transitional moment of technology. And I

think there is a certain pattern

recognition one can develop as to like

know what to bet on in these moments of

transition where there's huge

skepticism. The internet's going to be

anything. It's a so two questions. One

is like how do you spot great companies

and then the second is like patterns in

transition.

>> So they're I'd say that they're related

which is um we would spot great

companies

just by observing who is taking the lead

in these transitions. You know these

transitions are difficult. You can't

predict exactly where things are going,

how quickly they're going, how much

should you invest, what's a return, what

uh what the what the market how large is

the market going to be. But there were

companies that were emerging as the

leaders and we would just I just

identify the leaders and call call these

folks up and say I want to come in and

talk to you. Like that was that was it.

And to some extent it's a

self-reinforcing cycle which is yes the

great management teams and the great

founders were the ones who were able to

identify the opportunity and hit that

opportunity faster than anyone else

recognize that opportunity and execute

on that opportunity faster than anyone

else. So to some extent the companies

who were in the lead of course had the

best management teams and had the best

founding teams. And when those two

things matched, that was when we jumped.

And then the the last thing I would tell

you in terms of these pattern uh

recognitions is that

we never completed a successful deal

because we got the company cheap. We

actually overpaid for every single great

company that we bought, but we overpaid

based on what the market thought at the

time,

>> not what the reality turned out to be.

So I do think one of the kind of pieces

of pattern recognition with me is just

humans

think about

success and transitions in a linear way

because time is linear.

>> Would you someone that doesn't just they

think of it going like this?

>> Yeah. You know it's it's the everything

kind of moves this way, right? Your your

schedule is relatively linear, right?

It's you sleep seven hours a day. Like

your life is a linear life. But company

and company success and company

momentum, especially with new

technologies where if there's a

technology that's truly better than the

other technology within the virtual

world, there's absolutely no friction

holding it back, the these companies

move in an exponential way in terms of

their growth and ultimately in terms of

their value. So whereas most people kind

of see things they they when they

project out to the to the future they

see this what actually happens is this

and that's where the opportunity is.

It's the it's the spread between the

hockey stick and kind of the straight

line.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh and it's very difficult for people to

process that. And so that was, you know,

those were the companies that we

identified that hockey stick. And online

travel was a hockey stick, personals was

a hockey stick, ticketing was a hockey

stick.

>> I heard about the is it Jeans paradox?

>> Yes.

>> Which I think kind of sort of overlaps

with what you're saying there. When

things become easier, faster, cheaper,

people do them not incrementally more,

but ex like exceptionally more often. I

mean that that's the definition of Uber

and we can get to that at some point was

uh originally it was built as a black

cab service so to speak a black car

service.

>> Can you tell me that's that where it

came from? Because a lot of people

history has now moved forward that

people have forgotten the story of how

it came to be.

>> Now to some extent it was it well to a

large extent it was that the founding

was was before me but it was um uh

Garrett Camp who was one of the founders

had this idea uh and I think it was born

in Paris. It was like a snowy day in

Paris and they couldn't find a black car

and it was a bunch of young young tech

guys and like how cool would it be to

like pick up my phone and call a black

car and that was the the core idea which

is hey you can use your phone to call a

black car he brought on uh Travis

Kalanick Travis was the operator and and

the founder and to to your point and

Jeban's paradox to some extent people

thought well what's the size of the

black car market place and it was a

couple billion dollars or what's the

size of the taxi industry and it was uh

more than a couple of billion dollars.

But what they didn't see at the time was

that as you improve the con if you

radically make something either more

convenient or cheaper, the market

expands beyond how you calculate it. So

the Uber size and scale now is way

beyond the original marketplace of black

cars and or taxis. It it's the company

the company today is a result of Jeban's

paradox

>> timing.

We often um we often don't think much

about the luck of timing. Luck is an

interesting word to use, but how

important timing is and other sort of

foundational factors are in enabling a

company like Uber to exist. When you

think about the timing of Uber, what are

the sort of the foundations that made it

possible?

>> Well, it was it was a mobile revolution.

It was um mobile data technology, the

iPhone coming together. In the early

days, one of the geniuses of Tra of

Travis was he would hire these market

managers who would be GMs of new cities

that they would expand into. and they

would literally go to the city with a

bag full of iPhones and give away

iPhones to black car drivers to get them

to come on Uber because at the time a

lot of them didn't have you know they

they didn't have smartphones so to

speak. So the onset of the of the

smartphone was that kind of that

beautiful magic of timing coming

together and then aggressiveness of that

founding team to understand that there's

a pattern here and I'm going to

replicate that pattern all the world and

raise as much capital as I have to to

get there faster than anyone else. That

was the magic. But it was, you know,

again, it's, yes, there's luck in there,

but if that founding team hadn't been as

aggressive in, you know, blit scaling,

which is a term that folks used, uh, all

around the world, company wouldn't be

what it is today.

>> Your transition out of investment

banking into Expedia, CFO, then CEO. You

know, listen, there's a stereotype in

business that um investment bankers and

CFOs don't necessarily make the best

CEOs because of

>> they might stereotypically

>> over financialize

>> over financial maybe be less riskaverse,

maybe be less, you know, those kinds of

things. And when I spoke to Barry, he

did say the following. I'll just play it

for you because it's uh better coming

from him. H

>> he was not an actual leader uh because

he had uh his career up until then has

had been on the financial side of

things. So he really had not yet had the

experience or opportunity to manage

people. That came in a difficult way to

him and he mastered it. It didn't take

him all that long. He mastered how to

become a leader and he mastered how to

take ultimate responsibility for a

company.

>> Yeah, it was um growing up under Barry

was was and and by the way I I wouldn't

be where I am today without not him as a

mentor because he's not like a mentoring

kind of guy but him as my leader

learning from him. But I say that the

experience that really really shaped me

uh as it relates to Expedia was I did

come in as more of a financial leader.

our

leadership at Expedia.com failed. I

hired a I had to fire the first uh

person. I hired a second person.

Complete disaster. And so I was 0 for

two in terms of hiring for our largest

business. This business was 50% of our

profits and I was 0 for two in uh in

hiring. And so I went to Barry and the

board and I said, 'Well,

if I miss hiring the third person to run

the biggest parts of our business, then

you should fire me. Barry quickly

agreed, yes, of course we will. So I

said, obviously, I don't understand

enough about the job to find the right

person. So I think I've got to take the

job myself for 6 months to a year to

understand what what is it that the job

entails for me to then go and and find

that person. And so for what turned out

to be I think it was five or six years I

ran both the holding company Expedia

Inc. which is a public company and I ran

Expedia.com. I was president of the

largest part of the company. That

experience taught me my operating

troughs. That experience actually taught

me how is it that you operate a company?

How is it that you run something? And

that's a very different skill set from

capital allocation and you know all the

financial uh wizardry that people embark

on. That's important. But the what I

discovered was operating a company,

leading a company, organizing it,

operating it, setting up the goals,

getting the right team together. That's

the part of the job that I loved. So it

it it took me a while to get there. Like

my whole life, my whole early career was

in this financial sector. which I

enjoyed, but I didn't find my true love,

which is operations and running

companies and running a technology

company until way, way later in my

career. Uh, and I think to some extent

now I've got both. I've got that

financial part cuz it has to work. But

the operations and the leadership part

of the business is something that that I

love.

And watching Barry take responsibility,

take shots, go against the grain, um, as

aggressively as he consistently did, I

think has made me a much better operator

than what the counterfactual would be if

I had another boss.

>> Three months into that role, the head of

HR told you that you were scaring

people.

>> I've forgotten about that.

>> I think that was my job. Yeah.

What's the context there?

>> You know the context was that

I first of all turnarounds in technology

are really hard. Uh we were talking

about the momentum thing where momentum

is positive. In the technology sector if

momentum turns negative it is remarkably

difficult to turn it around. You know

Yahoo is hanging on but it was the great

company and you see where it is now.

It's brutal when you get it wrong. And

it always takes longer than you think.

And it goes to, you know, what I was

talking about linear versus exponential.

Just like the curves up are exponential,

curves down are exponential as well. The

first couple of years look bad, but

they're not that bad.

>> But you know in your mind that 10 years

from now, it's going to be a [ __ ]

disaster. Mhm.

>> So what I saw with Expedia was a

technology company

whose technology engine was broken.

Codebase was old, had not been

reinvested in. Technology leadership was

coasting.

And that really alarmed me. And one of

the things that I learned from Barry in

terms of leadership is

that when you know a bell is rung, when

when you when you see something, when

you see a pattern, you have to act. You

can't wait for a second. So in my mind,

once I figured out, oh my god, this

really is a turnaround. This isn't like

a company that I've got to tune. this

company if I don't move and move hard

and fast is is going to start on that

exponential decay curve. I had to move

quickly and at that point and and I am

one of the skills that I learned from

Barry is transparency. It's like

whenever he wanted to understand an

issue he wanted to go to the source. He

didn't want a summary and it didn't

matter where that source was. Is it a

junior analyst or a president? He wanted

to hear from the source because what he

didn't want to lose is lose the fidelity

of the issue. You know, when there's an

issue here and then it goes through the

analyst and the associate and the vice

president and an SVP and whatever, by

the time it's summarized for you as the

CEO, it's just it's lost everything. And

usually their levels are like, "Hey, do

we really want to tell them that? Why

don't we phrase it this way, etc." So

your whole life as a CEO is kind of a

it's a version of the world that your

team wants you to see. And if you got a

good team, usually it has more to do

with reality than not, but you are

subject to your team and the information

flow that that gets to you. And so Barry

always wanted to go to the source. He

would just cut through levels, cut

through levels, get to

the core of the idea, and then once he

did, he would move and he would move

fast. And for me, I've kind of I have

held on to that, but I've also turned it

the other way, which is

one of the ways in which I can depend on

getting the real [ __ ] from you is my

being honest with you, right? and and

human beings are good [ __ ] you

know, kind kind of meter so so to speak.

And and when you're the CEO and you're

talking to your staff and you're giving

all the, you know, the business talk and

we're doing this, but the last quarter

we had some certain challenges and this

and that, they see you bullshitting them

and so why the hell should they tell you

the truth, right? if their if their boss

isn't telling them the good stuff, why

should they give the good stuff back to

the boss? So, for me, it it was almost

like a self-defense mechanism that as a

boss, I'm going to tell you what's going

on because that's the only way I can

drag the hard truths back from you. Cuz

otherwise, you're going to filter

yourself. You're gonna be like, I don't

want Dart to know this happened.

>> But do you ever worry that they might

not be able to deal with the truth?

>> Then they can leave. And and I think

that that's so I think that's what my

head of HR was saying. I was scaring the

[ __ ] out of people cuz I'm like we have

a real problem here and we've got to

come together and and I think that that

you know there's a I was a good

decision-m framework for me is um if I

make a mistake where do I want to make

the mistake on? Right? And so if I want

to if I'm going to heir with my company,

I'm going to heir in telling the truth

and potentially scaring someone away.

I'll take that because if that person

doesn't want to face the truth, if he or

she's not up for the fight, then they

should go someplace else. They can have

a good time. I'm sure they can have a

good career, etc. So for me as a leader,

I've always always believed in

transparency partially because then I

think you attract the right people.

>> Mhm. and uh partially because then I'm

gonna get the good information so to act

on. Usually the failures I see with CEOs

aren't because they made the wrong

decisions. It's because they were

getting the wrong data that led to the

wrong decisions. So it's incredibly

important as a leader of any

organization for you to build the

channels and build the kind of culture

that surfaces problems to you quickly.

And then for me too, you always have to

have your random direct channels. You

know, the the again, if you think about

organizations as organisms,

they have their own incentives. And so

my staff's incentive is to control the

the the information that gets to me, not

because they're bad people. It's just

their job because I can get overwhelmed.

Who do I meet with? What's my schedule?

You know, is this person worthy of

meeting the CEO? And for me, my fight is

I just set up a bunch of random [ __ ]

I'll meet with, you know, engineers four

levels down consistently because usually

they've got the kind of personality

where they don't give a [ __ ] They'll

tell me anything and everything and they

like putting the CEO down. That's great.

>> They like putting the CEO down.

>> It's, you know, engineers often, you

know, don't like authority and code is

like the biggest authority buster. It's

like the truth truth. Uh, so I find a

lot of engineers have a personality

which is, yeah, I'm gonna tell you what

it's like. Like I'm, you know, they they

they their value is in something else,

but often they don't. There's a kind of

a disrespect for authority that I love.

>> I found in my companies that there's

sometimes like a 24year-old young girl

who will just tell me the truth.

>> Yeah.

>> And she's the one you want to hang out

with.

>> She's the one I always go and ask for an

opinion.

>> Absolutely. And so that that's you've

got to have your your own channels, but

the way to the way to get transparency

from your team is first first you've got

to give it to them.

>> Was the culture hardworking when you

arrived? Could you use the word coasting

to describe some of the team when you

arrived at Expedia?

>> Medium. I think the company had been

successful for a long time and uh had

coasted on that success to some extent.

So I needed to turn over the team turn

over like the entire team very very

quickly and get some hungry people in

there. the entire team.

>> Almost the entire team. Yeah. Yeah. It

was uh it was rough going for a while,

but then you have kind of

missionoriented people who are trying to

prove themselves. Um and it's part of

the renewal that every company has to go

through and we turned it around. It was

it was tough going, but we really turned

around and that was when I kind of I

learned, hey, my my love is running

[ __ ] It's great. It's the best part of

my job.

>> How did you get that company to work

hard? Because there's so many people

listening right now that are in a

company that might have been successful,

might be two decades in

>> and this is an ultimate question in like

executive management. How do you turn

around the culture of a big or even even

200 people?

>> It's very difficult. Um and sometimes

the shortcut is just change of people

like it's very easy to say oh you have

values this and that. So it's it's

finding the people who you believe will

line up with your cultural mechanisms or

how you work or your values

and then embodying those values and

those mechanisms as examples and then

making sure that your team embodies

those values and imbuss down the down

the organization. So part of working

hard is like, you know, sending emails

to the team on a Saturday and if I don't

get a response on Saturday, sending them

an email on Sunday with a question mark.

What's going on? You know, I think at

Expedia in hindsight,

we we worked intensely and and and we

went hard, but but not as hard as I like

because Expedia was we were selling

vacations, right? It was it was the the

product that we were selling was about

turning yourself off. And so we did talk

about work life balance. Uh and in

hindsight

at Uber, I don't, you know, you come to

Uber, you're going to work your ass off.

We're going to be really demanding. If

you're not performing,

we're going to let you know, and if you

don't fix it, we're going to push you

out. But while it will be incredibly

hard,

you will have real agency at the

company. We're a big company, but

individuals can make a big difference.

And it's a company that's making a

difference in the world. You're going to

learn so much. And while you will have

worked hard, you're going to have a

great time. But this is don't come here

if you want to coast. And I'm very clear

about that. And I should have been more

clear at Expedia, but we were selling

vacations, so I couldn't be quite that

clear.

>> New year always has a strange energy to

it because people start talking about

their goals, fresh starts, and new

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In your 12 years as CEO, Expedia stock

rose 550%.

And sales increased 400% from 2.1

billion to 8.8 billion. And you were the

highest paid CEO of a US tech company

with a pay of 94.1 million.

>> I left it all behind to go to Uber.

>> You left it all behind. There was a big

options packet that I never vested, but

it's all good.

>> It was a great run.

>> I'm so I'm so intrigued about this point

of hard work because I think 10 years

ago saying what you just said was very

taboo.

>> Yes.

>> It feels to be more invoked.

>> We're freed now. YES.

>> YOU'RE FREED NOW.

>> YES. YES, INDEED. It's it I've I've

gotten um you know, sometimes people ask

you the question, uh what advice would

you give to young people? And to me, the

most important skill in life is a skill

of working hard. And it's not a skill

you can't just like decide you're going

to do it. And I think way too many many

people, you know, focus on should be

should should you be a computer

programmer or a doctor or study the

liberal arts now that anyone can vibe

code? Just learn to work hard. And it

is, you know, the the when you see the

top athletes,

of course, they're talented and, you

know, their talent level is world

levels, but the thing that changes that

that's different about the elite

athletes than the non- elite athletes,

and I'm talking elite, is they work

their asses off. They're disciplined.

They're structured. They're relentless.

You know, look at Ronaldo, look at

Michael Jordan, etc. That's the same

thing is true in all of life. It's true

in business. It's true in personal life.

And so for me

with my kids, I just want to teach them

how to work hard. And and for me, like

growing up, I as a banker, as an

executive, I'm not going to let anyone

out me. And if that's true, then they

may be smarter, more talented, etc. But

I'm not going to let anyone outwork me.

And I think that that's a huge advantage

that you have. over a period of time

that advantage compounds and I want them

our company like I want Uber to be an

incredibly hardworking company

>> comes at a cost though working hard

>> yes it it comes at a trade-off and and

we we believe in flexibility so people

confuse kind of lack of flexibility to

working hard you can work hard and at

the same time you can have flexibility

so if you want to have dinner with your

family and I'm I'm religious about

having dinners with my family when I'm

in town you know 6:00 to 8 uh absolutely

spend that I'm with my family, but at,

you know, 9:30 p.m. I'm checking emails.

>> Mhm.

>> Right. When I wake up at 5:30 and a.m.

I'm checking emails. So, of course,

there are trade-offs. And, you know,

life is about trade-offs.

>> I think one of the most important things

I've learned from interviewing CEOs and

generally we've gone through a

transition of COVID and remote work and

then come back into like everyone's in

the office again is actually the most

important thing is what you just said,

which is being honest with people so

that they can make decisions for

themselves in their lives. I think the

the thing that one might describe as

toxic is when you say something

publicly, but then when they arrive,

it's a completely different deal. But

what you're doing is you're being honest

and you're therefore allowing people to

make decisions for themselves in their

own lives.

>> And I'm allowing them to be honest back

to me.

>> Yeah. And you're a that's a that's a

company culture that someone like me

would be attracted to.

>> Absolutely.

>> But there's lots of people listening

that couldn't think of anything worse.

>> And that's okay.

>> Yes. Yeah.

>> There are plenty of companies that they

could find or plenty of causes that they

can find. It's fine. You said learn to

work hard. Learn

>> it's a it's a skill.

>> Really?

>> Yes. Of course it is because you you've

got to the idea of just staying focused

on something, not being discouraged by

failing, trying over and over again and

just working harder than others. It's

not something you can turn on and off. I

see it in people all the time. There's

just like this grim determination. like

we uh at Uber that there's actually

saying it's it's it's inside one of our

values. Embrace the grind, you know,

embrace it. That's

that's a learned skill. That's not

something you're born with. Maybe maybe

there's an element that you're born

with.

>> Have you ever seen someone who isn't a

hard worker become a really hard worker,

an exceptionally hard worker?

>> Ah, that's a good question. No, no one

doesn't occur to me. Have you?

>> No. I I heard I think it might have been

maybe Brian Chesky Airbnb or Elon say

that he's never seen someone who wasn't

a hard worker become a really hard

worker.

>> That's interesting.

>> And this is why

>> I'm trying to come up with someone

failing so far.

>> And maybe I might posit that it's

somewhat to do with you know these

photos that you have in front of you,

your childhood, your early context which

you didn't choose. I also working hard

here. But yeah,

>> but that you were forged in such a way

that you were going to be

>> ruthless. So relentless is the word I

meant.

>> Yeah. I I mean ruthless to myself.

>> Mhm.

>> Relentless. Relentless is right. You

know, I think I think at one point Jeff

Bezos was going to call Amazon

relentless. That was uh he was thinking

about that being the name of the

company,

>> right? It's it's just and and that is

when I see successful technology

companies and especially technology

companies there is this relentlessness

about them like at Uber we have lots of

different groups that are trying to do

different things but each and every team

is built and targeted on optimizing and

improving their own particular function.

There isn't a piece of the company that

is not improving every single day. And

if they're not improving fast enough,

someone else is going to take their

place and going to improve it. So as a

as an organism, every part of the

company, whether it's a payments team in

terms of new payments types or uh

payment success or the fraud team or the

mobile app team in terms of conversions,

etc. Every team is set up in and

organized for and gold on improving

everything that they do. So the whole

company in small ways is constantly

improving never ever stopping and it is

that relentless nature of business and

and the minute and it's not good enough

to get better. We have to get better

faster than our competitors because our

competitors are all getting better as

well. So it's it's basically like who

can adapt faster to either the reality

of the market as it is today or the

prediction of the market as you see it

tomorrow. And it's the speed of change

and it's identification of the

opportunity. Those are the two factors I

think that are most important. Um, and

the speed of change, you know, if you

can work fast, you're kind of

accelerating time. You know, every one

shot that you take, I can take two

shots. I've got more time than you do.

And then, of course, there's identifying

the opportunity, going after it. Those

are the two things you really have to

get right. If you're taking two shots,

not only you going to get two data

points of information, but you're also

increasing your probability of having a

successful shot by like 100%.

>> Shots on goal. Just shots on goal.

>> How do you create a culture of

continuous improvement? Because

successful companies, as you kind of

highlighted earlier, they become

complacent with their victories and they

like to take some time off and celebrate

and

>> you know, we high five and then and then

we chill and then actually the studies

show they did this big meta analysis

where they looked at successful

companies and they showed that they

become risk adverse.

>> Totally. because they lost a version.

They have something to lose now. So just

protect.

>> I think the good news to some extent

with Uber is that we've always been a

company that has had a chip on its

shoulder. You know, the company had a

chip on it shoulder when it was founded

and had to like fight taxi unions for

its very existence. Uh and then the

disaster happened with Travis leaving

and then a new CEO coming in at the

time. That was a really really difficult

time. Then we went through a period of

COVID which was again a disaster for the

company but ultimately prepared us to to

do better. Then people saying you know

it was a tough IPO. Uh Uber is never

going to get profitable and today we're

incredibly successful but we've got the

challenge and the opportunity of AI and

autonomous. So we've always been a

company that has been I would say

underestimated

and that feeds into our culture that

this is a we are a hungry company and I

do think we're sometimes

guilty of getting complacent in little

ways and I have a leadership team that

when they see complacency more often

than not than not they identify it and

they get it the hell out. It's it's a

team that is not satisfied, that's

always driving and I love that about us.

>> How does one balance enjoying the

success and the accomplishments? I mean,

you've turned this company around,

highly profitable company. Everyone that

I've spoken to, many of our mutual

friends have talked lovingly about the

impact you've had on the business. I

mean, the numbers speak for themselves.

When you joined Uber, Uber was losing

2.5 to 3 billion per year. Now, it

generates 8.5 billion in free cash flow

every year.

How do you get people to

>> 9.8 in the last year, but

>> you you're counting 9.8. Okay.

Incredible.

>> Celebrate. Chill.

>> Sure. Well, you you can you can

celebrate or not chill.

>> Okay. How

>> you can do we we take those moments. We

do c it's cool to run a company. That's

so important. It's cool to run a company

that's hitting record after record after

record. And we do celebrate those

records and we do celebrate those teams.

Maybe not enough. And again, it goes to

like what what what mistake would you

rather make? I'd I'd rather make the

mistake of celebrating a little bit too

little and kind of being a little pissed

off about life in general and pushing.

But um we we take our moments, but the

the the success itself, I don't know,

succeeding is almost a celebration in

and of itself. And and when you're

succeeding in such a competitive field,

I just find a deep sense of satisfaction

there. Uh and I think my team does, too.

How do you get the team to take take

those risks that they need to take? Is

there something you do you like

incentivize them on the amount of shots

they take? How do you do that? One is

they're always moving fast. That's what

we do. We push we're constantly pushing

the pace of the company in terms of

execution. So I think that helps. But

but I do think that there's there's a

mechanism that we talk now about that

I've talked to a team about taking smart

risks. I think you're absolutely right

which is as companies get bigger and

more successful they tend to become more

riskaverse

and it should be the exact opposite

because you can take more risks you can

make more mistakes because you've got

kind of this 9.8 8 billion of cash flow

to protect yourself against some of

those mistakes. So I have definitely in

the past I would say two years pushed

the team actively to push the envelope

in terms of risk. Don't be defensive, be

offensive, etc. And it comes from my

challenging the teams, my talking about

it, setting examples of sometimes

failing and then saying it's okay,

moving on. Uh and then sometimes my

taking decisions that are seen as more

risky than not. that setting the example

then allows the company to follow.

>> So if I was in one of your teams, what

how do you think about goal setting for

me?

>> Um all the teams have different goals,

business goals. The ads team has to

drive at technologydriven incremental ad

uh dollars per year andor customer

satisfaction uh customer NPS etc. So

every team has its own goals uh and they

organize against those goals and they

execute those goals and they're

religiously tracked. It's the best

mechanism that we have. I just wish that

there was a better one because the art

of the goal setting becomes the issue

which is are you setting the right

goals? Are they too ambitious? Are they

not ambitious enough? And sometimes

people can game the system. So we use it

but I can't tell you that it's perfect.

What about you talked earlier about

values. A lot of companies go and do an

offsite and they write some words on a

words on a white on a wall and they say

ambition, enthusiasm, courage, whatever.

What do you think of that sort of

corporate habit of go values and stuff?

>> We went through the exercise, failed the

first time, succeeded the second time.

We and and when it and we failed when it

first came to Uber, obviously there was

a view that there we needed a cultural

reset of the company and so it was very

important for me to go and inspect the

culture of the company and

change it. It was a statement and the

culture had I think some cool stuff in

there, some cool ideas in there. Like

for example, there was one value that

was um to stepping and the idea of toe

stepping is is what you and I talked

about earlier, which is we want to

challenge each other within the

organization. And so if I have to step

on your toes and tell you something that

you don't want to hear, I'm allowed to

even though it hurts you uh because the

truth is more important. So sometimes

the truth hurts and that's okay. That

was the idea of toestepping. And what

happened was sometimes those values

became weaponized where to stepping

whose spirit came from a place of we

want to speak the truth became an excuse

to be a jerk.

>> Right? So the values in and of

themselves can be great or

terrible based on how you execute on on

those values. When I first came in, we

had to redo the values. And I was there

there's a saying by um Jeff Bezos that

that I love, which is like the the

values of the company almost they they

they appear the value system of the

company appears to some extent. You

don't if you say thou shalt, you're

going to fail because the company shall,

>> right? And the approach that we first

took was that we will actually get the

value system. We had we had a vote for

all the employees in the company. What

values do you think should be part of

the new Uber, etc. We took all the

signal and then we edited it and came up

with a new list of of values. And there

was one value that I wrote myself. It

was mine and it was do the right thing.

Period. It wasn't crowdsourced. It was

just that. And and usually with these

values, you're like there's a whole

explanation and people are like, "Well,

what does do the right thing period

mean?" like you have to figure it out.

And for me, it it was a message to the

whole company, which was if you work at

Uber, you have a responsibility and I'm

not going to tell you exactly what to

do. So, use your judgment. And it's our

expectation that you use your judgment

to do the right thing. And sometimes

doing the right thing, it's not clear.

Should I go after my business goal?

Should I compromise on a business goal?

Because safety is in question. Of

course, you should. Safety comes first

before business, etc. But we were

putting that weight and that

responsibility in uh within the

employees. But the rest of the value

system that was kind of crowdsourced, it

was forgettable because it was the kind

of stuff that you passion, ambition,

teamwork, like what company doesn't

believe in teamwork? Give me a break. So

we uh Nikki uh Krishna Murphy who runs

uh people she pushed me to reset the

values four or five years in by then I

felt like I did have a right to have a

point of view I'd been there we weren't

quite done with the turnaround etc but I

was a part of the company and then we

came up with a value set which is

different you know there's uh our one of

our values by the way go get it was the

only one that survived

No, no, sorry. Uh, do the right thing

was the only one that survived. But for

example, go get it is one of our top

values. And the idea of go get it is

obviously it's literally what we do. We

go we help people go or get it, right?

Rise and eats. So it's kind of fun in

terms of what we do, but it's an

attitude which is we as a company, we're

go-getters. We're going to be

aggressive. We're going to push. We're

going to move fast. We play to win. And

so the value sets that we have, go get

it or one that I really like, great

minds don't think alike. We came up with

a with a set of values which I think is

unusual and describes how we are

different as a company and it's really

true to who we are.

>> How important is um this sort of this

attitude of failure and experimentation

especially in a world that's

transitioning as fast as the one we're

in. When you listen to people like Ray

Kurswell his predictions of the future

he says that if you're 10 now by the age

of 60 you'll experience a year's change

in I think it's 11 days and just this

sort of this sort of exponential

acceleration

>> the law of accelerating returns.

>> Yeah. Like how do you how do you you

know how do you create a culture or

build a team in a world where the

correct answer is changing this quickly?

I I think that it is um setting a

culture that does embrace that change

and is constantly challenging itself.

And I will give uh Travis and the

founding team credit. You know that

there's kind of this

idea of everything that they did was

terrible and that's just not true. We

have a very high talent bar at the

company. We have always kept a high

talent bar at the company and we haven't

compromised. And what I found is that

talented people who are also driven are

on a constant hunt for the truth. So

culture isn't enough. You actually need

the right people at the company. And I

think we've got a company that does have

a chip on a shoulder

was born out of the creation of a new

industry. So we've experienced it. Um,

and we have a group of people who are

driven and hungry

and are constantly looking for change

and you got a leader and a leadership

team that's pushing the company to do so

and doesn't penalize

folks for challenging them. I think it's

kind of this stew that you have to put

together, but it's a combination of

culture and people. Do you have any

mental case studies of great bets the

company has taken that most people

wouldn't have taken or thought was wrong

or wouldn't have taken the risk on that

trans transpired to be critical to your

success?

>> Well, you know, I don't know about um

well, I think it will be critical to to

the success, but there's a funny one

which is

taxis

are one of the fastest growing parts of

Uber's business. So you remember Uber,

we started as the enemy of taxis

>> and built out this peer-to-peer ride

sharing. And it's probably five or six

years ago, our head of product now,

Sachin, he worked on building kind of um

a technology that would allow taxi

companies to to have their own little

Uber app. And eventually he came to

Uber, thank God, and he's like, well,

why don't we build that in Uber? Why

don't we actually build taxis on Uber?

And originally within the company and

and I I kept in touch with some of the

founders just cuz I want their advice

cuz why not? You know, they they built a

great company. I'm standing on the

shoulders of giants. Uh they said it's

the most idiotic thing on earth that you

can't wire up taxis. They hate us. They

set rates will be terrible. Lots of

technical reasons. They had tried it

earlier. It was a total failure. But I

think Sachin

uh having worked in the industry and

then my being kind of ignorant saying

why the hell not try it that combination

allowed us to build out a taxi product

and taxi is the fastest growing segment

of the company and it went completely

against the founding of the company. But

now we're you know I I hope to have

every single taxi in the world wired up

to Uber. Why not?

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