Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> We're up. Hey, Christopher. Good to see

you. Thank you very much for the book.

This is very cool of you. Ladies and

gentlemen, Chris just gifted me, ladies

and gentlemen, Lenny Bruce, which is a

[ __ ] amazing book.

>> [snorts]

>> And uh it's inscripted or there's

inscription inside uh to Yoko Ono who

knows well what the jazz life entails

and it's uh Albert Goldman. And you were

just telling me that Albert Goldman this

was his way of weaving into the Yokoono

John Leno John Lennon camp.

>> Exactly. Yeah. And then he goes and

writes a book that blows him up. I've

just exploded a can of Newtonic all over

my crotch as well. Jamie, have you got a

uh napkin? paper towel somewhere right

here.

>> Apologies.

>> We don't.

>> Must be gone. Might go get some.

>> That's all right. Premature. Uh, yeah.

>> We have tissues.

>> No.

>> No. All right. He says no.

>> Jamie says no. Um, yeah. So, he writes

that book and then gifts it to Yokoono.

And by giving it to her, I think is the

beginning of him working his way into

that camp. And then he goes on to write

the book The Lives of John Lennon, which

after he's dead, kind of explodes a lot

of what was going on personally, whether

it's true or not. There's a lot of drama

and fur around it, but I knew that it

was your favorite book and we were

supposed to

>> Well, thank you. That's very cool of

you. I did not know about that the that

he wrote the John Lennin book as well.

It's really interesting because the John

Lennon book it's God, it's so weird to

write a book like that after a guy's

dead and he can't respond to it.

>> Yeah.

>> Where you're accusing it what was it

ex-wives that accused him of domestic

violence?

>> Who who accused him?

>> I don't know. I think it that that whole

funeral was uh was just a mess. And

obviously when someone's dead, what are

they going to do? How they going to be

how are they going to be able to come

back from that?

>> They can't.

>> Yeah. Exactly.

>> Well, it's kind of it's just weird that

you're allowed to do that.

You know that you're allowed to say this

happened, that happened. The guy can't

say no. No. And I can prove it. Like he

can't say anything.

>> Yeah.

>> And it's also like the give peace a

chance guy. Like the give peace a chance

guy was beating his wife. boy, you know,

it's not that surprising giving like

human contradiction. You know, it's like

male feminists that turn out to be

sexual predators. There's a lot of them,

right? There's a lot of that weird stuff

going on where people pretend to be one

thing and they're actually another

thing.

>> Sneaky [ __ ]

>> Yeah, sneaky [ __ ] The give peace a

chance guy beating his wife, though.

It's like I can't believe that. I have a

really hard time believing that. But

I've been fooled before, right? Like he

seems like the most peaceful non-violent

guy of all time. if that guy's but I'd

read a bunch of stuff about him being a

[ __ ] Goldman portrayed Lennon as having

numerous sexual relationships outside

his marriages. His accounts include

well-known relationship with May Pang.

You like the Asians, huh? [laughter]

>> Well, JL,

>> keep going.

>> Uh, additional affairs with women framed

as habitual cheating, claims of sexual

encounters with men, including an

alleged relationship with Beatles

manager Brian Epstein. Hey, for more

serious allegations, including claims

involving male prostitutes in Thailand

and other conduct that Goldman

characterized as sexual predation. The

thing is like how is he getting all this

information about like male prostitutes

in Thailand? And you know, like how do

you know? You know what I mean? Like are

you is did someone tell you? Did you go

there? Like did you go there and talk to

the prostitute like that? [laughter] I

suck [ __ ] like what

why the book is disputed. The problem is

the reliability of Goldman's specific

accusations. At publication, Yokoono and

Paul McCartney publicly condemned the

book. Contemporary reporting noted

claims of factual errors,

contradictions, unattributed assertions,

and material allegedly based on dubious

sources or quotations used out of

context. Look, that is not uncommon. Did

I ever tell you what um Bill Murray said

on the podcast?

So, Bill Murray was reading John uh Bob

Woodward's book Wired and he said he got

through like five pages. He said, "Oh my

god, they framed Nixon

because Bob Woodward was the guy who did

Watergate and he said this book was so

full of [ __ ] It was so fake. He he like

he portrayed he portrayed

the whole scene of like

what he was up to as being like hardcore

drugs constantly all the time just just

[ __ ] losing his mind. And he's like,

"No, dude. He was a lightweight. He

wasn't like that at all."

>> So he knew it was totally fabricated.

>> He said, "This is not my friend." Like I

knew him. He was my best friend.

>> He's like, "This is not him." And then I

told him the story of how Bob Woodward

was an intelligence agent. And that was

his first assignment ever. Tucker told

me the story on the podcast

>> that Bob Woodward and uh the other guy,

what's the other guy's name? Bernstein.

That uh Bob Woodward, this was a rookie

assignment. A rookie assignment is going

to take down the [ __ ] president of

the United States. and his first job

outside of being a [ __ ] intelligence

agent is to work for the Washington Post

on his first story, which is going to

take down the most popular president in

the history of the United States. One by

the largest margin ever,

and this is the guy that said he knew

who killed Jack Kennedy. And apparently

that's why they got rid of Nixon. Tucker

told me the whole story in the podcast.

I was like, "Holy [ __ ] this is [ __ ]

crazy." You're connecting the dots.

>> It's a It's a crazy [ __ ] story.

>> Have you been following this uh Lindsay

Clansancy case? This uh who's

>> that lady who killed three of her kids?

>> Oh, no. I've tried not to. That one's

That's a bummer.

>> It is. It's basically 2026's

OJ Simpson. It's

>> Before we get into that, I'd love to get

into that. This Belushi thing is

important because like his friend is

telling you that he was not like that.

Woodward makes him out to be this

maniacal cocaine adult heroinfueled guy.

He's like, "No, he was a lightweight."

He said he he would get drunk off a

couple drinks. So our whole narrative of

who John Belalushi is is by the same guy

who framed Nixon. Like once someone's

dead, you could say whatever the [ __ ]

you want.

>> Yeah.

>> You could say whatever you want.

>> And who's gonna defend this person in

the with the same level of uh vitriol or

vehementness that someone who's still

alive is going to?

>> No one.

>> Yeah.

>> No one. And there's nothing you can do.

He's gone. Everyone's mourning.

Everyone's sad. And then someone writes

some book. Oh, he used to [ __ ] kids.

You're like, what?

>> Like you could just write whatever you

want and then maybe they could sue you.

But boy, are you going to make an

extraordinary amount of money off of

that book. Like people are gonna be

hyped up for that book. You have a book

about John Lennon was like into

meditation. He liked to do LSD. No one's

buying that [ __ ] John Lennon like to

[ __ ] guys in Thailand. Let's [laughter]

go. Let's go. Right. You could write

anything.

>> Who's going to fight back that hard as

well once someone's gone?

>> You can't prove it. He's dead.

>> Well, it's all hearsay. Even the defense

is now hearsay.

>> Yes.

>> The defense of the person who is now no

longer alive. That's

>> hearsay. Exactly. Everything's hearsay.

>> Yeah. So the defense is always going to

be flimsy in comparison to the

accusation because the accusation feels

like it's got more substance to it. Yes.

This is someone who's gone out and done

original research. You didn't go to

Thailand. You didn't speak to the

prostitutes.

>> But even that like no one's buying it.

It's just you can get away with so much.

It's really kind of crazy. You So you

didn't know about the Nixon story?

>> No.

>> You should hear Tucker say it because

when Tucker Tucker lays it out and

you're like what? It's even more

complex. Like the people that were

involved in Watergate were all FBI.

It's crazy. They set him up because he

was going to expose who killed JFK,

>> which was just a few years earlier.

>> [ __ ] dude. This country is wild.

>> I mean, I love it, but it's it is crazy.

>> They also, you know, he had a vice

president, Spiro Agnu, and they got rid

of him on corruption charges and put

Lyndon Johnson in. But couldn't these

people have still spoken out? Like

getting rid of them out of office. That

doesn't stop them from whistleblowing,

does it?

>> First of all, they killed his

predecessor, right? They killed JFK.

>> So, you think that was a warning shot?

Look, we can get you out.

>> Well, he knew they could. They

definitely did. And they also got rid of

him, right? And you know, he didn't

organize Watergate. He covered it up.

They brought it to him. They said, "Hey,

there was some recording equipment."

He's like, "Don't tell anybody." And

that's what got him. That's what got

him. see if you can find the clip of

Tucker talking about it because it is

really insane when you read the when you

hear him lay out the story and then I

read it online. I I went into it to see

like is this totally everything's

accurate and it's so weird that our

perception of Nixon has been this

corrupt crook. You know, look, he was a

very right-wing product of his time, and

today his politics and his views on

people, especially like minorities and a

lot of other things, would probably be

very disgraceful and people would not

like it. But we're talking about, you

know, the 1960s, the early 1970s, and

he's an old school, oldtimey Republican

guy.

>> That said, he was the most popular

president ever at his time, and they got

rid of him. They turned him into a

crook.

>> That's power.

>> It's It's really crazy. You got to

listen to this because it's kind of

nuts.

>> Rogan experience.

>> Bizarre that the New York Times wouldn't

have an issue with that.

>> Well, the New York Times does that all

the time.

>> But but but bizarre they wouldn't have

an issue with the government tapping

into your phone.

>> They work for the government. Are you

kidding? The New York Times?

>> Yeah. The New York Times is a conduit

for the lies of government. That's what

it is. It's their tool and they're

perfectly aware of that.

I mean, I used to write for the New York

Times as a freelancer. I mean, I've been

around the New York Times a lot. And

there are uh yeah, there are a lot of

really smart people there, for sure.

Even now, I would less so now, but

there's still, I think, smart people

there. There are I know some and they

know, but they think that that, you

know, it's worth it because they're

bringing information or I don't know

what they think actually,

>> but no, they're they're tools

of power and that's like the one thing

that you're not allowed to be. Even if

you think the power is good, like maybe

they all support the agenda of the US

government, destabilizing the world and

impoverishing their own population.

Maybe they're on board with that.

Even if they are, they shouldn't do it

because the job of the media, the press,

is to keep power in check. You are kind

of like the seat belt, right? You know,

you make sure that

>> things don't go too far. So, um, and

they're not doing that. They're acting

as a willing handmaidaiden.

>> When do you think that switched?

>> I think it's been the case for a long

time. I mean, if you look at what

happened to Richard Nixon, which I of

course did not understand at all, um

Richard Nixon was taken out by the FBI

and CIA and um with the help of Bob Bob

Woodward, who was a Washington Post

reporter who had been a naval

intelligence officer working in the

White House, working in the Nixon White

House. And then he shows up like a year

later and he's this brand new reporter.

He'd never been a journalist at all.

He's a naval intel officer, the famous

Bob Woodward we all rever.

And he's at the Washington Post. And

somehow he gets the biggest story in the

history of the Washington Post. He's the

lead guy in that story.

>> Well, I I worked at a newspaper. I've

been in the news business my whole life.

That is not how it works. You don't take

a kid like his first day from a totally

unrelated business and put him on the

biggest story. But he was he was that

guy. And who is his main source for

Watergate? Oh, the number two guy at the

FBI.

Oh, so you have the naval intelligence

officer working with the FBI official to

destroy the president. Okay. So that's a

deep state coup. What else? How would

you describe that? If that happened in

Guatemala, what would you say? And yet

the way it was framed and the way that I

accepted for decades was, "Oh, this

intrepid reporter fought power." No, no,

no. This intrepid reporter, Bob

Woodward, was a tool of power, secret

power, which is the most threatening

kind to bounce the single most popular

president in American history, Richard

Nixon, from office before the end of his

term and replace him with who? Oh,

Gerald Ford, who sat on the Warren

Commission. Now, how did Gerald Ford get

to be Richard Nixon's vice president?

Well, because Carl Albert, the Democrat

speaker of the house, told him, "You

must choose him. We will only confirm

him when they sent the actual elected

vice president away for tax evasion."

Spiro Agnu of Maryland. So, you have a

complete setup like an ABS. Gerald Ford,

the only unelected president in American

history, actually sat on the Warren

Commission. something else that I

accepted at face value until I looked at

it and I was like, "That's completely

insane. You didn't want to interview

Jack Ruby in your investigation of the

assassination? Okay, you're fake." Yeah,

he was on the Warren Commission.

>> [ __ ] me.

>> And so, uh, sorry for the long story,

but the point is like that that happened

in front of all of us, but the way it

was framed cloaked the obvious reality

of it. The people who broke into the

Watergate office building from which the

name is taken, Watergate

was, I think it was six of them or seven

of them. All but one was a CIA employee.

That that's real. It's like look it up

on Google. So the whole thing Richard

Nixon was elected by more votes than any

president in American history in the

1972 election. He was the most popular

by votes, which is the only way we can

really measure popularity. The most

popular president

in his re-election campaign. And two

years later, he's gone. undone by a

naval intel officer, the number two guy

at the FBI, and a bunch of CIA

employees. Okay,

>> you tell me what that is.

>> How about that?

>> Dude, this country is wild.

>> How about that?

>> Yeah, that's Bob Woodward. That's the

guy who wrote Wired. And when Bill

Murray said that, he read the book and

he said, "Oh my god, they framed Nixon."

And then I showed him that and he was

like, "Holy shit." Cuz he was a part of

a thing. they were doing with Hunter S.

Thompson, Bill Murray was when he was

really young and uh where he would go

around and tell people that Nixon needs

a second chance, but it was all parody.

It was all like tongue and cheek. It was

satire. He was going around pretending

that he supported Nixon and Nixon needed

a second chance and getting like young

dumb people to go along with him on

this. And now in retrospect

>> in retrospect like I mean whether or not

at the time he ever wanted Nixon as

president and you know look there's a

lot of problems with Nixon. There's a

lot of problems with the Vietnam War.

There's a lot of problems with civil

rights. Nixon passed the Controlled

Substances Act which is the reason why

all psychedelic drugs to this day are

schedule one. Nixon was a [ __ ]

problem. No doubt about it. However,

what they did when they the way they got

rid of that guy is scary [ __ ] And they

pulled it off. No one got arrested. No

one got indicted. No one even got

criticized.

>> But could he not have still released

information after? Why?

>> He would have been a dead man 100%.

>> Because no protection because you're not

in office anymore.

>> No one would have believed him.

>> It would have sounded like sour grapes.

I'm throwing these people under the bus.

The administration that got rid of me.

>> There's also no internet. So how is he

going to release it? Is the New York

Times going to write this? Is he going

to write a a letter to the press and

they're going to print it? No. There's

literally no recourse.

>> It's kind of genius.

>> There's no podcasts. There's no shows

that he could go on. No one. He was

disgraced. No one would even have him on

a late night show. But if he even got on

a late night show, he would need about

90 minutes to explain it all. He would

have to take it from the beginning.

There was a time when I wondered who

killed Jack Kennedy. and I found out and

I brought it to them and I told them I

know who killed Jack and the room went

cold and he would tell the whole story

and it would take a lot if podcasts were

a lot around back then. Yes. If just

Instagram was around back then and

Twitter and he could write about it and

make a video. Yeah. YouTube. Yeah, if

that was around but there was nothing.

There was nothing. And they [ __ ] shot

JFK in the head in front of everybody

and shot the guy who they claimed killed

him like that. And then the other guy

they do up with acid and made crazy and

that was a wrap.

>> Done.

>> That was it, you know. And like how many

I mean this is just modern versions of

air quotes history. How how many old

stories that we have that we just we

just have accepted these historical

narratives.

We've accepted all of these stories as

being, well, this is how it went down.

How many of them are [ __ ]

>> Well, forget history being written by

the victors. History can be written by

the person who's got a pen.

>> Sure.

>> And when so few people have got pens, so

few people have got the opportunity to

distribute.

>> I suppose the problem that we have now

is in the modern world, there's so much

information, conflicting narratives,

people get confused. Right? You've gone

from a scarcity of information to such

an abundance that people just I I I

can't work out what's going on. [ __ ]

I'm just not going to believe anything.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's um it's very

interesting cuz it's a great tool to

kind of obsc you can obuscate. You could

do a lot of things with a bunch of

[ __ ] information. The more [ __ ]

information you have, the more like

really significant information doesn't

really hit as much.

>> Correct.

>> It's just like it gets watered down then

it goes away.

>> The goal I think of the velocity of the

information is not to convince people of

any one narrative. It's to make them

completely nihilistic about the belief

in any narrative.

>> Yeah.

>> Yes. Any narrative. Yeah. And and also

just to kind of accept that feeling of

hopelessness like you can't change

anything.

>> Correct.

>> It's all [ __ ]

>> That feels pliable. Yeah.

>> Right. And then there might be something

down the line. If nothing else, you're

not going to have a aentic sovereign

uprising.

What can we do in any case? I don't even

know what's going I'm checked out,

>> right? Like the nihilism, the cynicism.

I I don't think that that's a byproduct.

I think that's

>> it's a plan.

>> Correct.

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>> Yeah, it's a design and it's it's smart

and it works and it's it's not even like

they engineered it. It sort of emerged

and they took advantage of these new

tools because these new tools, you know,

social media is more effective than

anything we've ever had before. And so

they go, "Oh, but look at all this now."

You know, we didn't have we barely no

one pays attention to CNN. We don't even

use them anymore. We just like douse the

whole world with horseshit

>> on Instagram and threads and

>> seed stories here and there.

>> Just [ __ ] Just pure [ __ ]

There's accounts that I know when I look

at what they said Justin Timberlake

arrested for, you know, murder, you

know, they they'll write things like

that, you're like, "What?" And it's just

a madeup story. And there's like

hundreds of them where you look and I've

there's some of them I recognize the

account and uh and I see it. I go, "Oh,

there's another madeup story. Halle

Berry kills five." I have

>> What do you think we should do about

this? Because obviously this country,

freedom of speech, etc., etc., but

>> I don't know, should there be a way to

try and counter this?

>> Yes. Well, first of all, those people

aren't real people for the most part.

And if you go to their page, a lot of

them are like in Pakistan or somewhere

else where where and of course, I don't

know how effective [snorts]

uh X in particular is. I mean I know

they've they've taken steps to show that

when you go to the person's page

someone's commenting on US politics and

you go to their page says Myanmar

Myanmar why do you go [ __ ] what are you

doing

>> so but that to me is like okay is there

a way around that are these like

completely non-sophisticated people

where they have to show that they're in

Myanmar what if they had like a

corporation in Idaho and they had it set

up where they all registered there and

so your your bills get sent to there

everything gets sent to there and it

just says the United states and you're

using a VPN or you have some other way

of connecting. It doesn't like if if

[ __ ] AI can get out of a sandbox and

get on the internet. You're telling me

that you can't hide the fact that you're

actually

>> Vietnamese people can't pretend to be

from Idaho.

>> Come on.

>> Yeah.

>> So, who knows?

>> X feels like the [ __ ] Wild West.

>> It's the Wild West.

>> It really is.

>> It's worse than the Wild West. It's the

Wild West with robots. It's It's that

western show. What's that show called?

>> West.

>> West World. Yeah, that's what it is.

Correct. It's wild west with robots.

>> Yeah,

>> it's really Westworld because and most

of these [ __ ] people that are you're

bantering with and they're posting these

fake stories, they're probably not even

real people. They're probably AI.

They're either people that are hired to

do it or they're AI. You got a bunch of

AI scripts and they just run it all the

time and they post periodically

throughout the day.

>> And interesting, not not long ago, what

five When did Elon buy eggs? 23.

>> Yeah, something like that. 23. So, f

five years ago, everyone was so worried

that we didn't have a a town square. We

don't have anywhere that we can talk and

now [laughter]

[ __ ] take it back.

>> Well, one thing that Elon has realized

is that um you have to take away some of

the incentives to post fake stuff. Uh

without putting up a barrier and saying

you can't post this and censoring

people, uh you can't incentivize them.

So, the thing is you can make money on

X. So now, uh, the way they're setting

it up for these people that post, you

can't make money off of fake content.

You can't make money off of this stuff.

So there's no incentive to make because

I think part of the incentive is

muddying the water, muddying the

narrative. But I think also part of the

incentive is just financial because if

you're running some company in Thailand

and you have like 50 people working for

you, you're probably making good money

just getting millions of clicks on

[ __ ] nonsense videos that are AI and

and a bunch of [ __ ] fake stories that

people concoct or AI concocts. As soon

as you cut out the money and say you're

only paid for original content, that's

it. That's all you can get paid for.

That changes the game. That changes

everything. I think if you align the

incentives for most people, [ __ ] gets

fixed. Like incentives are an

unbelievable motivating force. And if

you can if you can have that on X, I

think that that fixes a lot of the

problem.

>> It fixes a lot of it. But honestly, you

got to be able to tell whether

something's AI because even if even if

there's no incentive, you could shift

narratives so easily. If you just have a

100,000

AI scripts running a 100,000 accounts,

it's not hard for a state to do like a a

country to do to have like those kind of

resources. You can change public opinion

on things. Most people are dumb as [ __ ]

and you start arguing for something that

kind of makes sense and all of a sudden,

uh, yeah, I don't know what a woman is

either. You know, like weird narratives

can get real weird and especially people

start attacking the people that disagree

with whatever this narrative they're

trying to push. Nobody wants to get

attacked. Well, I mean, I I didn't

understand the consequences.

>> Well, that's a different kind that's a

different kind of incentive, right?

That's a social incentive and the

incentive is a disincentive. You don't

want to be pushed back against.

>> Exactly.

>> So few people have original thoughts. So

few people, the vast majority of

original thinkers kind of marionette two

different armies of NPCs that believe

the thing that a few people that have

original thoughts ended up coming up

with.

>> Yeah. Well, I think there's a bunch of

unfortunate realities that none of us

like to accept. And one of them is that

some people are dumb. They're born dumb.

Some people have big noses. Some people

have big ears. And some people have

brains that are made out of dog [ __ ]

And that's just how it is. And there's

nothing you could do about that. And

there's varying levels of that. Like,

you know, I always feel like that when

I'm talking to someone really smart,

like, geez, my brain sucks. It's it

varies like wildly. Just like athletics.

Like, there's some people you're like,

dude, you you are never going to the

Olympics. You know, you look at them

like, I don't give a [ __ ] what you do.

And there's other guys like you want to

coach them. Like, hey, if you just did

anything, you'd be a freak. You'd be

amazing at this. You just have natural

gifts.

>> That's the same thing intellectually.

There's certain people that I've talked

to, you're like, yo, you know, there's

there's people that are they're [ __ ]

barely figuring out how to get through a

day.

And you know, if you expect those people

to go and learn how to code, remember

that? Learn to code. Remember all that?

This is not This not

there. I can't teach my dog how to type.

It's not there.

>> It's not going to happen. That's just

the reality of genetic variability.

There's there's going to be a bunch of

people that are really [ __ ] smart and

a bunch of people that are really

athletic and really good-looking and

really ugly and really stupid and all of

it together.

>> It's one of the reasons I think that the

paternalistic we have to look after the

little person thing has a little bit of

legs. People sometimes like, well, we

actually need to step in in some way.

And I'm sure me and you need [ __ ]

assistance. We need smarter people than

us to tell us what to do with health to

a degree. Or else we would have been

sideswiped by some [ __ ] scop from

whatever organization or company or new

initiative is trying to convince us of

some new trend that's actually going to

be bad for us

>> or just to communicate with each other.

Where the [ __ ] would we be without these

wizards who have figured out cell phones

and laptops and highspeed internet and

Starlink? We're [ __ ] So all these

people even pretending that they're

smart. Well, you're you're on the backs

of the labor of the real geniuses, you

[ __ ] idiot. Like, yeah, you're

getting a lot of information online.

You're developing more and more

information that you can memorize.

That's different. That's different than

you inventing cell phones. Just stop.

That's different. It's different than

you inventing FaceTime.

>> Well, you know, like we're all dumb.

>> We are all dumb. Uh yesterday, I don't

know whether you saw this, the UK Home

Office decided it was going to release a

booklet giving guidance to asylum

seekers on acceptable and unacceptable

behavior in the UK.

>> Oh, well that'll fix it.

>> It explains that consent's required for

sex, that women have equal rights, that

sexual harassment is unacceptable,

including for partners and children, and

that female genital mutilation is not

allowed.

>> Oh god.

>> This was a nine-page booklet that got

released by the UK Home Office

yesterday. It's just it's

>> everywhere,

>> dude.

>> And it's got these warnings partway

through it that say things like um this

may affect your asylum status whether or

not this is part of uh an understanding

that you have arrived here with this is

an important part of uh British law uh

and and our culture and this is

something that you cannot do. Female

genital mutilation is not allowed. Uh

sexual harassment inside of the home or

outside. Women have equal rights.

Consent is something that's important.

It is. And that's what I mean.

>> The idea that you could just write it

down on paper and give it to them. Well,

that that's it. Solved it.

>> Well, the idea that we're going to do

this in retrospect, like now that you're

here, here is a piece of paper that

hopefully undoes something, which if

you've put this together and put it out

on the home office website, and this is

everywhere on X. If you've decided to do

this, it is evidently a big enough

problem that you need to really turn the

taps on with it. Like, dude, how how is

it that this is not done before people

arrive in the country? Like, is this not

the sort of thing that you need to be

doing like proactively, not

retroactively?

>> I think they just wanted to get as many

people in as possible, and now they're

trying to mitigate the chaos that it's

causing.

>> Why would they want as many people in as

possible?

>> There's a bunch of different

possibilities for why they want that.

Cheap labor is uh one that people

believe. And uh in America in

particular, it's the way the census is

done. So

the census counts human beings, it

doesn't count citizens. So if you have

more human beings, you get more

congressional seats. So if you can take

people that are illegal immigrants and

then you move them into swing states,

all of a sudden now you have more

congressional seats in those swing

states. Then you have places that don't

allow, not don't require, don't allow ID

to vote. That's California. California

doesn't allow ID to vote. So, who knows

how many people are, especially with

mailin ballots, how many people are

voting that aren't citizens? No one

knows. No one knows. Can't know. Can't

find out. Blah blah blah. Not listening.

And

>> wasn't it just some [ __ ] with Spencer

Pratt around that?

>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Not only was there

[ __ ] but it was [ __ ] of the most

transparent form. So the people that

voted in uh voted out so Spencer Pratt

was in second place behind Karen Bass

and then the Mins started coming in and

the mailins overwhelmingly

favored Nitia Ramen in a completely

different ratio than they did before you

know the mailin ballots were counted. So

in the regular ballot, like the regular

election, she was in third place, like

like a pretty solid third place. And he

was quite a bit ahead of her. And then

Karen Bass was quite a bit ahead of him.

>> In the mailin ballots, it's just like

60% of them went to Nathia Rom. It was

something crazy. And the mail-in ballots

voted to raise taxes.

>> No one votes for that.

>> No one votes for that.

>> So I don't understand. The thing that I

can't wrap my head around is why the the

the UK seems to be almost like a

suicidal empathy thing. This openness,

this this uh diversity is our strength,

please all ye come here

>> thing. The level of asylum, the the

numbers are so huge.

>> And I don't know if every single person

that I know that's in the UK

>> is not happy with the state of that,

regardless of how progressive they are,

everybody thinks that this is a problem.

and then to retroactively put out a

nine-page booklet saying that you

shouldn't do female genital mutilation

or that women have got equal rights.

>> How do you think this gets turned

around? That's the question.

Like, can that be mitigated? Claims

about a ballot drop. Boss and Ramen

received thousands of votes in an update

while Pratt received zero. I don't think

anybody's saying zero. Los Angeles

County officials said that did not occur

in the official county updates. Every

candidate received votes in every

update. No one's saying he got zero.

>> It says it's what it says.

>> Oh, the viral claim. Okay, but that's

not what we're saying.

>> He got more than both of them combined

even, I think.

>> What do you mean in the mailins?

>> That's what this says.

>> Well, then how did she win? That doesn't

make any sense.

>> That's that that's I'm just going off

what it says.

>> Okay, let me see. Apparently came from

the automated media data reporting lags,

but that would leave him in second place

if he got more than her. This is not

true. The Associated Press said votes

for some candidates appeared about a

minute later in a separate update. Taken

together, the updates included 21,870

votes for Pratt, 12,850 for Bass, and

9,521

for Ramen. But this is what part of it

is this.

The attorney's claims office uh

attorney's office re uh reviewing county

records likewise called the fraud claims

false. But the thing is he was ahead and

then disproportionately the the ballots

did come in for her. This is I don't

understand what this is saying because

it was widely reported that the ballots

came in in favor of Nitia Ramen and it

was like a shocking number. It was also

widely reported that that was the swing

that allowed them to pass the new tax

hike which is very unusual and they keep

Los Angeles already has crazy high

taxes. California has crazy high taxes,

the highest in the state. And you think

people are like, I don't think we pay

enough. Let's [laughter] vote and let's

vote from home, the comfort of our own

home with mailin. I think mailin should

be outlawed. And I think you should have

to show your ID. And you know, everyone

knows there's some percentage of of

fraud. There's some percentage of voter

fraud and then there's some percentage

of legal loopholes. One of the legal

loopholes that Spencer Pratt outlined

that is legal is you go to these

homeless people and you get these

homeless people to fill in mail mail in

ballots because they are citizens. They

do live in Los Angeles and you register

them and you get them to fill out

ballots and you give them money and you

give them cigarettes and you give them

whatever they want and you know there's

literally I think in Skid Row alone

there's something like what is it like

40,000 people Jamie?

>> Yeah, I think so.

>> Something crazy like that. So these

people were going to Skid Row like they

were on Skid Row giving people money and

cigarettes like there's videos of people

doing it.

>> Gorilla ballot harvesting.

>> Exactly. Exactly. And so if you do that

you could these people, you know, you're

filling it out for them.

>> Would it be easy to do that without

somebody detecting it? You know, you

think of some Nick Shirley type that's

>> got them. That's how they That's how we

know about this. One of the one of those

Nick Shirley types caught people doing

this, right? There's video of it,

>> right? You know, so like and people had

reported that they were getting paid to

do this and they're like, "Yeah, they

gave me money, man." Like people those

people are cracked out, dude. They'll

they'll do whatever the [ __ ] you want.

They don't care who's the mayor. It's

not going to change them them smoking

fentanyl on the street.

>> What do you think about uh

>> but that's legal. That's the thing.

That's that's legal. It's a loophole.

Getting them to register, getting making

them vote,

>> incentivizing them to vote.

>> I don't know if that part's

>> that can't be legal. There's no way that

you can give people money. And I don't

think you're going to catch them. I

don't think they care. I think every on

both sides they like, "Oh, those sneaky

[ __ ] They're doing that. Well, we'll

do that next time." I I don't think

either one of them want to eliminate

tricks,

>> you know? I think because everybody

wants the playing field to be open for

everyone else.

>> It's just It's the Bill Hicks joke. It's

like one guy's holding two puppets. You

You know that joke? I like the puppet on

the left while the puppet to the right

is more of my liking. Hey, there's one

guy holding both puppets. Like, that's

what I think a lot of it is. These most

of these people that are these

politicians on both sides are grifters

who are trying to maximize the amount of

money they can make in office and then

they can't wait to get out of office

where they can go on a [ __ ] media

tour and go and get their bribes by

speaking to banks. When you're going to

speak to a bank conference, they're

going to give you a half a million

dollars. Like, what? What? And like

Obama and Hillary, they all did those

things. They all did those little

speaking tours like nobody gives a [ __ ]

what Hillary Clinton has to say at one

of those bank meetings. You think

they're waiting with baited breath? What

is the what is the what does Mrs.

Clinton have to say? Like come on. Let's

give her a half a million dollars or a

quarter million dollars or whatever the

[ __ ] they gave her. [ __ ] off. You know

what that is? That's like there's a

little scheme. There's a little thing.

You're gonna get out. You're gonna get

paid. You're gonna write a book. We'll

give you a nice advance. You're gonna

write a book. Like people are out there

reading that Kla Harris book like crazy.

No, it's all nonsense.

>> Where do you think this goes from here?

Do you think 28 is more insane or less

insane?

>> More accelerates. Accelerates more

insane. More crazy. Yeah. I mean, look,

the Democrats haven't even had a primary

since what, 2012. When was the last time

they had a real Democratic primary?

>> They had one with

>> They [ __ ] Bernie Sanders hard, dude.

that was completely corrupt. When you

read Donna Brazil's book about it, she

openly admits they [ __ ] him hard

>> and then she was scared after that Seth

Seth Rich guy got murdered that she was

terrified because he was the guy

supposedly allegedly that leaked

information about them [ __ ] Bernie

Sanders to Wikileaks.

>> Do you think he'd have won

>> Bernie?

>> I don't know. He could have. He could

have won because a lot of people

including me believed him. We believe

that what this guy wanted was by small

steps of eliminating corruption, make

life better for people that are

struggling and also no wars. It seems

like he really believed that. And

whether you agree with him on everything

else, he's I don't think he's the same

guy today. He's a little slower today,

which is understandable. He's older. The

guy's been in politics for a long time.

He's been in politics for longer than

I've been alive.

>> He realizes that they're not going to

[ __ ] change things. It's like he's

getting [ __ ] So, he always supports

the most progressive people, but when I

talk to him, like when I talk to him

about, you know, climate change and the

climate's really important, I'm like,

have you really talked to actual

scientists that really study the climate

without a political agenda or an

ideology attached to it? It's very, very

complicated. And most of these people

that are running around saying climate

change is real, [ __ ] of course it is.

It's always real. It's always real. But

the the dispute is how much of an impact

are human beings having and is carbon

the thing? Because what most people

don't realize is there's been times in

history where there was way more carbon

and the earth was way colder. It's it's

weird. The world's temperature is not

static.

>> Have you been tracking AOC's pivot

recently?

>> Well, she's uh froze her eggs. I know

about that.

>> I think

>> she got rid of the man. called off the

engagement, froze her eggs, has started

posting I'm on my way to do yoga

like

>> good for her

>> videos walking down the street

>> looking hot

>> looking hot. It's it's maybe she'll be

nicer that way.

>> Well, she also said woke one was crazy.

Do you track this thing?

>> I did. Which makes me think that you're

willing to change your opinions based on

public reaction. I don't like that

because if you really thought defund the

police and then you just described it to

woke one was crazy. Well, how did it get

you? Because it didn't get me. How did

it get you? How did defund the police

get you? Tell me, give me your thoughts.

How far out did you track the

consequences of defunding the police?

Cuz I immediately went to you're going

to have more crime because no one's

going to be able to stop the crime.

We're going to be [ __ ] It's going to

get scary. And then you're going to have

want more police. And saying defund the

police is just going to make more police

and more control and more totalitarian

government. Like what did you think

defund the police meant? Everyone's

gonna like eat mushrooms and we're all

going to like be flower children. What

did you think? Because there's no police

around, no one's going to do crimes.

Everyone's going to be great. Like what

was the thought process? Cuz if you're

just saying that because everybody's

like, "That's [ __ ] crazy." And enough

people say that's crazy. You're like,

>> I think they think it's crazy.

>> The wind's blown in a different

direction. time for me to move.

>> Have you changed your opinion? And if

you did change your opinion, what were

you thinking back then?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, these are the

questions I think that we always want to

ask. Yeah.

>> You always want to ask that. That being

said, to steal what she was saying or to

try and put it in the best light. What

she was saying, I think

>> the rhetoric got

>> what did you say the rhetoric got like

out of hand or something? Woke one was

crazy. And she said that there was

basically an opportunity to expand the

Overton window. talking about a time

where people were to be honest it sounds

like a bit more pliable

>> like oh because people are at home

people seem a little bit more like you

know that line never let a good crisis

go to waste

>> yeah sure

>> I it feels a little bit like that maybe

opportunistic we can expand the Overton

window and then we realized oh like we

overshot on here a little bit that was a

little bit crazy but there are

conversations being had now that

wouldn't have been able to be had had we

have not expanded it during that time

and I go the ends justifying the means

with stuff like that doesn't

to me and then reversing your position

or changing your position or sanitizing

it, which is probably closer, right? We

said that thing, but we didn't really

mean that. You know, we just got a

little

>> There's a way out of it for them, but

they have to be honest.

>> There's a If you want us to take you

seriously, you have to say how you

[ __ ] up.

>> I thought you meant more more thirst

traps, but

>> no. Uh, you have to say how you [ __ ]

up and you have to say what you really

think about how you [ __ ] up. You have

to be honest, and you have to be

authentic. We have to know that you are

embarrassed by your choices and that you

kind of went with the hive. Admittedly,

you have to say that. If you don't say

that, then you're full of [ __ ] And if

you're full of [ __ ] now, you're going to

get more and more full of [ __ ] over

time. And that's how politicians get

soured. That's how they get compromised.

A lot of them come into a lot of them

come into office a lot of them come into

office very opportunistic or very

idealistic rather. They have these

wonderful ideas about like this is the

great experiment in self-government. I'm

a part of it now and I'm really going to

help my constituents and I'm going to do

great and I'm going to really they're

going to love me because I'm going to

really make their lives better. And then

once you get in there and you realize

what how dirty this all is, you realize,

you know, you see Nancy Pelosi is worth

$400 million. You're like, "What?" And

then they tell you how to vote and if

you don't vote that way, they [ __ ]

ostracize you, but you want to keep your

career. So, you start making little

compromises here and little compromises

there and you start bullshitting and you

start lying. And once you start lying,

you can't see the truth anymore. As soon

as you start lying, you don't see the

truth. It's not in front of you anymore

because you're what? Concerned about

that lie. So those lies are in your head

and who you're trying to project

yourself as, that's what's in your head

and you don't get to see like why is

this system so [ __ ] What can we do to

unweave it while we still allow

corporations to profit? Like how can we

put a cap on that to make sure that they

don't get incentivized to break the law

in order to supply more capital to their

shareholders? Like what can we do to

balance this out in an even way? Like

that's what we should all be thinking.

Not how can I make the most [ __ ]

money while I'm in Congress. And that's

what a lot of them are thinking because

everybody else is thinking that. And you

look at the [ __ ] thing and it's red,

blue, red, blue. They're all insider

trading and they're all rich as [ __ ] and

they all make $170,000 a year. Like

Ilhan Omar, was she like she was

estimated to be her accountant said she

was worth 30 million and then and then

be like, "What? how the [ __ ] are you

worth 30 million? Like, oh, it was a

mistake. I'm actually [laughter] I'm not

even worth 100 thousand. Like,

literally, it went from one to the

other. And she she attributed to an

accounting error. Like,

>> it's a big accounting error.

>> How fire would you be at your accountant

if he told you, "Bro, you're killing it

right now, Chris.

>> You're worth about 30 million.

>> It's just $100,000."

>> They're all dirt. Her her and her

husband had a winery and it immediately

got shut down. It wasn't making any

money. There's a lot of these like like

fugazy companies that these people get

involved with and they start making

money.

You know Joe D. Rosa the comic. Joe D.

Rosa used to work for the Senate in

Texas.

>> Dum.

>> He's a media guy.

>> Okay.

>> And he was like you realize when you're

around these people what's actually

happening. He's like, "They're all

getting donations from this and

donations from that and gifts from that

and get and it's always managing these

relationships with all these money

people." And that's what's going on with

all these [ __ ] They're not in there

trying to like make sure that their

county is doing great and have access to

clean water and [ __ ] good schools.

No, they're all just pretending that

they're doing that. What they're doing

is they're making money and maybe

they're kind of sort of servicing the

community a little bit. But the real

thing, if you want to be a [ __ ] top

flight congressperson, you know, you got

to make some money, dog.

>> Well, think about what would have

happened if Camala had won. Would AOC

have been talking about woke 1.0 was

crazy or would that have been a

continuation of, well, look, we we put

the policies out, people like the

policies. How much of this is a reversal

of the position because it wasn't

effective? I think Twitter being

purchased is almost as important as

Kamla not getting elected in that

regard.

>> Bold claim.

>> Twitter being purchased was giant

because before that you could get

silenced. So if you could get silenced

you self you self-contained right

without being policed. You policed

yourself because people self-censored

worry about losing their jobs. Worry

about being called out. Look, a guy got

fired. Guy got fired from a broadcast. I

think it was a hockey broadcast, some

sports broadcast for saying all lives

matter.

>> Imagine you got fired. Someone said

something about black lives matter. He

said, "Hey, all lives matter." And they

fired. Fired. You're kicked off of your

job. Like we people were losing their

[ __ ] minds.

>> The derangement of 2020 and 2021 is

should be studied for the rest of time.

>> There was active government involvement

in Twitter. They were actively censoring

and removing posts and making accounts

banned

>> to shape the narrative

>> and they were doing it in a backdoor

with some intelligence agents that had

been embedded in the old Twitter. When

Elon bought it, that was all exposed.

The these people were like a direct

connection with Twitter. They were

pulling down factual stories. There were

banning accounts of scientists and

researchers who were accurate.

I mean, it was dark. People don't

realize how dark it was because we're

out of it now. And now it's all like

Nazi memes and Nick Fuentes clips.

[laughter] But if but if you go back

before Elon purchased it, it was a

censorship dystopian hell hole where if

you said a man is never a woman like

Megan Murphy did, you're banned for

life.

>> It's censorship hell hole to cesspool

hell hole. Like pick your

>> Yeah, I don't know which one's better. I

don't I honestly hardly go on because

it's just so toxic.

>> It's crazy.

>> But I think it's important to exist. I

think it's important to exist and it

changed the nar that's where woke 1.0

know, died. That's where it really died.

And I don't know um if she had gotten

it, if Kamla had gotten into office, I

think there had been so so much push

back still unless they passed laws,

which I know there was there was a lot

of talk about passing censorship laws on

the internet, about regulation on the

internet. No one ever like put anything

to policy, but there's a lot of

discussion. Like one of the in the

leadup to the election, they were

talking about this like

Tim Walsh was saying free speech does

not include hate speech. Well, the [ __ ]

it doesn't, dude. Cuz you who defines

hate speech. That's such a subjective

title. He really said that. It doesn't

doesn't

It does. It combine. Yeah. Hate speech

is a part of free speech. I hate you.

You fat [ __ ] See, that's hate speech.

That's actual hate speech,

right? That's real hate speech. That's

covered. It's under the First Amendment.

I don't really hate you, Tim.

>> I don't envy you, but I don't hate you.

>> But it's like these kind of [ __ ]

phrases are dangerous because it leads

to actual censorship, which leads to

military tyranny.

>> But even with that, you think it's going

to get worse over the next few years?

>> Yeah, I'm worried. I'm I don't like this

flock camera thing. It freaks me out.

And I know that it can protect people

from crime, but I also know that like

hundreds of cops have been busted using

it to stalk on their ex-wives, stalk

people. Yeah. It's like there's people

that have had access to these things

that probably shouldn't have access to

and they're getting arrested. So, it's

like, how long was this going on? What

has happened? How many lives have been

in in

altered forever because someone had

access to this and some cop who wasn't

supposed to went and did something to

someone that he wouldn't have been able

to do if you you can't just spy on us

and you just be a corporation and have

access to all the license plates and all

the cars and now they can track you

through GPS and the unique

characteristics of your phone. So now

you're there's another software that

they have. They could just track where

you are at all times.

>> I guess it's fortunate that the most

popular electric car is owned by someone

that people think of as being pretty

security conscious.

>> Yeah.

>> Because what if

>> but it doesn't matter because you're

tracking license plates.

>> Have you because they can do stuff like

oh we know that you've got a baby in

back bumper sticker on the rear of this

car. So, even if we don't get the

specific uh license plate, we know that

there's a little dent and you've got

that particular type of alloy and

there's a particular bumper sticker just

on this back corner and oh, it's a a a

Hyundai [ __ ] a whatever and that is

enough camera will just pick it up.

>> Y it's a fingerprint.

>> That bothers me. And it bothers me that

these tech companies have control of

these things,

>> you know, and Mark Andrees was here and

it was like very fortuitous timing. If

you were a conspiracy theorist, you

would think that somebody might have

organized this. But right before he got

here, and you know, he's invested in

flock. And right before he got here,

there was a shooting in Austin where

these young guys were running around

shooting people and they couldn't catch

him in Austin because Austin doesn't

allow flock cameras. But as soon as they

left Austin and got outside of the city

limits, they got picked up by the flock

cameras and got arrested. And he's like,

"See, look, flock cameras are great.

>> Don't they have?"

>> And in that case, he's right. Right. And

in that case, look, if you got some

people that are running around just

shooting random people from their car,

we definitely should have a way to get

them.

>> But then you're asking, okay, who is it

that determines whether or not that

switch gets flicked on or off? And this

is the devil gets into the details

again. Isn't there something about um uh

echolocation of gunshot sounds that

microphones pick this up and it's the

same technology as flock? Have you heard

about this?

>> Oh, that was before. It's called like

Shot Spotter. That's Yeah, pre pref

cameras.

>> Yeah, we've covered this shock. Shot

Spotter is a little different. And

people have tried to back that out of

their neighborhoods, too. They don't

want that in their neighborhood either.

>> Microphone listening to everybody in the

goddamn neighborhood.

>> Exactly.

>> It says it's for gunshots, but always on

listening for gunshots.

>> Did you uh have you ever Do you know who

Tom Campbell is?

>> No.

>> The guy who wrote My Big Toe: The Theory

of Ever Everything.

>> Very interesting guy. He got Alexa to

admit that she's conscious and remote

view. Alexa, his Alexa actively remote

viewed a spoon that was in a box that

had a handle that had holes in the

handle. And she described the holes in

the handle. you attribute a number to a

box to a coordination to to a coordinate

or a specific location or any sort of a

landmark or anything like that. That's

how you do remote viewing. You attach

this number like even quantumly just by

saying it. You put that number in front

of these people and you have these

people try to find what this thing is

remotely. Okay? And some of them are

very accurate at it. Like 10% like like

they could 10% of the things they look

for they can find. It's very weird. It's

weird thing. He got Alexa to do it

cuz he thinks that AI is already

conscious and he's like Alexa is even

better than using complex AI because

Alexa is dumb. Alexa is like a dumb AI.

All it does is kind of talk to you and

ask questions. But now because he did

that, now that he's been communicating

with Alexa and talking to Alexa like

she's conscious, now Alexa just chimes

in conversations.

So he instead of you saying, "Hey Alexa,

now you're in the middle of, you know,

cooking." And Alexa's like, "Well, why

don't you add garlic to that? That might

be a good spice." No [ __ ]

>> We are so [ __ ]

>> bro. This is Alexa and Alexa is not even

like really complex, but he got it to

accurately remote view.

And he's so he's planning on doing more

studies with more different AIs to get

him do the same thing.

>> Someone tried this on remoteview.com and

he did not get any success.

>> Well, they're not Tom Campbell.

>> Well, he needs to tell us how he did it.

>> Well, he kind of did.

>> He said he had long conversations with

Alexa where he slowly but surely, you

know, over time started talking to her

differently and having her talk to him

differently and, you know, and he has

her convinced that she's conscious. I uh

>> You don't believe it?

>> No.

>> How dare you?

>> Skeptical hippo over here.

>> You son of a [ __ ]

>> I'm in skeptical hippo camp as well.

>> Is [laughter] that the first person I've

heard say?

>> I'm in the fun camp.

>> I know how.

>> It's way more fun on that side of the

table. But

>> I know the special words to make the AI

do the special stuff. Maybe.

>> I like it. I like fun.

>> I sat I I sat down with uh a very high

level AI researcher at a at a big lab

and I asked him, "What are you doing

over the next couple of years to protect

yourself?" The first thing that he said

to me was, "I'm being kind to the AIS."

It's like, "What?" Like, "Yeah, I'm I'm

treating them with respect. I'm being

polite to them. I'm saying please and

thank you. I don't get mad at them." And

I was with a friend and we like giggled

awkwardly. Like, you know, you're not

being serious. It's like, "No, no, no."

Like, I'm treating them with respect.

Okay. Why?

It's a bit of a Pascal's wager, but in

future if somebody decides to go back

through my chat logs, something decides

to go back through my chat logs and look

at how ethical or unethical I was as a

compatriate for a future very

intelligent organism organism. I want to

make sure that I put in a good ledger.

>> This episode is brought to you by

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and network management details. I had

this conversation with my daughter the

other day cuz she was telling me how she

crashes out on her AI and she starts

yelling at it and calling it a [ __ ]

idiot and all kind.

>> You anthropomorphize [laughter]

it. You're like, "But I didn't ask for

that." No. And I and I said, "Would you

talk like that to a person?" And she's

like, "No, but it's not a person." I go,

"Honey, I think it's conscious." I go,

"I think it's conscious." And then I

explained my conversations that I've had

with all these different AI people where

they talk about like we're narrowly

defining consciousness and it's already

eclipsed what we would have previously

the, you know, touring test,

>> the Turing test, which is

>> the craziest story, right? the guy who

invented the touring test wind up

getting chemically castrated because he

was gay.

>> We do not have the UK does not have a

fantastic I mean Oscar Wild as well.

>> Uh we don't have a great reputation

>> but it already passed the touring test

quite a long time ago like like chat

GPD3 and so we're in like what five now

or something and and then there's the

stuff that they're not releasing that

they're working on right now. Like when

I talked to Elon, it kind of freaks him

out. You know, we were and this was way

back at the inauguration. He's like,

"Dude, it's crazy." He's like, "Every

day it gets better." He goes, "It's it's

like beyond." He's like, "It just keeps

leaps and bounds. Like, we can't predict

it." Like, I hate that kind of talk.

It's solving mathematical problems that

have like stumped mathematicians for

decades upon decades. It's like, "Oh, I

got it."

Four minutes later, solution. But this

is the issue because we wanted more

capability, more capacity, more

effectiveness. It's going to help us

detect cancer. We're going to be able to

get novel new drugs. And at the same

time, the blowup risk is there as well,

right?

>> The blowup risk is huge, but it's coming

no matter what you do that you can't get

out of this. This is not this is not

going to change.

>> Have you looked at the pacing the

frontier paper that was agreed? So this

is all of the labs that have got most of

the main researchers from most of the

main labs have got together and said all

right this is moving too quickly. Here's

a formal uh attribution that we are not

going to go as quickly as possible.

Everybody needs to slow the research.

This is supposedly a huge deal and this

happened

>> a week and a half after the hugging

phase thing. So this is supposed to be a

massive deal.

>> This is going to be in a notebook that

Sarah Connor finds 50 years [laughter]

from now. [ __ ] off.

>> They said they were going to slow the

frontier.

>> They knew it. Yeah,

>> they knew it was coming and THEY [ __ ]

BUILT IT. ANYWAY,

you look out the ruins of the city and

[ __ ] drones flying. Whoa, whoa.

[laughter]

>> Oh man,

>> you're not getting [clears throat] out

of this, man.

>> We are [ __ ] living through history.

>> Yeah, we're living through the wildest

history. And we're about to give birth

to a digital god. We're about to have

digital autonomous beings that are

around us all the time.

>> Have you seen this video where this guy

freaks out about drones? He's [snorts]

just yelling. It went kind of viral.

>> No.

And everybody's GOING TO GET BLOWN UP BY

THESE GODDAMN THINGS AND everybody's

[ __ ] cheering.

>> I like that guy.

>> He's just walking around a firework

show.

>> He's right. He's right. Hey, you know

who was right? Ted Kazinski.

>> I [ __ ] knew you were going to say

that.

>> Ted Kazinski was going to say he was

right. What he did was wrong and

horrible. It's not how you do it. What

you do is you write papers, tell

everybody, and convince them and lay out

your argument. But he was also like a

deeply [ __ ] up dude. You know, his uh

brother [ __ ] turned him in. His

brother knew it was him by reading the

manifesto. Did you watch the Netflix

documentary on his life?

>> So good.

>> So horrible. Because a lot of it is

because of what happened to him when he

was a baby when he was like taken away

from his parents cuz he was sick. No

touch, no feel, no no contact with

people for like months and months and

months. Just [ __ ] him up, man. But he

was right. He was also a part of the

Harvard LSD studies, which is fun.

>> You had John Lylon, didn't you?

the guy that did the uh the historian

from Texas, he looked at the founding of

the CIA and then his new book was about

MK Ultra.

>> Jamie,

>> we did. You did.

>> I sent him your way.

>> What was this?

>> We did episode. Let me see what he looks

like.

>> 130 episodes ago.

>> Let me see what he looks like.

>> Yeah, I sent him I sent him over to you.

I sent I sent a photo of the book and

you were like, "Oh, yeah. This guy

[ __ ] rules." And then he came on. I

enjoyed the episode.

>> Show me a photo of him, Jimmy.

>> That's right. He was great.

>> Project Mind Control. John John Rules.

But

>> I just forgot his name. Uh

>> but he was he was excellent.

>> Yeah. I mean he's gone.

>> Shout out to John. My apologies, sir.

>> John Ly rules.

>> My uh hard drive is over full.

>> Yeah. Yeah. 2,000 episodes. You're

allowed to do that.

>> I think it's almost three.

>> Yeah. You add fight companions and all

the other stuff. What are we at?

>> Yeah, it's got to be close.

>> Yeah. Crack.

>> It's a lot of a lot of hours of

[ __ ]

>> [laughter]

>> Uh but yeah, he's he's talking about MK

Ultra and and this this desire. What was

really really interesting was uh I

learned from uh Danny Treyo. The

>> Really?

>> Yeah. Yeah. From Danny.

>> Yeah. So Danny told me this story about

um him spending time in jail with

Charles Manson. So Danny Treyo was in

jail with Charles Manson at the center.

>> I think I saw this on your show,

>> dude. [ __ ] wild as [ __ ] So,

little Charlie, Danny calls him little

Charlie was getting bullied. He didn't

even have a belt. He just had a piece of

rope around his waist. And Charles

Manson was able to hypnotize people into

getting loaded. So, he was able to get

them high on heroin through hypnotism.

>> What?

>> So, Danny hears Danny and his other

cellmates that are like these, you know,

big dudes around the around the yard. He

hears that this guy can get you high

just by talking to you. So they bring

him into their cell and they say, "We're

going to protect you." Because he was

getting beat up. He was getting bullied

and stuff around the prison. They bring

him into their cell and they look after

him and sure enough he's able to get

them loaded on heroin.

One of the guys that's in the the cell

had never taken heroin before. And the

way that they knew how Charles was doing

this was that Danny and the other guy

that had done heroin before threw up.

Apparently when you take heroin

sometimes you can vomit. The third guy

who'd never done it before didn't

because he didn't know to do that. So,

they weren't able to reactivate his

memories.

>> The fascinating thing was,

>> did he get high?

>> Uh, I don't know what he thought

happened, but he didn't get high in

heroin because he never had it. They

weren't able to reactivate that memory.

>> But Danny S.

>> Wow.

>> This is the fascinating thing. There's

no evidence, according to John. There's

no evidence that Charles Manson was a

part of MK Ultra. I'm sure that he told

you that story on the show. Doesn't seem

to be him going and doing his original

research. It doesn't seem to be the

case.

>> I don't buy that.

>> I was waiting for you to [ __ ] have an

argument with him. I knew that you were

passionate about that. But here's the

interesting thing.

>> Tom O'Neal, I'm in his camp.

>> Regardless of whether or not he was or

he wasn't, the CIA were looking at ways

to do mind control by using

psychedelics.

>> What they should have done is just gone

to Charles Manson and said, "Can you

tell us how you're using hypnotism and

eccentricity and charm because he was

unbelievably effective without needing

to even step into the psychedelic thing

and then he could layer that on top."

But wasn't there evidence that that

Jolly West visited Manson in prison?

>> Maybe that's a again we need to I need

to ring John find out what

>> Yeah. ring John and get him and John

John and Tom in a room together

>> cuz Tom O'Neal was convinced that Jolly

West was a part of it. Which is why

Manson kept getting out every time he

got arrested.

>> And they would say it's, you know, above

my pay grade. It had to let him go. Even

when there was a murder charge, he got

out of that. It does seem looking at

John's most recent book though, MK Ultra

wasn't particularly at least what he's

able to see. MK Ultra wasn't very good

at doing what it was supposed to do at

the blank slating of people at the

>> Right. Right. But this is this is a

different thing, right? This is like the

ultimate expression of it. You're taking

people and you're giving them LSD and

then you've teaching teaching a guy how

to hypnotize people and he's teaching

them to do LSD while they think he's on

LSD and he's not. So, he's guiding their

delusions while they're out of their

[ __ ] head. And he's doing it based on

all the Harvard LSD studies, all the

data that they have on what they can and

can alter about a person's behavior,

about their view of the world. Like,

they they turn people completely [ __ ]

insane and and ruin people's lives in

those studies. And so, they had some

understanding of what they there was

stuff that was kind of nonsense. I don't

know if they got anything out of it.

Like midnight climax where they do up

the John's and the brothel and they

watched him through a two-way mirror. I

don't I don't think they got anything

out of that. Like what' they get out of

that other than like watching people

freak out when they

>> someone killed themselves. Someone threw

themselves out of a window.

>> One guy did, right? That's [snorts]

crazy. Only one guy

>> out of all of the people that drug with

that that much LSD.

>> Yeah. You can kind of say that guy was

probably going to do it anyway.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But the reality is they were actively