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Plus, global business, finance, and tech

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>> Carol Master, Tim Stenbec. Uh this is

this annual gathering of leading CEOs,

innovators, um everybody who is

harnessing technology to really change

the world around us. Safe to say once

again, we're talking a lot about

artificial intelligence.

>> Yeah, we've heard from the executives,

the venture capitalists, the founders at

the forefront of the next era in

technology, AI, wearables, robotics, the

blockchain, and more. Someone who knows

a lot about this space is our own Brad

Stone. He's sitting down next to me.

We're going to get to him in just a

moment. Um, we're also going to talk

with our own Ed Lello. He's fresh off a

conversation with the co-founder and

executive chairman of Anderal

Industries. We're talking about Trey

Stevens. So, we'll talk about that.

Also, a really fascinating conversation

um with Cerebrus Systems last night. So,

Ed's going to also dig into that as

well. So, um that's coming your way.

>> Yeah. Joining us too uh a little later

is Katie Han, the former federal

prosecutor. She was the first female

general partner over at Injury Suborit.

She's going to join us. She's got Han

Ventures. Just raised a billion dollars

for a new venture fund known for crypto.

Yes.

>> But branching out of crypto a little

bit, but really also just staying in her

lane.

>> Maybe looking for the next reverse.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> Or something like that.

>> If you can find it, let me know.

>> Exactly. Hey, let's get right to Brad

Stone. He's the editor of Bloomberg

Business Week magazine. He's also the

author of many, many books, including

two on Amazon, the Everything Store and

Amazon Unbound. He also wrote a book

about the upstarts, which I want to ask

him about today's upstarts. Anyway,

let's get right to it. Good to have you

here.

>> How many of these have we done?

[laughter]

>> A lot. And they're so excited. There's

so much coming at us. Um, you walk in

here and what's interesting for you?

>> Well, I mean, today is really in large

part a conversation about AI. And every

time you talk about AI, you have this

tension between sugar coating and

cander, optimism and concern. And that

is no different. I mean, we heard from

Yosua Benjio, a professor, University of

Montreal, a godfather of AI, saying we

cannot trust the big tech companies to

do the right thing. And then Fe Lee, a

godmother of AI, saying that she

believes that all this friction is kind

of overblown, that it sucks all the

oxygen out of the room and you have

these polar opposites that are

unrealistic. And then Dan Schulman, CEO

of Verizon, saying, "Yeah, a lot of the

customer service employees are gone." I

thought he spoke with a lot of cander

today.

>> Yeah. Where where are we in a cycle

right now, Brad? Because you've, as

Carol mentioned, you have the book about

the upstarts. You've written about

Amazon. You've written about tech

companies and a completely different

part and era of Silicon Valley. Are we

in a cycle right now that's any

different than others?

>> Tim, you I think you know the answer to

that one. We are riding the wave. We are

surfing it. We are I It feels like at

the peak of a massive hype cycle.

>> Does it feel like this time is

different? Those dreaded words that I'm

never allowed to say, but I always do. I

I mean I would compare it to uh the

internet boom of the late 90s in which

there's a lot of hype, a lot of froth.

Not all the companies are real and are

going to make it. But that you know that

the underlying change is so fundamental

and and AI I think you know it it it

changes everything. It's already changed

the way we work, the way our company

works. I think it's happening across the

board and we're just at the beginning of

realizing the promise

>> you know but I also think about you know

the intersection of technology and money

and people spending a lot chasing to be

the first the best in this this race but

I wonder how much of that clouds the

judgment of whether or not that race

makes sense in the end

>> right and we're so we're talking about

perceptions and valuations

>> but um look I mean we had Daniela Amod

day, the the co-founder of Enthropic,

you know, she gets on stage and says,

you know, this is this buildout's

costing a lot of money, so we're going

to go go tap the public markets. But and

we've already seen though that those

offerings are generating a lot of

excitement. The excitement is real, and

it has paid off for different investors

at different levels of the ecosystem.

You know, the big question ends up being

whether that retail investor at the end

of the line, how well they do. Brad, I

also feel like it's changed San

Francisco. And you know, Carol and I

come here a couple times a year and we

came here during the depths of the

pandemic. A lot of people left the city

for dead at that time. And I got to tell

you, I'm I'm in a small part of it right

now, but anecdotally speaking, there was

a 20-minute line for like $7 matchas

this morning. And everybody was waiting

in line. There are people everywhere.

There are people spending money. I walk

out of my hotel room and I see a

supercar. Like, what is happening to the

city right now? Well, first of all, are

we to understand that you yourself

purchased a $7 matcha?

>> I'm just doing research. I'm just doing

research.

>> Well, look, we in San Francisco,

>> you could also get coffee there, too.

>> We are very good at ringing our hands

about things. And 5 years ago, it was

homelessness and the desertion of

downtown and the chaos of the open drug

markets. And, you know, credit to our

new mayor and the change in the business

cycle. There's a lot of excitement and

energy in the city. But now the concerns

are different. We worry that with this

wave of wealth coming from these IPOs

that it will be impossible for people to

buy and rent homes. It's already uh

classically difficult in the city. And

it's only going to get more difficult.

If you're an employee at one of the big

companies in San Francisco that's not in

tech, you know, the Gap Levis, how do

you possibly compete and live in the

city?

>> That's a really good point. And so,

look, I mean, I I think that yes, the

problems are different and there's a lot

of energy and excitement, but a city

like San Francisco, it's hard to kind of

bottle the economic phenomena.

>> You bring up a really good point. Levis

is a great example. How does Levis hire

a computer programmer or an engineer

>> if if that person could go get a job

that, you know, pays 3x and gives stock,

you know, based compensation over at

Anthropic?

>> I think it's incredibly challenging. You

also have an anti-b businessiness

environment here that occasionally does

raise its head. And in the primary that

we just had earlier in the week, there

was consideration given to an extra tax

on businesses whose CEO makes a factor

larger than average employees. Now, that

ballot did get defeated, but it's

there's a lot of push and pull around

what kind of city do we want to be and

how do we manage the economic

disparities that are being created by

this AI boom.

>> Well, go into politics. I feel like

you've been having a lot of

conversations. We think about the the

governor's race, some interesting

candidates in that. I mean, what do the

people of California want going forward

and who's going to do that for them?

>> I mean, the funny thing is we voted on

Tuesday and we do not know what the the

citizens of California said yet because

only about half the votes have been

counted, but so far Javier Bera, Scott

Hilton are the leaders. You've got Tommy

Styer still within shouting distance.

Yeah, it's interesting because some of

the most extreme viewpoints on tech seem

like they're not advancing. I me

mentioned the ballot initiative that's

failed. You know, Styer was really the

most aggressive about regulating tech

and AI. He doesn't seem to have made the

runoff. Of course, we don't know. Um, so

but look, I mean, for some reason, we

count the ballot slowly here, but I I

will be interviewing um uh Scott Weiner,

Senator, State Senator Scott Weiner, who

appears to be the front runner for Nancy

Pelosy's job. He will instantly become

the most interesting and maybe important

regulator of tech and AI in the nation's

capital. If he wins the election in the

fall,

>> I have to say, and that is one of those

things that has come up often with the

naysayers or those who are concerned. um

whether it's Joshua Benjio, I mean just

concerned about you know having people

in government, the United States

government but also globally to make

sure that the regulations and the

oversight is there. What do you want to

hear from him

>> from Senator Weiner? Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, um I think two things. One,

he has been uh an important state

legislator. He's proposed these two

bills about regulating AI. The one that

passed um was the watered down version.

I want to know that if he does get

elected, what kind of AI regulation does

he bring to the nation's capital? But

the second thing is that some of the

ideas we hear right now for regulating

AI come from Senator Bernie Sanders and

they're pretty extreme. A data center

moratorum and state ownership, 50%

ownership of the AI companies.

Obviously, Silicon Valley here does not

like those ideas. So, how does he work

with his colleague,

>> right?

>> We have uh five or you know 8% state

ownership of Intel right now, right?

>> We never thought that would happen.

Well, Senator Sanders is talking about

50% ownership at the same time as a data

center moratorum would really slow down

the AI revolution and crush valuation.

>> So, so on this political question, what

what's the narrative right now around

finding employees outside of Silicon

Valley to do the work

>> that Silicon Valley is so known for? And

this idea of taking like Elon Musk

taking his company's headquarters to

Texas or people relocating to Miami. Is

Silicon Valley still where the talent

is?

>> I mean, absolutely. I think a couple

years ago, we heard about the migration

away from San Francisco or Silicon

Valley because of an anti- tech or

anti-billionaire environment here.

There's still a looming question about

the billionaires tax which will go in

front of voters in the fall. But no,

this is the concentration of innovation

and ingenuity is still here. But you

mentioned the narrative um and I I think

that the narrative particularly around

regulating AI has changed. We recently

saw President Trump introduced an

executive order on AI that called for a

30-day moratorum on or 30-day review

period on reviewing AI models obviously

because of mythos and the concerns about

v vulnerability. Now, that was down from

a 90-day review period, but for the

first time, the president has gotten

farther ahead than a lot of tech

companies and legislators hear about the

need to be to go a little bit more

slowly and with introspection about

rolling out these powerful models.

>> Well, speaking of them being powerful

models, I know Mary Daly, president of

the San Francisco Fed, was up here uh

talking with Caroline Hyde. She said

there's still no clear evidence in the

economic data productivity gains from

AI. She remains bullish on the

technology, sees possibilities for early

rewards. But I think about the irony or

the harsh reality perhaps that if this

does make us all product much more

productive, takes away jobs like what

does it mean for Silicon Valley or the

rest of the country,

>> right? Well, we've heard a lot of

opinions about that. What I thought was

interesting from Mary Daly is she was

comparing it to the introduction of

electricity and how it took a while for

companies for inventors to completely

rethink their technologies and business

models. And that's what you said that we

haven't yet baked in the power of AI

fully into our companies. But I mean in

terms of um yeah what AI does for jobs I

mean Dan Schulman of Verizon saying uh

after all the layoffs they've had that

is essentially coming for all their

customer service workers to an extent.

Um we we heard it from Trey Stevens of

Andreel um uh certainly from from Yosua

Venio. Yeah I mean I think like there's

still a a really interesting

conversation here. how to what extent it

displaces workers and if so what is the

responsibility of government government

to come in and either retrain workers or

you know help with the livelihood for

everyone who's displaced.

>> We're speaking with Brad Stone. He's the

editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He's

on set here at Bloomberg Tech here in

San Francisco, the Bloomberg Tech

Summit. I want to go back to to our

interview with Joshua because what what

I found so fascinating was that, you

know, he's he's known as one of the

godfathers of AI and and he he there's a

lot of stuff that really keeps him up at

night and he couldn't really tell us for

certain if the potential positives of

the technology outweigh the potential

pitfalls of the technology. And I'm just

wondering given your experience covering

this stuff if we've ever seen a moment

where we're sort of at this precipice

like this. I mean, I think Mythos from

Antropic was was, you know, an

inflection point. The fact that we have

this technology that can identify

vulnerabilities in all of our important

systems and of course remediated. But

the question is, you know, when that

technology is broadly distributed, is it

exploited before it's remediated? And

what uh what he said was that mythos is

the beginning that everybody catches up

to mythos eventually even the Chinese

models and also I can't remember who out

somebody else said that that open AI

will be here soon and other companies

and so yeah I think we're we've hit a

point where the the genie is escaping

the model.

>> Yeah, Rafie Coran from Mozilla was on

our program and talking about the way

that they've used it to identify

vulnerabilities at at Firefox. Um but at

the same time uh you know we're mythos

is going to be old news in a year from

now when we're talking to you

>> right and

>> and everybody else is going to be

>> and and every commercial model will

essentially be mythos scale and it will

be the age of the zero day vulnerability

where these these openings are exploited

before companies or governments could

possibly rectify them and so um you know

and then it was interesting Daniela

saying that they will begin to release

these commercial models before consumer

models. So obviously the industry is

starting to think about and of course we

mentioned the Trump executive order

regulating these rollouts and trying to

instill some order around how these

tools are distributed.

>> Um you've covered technology for a long

time. You've seen similar events like

this from Bloomberg. I mean do you ever

walk away because it feels like a lot of

the tech community is always optimistic

about what's to come. Can you can you

feel a difference from last year or two

years ago in terms of tones and and what

we're hearing from the industry?

>> I feel like in some years

>> only in retrospect do I think boy we

were scrambling a little bit to make

that interesting.

>> You know that we that that obviously the

the issues of the day they loom large

but in retrospect maybe they weren't as

significant as we thought and this year

I I and and it was the same last year as

well. You know, it feels like people are

here legitimately because they want to

learn, because they they feel

desperately behind, because news and

events are happening faster than we can

possibly integrate them into our our

lives. And I I feel like that's the

energy here today. People want to hear

from these speakers and they want to

understand how they can bring this into

their own lives.

>> It's funny. I feel like you and I were

talking a little bit last night or like

I feel that way. you know, I've

scratched the surface in terms of what I

can do, but I want to understand it more

>> because yeah, we had this conversation

at dinner like none of us are vibe

coding right now and I feel like we're

just using the LLM in the most sort of

like elementary way as glorified search

and I'm like I'm not really there yet,

>> right? So, I think there's a real hunger

to learn. I think we could make this a

three-day event and have bring in people

to teach teach people how to buy code,

how to use the latest models. I I don't

I'm not in charge. I don't I don't. Um,

but I try, you know, when I can, I try

to bring it into my work. Are

>> are Okay.

Are are your kids vibe coding?

>> Well, we got a daughter back here, so

she could answer.

>> Are you vibe coding?

>> I don't know what that is.

>> Okay. Fair enough.

>> The future is safe. [laughter]

>> The kids are all right. The kids are all

right.

>> Oh boy.

>> Um, if you could talk to one person for

an hour right now when it comes to the

world of AI, who would it be? I mean

there's so many um you know there

there's so many great speakers here

today. So any but anybody

>> anybody doesn't have to even be here.

>> I mean that's um yeah that's a real

tough one. But um Dario Aod and I mean

they have look how many times in this

industry does the company that is

perceived as the secondary player

suddenly leaprog into the league command

a higher valuation dominate the

narrative with its not just its consu

consumer but it's commercial models and

I think that's a really interesting

company to kind of understand he has

steered that company particularly well

amid all the chaos of the noise

>> I will say it's always that moment of

time like this I wonder okay who of the

big names that we talk about are not

going to be here and who are the ones

that like five or 10

>> this is a a curse of having an annual

event we've had Daria we've had Sam

Alman um you want to try to uh create a

fresh lineup every year

>> great stuff thank you so much um really

appreciate it going all around uh

Bloomberg Tech here in San Francisco.

>> Stay with us. More from Bloomberg

Business Week Daily coming up after

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Business Week Daily podcast. Catch

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>> Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android

[music] Auto with the Bloomberg Business

App or watch us live on YouTube.

I got to say in prepping for this

segment [music] I actually found a story

back in 2019 that Bloomberg reported

out. They did a deep dive. The story is

entitled the smartphone revolution was

the Android revolution. It was by Shira

Oviday and it got into how the mobile

operating system called Android drove

Steve Jobs at Apple crazy. And the

reporting went on to note that while

Apple sparked the modern smart

smartphone revolution, Android Tim was

the essential ingredient that made the

devices ubiquitous.

>> Okay, so fast forward just a few years

to today. 7 years later, the open source

mobile platform, it's the world's most

widely used, depending on the stats that

you look at, just about 70% of global

share. Leading the global teams behind

it, Samir Samat, president of Android

ecosystem. He joins us live here at

Bloomberg Tech Tech. Welcome. How are

you?

>> Thank you. I'm great. Nice to see both

of you.

>> It's good to see you as well. Um, look,

we think about Android in the context of

iOS, I think a lot of people, because

that's that's really the duopoly that

exists. I think many people would argue.

How do you position Android in the

United States versus how you position it

globally where it is more widely

adopted? Well, Android is an open-

source operating system which is really

great because it allows people to build

all kinds of different devices. So, of

course, we know that uh Android is

popular for phones today where there's

over, you know, three and a half billion

Android devices that are used every day.

It's the most widely used operating

system in the world. But Android is so

much more than phones. People use it for

cars, they use it for televisions, they

use it for uh for smart watches and all

kinds of new devices, including some

smart glasses that we're working on for

for later this year as well. So, it's

really become much more than phones and

it's a whole ecosystem.

>> Well, you know, it's funny before we got

started, too. When we think about an

operating system, how do you think about

an operating system within an AI world

that is we're still kind of figuring it

out, right? We're all finding our way

here.

>> Well, it's uh it's changing a lot. You

know, things are changing all around us.

And I think the way we think about this

moment is you we're moving from an

operating system to what I call an

intelligent system. Um, one that is able

to be more predictive, uh, and more

helpful in the moment for you. So

instead of, you know, making you the

micromanager of your device, which is

the way I think computing's worked for

40 years, it's you have the idea in your

head and you use a pointing device or

taps to take that idea and do all the

things you need to do to get things

done. in this new AI era, how can we

actually make the system much smarter?

So, you give it your intention, your

goal, and it can translate that into the

action that it needs to take to help you

get more done. Yeah, I want to push on

that a little bit because I I still

think when when right now when a lot of

people think about AI, they they equate

it with LLMs and they think about LLMs

not necessarily as, you know, uh,

clogged code or or or helping us buy

code, but rather as glorified search

engines and that actually does search a

lot better than than we've grown up

using. H how what is the value

proposition for an ecosystem in the

world of AI? because you're explaining

this idea of us being more productive as

a result of this technology, but I don't

even know what that looks like. Is it

predictive? Does it know what we want

before we want it? Like, what is it?

>> Which is gets a little creepy then

potentially potentially. Potentially.

Let me give you one simple example that

I used the new release of Android with

Gemini for recently on my on my uh Pixel

device, which is, you know, I had a list

of folks that are coming to a barbecue

that I'm holding and next to each person

I had how many people are coming in

their family. Are they vegetarian? Are

they not vegetarian? You know, the

normal thing you do when you're throwing

a party, you make this list.

>> But like where do you put that list?

Does that go in Google Docs or

something?

>> I think I just had it in an email that I

was writing to myself, you know, like we

all do sometimes. And I asked Gemini

working on my Pixel device, can you take

this list, analyze it, figure out how

many hamburgers, how many hot dogs, how

many buns, and then go to Instacart and

add it all to my shopping cart, and then

let me check it out. Okay? And you know,

it took that, figured out all the

vegetarians, figured out all the things,

figured out how many people are coming,

how many kids, how many not, and it did

it for me. And so that probably saved

me, I don't know, six, seven minutes.

You add that up multiple times a day

throughout all the things that we're

doing and that's really helpful.

>> Samir, what do you think in terms of the

conversations that we're having about

artificial intelligence? Cuz I do feel

like you and I were talking about this

at dinner last night. We're just

scratching the surface in terms of

certainly how we use it and how we need

to push ourselves to better understand

what this tool can do or eventually do.

Well, I think the most important thing

right now is uh for all of us that are

in the industry or even around the

industry is to make sure we have on

hands-on experience. You know, uh one of

the things we tell our our teams and I

tell my kids as well is we should engage

with the technology to understand how it

can help you and what the limits of it

are and it's changing so quickly. What I

tell folks is even if it wasn't able to

help you with something this month, put

a note for yourself and check back 3

months later because it's moving so

fast. What what I think is important

about your example is that is that you

you had the initiative to actually ask

Gemini to do that. I think that the

challenge in this world is that a lot of

people don't know that LLMs like Gemini

can actually do that sort of thing. So

they wouldn't even know that with that

example AI could save them six or seven

minutes. How do you communicate that to

to a a a population that has no idea

what this technology can do? Truly has

no idea.

>> Well, I think that's a great question.

And you know, in the beginning when

these interfaces came out, you had a

chat prompt and we didn't know what we

could type into it. And I think people

do discover over time by by trying

things. But most importantly, the

software itself, this is where the

operating system can be really helpful.

You know, you when you talk about an

intelligence system, it should be able

to understand from you what your

intention is, you know, what's my goal?

What am I trying to get done? Oh, I'm

planning a party. Okay. Well, did you

know I can help you with this? You know,

and to prompt you to do that and to to

show you how that it can assist you in

that moment. And that's a different kind

of user interface than what we've seen.

>> What I have noticed is with Google

search, it's it's actually pushing me to

Gemini within within web- based Google

search. and it's becoming very natural.

So, it's sort of like I'm not starting

at Gemini. I'm starting at Google Search

and then using it interacting with

search like an LLM.

>> Well, I'm glad it's helping you.

[laughter] That's great. You know, we

have we have so many different tools

that that that I think are are there for

folks. And I I just want to uh give one

small example of one um called Notebook

LM. And if you're um if your viewers

haven't checked out Notebook, people

love this.

>> Yes. I mean, Notebook LM is one of my

favorites. And um you know on the

Android app for example for Notebook LM

my son who just finished finals um he

was like dad can you help me study for

for the science final um and I said sure

uh overly confident as I am about this

[laughter] and then he gave me the

material and I looked at it and I said I

haven't reviewed this in years you know

but tonight I have to do a study session

with him. I put it all in notebook LM

and it gave me an audio podcast that I

listened to on the way home and when I

got home I looked like super dad, you

know, because I could answer these

questions and go back. This is where it

starts to become helpful and I think

it's all about in the the purpose that

the the way in which we use this

technology in a purposeful, intentful

way to help make our lives better. And

that's what we're trying to do. So,

let's go there because last month when

you guys announced a bunch of upcoming

features for your Android 17 operating

system, you made some comment about

there's a great concern about AI for AI

sake and you want to be very purposeful.

What does that mean?

>> Well, I I mean I think if you if you

look at any just go talk to people, the

word AI has become pretty overloaded and

I think people are they have mixed

feelings about it. Let's just put it

that way. Um, I think what they really

want is to not hear about the

technology. What they really want is to

hear about how is this going to help me.

Um, I gave the notebook LM example, but

you know, there there's so many more

that when you when you talk about how

this can help you, it it it changes the

conversation. I'll give you one of my

favorites from Android. Android has a

feature called circle to search. Okay?

And circle to search is really simple.

You'll hold down the home button and

then you see a flash and at that point

you can circle anything on your screen.

Let's say you you have a celebrity on

your screen wearing a great outfit.

Circle it and say shop the look and it

bring Google will go take what they're

wearing and figure out what the jacket

is, what the tie is, what all the

different pieces and bring back each of

those to you so you can figure out where

to buy them and if they're right if

they're right for you. There's a ton of

AI behind the scenes there. That's not

the important thing. The important thing

is that it's super helpful, packaged in

a way that's intentful, purposeful for

the user to help them get something done

that they couldn't do before.

>> Samir, where do you think AI impacts our

world the most? Is it in our personal

lives? Is it in our work lives? Is it

everything? We keep talking about what

it's going to mean for our healthcare

and medical world. Like where do you see

it impacting our world the most or will

it be everything? Well, I think there's

a number of places that it's already

impacting our world. But I think you

know if you if you take the the

discipline of software engineering for

example that's going through a lot of

change I think exciting change but also

there are people who are concerned

changes you know with that as well. I

think in the end it will be very

productive and we're going through that

same change at Google as well. But I

think if you look at every industry

there are amazing applications. If you

look at biotech there will be amazing

applications. If we look at uh as you

said healthcare you know there will be

amazing applications. I'm wearing my new

uh Fitbit Ace, which is a

>> I I spy three different tracking things.

>> I [laughter] am a wearable guy. I'm a

wearable guy. But I think the most

exciting part about wearables these

days,

>> that's the new screenless Google device

that from Fitbit.

>> Yeah. And I And I love it. And the the

the most exciting part for me is, you

know, we've had wearables, as you can

see, I've got a bunch of them, and I

I've been involved in the space for a

long time. They're collecting health

data, but it's what you do with the data

that's most important because, you know,

if you're looking at your sleep score, I

mean, I kind of know when I had a bad

night of sleep, you know, so the

question is what are the patterns? What

are the trends? What are the insights

that can really help with behavior

change? And I think that is where AI on

the device can really help us with that.

>> Yeah. If you're listening on radio,

Samir's got a Fitbit on one wrist. It

looks like an [laughter] Android watch.

>> I have a Pixel watching.

he's got to check out what the

>> competition.

[laughter]

So, I I I want to go back to this whole

idea of the ecosystem and and how it

relates to AI and Gemini and and and the

stickiness of it because I I I think

that's a a a part of the conversation

that really has has just recently

occurred to me and and I'm wondering

what advantage you think Google has

having Gemini as its own AI operating

system along with Android and that

working seamlessly across whether we're

talking about your Fitbit, whether

you're talking about an Android phone,

whether talking about a pixel watch uh

versus sort of third party LLM like uh

you know claude or chat GPT.

>> I want to say a couple things about

that. First um you know Android is an

open platform and so one of the things

that's the central tenant of Android is

choice. So Android is the only mobile

operating system where you can choose

your personal assistant. You can choose

the agent that's important to you. So if

you want Gemini, you can use Gemini. If

you want claude or something else, you

can choose that

>> and those will work equally well.

>> Yeah. The idea with Android is that it's

open and so you should be able to plug

in what's important to you. That's a

fundamentally important part of Android

and um and I think it's an advantage in

this world while things are moving fast.

From a Google perspective, of course,

Google competes with some of those

companies and I think Google has a

unique position in that it has a full

stack of of innovation that it's worked

on over over a decade from the from

silicon unique silicon in the data

center foundational models all the way

through to the operating system. And we

want to connect those things in ways

that are powerful and that help

consumers live uh live better lives.

That that's what we're doing. In fact,

recently we announced something called

Gemini Intelligence. Gemini Intelligence

is the best Gemini experience available

on the most premium Android devices. So

take a Samsung device or Pixel device

and that's really where you can

experience the best of that entire

stack. Do you think being open source

and being able to let users choose and

select what their agent will be will

give you guys longer term advantage?

Because I do think there's folks say

that at some point there's going to be

some shake out because we're not going

to need necessarily

every big LLM like at some point people

are going to financially we heard it

from the cerebras CEO last night that

people are going to select kind of what

they need and why.

>> I think that competition is good. Um and

I think that it's led to a ton of

innovation. I mean, look at all the

change we're seeing that's fueled by

everyone competing, which is great. From

an Android perspective, the thing about

Android being open source and being an

open ecosystem. It means that we work

with many, many different partners. We

work with, for example, of course,

Google builds its own hardware with

Pixel devices, but we also work with

Samsung and Motorola and many other

companies. And what that usually leads

to in times of very fast-paced change,

Android does better because that open

nature. you have innovation coming from

everyone and so you got foldable phones,

you've got different types of LLMs,

you've got different types of of of

screen technology and all of that is

great for the consumer and usually

pushes the ecosystem.

>> But it also

>> so yes, it's an advantage. [laughter] I

think so.

>> But it also sounds to me like it's a

it's a risk and it's a a branding risk

because the experience that someone

might get on a nonpremium smartphone or

a non-premium device that uses Android

might be completely different than the

experience that they're getting from one

of those high-end Pixel devices that you

talked about. So, how do you control for

that and how do you sort of protect the

brand in an open source world?

>> Well, it's a great question and in in

what what we do as Google, our role in

in this from an Android perspective is

to do a couple of things. first is to

make sure that the experience has a

certain amount of uh of compatibility.

Meaning if you get the Google Play Store

for example or any store of your choice

and you download apps, they should work.

They should work really well, right? So

that's a baseline set of compatibility

including the new LLM apps that that you

want to get. That's really important

that we create that baseline of

compatibility. But it also means

allowing manufacturers to bring the

latest and greatest technology. you

know, if we if we controlled everything

on our end, you wouldn't have foldable

phones. You wouldn't have flip flip

folds or or open folds and that's pushed

the industry forward. And so that is the

the dance. It's Android being open. You

want to create a great experience. You

also want to let innovation thrive

because that pushes the whole industry

forward.

>> Samir, you know, we've just got about a

minute or so left here and I look at

your background, Bachelor of Computer

Science from UC San Diego. You completed

a program for management development at

Harvard Business School. What's your

view on AI and education and maybe how

education has to evolve?

>> Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I

mean, I think that AI can play a huge

role for the positive in education if we

if we uh embrace it and use it

correctly. Obviously, there's a lot of

ways and a lot of concerns about misuse

of AI in in in education. I think that

the that you know my experience is that

there is not enough access to

highquality education around the world.

And uh if you if you think about for

example learning English um that's not

only a skill that is important if you

want to be bilingual in many countries

it improves your economic standing in

many places if you have if you're

multilingual or you or in particular if

you have learned English. Now how can we

get English language learning for

example to as many people in the world

as possible and there are companies like

open education and open English that are

doing exactly that using AI technology.

That's awesome. that provides wider

access and and I think we're going to

see a number of things like that which

help level the playing field in many

ways.

>> Um Samir, thank you so much. Give us so

much time. We really appreciate it.

[music] Samir Simat, president of the

Android ecosystem joining us here at

Bloomberg Technology.

>> Uh I love the the three different pieces

of wearable technology.

>> It's pretty impressive.

>> Yeah. [laughter] Are you getting

consistent scores, Samir?

>> No.

>> Okay. This is

>> No, I I have to say like the the Whoop

is the the excuse me, the the Ura is the

hardest on me. Um, and uh, but I do I

really love the new health coach with

Google Health. Um, I have like many of

us, I I'm sure we all have our I'm 48.

We all have our ailments. I have a lower

back. It's not great. I told it that. I

gave it my MRI report and it is totally

it has totally tailored my workout.

>> Yeah.

>> To prevent injury and like that's been

awesome.

>> Interesting stuff. Love it. Thank you so

much. I truly appreciate Simerat joining

us.

>> Stay with us. More from [music]

Bloomberg Business Week Daily coming up

after this.

>> You're listening to the Bloomberg

[music]

Business Week Daily podcast. Catch us

live weekday afternoons from 2:00 to

5:00 Eastern.

>> Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto

with the Bloomberg Business App [music]

or watch us live on YouTube.

>> Well, let's continue talking AI and

specifically talk about Mythos. It's the

AI model from Anthropic that has central

banks, financial institutions,

governments around the world freaked

out. It's aimed at finding cyber

security vulnerabilities. Anthropic has

said it was too dangerous to make

available to the general public.

Actually, the co-founder and president

of Anthropic, Daniela Amade, was on

stage here earlier talking about the

model. If you missed any of that, you

can check out that interview at

bloomberg.com and on the terminal.

>> Yeah. And somewhere also seeing

opportunity. We should point out the

technology organization Mozilla, it is

known for Firefox, actually used um

Mythos to find and fix more than 271

vulnerabilities identified in a recent

version of Firefox. We want to get into

that and so much more. Joining us from

the Bloomberg Tech SE seg summit, excuse

me, in San Francisco's Rafie Coran. He

is the chief technology officer of

Mozilla. Welcome, welcome. Nice to have

you.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> You know, as we mentioned, people know

Mosilla as really the organization

behind Firefox. What are the

vulnerabilities though that Mythos

actually identified?

>> Yeah, I mean there's a bunch of them. A

lot of them had to do with being able to

break out of the browser itself and

actually execute code on your machine.

So like actually having JavaScript or

HTML come in and like just load it from

a web page and instruct the browser to

go do other things. So Mythos has been

very helpful for us to actually find

some of these really longstanding old

bugs and actually help us shut them

down. But what I noticed in the in the

blog post that that your team wrote

about this was that quote they wrote

quote we haven't we also haven't seen

any bugs that couldn't have been found

by an elite human researcher. So

was it as is it as powerful as everybody

says it is if if if a if a actual human

being could have identified these

things.

>> Yeah. No, I mean there's just a question

of just like how many elite human

researchers are there in the grand

scheme of things. So like, yeah, these

models are pretty powerful and they're

allowing us to do what like thousands of

these researchers could do instead of

just like six of them.

>> So would you have been able to identify

these with your own team?

>> We have a really good team. I think in

the fullness of time, yes, but like

allowing us to like rapidly accelerate

and just close out a bunch of stuff that

we didn't even know about.

>> So should we be freaked out about this

tech?

>> Yes. I actually think we should be. I

think we can like we'll be getting to a

world like once everything settles down

where things could actually be more

secure but like we're living in this

like intermediary zone. is the reason

why we should be scared because if

mythos is in the wrong hands they could

go to you know your bank and say uh okay

identify the vulnerabilities in you know

Rob's account and then

>> they get access to your money

>> the bank the water company the power

company like all the critical

infrastructure of the world like I

actually have faith that like internet

folks will figure this out like we're

used to patching things and deploying at

scale like heart bleed when SSL had

problems

>> but I don't think my bank knows how to

do it like you said I don't think my

power company knows how to do But those

are like the other pieces of critical

infrastructure that I'm really worried

about.

>> I mean, you're CTO. You should tell

those CTO. Okay.

>> So, there are things that are happening.

Why isn't it happening more or is it and

where they're being caught or what?

Like, give us an idea.

>> Yeah. No, I think we need to have

actually a real large scale like Y2K

like effort to actually start closing a

bunch of these critical vulnerabilities.

And you know, many kudos to what

Anthropic is doing, but we need to give

access to more people like we need to

get access to all the open source

providers. We need to get access to all

the database providers and then we need

to fund them to actually start doing the

work. So not only do you need to clean

the bugs up, but then we also need to

start thinking about mitigation. Like

this is actually a large scale. Look,

think about how much work we did for

Y2K. Boards got involved, governments

got involved, insurance got involved. We

haven't kicked all those in yet.

>> Why aren't we doing that yet? Because

this is moving so fast. Is it just Is

that it?

>> That's exactly the problem. I think this

is just moving so fast. like Mythos was

only really given to us in the like in

the in the winter time. It's only been a

couple of months, but the real question

is that open models are catching up. So

like I think it's only 6 to9 to 12

months when all the open models can

start doing what mythos are doing. So we

only actually have a small window of

time. So then how do we get to a point

where you know you're sitting here with

us a year from now?

>> Mythos is going to be old news. Y

>> there's going to be some sort of next

model that is just that much better. How

do you how are you going to be sure that

it's a company that's you know quote

unquote responsible behind it like many

would say anthropic is being with this

roll out maybe too responsible in your

view um but how do you make sure that

it's not a bad actor who has this done

yeah no I mean I think this is actually

where some government intervention might

not be a bad thing like actually making

sure that we put the right investment

into actually getting these things shown

deployed exactly the right people

>> you been to the post office

>> yeah I know 100% like

>> I mean We but we do need to do all this

work across all the efforts. We need to

secure that post office too.

>> I don't disagree with you, but I think

there are many people out there who say

this could be something that maybe the

free market would solve more uh

efficiently than government bureaucracy.

You have experience in in in in

government sort of. So

>> no 100%. I mean

>> politics you have experience.

>> I think the real problem is that public

sector infrastructure is not treated in

the same way. And so like we really need

to figure out how to do the real

investment there. And I don't think it's

purely just maybe a public private

partnership solves that, but I don't

think that's purely a market problem.

>> Rafie, you were the first CTO of the

DNC, the Democratic National um

committee, politics today, we see the

impact social media,

>> some goods, some bad.

>> Sure.

>> Um on politics, what about AI? No, I

mean like I think about this a lot like

we living in this world where we're like

owners not renters on all this

technology like this techn like just

think about your search experience. It

used to be 10 blue links on Google and

now it's one result when I ask a chatbot

and it's a right result for somebody

like is it right result for me? So I

really worry about this world where like

living in someone else's intelligence

all the time what does that actually do

and how we think how we decide how we

buy all those kind of things. Can we

actually get ahead of that and be better

with it?

>> I mean, this is where I really think we

need to figure out how to do open

deployments and open governance. Like

right now, the incentive models are just

such that like there was a whole study

based out of I think University of

Maryland where they just asked a bunch

of these chatbots to help you buy

something and they're vastly weighted

toward sponsored and promoted goods. So

like how do we make sure that they're

really on my side? I need to be able to

go into this, understand it, tweak it,

work with it as opposed to just being

delivered it. So we need to start

working in those kind of lexes. Now

>> you you were talking a little bit about

your family earlier and I'm just

wondering how how you as a CTO

>> and somebody who understands this

technology and the potential downfall

and and pitfalls of it rather you sort

of have that diet that information

technology diet.

>> I mean can I tell you the pros and cons?

>> Like my 10-year-old is vibe coding video

games like they're actually unbelievable

cute and stinky production. They're like

it's [laughter] like the best thing

ever. Um, and this other is an

expression is creativity. My

13-year-old, I got a phone call from a

teacher saying, "I think you use catch

GPD to cheat on an essay." So, like, we

do need to figure out like how we

actually treat people. How do we do

teach critical thinking? Like, that's

the thing that's still missing. And

that's the thing I think we need to

really home in on. It's less about the

tool, it's about that.

>> So, how do you do it though?

>> I think it's asking real questions. I

think it's having lots of conversations.

You know, the pope is in cyclical called

it fasting from AI. So, like we just

need to figure out a way like we need to

teach them this new tech, but we also

need to just monitor and help them like

do productive struggle.

>> Um, we're being told we have one more

question with you and it's Twitter or

Uber.

>> So, go I'm going to say Tim's got to

ask.

>> Yeah. I mean, you were you were at

Uber's advanced technology department.

This was like the precursor to

self-driving cars. It was This

department was killed a few years ago.

The promise was that you would have

driverless cars at at Uber.

the technology as it is today. I mean,

you walk outside of here, there are

Whimos going everywhere, not really in

New York City at this point. Where are

we when it comes to just getting into a

car and it taking us where we need to go

and there's no steering?

>> I mean, it turns out to be a really hard

problem. This is one of the things we

learned, right? It turns out to be a

really hard problem to do generalized

self-driving like to be able to drive

anywhere under any condition, under any

situation like a city-byc city basis. It

seems to be working out like Whimos are

pretty good. You know, I recently

crashed my Tesla under full

self-driving. You did? I did. So, like

the Teslas clearly had problems. We

slammed into the wall at like 30 miles

an hour. Oh my god. And so, like we

there are clearly still problems with

all this technology, but

>> that doesn't sound like full

self-driving.

>> It doesn't sound like full self-driving.

I totally think that the Tesla

technology is not quite ready yet.

Whereas Whimo has been designed to

literally not have a purse in the wheel.

The whole human in the loop version of

self-driving I think is not the right

path that we should be going on and we

should be thinking about just like

actually tackling the real problem head

on.

>> 20 seconds left. What's the question we

should all be asking ourselves in this

environment today?

>> Yeah, I mean the question is like how do

we make sure all these technologies are

deploying are actually on our side not

on someone else's side like I want to

live in a world of 7 billion AGI not

seven AGIS. How do we get there?

>> Ah really interesting Robbie thank you

so much.

>> This was a lot of fun. Thank you.

>> Yeah fun for us too. Robbie Coror and

he's chief technology officer at

Mozilla.

>> Stay with us. More from Bloomberg

Business Week Daily coming up after

this.

>> You're listening to the Bloomberg

Business Week Daily [music] podcast.

Catch us live weekday afternoons from

2:00 to 5:00 Eastern.

>> Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto

[music] with the Bloomberg Business App

or watch us live on YouTube.

Carol Master Stick Life here at

Bloomberg uh technology out here in San

Francisco getting ready to wrap up, but

we have one more important conversation

to bring to you.

>> Yeah, we're very excited to have Katie

Han with us. Uh you know her because

she's a former federal prosecutor. She

was the first female general partner at

Andre Horowitz. Uh she made her name

investigating digital assets before

investing in crypto startups. She's

raised a billion dollars for new new

venture funds. She's also getting ready

to to join Bloomberg's Emily Chang up on

the main stage to talk about where she's

looking when it comes to new

opportunities in tech and she's joining

us on Bloomberg Business Week Daily.

>> We're like eager to pick her brain.

Katie Han is founder and CEO at Von

Ventures. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you

for joining us.

>> Thank you. Welcome to California.

>> Thank you. We love California. Um what

do you when you look at the world

broadly? We're having so many

conversations about AI. We're going to

talk crypto and some other things, but

where do you think about the best

opportunities and where you might want

to commit investing?

>> Well, I think how we think about it is

we've raised a billion dollars in new

funds. Um, and the world looks really

different than four years ago when we

raised our first fund. And it even looks

different than 12 months ago. And what

we're doing and where we're excited to

invest, um, where we're seeing a lot of

opportunities is what I'm calling the

new economy. It's founders that are

building the future of finance, for

example. And obviously digital assets

are a part of that. But we're seeing

kind of three structural shifts right

now that we're keeping a close eye on.

The first structural shift we're seeing

is what I'll call the new plumbing or

the new financial infrastructure. This

is financial infrastructure that's built

for a global world from day one. It's

built for a 24/7 and it's built for a

digital world. So that's the first

structural shift. The second structural

shift is kind of new asset classes

entirely and new markets and it started

as stable coins a new digital form of a

dollar for example but quickly we're

seeing tokenization of stocks of bonds

and of other funds um and so with those

new kind of asset classes also you can

have new markets things like prediction

markets which we can talk about things

like perpetual market um that's getting

a lot of attention ahead of the SpaceX

IPO and then the third structural shift

we're seeing and this is really exciting

and probably the furthest way is what

I'm calling the future of agentic

finance and it is quite simply what does

the world look like when you're building

financial services and products for the

end user who's not a human but the end

user who is an agent or a computer and

that's just kind of a mind-blowing world

what does that look like they don't stop

working by the way uh they're 24/7 so

it's got to be always on

>> is is crypto still though part of the

DNA of the fund

>> absolutely you know we've always said

we're we're looking to back founders who

are building the future of finance and

cryptographic cryptographic primitives

and digital assets are still a huge

piece of that. I mean, stable coins, a

lot of people don't even think of stable

coins as as crypto. Um, but I think they

very much are. So, is the tokenization

of assets, like I said, prediction

markets, but but there's a lot of

synergies between

>> you've had a really strong track record

with stable coin companies. I mean, we

can just go through some of these.

Bridge uh Stripe acquired for $1.1

billion. That was a home run for you

guys. Um, you also invested in the

stable coin company BVNK, sold a

Mastercard for about $1.8 billion. So,

yeah, you know what you're talking about

when it comes to stable coins, but is

that era like are the opportunities

for early stage venture capitalists or

are we past that because of that? It all

depends on how you define early stage,

but I think we're still in the early

innings. You know, actually, I've been

talking about stable coins since 2017. I

mean, I debated Paul Krugman about the

promise of stable coins in 2018. Um, and

he said it was a flash in the pan and

obviously I think u, you know, we're

seeing that it's not. I mean,

Mastercard, the the transaction you just

mentioned, it was the third largest

acquisition in history that company's

ever done.

>> Stable coin is not a a flash in the pan.

I think that's fair to say.

>> Bitcoin right now is under serious

pressure.

>> Having a moment. Yeah, having a moment.

>> We're we're, you know, we're basically

at levels not seen since 2024. really

the

>> well we saw them in February.

>> We did that's what I mean like so

February so like we're down to those

levels.

>> Um but my point is that they haven't it

hasn't participated in the risk on rally

that we've seen. I mean the NASDAQ 100

is up more than 30%.

>> Just since the the end of March

>> Michael Sailor's strategy is selling

just every so little bit of Bitcoin.

What's what's going on right now? I I

logged in X earlier this week and it

seems like people are losing faith.

>> Yeah, I don't think so. I think, look, I

I remember where I was the day Bitcoin

first hit $1,000. I remember where I was

the first day it hit $10,000. And I

remember where I was the day it first

hit $100,000. And I wonder where will I

be when it first hits $200,000. I think

it's just a question of time horizon.

And of course, we're not a hedge fund.

We're not trading in and out of of these

assets. We are a long-term venture

investor. Um and and you know, we've

made bets in our in our first fund in

Bitcoin, for example, and those have

done very well for us. So, I'm still a

believer in the long-term store of value

story that Bitcoin, it clearly has

product market fit. Another thing I

debated Paul Freriedman on years ago

when it was uh in the billions of

dollars as an asset class and now today

uh that number is in the trillions. And

again, to your point, it does vary

dramatically. But if you would have told

me a few years back has crashed or have

a moment at 65,000 or 64 63,000, I would

have told you, oh my gosh, really

incredible. Um, so it's all about time

horizons and that's why we're taking a

long-term patient view.

>> Katie, is AI sucking some of the

interest out of the retail investors or

retail trade and they're kind of

shifting their their attention?

>> Yeah. Well, you know, one of the

interesting things about the digital

asset [clears throat] space that I've

been really really pleased to see is the

institutional story. And I think that's

the quiet story and that's what's really

changed. So where you have retail

focused is not necessarily always where

you have institutions focused. And it

used to be the case that retail made up

90% of kind of the digital asset

economy, 10% institutions. Now that

number has shifted. It's it's kind of

closer to 20 even 30% institutional. And

I think I would actually say that's why

we're seeing the volatility lessons. I

know it doesn't feel like it from what

you're seeing.

>> It was more tradition like that's right.

It used to be much more retailheavy and

and still retail is a very important

component of the digital asset story,

but it's not the only component. And I

think what we're seeing is we're seeing

a lot of institutional participation.

You're seeing Black Rockck. I mean, you

mentioned Michael Sailor, but the the

reality is that um you know, it was a

very dimminimous amount that he sold and

it's all about the net accumulation.

>> Yeah. I think for some people it was

symbolic because he's such a maximalist.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> I want to talk some personal investments

versus investments in the fund. I mean,

we go through the list of like some of

the hottest companies. You've invested

them in them personally. um Cerebrris,

Anthropic, Anderil, Coinbase, Data

Bricks, Cognition, Figma, Gro, Nico,

Open AAI, SpaceX, the list goes on. How

do you separate sort of your interests

as a as a as an investor personally?

Yep.

>> Versus the fund because I'm sure there

are a lot of people who invested in your

fund who'd say, "Wait, I would love to

have investments on that list."

>> And I think many of them do have

investments on that list. Um the me the

thing that you mentioned, it's very easy

actually. If you're in the future of

finance, if you're in digital assets, um

the new economy, very clearly it goes in

the fund and the fund has the first

opportunity. But if if you're trying out

you you mentioned Neco, you mentioned

Edison, these are great examples. These

are bio companies, these are longevity

companies and they're really harnessing

the power of AI. I mean, if you take a

company um like Edison, it's doing drug

discovery and shrinking the discovery of

medicines using AI. That's clearly not

in our mandate as a fund of the future

of finance. But I'm really lucky being

where I am and being in these um circles

to meet these incredible founders. Neco,

another one, you know, it's coming to

the US. People who are in London have

obviously heard of Neko. That's Daniel

Ek uh one of his one of his new new

ventures,

>> founder of Spotify.

>> Founder of Spotify. It's really exciting

what they're building. Um what he and

Shaq are building with Neco. Um, and

there's a long waiting list in London,

but it's coming to New York, actually,

to your neck of the woods later this

year, and it's going to be under $500.

And you're really talking about

preventative medicine that is

accessible. And that $500 is the

starting point. Obviously, I think that

company, you can talk to them, helps to

bring that price down over time. You're

talking about really harnessing the

power of technology for preventative

medicine for everybody. Uh, not just for

a few people. And I think that's really

powerful. And it's it's not in our fund

mandate, but I'm not going to stick my

head in the sand and not participate in

those. And it's really great for our

founders to be in touch with founders of

the Han Ventures portfolio because

there's actually a lot of synergies

between some of these technologies.

Well, I love that you went there cuz

when it comes to AI, I mean, there's a

lot of obvious things that we think it's

going to do, but I think about the

things that you guys might be investing

in that maybe isn't in the headlines or

the main stories. I mean, where do you

think investors need to be thinking

about how this ultimately impacts our

world?

>> Well, look, there's two areas that our

fund is is really excited about. you

asked if it's sucking all the air out of

digital assets and I would say no

there's so much synergy between the two

frontier technologies uh if you think

about like cryptographic primitives and

you think about AI one of the things I

think about is a commerce right and we

have companies like Stripe Visa

Mastercard Coinbase looking at agentic

commerce platforms and if you think

about I think we can all agree can't we

that agents are going to be doing more

than humans are going to be doing with

the with with these tools right um who

knows about the pace of that who knows

how much work they'll take from humans,

but certainly I think we can all agree

that computers are going to increasingly

take on more and more of our work and

and they're going to need to pay for

things if they're going to be effective.

They're going to need to transact and

they're going to need to operate 24/7

and we don't think they're going to use

the old payment rail to do that, right?

They're going to have to be able to

subscribe to services, right? And and

what are they going to use? We think

they will use technologies like stable

coins. Another really important thing

I'm really excited about, four words,

provenence, identity, privacy,

reputation. Those are so important in

the age of AI. And these are things that

people in cryptography have been working

on for years.

>> Do you have agents acting on your behalf

right now?

>> Yeah, we do at the funds. We do at the

fund. Um well, I'm not going to give

away all of our secret sauce here uh to

folks who are are are looking, but we're

we're experimenting. I think like many

um you know I I still think we're at a

point where we still need a lot of human

oversight and particularly I do have

people who tell me well AI agents can

pick and they're better pickers than

humans. I don't believe that for a

second right now. I still think there's

a really important role for humans to

play especially when you're judging

founders and figuring out what to invest

in. Right.

>> Well Samir Samad over at Android

Ecosystem gave us a great example of how

he was, you know, having an agent help

him get food for an Instacart for a

barbecue that he was having.

>> Sure. Do you want an example? I mean,

we're definitely using it to help us

make sure our pipeline is strong. Are we

seeing everything? Um, definitely my

investment team is using cloud and using

codeex and using other technologies to

make sure we're scanning the full

surface because of course where we're

investing is not just here in Silicon

Valley, it's global. Katie, what you're

seeing and maybe and I think we've

probably got to wrap up soon, but in

terms of dislocation to the economy and

jobs. Yeah.

>> Is it just another technology where

there's going to have to be a little

adjustment period or is it something

more significant based on what you're

seeing?

>> Look, it is transformational technology.

I think what we could debate is the

timeline. Okay.

>> Uh and I think that's really unknown. I

think there are a lot of people that are

prognosticating that that's going to

happen this year. I think that's really

unknown um as to how long that's going

to take. Um, and I still think there's a

really important role for humans to play

here. But I do think it it is something

serious to pay attention to just

socially and economically. Um, and one

of the things I think back to is, you

know, the computer era. Obviously that

replaced a lot of jobs, but it also

created a lot of jobs. So I think

there's truth on both sides and I think

it's something everyone all of us need

to pay close attention to.

>> Great stuff. Um, stay in touch. Thank

you so much as you I love also to going

into the medicine and and longevity

because I think these are things areas

that could be impacted um greatly.

Katie, thank you.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> Have fun on the stage.

>> Good to see you.

>> Take care. You too.

>> Katie Han, founder and CEO over at Han

Adventures.

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