This boy and girl are going to be well

equipped when the time comes to take

their places as worthy members of adult

society.

Aloha y'all. This is Daniel Eisman, the

host of the Breaking Normal podcast,

where my guests are all invited based on

the frequency of synchronicity. All done

in person and all trailblazers and the

breaking of all things normal.

>> I'm ready, as I will ever be, to do this

next Breaking Normal podcast

with Tim O'Donnell. Welcome to the show.

>> Thanks for having me. Um, firstly, this

is our first time meeting, which I'm

stoked about. I usually like have some

weird synchronicity of going way back of

how I'm interviewing the person across

from me, but today this is our first

time actually meeting in person somehow

because you live here in Boulder,

correct?

>> Yep. Been here for 17 years.

>> Wow. Which which part of Boulder do you

live in?

>> I'm up in North Boulder.

>> Okay.

>> Best access to trails and last stoplight

on my bike to get out of town.

>> Perfect spot for a endurance athlete.

Yeah, that's that's what for one thing I

understand you're well known for. Are

you competing mostly in Iron Man's or

triathlons?

>> I focused on the Iron Man distance

triathlon. I am now retired uh at 45. It

was getting harder to keep up with the

uh the younger guys for sure and it was

a great career. So yeah, now we're just

uh fitnessing for life. H that's a that

could be a great title for this uh

episode

>> and for like a book or something.

>> Yeah, I was looking for a book. I need I

need to write a book. So that might

[laughter] that might be it.

>> Fitnessing for life.

>> Yeah,

>> this is was the topic of my last

episode. Uh Dr. Sam Shay was asking me

about like my fitness.

>> Yeah.

>> And I told him how for me it's really

about functional and emphasis on the

fun. Um, and

I like I was kind of making a joke about

how some people like focus on getting so

strong in one area it hurts the like the

rest of their potential for being able

to do things like surf or play with

their children.

>> Yep.

>> That's what I told him that's my goal is

to be able to play with my children as

hard as I can as long as I can.

>> No. And I think endurance athletes are I

mean a great example of that because

they're so used to just going in one

direction, right? And when I started

working with uh Aaron Carson, who's a

well-known strength coach here in

Boulder, um she really got me doing some

lateral movement and things like that.

And

that's that's what I'm it's not about

racing anymore for me. Like my goal is I

have uh three little kids and the boys

have bunk beds and I want to be able to

gorilla press the boys for as long as as

I can up into that top bunk, you know.

>> Um I'm actually curious. I know that's

that's a beautiful sentiment. I am

curious of the details of that. What do

you mean gorilla press?

>> You know, just like press them up and

then like throw them in there.

>> Both at the same time.

>> They call it the elevator. Yeah, they

want to elevate. Oh, no. One at a one at

a time.

>> One at a time. Okay. [laughter] So,

they're like laying.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Like the ultimate warrior,

you know? Just

>> Yep. I know. I have an eight-year-old

daughter, so I'm kind of like, for

instance, I can do a pull-up with her on

my back right now.

>> I could I How long can I do that for

her?

>> Yeah.

>> Um, how old are your children?

>> Uh, eight. My oldest is uh daughter

eight. And then uh the boys are five and

two.

>> Wow. When's your 8-year-old's birthday?

>> Uh it is August 22nd.

>> Okay. Deas is April 7th.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow. Okay. So, we have a lot to talk

about. Fitnessing for life. And you

retired.

>> Yep.

>> Um how long were you competing for?

>> I competed professionally for over 20

years. About 20 years.

>> Wow. In this specific niche of Iron Man

distance.

>> So yeah. So, for the audience that's not

familiar with triathlon, um, broadly

speaking, a triathon is a swim, bike,

run race in that order. And then the

Iron Man distance is a 2.4 mile swim, a

112 mile bike, and then you finish it up

with a marathon at the end. So, 26.2

mile run.

>> Wow. But I had started uh I started in

college, went to the Naval Academy.

That's where I found triathlon through

my older brother, Thomas. We all grew up

swimming. Uh Thomas was a senior my

freshman year at the academy.

>> Okay. and uh he didn't make the swim

team. He tried to walk on, got cut.

>> Okay.

>> So, he found triathlon and then I went

>> was recruited to swim, was on the swim

team, and he made me he like gave me an

order. He's to go try out for the try

team. And he literally came in my room

when I was a freshman and if you're a

plea about one of themies, the upper

class tell you to do something,

>> you do it.

>> Okay.

>> So, he comes in, he's like, "You're

going to try out for the tri team." I'm

like, "No, I'm I'm a swimmer. You

remember you used to be a swimmer?"

[laughter]

>> Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And

>> how many siblings did you grow up with?

>> Uh four. I'm the youngest of four.

>> I'm the oldest of four. Is it What's the

male female?

>> Four and a half years between all of us.

>> Okay.

>> And my uh sister and then two brothers.

So

>> ours is a flip-flop. So three boys,

youngest is a sister about three and a

half years apart.

>> Oh wow. For all four?

>> Yep.

>> Twins in there?

>> No. Uh no no they're all three and a

half years apart. So Dan

>> Oh, three and a half years apart. Yeah.

All four of us are within four and a

half years.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah.

>> So, this is kind of similar in a way.

And I was the oldest. And my youngest

brother, Nathaniel,

>> and I have a theory about this. It's not

I don't think it's my theory, but it

seems like when you grow up, like for

instance, my Nathaniel now has four

boys. Four boys. He has four boys that

are like under seven.

>> I love it.

>> That first of all, the third boy right

now is looks like he's gonna maybe be a

professional athlete because he's always

chasing down these two. He's always like

slightly behind. He's always getting

pushed the hardest.

>> It's And it's so true. I I I really

think there's something to that because,

you know, I was the youngest. I was the

smallest until I I'm I'm the large I was

I'm the tallest now. And

>> same with Nathaniel, my youngest. He's

the tallest.

>> But growing up, I was the worst athlete.

Um my brother and my dad, no one no one

threw punches. Like if we were playing

twoon two, my dad and my brothers, my

dad was going to if we're going to win,

it was going to be because I was playing

hard, you know, like he wasn't just

going to dominate the, you know, the

post.

>> Yeah. [laughter] Wow.

>> So, I think that's a huge part of it

toughens you up, right? Like you just

you you have to take your licks and you

got to keep coming back and um and then

it gives you someone to not only um

mentor off of but to chase. I mean,

Thomas, the brother, that older brother

I talked about, I did everything he did,

and my goal is always to do it a little

bit better. And I remember my freshman

year, go back to high school, I was I

broke out my freshman year of high

school swimming. And he was leading the

lane for this set. It was a hard set,

like, you know, 12 by 300 yards on a

really tight interval. And uh I passed

him because he was miss started missing

the interval.

>> Wow.

>> And I just started trash talking. And

then he just started, you know, beating

the crap out of me and drowning me

underwater. the coach had to come and

grab him off me and I was just laughing

the whole time because I didn't matter.

It didn't matter that I you know he beat

me up but it was like that moment where

like I got you know like and it was it

was it was one of the I one of the most

vivid memories of my sporting career

which is pretty cool.

>> That is amazing. I'm highly compelled by

this and I when I said it it's not only

my theory I'm pretty certain I've read

somewhere about this idea that most of

the world's fastest athletes are the

younger siblings. I I believe it's true.

Yeah. That and January babies, I think,

are supposed to be really good athletes.

I think they're the oldest in their

class.

>> Well, to make this more of a little

synchronous thread, my youngest brother,

Nathaniel, he broke out of swimming his

freshman year of high school and he

became a state champ and the 50-yard

freestyle

>> in Colorado or

>> uh Georgia.

>> In Georgia.

>> Yeah. And then he started getting

recruited to swim almost at every

school, but there's not much scholarship

money like at UC Berkeley and stuff.

>> Oh, yeah. at UT Austin. So he ended up

going to UG because you know the

scholarship money how it's like did

mostly at this point allegedly the

swimmers had very little scholarship

money compared to like the football

team.

>> Yeah. Especially the men's teams.

>> Yeah. And they had like Olympic athletes

at Berkeley. So they're like they were

all the dollars were going to them. They

didn't have much money to give to an

upcoming star.

>> Yeah. It doesn't go down far down the

line.

>> Yeah. Um but he was really freaking fast

and still is. I still think he could

like go out there and compete um in the

sprints of 50 yard and the 100 yard

butterfly.

>> The glory the glory races. I was a

distance swimmer.

>> Yeah. Okay. I was wondering if it was

always endurance for

>> Yeah. So my older not Thomas the but my

other brother Matthew who's 11 months

older than me. He was 100 yard fly state

champion in Massachusetts. Same thing

like really good at those you know the

glory events as I call them. You know

the

>> the events people want to watch. But I

had a um you know if you're not good at

any of the other strokes or you're not

good at sprinting, they put you in the

distance lane and they put me in the

distance lane and that was my future.

>> Wow. And what were you doing in distance

when we were swimming with

>> 1650 for you know anywhere from the 500

to the you know,650

or you know or meters 400 800500 meters.

>> Okay. Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's kind of

interesting. It's like we're like

animers of each other.

>> Did you guys all swim?

>> Yeah. So not if I was very much into

baseball.

>> Okay.

>> But I they I could do both. So I

actually what happened when I started

swimming, same thing. I think it was

sophomore year. The coach tried to

convince my parents that I could like go

to the Olympics if I went all in on this

because I I did qualify for states in

the medley or not the medley in a relay

race and I was pretty freaking fast in

the 53

>> without training for the relative little

training I had.

And you know, maybe my brother had the

same mentality you did because he

actually we were playing baseball. The

two older brothers were playing baseball

and he looked like he was going to be

the best baseball player out of all of

us out of nowhere. He got in a go-kart

accident where he crushed his elbow.

>> Oh no.

>> And then he became an amazing drummer.

He just got because that's all he could

really do at this time.

>> And then he one day something happened

about swimming and it turned out he he's

a little longer and stronger than all of

us already, like relatively. And then he

got into the pool and this guy was a

shark. He broke the state record. I

think that was like held in Georgia for

like 11 years for the 50 yard freestyle.

>> That's awesome.

>> And he swam at UG for a a semester, but

he thought the program was so endurance

>> oriented

>> that he was becoming worse and he

started hating his life.

>> Like and I he couldn't tell if it was

because he was around a bunch of kids

that were like partying and waking up at

5 in the morning to swim all morning. He

wasn't sure what was going on, but he

hated it.

>> Yeah.

>> And he also hated the idea that he

thought he was becoming a worse swimmer

because the way the program was focused.

So he just dropped out of college then.

>> When uh when was this?

>> Oh man. So he's like he's probably

>> I think he's probably 33 now. Okay. So

probably 10 years prior to

>> So he was probably on the he was on the

tail end of that kind of old school

mentality of coaching. And our coaches

our head coach at Navy was the same way.

like um if you were a sprinter, you

didn't really want to be doing a lot of

the sessions. I mean, the first right

back off of, you know, when you're at

themies, you do two your summers broken

up into three blocks. Two of them are

doing Navy training, so you're not

really in the pool.

>> Wow.

>> And the first I think the first set back

was like 30 or 40 200s long course

meters like the first practice back and

he just, you know, just grind them down.

And now like the sprinters, they're so

specific and they're I mean they're

barely swimming where they it's all

about the strength of your start and

your turn.

>> This was his belief.

>> Yeah. And he's totally right. You look

at the way the guy those guys train now

and they're they're way faster now,

right? I mean you know everybody's

breaking 20 seconds in a [snorts]

>> 50 short course yards 50 free.

>> Yeah.

>> Um

>> they're not even breathing. It's like

it's such a cool I love the race because

like you don't have to breathe.

>> Yeah.

>> It's like a one breath race.

>> Yeah. I wish I could have done that,

man. [laughter]

Well, it's an interesting thing like the

fast twitch versus I don't know if you

like how do you classify someone is it

white muscle fibers?

>> Yeah. Um I don't I don't know my ratio

but I'm definitely a slow twitch guy and

even like my triathon career I started

in Olympic distance racing. I was on the

national team, you know, I was trying to

go to the Olympics and that's a two-hour

race. Um it's a 1500 meter swim, 40k

bike and 10k run.

>> And even that I knew I knew my future

was in Iron Man. I knew I knew I was

kind of that u I wasn't a thoroughb

bread. I was more of a like a workhorse

of Clydesdale. So

>> my my last name is Eisenman, which means

iron man.

>> I didn't know that

>> in German. Um just to make it weirder,

>> Germans love triathlon too [laughter] by

the way. They that sport is huge in in

Germany. I like so I have put myself in

the category of a fast twitcher because

I I'm not sure if I'm victimizing myself

to a belief but when I think about it

does anyone ever win the longest race

and the shortest race in the Olympics

whether it's swimming or running? Is

that ever been done? It just doesn't

seem like it's done. It's done.

>> Yeah.

>> So do you like what's your belief? Do is

this a genetic pre like what is this

what we're born into? Should we just

>> own what we are? I don't know. I I

vaguely recall someone telling me or

reading that you can switch

from you can switch one of the ways

between fast and slow but you can't

switch the other way.

>> Okay.

>> So maybe you can convert fast to slow

but you can't convert slow to fast.

>> That would make sense.

>> So I think there is definitely a genetic

uh component to that for sure.

>> Yeah. just to me it seems like one

because I'm a real big believer that our

beliefs can shape our reality in a lot

of ways

>> and but this one seems to be like this

might be something we want to own like

if you know you're a fast twitch athlete

maybe focus there and I look at my dogs

too like I have two pit bulls they're

extremely fast twitch but they're not

going to outrun

>> um a long race I could out run them long

race

>> yeah we have a French bulldog and uh he

can go pretty fast he can hit 50 or 60

miles an hour but then he's just lies

>> [laughter]

>> You know, he just literally lies down.

>> You said 50 or 60.

>> No. 15 or 16 miles an hour. No. Yeah.

What kind of [laughter]

Who's your breeder?

[laughter]

>> Oh man. Um, well, what is, you know,

this is the first time we're meeting and

I could like probably ask so many

personal questions, but I am curious

like is what's like most relevant to you

right now in in your world that you want

people to know about?

Yeah, really it's it's

sharing my story as I transitioned from

racing and I've you know as I've

transitioned I've gotten into high high

impact speaking.

>> High impact speaking. Okay.

>> Yeah. And um that's that's what I'm

focused on. that's my passion

and um it all stems back from the that

you know the heart issue that I had in

in 2021 and how that changed my life and

my career and and how I've moved on from

that and um

>> what happened with the heart issue in 20

>> so in 2021 I had a widowmaker heart

attack during a race.

>> Wow.

>> And uh

>> Wow. it. I finished the race, kept

going. You know, I was I was towards the

front of the pack and right in the mix.

Uh, and I started getting those classic

feelings, this the spreading ch um pain

across your chest, the shooting pain

down your left arm and jaw. And I looked

down at my Garmin and I'm going almost

30 miles an hour. And thought, there's

no way you're having a heart attack

right now. Just suck it up and, you

know, keep keep fighting, keep racing.

And and I did that and I did the run and

just it got worse and worse after I

finished the race and they rushed me to

the hospital and you troponent was

through the roof and they finally couple

hours after I've been there and figured

out what's going on that I had a

complete block of my L

uh 12% survival rate on that particular

um heart attack and things got real at

that point.

>> How old were you at that point? Uh geez,

I was 40.

>> Wow.

>> Gosh.

>> So yeah, I mean the comeback from that,

like that path back and trying to get

back to the Iron Man World Championship

and then of course um you know the idea

that fitness isn't health. Those are the

two things I'm really trying to share

with the world.

>> That fitness isn't health.

>> Isn't health. Yeah,

>> man. Okay. So I this is I'm excited to

be learning about this story with you.

So, you were in like in the midst of

your career, in the midst of a race, had

a heart attack and finished the race.

>> Yep.

>> That part I'm trying to understand.

>> Yeah. So, I'll rewind a little bit too.

Um 2019 at the Iron Man World

Championship. I started the Iron Man

World Championships in which is in Kona,

Hawaii,

>> which is I love Big Island. I love Big

Island.

>> It is so good. I love it's it's magical.

It's absolutely magical. So, in 2019, I

had my best performance there. uh runner

up, first American to ever break eight

hours on that course. I mean, the race

of of my career and at 39 years of age.

So, I was really on the top of, you

know, I was at the top of my game, top

of the world, so to speak. And, you

know, obviously COVID came and slowed

things down. But that race in 2021 was

my chance to race uh those guys that,

you know, I had towed line with in Kona

and try to beat the champion.

Uh so it was it's kind of really it felt

like my career was kind of culminating

but then it

>> it shifted gears quickly.

[sighs]

>> Man, that's that's it's almost it's like

a little scary to even talk about

because it's like I it's it's shocking

that like someone at that peak of their

fitness career

that just happens out of nowhere.

>> Yeah. So

>> that could happen.

>> It could. Yeah. And you you hear about

it. I mean, if if you're if you're

paying attention, if your eyes and ears

are open, it it's not uncommon. It's not

frequent, but there are a lot of cases

of, you know, guys my age that are in

great fitness that either, you know, for

their own uh shortcomings or their

doctor, their primary care, whoever they

are, they don't they don't they don't

catch it. And even even me, I um earlier

the year prior, I had I've been having

signs and symptoms of of an issue and I

went You did?

>> I Yeah. I went to to the hospital here

in Boulder and ran.

>> What were the signs that you were

having?

>> I was just kind of that tightness like

in breathing, uh like fluttering of the

heart,

>> um palpitations, things like that. And

so I went I talked to my primary care.

is like he's like I know you don't want

to hear this but you got to go you got

to go see cardiologists cuz you know

when you're in it you know you're trying

to train and you're you're so focused on

your racing that's all you don't want

something to get in the way of that even

if it's your health

>> and you kind of have the blinders on.

>> Yeah.

>> Um but I went and we ran they ran tests

and they said oh no you know there's

some there's some uh calcified plaque

but it's not that much. Um yeah you're

you're fit you're healthy. They didn't

kind of didn't think too much of it.

>> This was prior to this happening.

>> Prior. Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Knowing what you know about this now,

what do you think there's like a test or

something you recommend or what do you

recommend for

>> 100% I I recommend the clearly scan for

clearly. Yes. C L E R L Y.

>> Okay.

>> And it's a um it's a CT angagram

basically with contrast. And the really

the great thing about it is you can um

identify the different types of plaque.

So the unstable plaque, that's what

ruptures and clogs your artery

instantaneously and shuts your lights

off. Um the calcified plaque is what

builds up over time. It slows down blood

flow, but can be monitored and can be

dealt with. And with the Clearly Scan,

you're not just getting a calcium score.

You're actually seeing what's the the

makeup of the plaque inside my arteries.

if there's any. And then you're also

seeing um with the the AI algorithms

that they have um you're getting a

predictive model on your chances of

either having an event, a cardiac event,

or in my case having another. So that

was really what helped me get back to

racing after the fact. It gave me the

confidence to

>> to get back at it because I could see

the information. The further away you

are from the information,

>> the harder it is to really grasp, to get

a hold of. And I had to put myself in

it. I had to take I had honestly, you

know, with the help of um uh I don't

know if you know Dr. Dave Tusk at Cloud

Medical.

>> I do. I do. I appreciate him because he

I loved interviewing him.

>> Oh, you had him on the show.

>> Yep.

>> And I got an order today where someone

for our tri vitamins where it seems he's

recommending the bison liver plus heart.

Yeah.

>> To patients.

>> I just love that. I love that. He's a

pretty dialed in guy.

>> He is. Yeah. [laughter]

>> Yeah. Um he really is. See I actually

called him when I was having my heart

attack

>> and oh after the race after the race and

this is late at night on a weekend and

he picked up and said hey Tio what's up

>> and you know told him what was happening

he said take two aspirin and get to the

hospital right now.

>> So I mean imagine that how many people

can call their primary care doc

>> and uh have them you know that kind of

support

>> man. Um,

>> but with him, you know, with his help,

we were able to.

>> So, you had not gone to the hospital

before calling.

>> No, I was still I was trying to I was

trying to go to the after race party.

>> All right. I just Yeah, that So, that's

also just a little bit of a mind bomb.

It's like someone can have a heart

attack like that and then just keep

functioning or just are you just

extremely rare or

>> what you Yeah. Well, I mean, I do have

one of the benefits of all the training

was um you get these ancillary vessels

that pop off your arteries that kind of

help move blood around blockages.

>> Okay.

>> Um but honestly, I'm think I'm just

stubborn, you know? I just like trying

to I'm like, "No, I want to you know,

you feel bad after a race. You don't

feel good. You don't feel good during a

race." And it you try to shrug it off,

but I you know, I realized it was

getting to the point where like this

isn't normal postra. This isn't normal

postra feeling. this is something

different.

>> That's a kind of a there's a lot of

synchronicities throughout this

conversation. Then you called Dr. David

and then you went to the hospital where

in Kona.

>> No, this was in Miami. This race, it was

on the Homestead Speedway, the NASCAR

track.

>> Okay.

>> So, the uh the bike was like 17 laps

around the the track and then the run, I

don't know, however many was. Um

>> all within the Wow, what a what's that

event called? It's called uh now it's

called Clash Miami. At the time it was

called um Challenge Miami.

>> Okay.

>> But yeah, it's a really fun race. Great

venue. [laughter]

>> And what hospital did you go to? Do you

remember?

>> So they took me to the Homestead

Hospital because it's right down the

street. Okay.

>> Took me 90 minutes to get an IV.

>> They

like lucky I didn't, you know, I made it

out of there, but they didn't have

cardiac um services, so they had to send

me to

Jackson South.

>> Jackson. Jack. Yep. I'm familiar with

that. I once took my brother there. I

was born in Miami and I took my brother

there once after a spider bite coming

flying in from um Panama.

>> It was very clear he needed medical

attention.

>> Wow, that's crazy.

>> Went to Jackson Memorial.

>> Yeah, a great cardiology department

there.

>> Yeah. Okay. Uh and then what what they

what happens from there? Um well uh I

mean if you go right into that moment um

it took a little while for the team to

come in and uh the cardiologists

put the biggest scent they had in. They

sucked out all the you know the

>> procedure was

>> procedure. Yeah. They brought me in.

They said Tim we think you're

dehydrated. This will be real quick. We

just want to check. And then it was not

quick. Like I was Yeah. You could feel

them moving around inside your chest. It

was really weird. But yeah, the doc

said, "Um, you're going to be okay. We

put the largest stent we have inside

your chest and you're going to need to

find a new career."

Literally the first thing. [sighs]

>> Wow. Um, so the logistics of that, they

were going to check you out and then

they said, "We're going to do a surgery

on you now."

>> Yeah. They said, "We're going to bring

you to the Kath lab." And

>> what's that surgery called? My mom My

mom used to work in cardiac surgery.

>> I believe it's just an angio.

>> Yeah. Um they put basically put a

catheter in your um they go either

through your arm or through your uh

thigh.

>> Wow. And where was your family did

during this time?

>> I was solo every So my uh my middle son

Finn was eight weeks old at the time.

>> Oh my gracious.

>> And so my wife Renie, who by the way is

three-time Iron Man world champion. Like

she's she's a legend. What's that?

Renie. Miranda. Mind

>> Carfrey. Okay.

>> Yeah. She's a legend in the sport.

>> Okay. Um, she was at home with our

daughter Isabelle and and little 8week

old Finn

and that's where I'm running. I'm in the

run. I'm having a heart attack. I'm

running as hard as I can. I don't feel

like I'm moving anywhere. But I was in

11th place. Um, I was in like fifth or

sixth and then I got off the I started

to get like lose, you know, my kind

where I was and I just got off the bike.

I thought I was done the ride and I

still had another lap to go. Um, so you

know, a bunch of guys passed me, got

back on the bike in 11th, and I held my

position, but I was trying to get top 10

because that the money goes, they pay

top 10.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. I got an 8week old baby. I got to

>> I left my wife and two kids at home.

>> And wow, you know, they bring home a

paycheck, bud.

>> And I was so mad at myself. I crossed

that line. I was like,

>> what place were you?

>> I was 11th.

>> Wow. Wow.

>> And how much money does 10th place pay

in?

>> I don't remember. It's not much.

Yeah, in triathon you make your money

off of uh your partners um your sponsors

and then um the big races. The big races

have bigger prize money.

>> What an event. Did you like call your

wife during that time? Like I guess

they're going to put a stent in me.

>> Yeah, I called her. Uh she actually told

me to call Dave. So, I called her and

she could tell I wasn't feeling right.

And um so she had me call Dave and then

I called her after the fact and uh at

the recovery room just kind of, you

know, lying there by herself just trying

to process what just happened.

Wow. Was she here in Boulder or

>> H? She was here in Boulder. Yeah.

>> Wow.

That's amazing. That's a crazy story.

>> Yeah. So,

>> and then from there you started

competing again.

>> I did. I I made the decision. Well, I

made it with with my wife Renie. Um I

wanted my my reasons were different. I

wasn't I was no longer trying to win the

world championship, but I didn't want

that to be the end of my story in the

sport.

And so I found myself, you know, I

chatted with Renie and she said, "Okay,

if if you find the best cardiologist in

the world and they say it's okay that

you're not going to cause more damage or

put yourself in your life at at risk,

then then go for it." And I did that. I

flew out to Boston, went to Mass

General, saw Dr. Aaron Baggish ran a

bunch of tests and he said, "Tim, your

um your heart's strong. The stent is

strong." Uh I was really lucky, too. My

scar tissue was minimal for how long? I

mean, I was under blockage for like nine

hours or something crazy. And my scar

tissue was was really minimal. And you

think about how a heart pumps, it kind

of almost rings as part of the pumping

motion. And if you got scar tissue, that

whole motion gets disrupted.

makes it hard to pump blood through your

body. Makes it hard to do an Iron Man,

at least to do one well. And uh but

luckily that scar tissue is minimum. And

he said, "Tim, the only thing holding

you back is yourself."

>> Wow. Wow. What a that shout out to that

cardiologist.

>> Uh what was his name again?

>> Uh Dr. Aaron Bagish.

>> And then what was your the person in

Jackson Memorial? Do you know that

doctor's name? I can't remember his name

>> because they sound like they did a good

job.

>> Did a great job. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, his

bedside manner could have been better,

but he did a great job.

>> Great doctor.

>> Yeah. My mom was like cuz

[clears throat] I I took the MCATs. I

was premed in medical school and she was

so wanting me to become a cardiac

surgeon because she thought these guys

were like the heroes.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And she would talk about all their

different personalities and

>> Wow. I That's an amazing story. The book

does sound like it's up your alley

fitnessing for life. So what's the

difference now? Now now like when how

you train versus then

and and I kind of am curious once the

cardiologist gave you that go-ahad you

went fullon in competition and a

different attitude.

>> It 100% different attitude. Uh I

wouldn't say fullon. It took me a long

mental piece took a long time. You know

I didn't beginning I didn't want to go

out and ride or run by myself out of

fear of something happening.

um you know you're constantly

questioning should I be doing this? Why

am I doing this? Is this good for me?

And so you have to work

>> your answers to those like why were you

doing this?

>> Um

so I could keep sharing the story. Yeah.

And I mean um I built my career on

resilience and you know the first world

championship I went to I dropped out and

I looked at myself in the mirror on that

day. At that night, I went back to my

hotel room and I I just stared at myself

in the mirror for I don't know 10 or 15

minutes and I said, "You're never going

to drop out of a race again." And I Wow.

>> and I made that pack with myself.

>> Wow.

>> And I should have put a little caveat

unless there's some major medical

emergency happening.

>> You stuck to it.

>> Yeah. Um

>> that's such an interesting caveat

because I once had a prayer in a mirror

that definitely changed the course of my

life and it was a commitment.

>> Yeah. of sorts.

>> Well, when you take the options off the

table, what else is there? You know,

that's commitment, right? Commitment is

taking the other options off the table.

>> See, and that's that that's a

fascinating topic how like you you took

that to the edge,

>> commitment to the edge

>> in hindsight, not the best idea,

>> but yeah, I mean, um I love the sport.

It it it is a big part of who I am, my

identity. Um,

but I just I really wanted to complete

my chapter of of life there. And I felt

like that was if it wasn't going to be

detrimental, that's the way I wanted it

to kind of finish. And I had I mean, I

had a solid race. I wasn't in great

shape. I It was a clearly scan that

summer. Kon is in October. So the summer

of 22, I did the Clearly scan and then I

went fullon, but until then, I was like,

the trepidation was real. And so I wish

I had done that six months earlier. So I

wasn't in the best shape. Still a top

American one more time at 42 years of

age after a heart attack. Um I think I

had my second or third fastest time ever

at that race. Um, wow.

>> But coming down that finish line, it was

it was the greatest

that was the greatest finish line I've

had at that despite the podiums and and

you know, amazing performances. Just

sharing that, celebrating the sport,

celebrating being there, celebrating the

people that helped me get there, the

entire sport. It was it was a

celebration and uh so glad I did it. you

know, results aside, it was,

you know, something bigger at that

point.

>> And that was in Kona. That's awesome.

>> That was that was amazing. Oh, yeah.

Wow. Now, I would be remiss not to ask

because I've interviewed col uh

cardiologists on this show before. And

if I'm doing the dates right, this may

have been the time when

>> all the vaccine things were happening.

>> 100%. Is there any correlation or do you

have any connection with any?

>> So, um it's interesting you say that

because uh I went on uh Rich Roll's

podcast um

>> Oh, man.

>> probably 2023 we talked about this.

>> Okay. And

there were so many comments on his, oh

yeah, Tim was vaccinated and uh he got

the shot and people were people that I

know and love were texting me like,

"Hey, uh here's this like the detox

programs and stuff." And I was

I'm unvaccinated. I didn't um I knew my

luckily my wife and her family are very

forward in all of this stuff. And before

the world knew, we were part of the

group that knew already, you know. And

um

so I do I personally I'm not a doctor.

I'm not a cardiologist, but I do think

it was COVID related.

>> What happened with you?

>> I think uh the you have the plaque the

plaque was there, but I do think um the

rupture of the inner lining of the

artery, the endthelial damage, I think

that was caused by an inflammation.

So

>> of actually like catching co.

>> So we came back from Australia. My

wife's from Australia. We go there. We

would go there every year to train.

>> Which part of Australia?

>> She's from Brisbane.

>> Okay. So

>> it's gorgeous. I love that place.

>> I love Byron Bay a lot.

>> Yeah. Oh yeah. We uh we um vacationed

there last time we were there. So cool.

Have you been up to Sunshine Coast?

>> A little bit. I got stuck in Byron Bay.

Yeah.

>> I surf and I got stuck there.

>> Yeah, you could go.

>> Yeah. [laughter] I was like I was

wanting to go to New Zealand and

everything. I was like I'm just I'm good

here.

>> Well, that's where all like [laughter]

Jack Johnson and Ben Harper and all

those guys, they all just hang out there

and surf too.

>> Yeah, Byron Bay.

>> It's funny you say Ben Harper. He's like

one he's like my both of those guys are

just heroes of mine, but especially Ben

Harper as an

>> I love Yeah, he's amazing.

>> Yeah.

>> Did you happen to see him play at the

Mackie Theater like a few years ago?

>> Couple years ago. The blue was it the

blues or jazz?

>> Yeah, the blues bird fest or whatever.

>> Yeah, bluebird. You were there at that?

>> Yeah, we My wife and I were Yeah,

>> I went there. I cried my eyes out during

that show. Something hit me.

>> So good.

>> That guy is so full of like channeling

real emotions. I just got I was like I

got walked in like, "Oh, it's like a sit

down show." And I'm like, "Wow." And

he's sitting down. At first I had like

my I'm like, "What's going on here?"

>> Yeah. Yeah. Like 10 minutes later, I'm

like balling my eyes out [laughter] like

it was one of the best shows I've ever

seen,

>> dude. Um our wedding our our first dance

was forever.

>> Oh, wow.

>> Wow.

>> He's awesome.

>> Okay. All [laughter] right. So,

>> so but yeah, so we were coming back from

Australia of like end of February 2020.

>> Okay.

>> So, CO was about to hit hard in the US.

It was already more prevalent than

Australia.

>> Okay.

>> And um

>> we were in customs in San Fran or LA and

there's all the flights from Asia are

landing with we're all there like a

sardine can. I we hear people are

hacking all over the place

>> and my wife and I are like no.

>> And like 3 days later we were down and

out. We were in bed for a couple days

and you know we just we were like oh we

got sick and we didn't have any idea

about long COVID or myocarditis right um

so after being in bed for like three or

four days what do you do you get back up

and you get right back into training

>> and I I remember like

um doing a flip turn in the pool and

starting to get these like uh like

fluttering in my chest and then all of a

sudden it was hard to

>> hold my breath on my push offs the wall

you know like I was like struggling to

get to the flags.

>> And it kind of it went followed me

through the year until I finally the

back half of that year went and you know

did ran all those tests. But I do I I I

honestly think obviously the plaque is

there. It's going to rupture at some

point. But I do think that that

inflammation um might have kind of

triggered something.

And I also imagine that your fitness

level had something to do with you not

only being able to finish the race but

be here.

>> 100%. Yeah. So there is some belief that

uh a lot of endurance training can cause

plaque buildup specifically in the L. um

this there hasn't been enough data to to

you know really

correlate it I guess um or I should say

have it as a cause but there is some

data pointing to the fact that endurance

training might create that plaque but on

the flip side my fitness helped me move

blood around the block so

>> Wow it's a big part of it yeah

>> it reminds me my youngest brother the

peak of his um fitness fitness level too

in swimming probably endurance-wise

especially he went he had a surgery done

on his uh sternum he had like a huge dip

in his chest I'm not sure if you've ever

seen this

>> yeah we had a guy on my swim team in

high school that had one of those

>> I'm like is there like there have you

heard of Mar fans

>> there's like a thing where you're like a

long athlete and like Michael Phelps he

it's like a classic build of someone

that has Mar fans that's like longer

arms and [snorts] they're like more

prone to a certain heart condition and

and I don't know if it has any

correlation with this dip in her chest.

But he got this thing fixed and it was

supposed to be a pretty pretty simple

thing.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And uh my mom, as I mentioned, she was

like a nurse in cardiac surgery for a

long time. And when we were visiting him

in his recovery, my mom, man, she she

went into that mama bear mode. And there

was something wrong. And there was

something wrong with the inflammation in

his body. um and something wrong with uh

the way he was speaking that he was

still functioning and everything and

talking to us, but my mom knew something

was off. And she was like, "Oh yeah, we

need to do a test on him. There's like

something weird like we need to do a

hemoglobin test or something.

>> Um there's something strange going on."

They're like, "No, no, it's just very

normal. You know, he's functioning

fine." And my mom got real into beast

mode and forced them to do this test.

Next thing we know, like all the major

surgeons are rushing him to the ICU

because allegedly he's bleeding out

internally. Like one of the things was

open the internal sutures.

>> Are you serious?

>> And the only the thing was that no one

they were saying like there's no other

person could have been functioning like

your son was like what kind of athlete

is this kid? And he we were at that time

we were all doing and he was really a

shark at like holding our breaths and

holding our breath and swimming.

>> Yeah.

>> And um it was it's like kind of that

like that almost like a justosition.

It's like being that in shape how it has

a little danger to it in these type of

situations.

>> Yeah.

>> Um because no only my mom like they

there's a kind of theory if my mom

didn't force that test he may have died

like an hour later. He was like

literally bleeding out. no hemoglobin

and it almost sounds like you wanting to

go to that party after having a heart

attack. [laughter and gasps]

>> No joke, we're we're like at the um

we're at the the the guy that owns a

race. He had a you know, one of those

really fancy RV trailers on the on the

racetrack.

>> He had like a Macallen 25 like last week

sitting by me and I'm like lying down

inside of his like the the camper like I

can't drink it, Bill. [laughter]

>> Wow. Wow.

>> I should have. It's a blood thinner,

right?

Wow. Yeah, that is interesting how the

two aspirin thing was I mean that just

seems like advice across the boards in

that situation.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. There are simple things and and

you know going back to our conversation

earlier about you know what do you want

to do and and and being able to impact

people outside the sport. I mean, I've

in these past several years, I I

continually get people reaching out um

you know, thanking me for helping them

notice the signs and symptoms and be be

aware and and a reminder that you know,

fit a lot of fit guys think they're

impervious, right? But just because

you're fit, you're not impervious to

things in life that happen. and being

being able to, you know, have a positive

impact on others and whether it's

intervention or or whatnot. Um, it's

been been awesome.

>> Yeah. Are you how are you doing that?

Like when you say high impact speaking,

are you go doing speaking currently? uh

mainly uh like uh I I speak more not the

heart attack piece is a big part of it

but it's more of um redefining the

champion and you know let helping people

understand it's the mindset it's not the

medals you earn

>> and that whole process you know I have a

built forward process as I call it and

sharing that process with them it's uh

yeah

>> are you coaching people through

>> we do uh we do co we have a triathon

coaching uh group yeah salty bears

racing Okay.

>> Is our coaching group. Yeah, we have my

wife and I lead it. We have a couple

assistant coaches

>> and it's a great way for us to to, you

know, stay connected to the sport.

>> Um, I have some preloaded popcorn

questions for you that I think it'll be

like they're kind of meant to be

answered like in a minute or so.

>> Um, but how do people follow this

ongoing journey story of yours? Like

what's the best way to follow you and or

reach out to you?

>> Yeah. Uh, Instagram. Instagram

definitely the best way or LinkedIn. All

right, we'll put the links to that in

the description.

>> But is it Tim O'Donnell? Is that

>> uh Yeah, Tio. If you if you search my

name, you'll find it, but T0 in Try.

>> Okay.

>> I was trying to be creative [laughter]

and people are like Tony.

What?

>> All right. All right. Awesome.

>> No points for creativity on Instagram

handles. Just use your name. [laughter]

>> All right. Here we go. Here we go. These

are fun. I kind of like them and I think

these are good. [snorts] All right.

What's the moment in your career that

looked like success but actually almost

broke you?

>> Oh man, that's a good question. No one

has ever asked me that.

Um,

probably my first podium at the World

Championships

because

when you get on the podium, you either

get too confident because you think

you're almost there and or you get so

anxious to get there to the top that you

overtrain. So, like being able to figure

that out after that first podium and to,

you know, not get not get broken from

either one of those options.

>> Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah,

that's like good. That's this is his

idea. If he's in a minute or less, that

was a good answer. What do amateurs

obsess over that elite athletes mostly

ignore?

>> Everything. [laughter] I mean, it's

crazy. You look at the best guys in the

world right now, they like they're

eating pizza. I mean, they're young.

they like they train hard. They have

coaches that do a lot of the data for

them. Um but they just train hard and

have a good time. Whereas um a lot of

the age group athletes who I love and I

want to help um they can get caught up

in the details too much. You know, they

get um the little 1%s. Yes, you need to

focus on those, but it it's not going to

trump just consistent training.

Consistent training with a plan like

start there. nail that then worry about

the other details.

>> You're reminding me of a conversation.

Um, we've got the honor to interview uh

Leard Hamilton a few times.

>> Not for the podcast, but for my YouTube

channel I did with my brothers called

Raw Bras.

>> And I remember him saying something so

similar was like

people were at this event and they kept

like asking him about, "Oh, you eat

that? Oh, you do this, you do." He's

like, "I don't worry about the things I

do every once in a while." He's like,

"You know what though? I'll tell you, my

pillow is the best pillow in the world.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm concerned about the things I do

every day.

>> Yeah.

>> And it was just like such like a

childish I I I kind of give him like the

honor of one of the oldest childs that I

oldest children that I know. And I'm

trying to be that too. So it's like an

ultimate compliment.

>> Well, I mean like my wife is the same

thing. Like people ask her like, "Oh,

recovery like do you spend like eight

hours doing this or you know like all

these things?" She's like, "Well, how's

your sleep?" And and like don't

sacrifice your sleep to get in recovery

boots or whatever. Sleep.

>> [clears throat]

>> Y that's it's funny too you're running

he I remember him saying now you're I'm

not having a whole reminiscence of this

conversation I remember someone asking

him about sleep um about and he had the

funniest answer he's like oh no I don't

he's I don't believe in sleep problems

um he's like I I if I play hard enough I

I go to sleep

>> if I if you're just not playing hard

enough that was like he had this another

>> I then you y'all are probably into this

like rare category of people that are

overtraining like know people that are

overtrained.

>> Oh yeah,

>> that's a that's a rare

>> that's a big part of the our sport and

it's a big problem too.

>> Yeah.

>> All right. Number three. What did

becoming a father immediately make you

better at?

>> Time management for sure. [laughter]

Uh it it made me um really be able to

focus on priorities.

Yeah. And we my wife and I were seven

2017 when Isabelle was born. We were

both uh burnt on the edge of being

burned out. You know, we had done a lot

in the sport already. You know, we've

been racing a long time and it it just

we just had this kind of reset and we

said, "You know what? We're going to

make uh 2018. We're going to make this

year about uh experiences together as a

family." And we flew everywhere. We flew

around the world with that little baby.

>> Oh, nice.

>> And it was like it was our favorite year

of racing. And it it you know you're

to to stay on top of something um to be

your best you need a why, right? But a

lot of people get stuck on a why that

may not be their why anymore.

>> So that ability to shift your why,

recognize it, and then let that fuel

you. Uh that was that probably, you

know, other than having Isabelle, that

was one of the greatest things to come

out of becoming a father.

Now, that makes me want to ask, um, out

of all places you've traveled, not um,

where do you think the healthiest

places? Oh, man, that's a good question.

Not Australia. Um, they're kind of like

little America in terms of uh, food

quality and things like that. [laughter]

>> Australia is a crazy. Oh man, I

I'm I'm I don't want to pinpoint a

place, but I feel like this more the

simpler the place is, the better, you

know? Like I'm imagining like Thailand

like getting uh food made on a like a

from a hut on the beach like calm coming

out, you know, like everything's you're

close to the source. Uh simple.

Yeah,

>> that's a good imagination. [laughter] My

mouth started watering. Um, okay.

Oh, wow. I see my thing got lost. I was

about to ask you a disc golfing

question, but that was like my

interview.

>> I won't have a good answer, but let's

let's throw it [laughter] in there.

>> Um, all right. If um

[sighs and gasps]

if someone's having like a problem with

discipline,

what actually keeps you showing up?

Yeah, it's a choice. I don't think

there's a there's a magic answer. I

mean, you just have to be willing to

make the choice. It's true. It's ch

little choices

and we get we get that all the time with

our athletes too by the way and just

like athletes in general like how do you

why do you get out of bed or like how do

you get out of bed when the alarm goes

off because you're make the choice to

get out of bed you know remember diving

in the pool when you were a kid like

that was the hardest part of the session

right

>> now I must like live for that I live

right next to the creek I just like so

understand the benefits of

>> exhil Exhilarating myself with cold,

fresh water.

>> Oh my. Yeah. Yeah. But as a kid, you're

like, "Oh, what am I?" Yeah. You got to

dive in.

>> Yeah.

>> But once you do, you're fine, right?

>> Mhm.

>> Then you forget about it and you move on

and you do and you have a great set.

>> That little choice to dive in.

my brother to keep bringing him into

this conversation when he's kind of like

like he had a career ending question at

one point and it was like why is he

dedicating this much time to swim across

the pool like a millisecond faster than

anyone else.

>> He and no one had an answer for him and

he didn't

and that's kind of when he started

shifting his interest.

>> Yeah,

>> because it Yeah. like that it's a risk

like that 50 yard especially the 100

yard is a kind of a risky thing like

someone can be a better racer slip a

little bit on the board or whatever.

>> Yeah. No, I was watching Lindsay Vaughn

was um one of the races she just did was

on at the gym yesterday and uh you're

looking at the time differentials

between all of them like the entire

field and like they're all so close

and it's just like what like what's the

3/10en of a second difference? I don't I

mean I don't know I don't know the sport

that well, but like you're it's super

fascinating.

>> It is.

>> Lots of good questions here. Here's

another one. What's a training belief

that you held for years that you now

think was wrong?

>> Uh more is more is better. I was I made

my career off of training more and and

the idea of that I was training harder

than everybody else that really fueled

me. And then YouTube came out. And then

you got guys like Lionel Sanders who you

can go and watch him train and he's

literally in tears. He's hurting himself

so much. He's training so hard. He's on

the trainer crying and yelling and

you're like, I am I am not training that

hard, but I can still beat him. So, I

had that mindset shift of, you know

what, it's it's not about like if if you

pride yourself on just like working

harder, there's always someone working

harder. You just don't know it. Um, so

it had to be like, okay, well, I'm just

I know I'm already on I'm on par or

better, and if I just keep keep doing my

thing, um, it's going to stay that way.

>> Awesome. All right. [snorts]

By the way, you should watch go look up

Lionel Sanders.

>> You made me want to like some of his

videos are it's hilarious. But he is

man.

>> What do you think about like the whole

um David Gogggins and and that

mentality? Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm not

sure if I know many people I I I get

very entertained by [snorts] listening

to David Gogggins and such, but and I

think people are concerned about the

mentality, but I don't know many people

taking his mentality on.

>> Yeah. I mean, I think uh

>> that extreme.

>> He's done some crazy stuff. [snorts]

>> Um Oh, he was so I was uh special

operations. He was special warfare. We

were both stationed on the other side of

Coronado, like each side of the base.

So, I would be like riding into work and

he'd be like running, he would run like

20 miles each way,

>> like [laughter]

so I would see him all the time. We were

always going the other way.

Um I mean I um I don't need training

like anything in excess is like

you know doing hard things if if it's

something that you always do is it hard

like it's hard for you or me but is that

the hard thing for you?

>> Like him taking a break might be the

hardest thing for him. Right.

>> Being lazy for like a month might be

like

>> that's a hard thing. [laughter] Yes.

That that'd be a hard thing. It's Yeah,

it's all that's all how it's framed, I

guess. [gasps]

>> All right. What's the quiet cost of

being world class that no one warns you

about?

>> Oh, man.

Quiet cost.

Uh losing your identity. And I see I've

seen it a lot over the years. Athletes

lose their identity. Their identity

becomes their uh medal or their record.

And at some point, we all got to hang up

the sneakers in terms of racing

professionally. And where do you go from

there if that's your identity?

>> So, yeah.

>> Okay. If your kids only learned one

lesson from your career, what would you

hope it is?

>> Don't give up the ship.

Just keep going. I mean, I my family

still shakes their head how I became a

professional athlete. I, you know, I was

a joke in the family. Um, uncoordinated,

not, you know, unathletic,

but I showed up every day

with a with a goal and, um, with a

willingness to enjoy the the journey,

which is a big part. [snorts]

>> A willingness to enjoy the journey. A

willingness to enjoy the journey. That's

an interesting way to say that.

>> Yeah.

What do you I mean you want to say more

about because most people would say you

know the journey is the destination.

>> No catch up with a willingness to enjoy

the journey.

So when you're chasing something, it's

it's easy to lose sight of everything

else.

And at the end of the day,

uh I I have a lot, you know, I know a

lot of my competitors like they want to

win, but they hate losing more. And then

that puts them in this place of

and it's not a healthy place in my

opinion. Um so you got to be willing to

also enjoy the journey.

>> I wonder if that's what was my downfall

for my baseball career. Not saying it's

like a bad thing because I think that

opened up so many things. But I probably

hate I probably hated striking out or

like making an error.

>> Yeah.

>> I probably hated making an error more

than hitting a home run.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It

>> was freaking tough. It was a freaking

tough sport then.

>> Yeah. You you would The low is is worse

than that. Like higher, right? Yeah. And

it was more common. The lows were, you

know, home runs were epic. The

strikeouts were probably a little more

common.

>> Yeah.

And that I think I'd be more I have a

higher mental fortitude for the sport of

baseball now.

>> Yeah.

>> But at that time in my life, I was

really shook by like the anxiety of like

>> I don't I just don't want to strike out

like

>> Yeah. Anyways,

>> do you think that made you strike out

more or less?

>> Um

I I don't think it had much of an effect

on it. It was just like a mental game I

would play on myself before and after

the games.

And there's like a few day like leading

up to the games I would have like kind

of be struggling about like the anxiety

of like potentially messing up versus I

I loved I love doing great. I did I did

I was a great baseball player and I was

always great but I I was probably like

leading up to the game I was more

concerned about the potential errors.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. We you'd have races where you were

the favorite and that was the same

thing. You're like all I can do is lose,

>> you know, like everybody expects me to

win. All I can really do is lose.

[laughter]

>> All right, here's an a very onbrand

question from our conversation. What's

harder, pushing your body past its

limits or knowing when to stop?

>> Uh you knowing when to stop.

Yeah.

And you know there's there's points uh I

tell you as the more you push your body

to the limits or beyond them you know it

it gets harder and harder to do that for

sure. Um so it's probably like they're

probably like inverse like when you're

younger versus when you're older. You

know as you're old older more mature

it's easier to know when to stop.

>> It's harder to put your body.

>> One of those questions where the

question is the answer.

>> Right. Right. [laughter]

>> All right. When motivation disappears

mid race or midlife, what actually takes

over?

When motivation disappears,

uh the why has to take over and it has

to be a good why, right?

That's I mean

I've I've never your motivation is an

interesting thing because it's people

really see it as like this like rah rah

thing.

But it's uh I don't know. It's it's I

see it as more like utilitarian like it

just what's your why and you know how

how you get there

and

>> what's your why

>> now it's it's to to impact other to

share this story impact others beyond

our sport

and always there's always a family too

you know you know my wife and I struggle

because our kids didn't get to see us

particularly her at our heights in the

sport And so now you wonder like you

want to see you want them to know you're

working towards something and that life

isn't just like hanging out. Um so you

know we we want to see we want them to

to see how you know how we live through

life too.

>> All right. And finally if someone is

listening chasing a big goal and feels

behind

>> what would you tell them?

>> Feels behind.

>> Oh man. um

what does feel like how is that going to

help you move forward, right? Like

focusing on that feeling versus focusing

on what can I be doing right now to keep

moving towards that goal. I'd say that's

it. You know, if I look at an Iron Man,

if I'm thinking about the run when I

have, you know, another 80 miles to go

on the bike, that's almost too much to

handle. But if I'm thinking about my

cycling cadence and I'm thinking about

what what I need to do in that moment to

eventually get me to my goal, uh it

becomes more tangible and it's easy to

to get your head around. So just

focusing on the small parts instead of

focusing on I'm feeling like I'm behind

so now I'm not going to do anything to

move me forward.

>> That's um that's a subtle subtle and

very important shift that could be

carried over to so many life

>> Yeah. metaphors.

Appreciate you for all for all the whole

thing here today. I got some gifts for

you if you would you use some of this

stuff that this is the best tallow balm

of

>> man. I'm I'll give it a try.

>> Um that's great for the skin. I know

you're out in the elements as well,

especially if you're in Boulder.

>> So, what's um Tell me the best way to

use this.

>> Um I put it all right. If you're going

to use it like you want to make that

last as long as possible, then I would

put it under my in my face at night

before going to sleep.

>> Okay. But I personally cake it all over

myself, especially if it's sunny.

>> Um, I'll put it I'll use it almost as

like someone who used sunscreen. I would

use it as someone would use deodorant. I

would use it as someone who used hair

gel. I would use it the same way as

someone use a beard a beard oil. I just

use it everywhere. I I feel my like my

skin eats it.

>> Um,

>> that's amazing. Thank you.

>> And for a little more performance stuff,

have you ever used either one of these

products? And would you be interested in

using them?

>> Yeah, I'd love to try them.

>> That is pure bison testicles. Definitely

haven't tried that yet.

>> And this is pure elk velvet antler. So

you've seen probably an elk maybe with

it's velvety when it's velvet state.

>> Um so we work with a supplier in

Wisconsin that has a ranch and a herd

>> and when they're in that state they clip

them

>> and then they freeze dry it raw. And

this is something in like Chinese

medicine that's been done for thousands

of years with deer antler. But why I

think you might be really Have you never

used antler at all? Oh man. So, it

allegedly has IGF-1 in it.

>> Mhm.

>> And it has is loaded with glucosamine.

>> Yeah.

>> I think it acts as like an aspirin slash

like a natural steroid

>> if this makes sense. Like a a growth

factor of sorts. And um you know those

antlers are the fastest growing organic

material in the world on an animal. And

um I like so for instance I played some

pickle ball the last few years and I

just feel like my joints are lubricated.

I have more aggression and energy.

>> Yep. So are these daily?

>> Um I would do both of these like before

a workout.

>> Okay.

>> Or a date.

>> All right.

>> Yeah. The most the those effects like

some of our higher performing athletes

these are the ones they want. Like we

have one of the fastest skiers in the

world and they want these two products.

>> Oh wow. Awesome. And I think it's

something to do with what I'm saying,

the effect of joints and like this u

growth factor in the grow and the

antler. And this is just food. So that's

why I love this stuff. It's not you

don't have to be worried about side

effects like if you're using something

pharmaceutical.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And then the bison testicles is like a

more of like a testosterone support. And

I definitely feel both of those.

>> And then this is awesome for the skin.

So this is a great package for your next

date.

>> That's amazing. Actually, and naturally

increasing my testosterone was like one

one of my goals this year. Well, those

two products I think um would be very

helpful. And if you are doing blood work

and you those are like jars I've been

using, so they're kind of like half

jars, but use the suggested dose before

like um a workout or something or a date

like I said and then let me know how it

goes and maybe we can get you more.

>> Yeah, I love it.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Amazing.

>> Any questions for me? We're we're

hitting that like we got five minutes

till

>> No, this this has been this has been a

lot of fun. Yeah, this has been really

really really cool. Well, it's great to

meet another local legend that I have

now. So, thanks for let's do podcast

like connecting us.

>> I know. Yeah.

>> This is awesome. And you're not doing a

podcast or a book or anything right now.

Uh both No, I'm not. I do need a I do

plan on writing a book and I need to do

it this year, but no podcast yet. I'll

just be on great ones like this.

[laughter]

>> Fitnessing for life where where like

when sometimes less is less is more.

>> Yeah, that might be the podcast name.

[clears throat] Book podcast. [laughter]

All right. Well, thank you, Tim. Thank

you so much. Keep breaking normal.