Six months ago, I was the future. These

days, the pulse say I got mocked by an

anime girl. You know, I get questions

like this almost every day. Usually, I

ignore it or I give the media answer.

Today you get some real ones. It's going

to be five questions, 40 minutes. And I

know what you what you might all came

for. You came for loops, graphs, making

codex go brew. This is free on my

Twitter.

This will help you to survive the roller

coaster that might be coming for you.

You know, yesterday Boris told you to

let the model cook.

I'm the guy who found out what happened

when tens of thousands of people let it

cook at the same time. Let's start with

the question everyone asks first. How is

open claw only 8 months old? You know,

it might be eight months in in human

time, but in AI times it's it's more

like four years. And my source of

inspiration is usually being annoyed. So

on on a rainy day in November, I was

juggling some agents,

but I was also hungry.

So I wanted to make sure that my tokens

are put to good use while I raid the

kitchen. And there was still no good way

to just send a prompt from my phone to

my computer

so some agent could check up how my

agent's actually doing. Remember early

2025? And you know guys, this is my

first silent discos. It's a very new

experience. So like I give me some hands

if you actually listen to me. Yes.

[cheering]

Amazing.

Amazing. You know, early 2025. Oh my

god. We're talking the old Oppus 3i 2.5.

Openi had 03 which was the most

impressive one but also really slow and

expensive at times. And I got a dopamine

hit when my agent did something right.

I'm sure you remember this time. And

these days, if I if they get something

wrong,

I usually question myself, you know, did

I design the loop wrong? Did I not give

my agent everything they need to verify

their work? Do I have an error in my

thinking?

Am I asking for impossible things?

So, I came back from the kitchen

and my coding agent stopped because of

something silly

and I

was annoyed. So, I spun up a new

terminal session. I rambled my idea in

and I let the model cook. It built me a

WhatsApp relay and in an hour later I

could send messages from my Mac to

WhatsApp and back.

And that in itself felt magical. But

really, it shouldn't have. It's like I

we all did this for months already,

right? You open the terminal

and you type something in and you get a

reply.

But the magic is how it felt. It wasn't

a terminal. It wrote concise answers.

It It was proactive. Like sometimes it

would just like check on me during the

day. I made it so the the complexity

would melt away. You don't have to think

about which model, which context size or

when you start a new session. And I I

prompted the weights to a little bit

outside the default distribution

make it feel more like a friend.

And I was using it. I had I had so many

moments where I felt like this is the

future. This is this is AGI.

[snorts]

And you know what? Nobody cared.

Back then I already had a good following

on Twitter and I know it's called X now.

I don't I'll always call it Twitter.

People were not getting it. I would keep

trying to like make them make them

understand like how magical this felt to

me.

But week after week I failed.

And you notice a pattern? It annoyed me.

So I would create group chats with

friends and I added them WhatsApp relay

and I would show them I would let them

talk to it and every time I got a strong

emotional reaction. Some people were

amazed, some people were scared or

freaked out even. But each time there

was a strong emotion

and the best part there were quite a few

people that really wanted it and like

especially to my nontechnical friends I

told them no this is not yet for you and

they got mad. So if that's not an

indicator to have product market fit I

don't know what is.

So

I spent another months tweaking the

details thinking

what could I do to explain the world

you know and then the audacity someone

sent me a pull request to my WhatsApp

relay to add Discord support

you know like what parts of the name are

you not getting I let the PR sit for a

while and I was thinking and I was

thinking

>> and then eventually I was like ah what

the hell

and out of V relay became claudis

because I'm good with names and there's

no more than one message channel and so

you understand how early this was. I

didn't even had compaction built in yet.

So like at some point it would just like

stop uh and just just for in time for

Discord I I added a very hacky version

of compaction so Mario could make a good

one in Pi.

So, it was around New Year's Eve

and as you do, I I went home early

to hack on it some more. And then in the

first week of January,

just as the the geek world collectively

was learning about coding agents, I

created a Discord room, server, guild,

however we call it, and I put my claw in

it. And I remember the the first night

vividly.

People would be joining Discord and they

would like watch me build it in the

open. They would try to hack it. They

were like talking to it. They were

getting smug replies and they see what

they can do and they finally got it. You

know, like this was this was the moment

I sit up all night. I let people

interact with it.

I had this prompt in my agents.mmd that

would instruct it don't do any dangerous

tool calls unless the prompt comes from

Peter

you know this were like six months ago

and where all the things we wrote in our

agent felt more like suggestions so I

watched it very carefully I could always

pull the plug and then at 7 a.m.

Finally, I was done. I said good night.

I pressed Ctrl C and I went to bed. But

of course, like I built the software to

be resilient. So, it was a launch demon.

You know what happens if you like press

control C in a launch demon? Yeah. It'll

just it'll be dead for 5 seconds and

it'll start up again.

So, while I was walking into the

bedroom, my agent happily started

answering God in the world. And then I I

slept for like 10 hours. When I woke up,

I woke up to around 800 messages. People

tried to hack it. I pulled the plug. I

freaked out. I read through everything

and nothing actually happened. But this

was the moment. This was the moment

where it went viral. And you all been

here. You know what happened next? My

inbox exploded.

Reporters tried to call me in the middle

of the night. Did you know about this

feature that Apple would build when you

put it on do not disturb, but people

call you a few times in a row, the

iPhone would think it's an emergency. It

would would still let call through. I

didn't know about it, but reporters did.

My email inbox was more like a

waterfall.

Yeah, the Mac Mini sold out. I think

they're still sold out. I got more

invites to podcast in a month than I did

in my 39 years before. And Tropic sent

an email demanding the name change

and like dropped the lobster

and the project molted a few times.

Claudius became claudebot. Then there

was a very short time where we don't

talk about the name and then it started

on openclaw. Jensen called it the most

successful open-source project in the

history of humanity. And meanwhile, my

inbox was flooded with reporters,

security people, and countless curious

humans, and also agents. You know, the

numbers still don't feel real to me. In

8 months, more than 18,000 different

people opened an issue or a pull

request. Over 111,000 in total. I did

the math. No, who am I lying to? My

agent did the math. Almost 3,000 people

have commits in the repo.

And some people were mad at me because

clearly they did it first and I stole

the idea and they sent me links of

something I've never seen. Some people

called me I Jesus.

For some I became the antichrist. At

some point I started collecting the

obarius.

There's a new one every few weeks.

The the most recent one is actually

from yesterday.

What do we learn here? Be careful what

you wish for.

I was not ready for all this attention.

It almost broke me. Like I was that

close of just deleting the whole thing.

I stopped answering my friends.

I didn't even want to look at my phone

anymore because it was just a stream.

And of course, somebody leaked my phone

number and also a lot of private details

because I'm an enemy of humanity. And

here I am just wanted to build something

cool.

And now we're getting to question two.

Did you sell out? You know, this wasn't

my first ride. I spent my my 20s and my

30s

building a B2B software company.

I wrote a PDF framework

by hand like an animal. I bootstrapped

the company. I grew it to almost 80

people. I ignored the competition. It

became the thing most enterprises would

buy. And eventually I passed things on

to my co-founder. I sold my shares and I

very badly burned out.

Retirement. The idea of it sounds great.

And I spent almost three years wandering

around aimlessly,

catching up on life and parties.

I did all the things that I kind of

missed out on life. I had months where I

didn't even open my computer, you know,

just casually checking the the internet

with my phone.

It's like a normie.

I always knew that if I if I give myself

enough time,

the urge the urge would come back.

I always thought the urge would be code.

I always love programming.

But it took me a year to understand that

that's not entirely correct. I love

building.

Programming was just a means to an end.

And here I was

eight months after I found my Spark

again.

And my inbox was full of receipts

begging me to take their money.

And I didn't know I want to.

So when the big labs came knocking and

suddenly I was on the phone with

Mark, Sam, few others, this seemed like

a much more interesting pass.

It also felt unreal, right? Talk about

imposter syndrome. And maybe that's an

important lesson for you. Everything

that

everything you can build can be forked

or cloned, but your name cannot.

So your personal brand is way more

important than any single product that

you ever will

start working on that before you need

it.

So yeah, I know how to play the game. I

also know that doing this was the

equivalent of selling my soul.md. If you

know, you know

the decision was not easy,

but I if I learned anything during my

time after the burnout, it's it's this.

It's trusting your gut. And my gut told

me that I like open the most. Did Hermus

win?

And the short answer I can give you is

they beat us where it hurt. We're still

there.

And both of those are my fault and my

doing. In the months after the release,

we got absolutely crushed by security

reports.

In some ways, we were a prototype of

what many open- source projects now

experience.

And even though most were

super HKC, uh I felt the pressure.

And then the press, the press say 20% of

our skills are malicious. Now we

actually put a paper up with this. We

did the the numbers and the numbers are

more like 0.3%.

We scanned all 67,000.

We shipped the we shipped the paper. But

you know

a correction never travels as far as a

scare. I felt this responsibility.

The world discovered open claw. And even

though there was this big scary

disclaimer actually much bigger than I

could on the slides when you install it.

I knew many people wouldn't read the

docs. So I really focused on that

hardening the code base building layers

and layers of security. I did

sandboxing, allow lists,

a a web protocol with permissions built

in. We were shelling out to Python for

some file operations because there were

some primitives that are simply lacking

in Typescript

to ensure your agent stays in the

workspace. It doesn't follow sim links

and that the configuration files are

written atomically. Most of the users

didn't care about that. Sure, they

they like the abstract term of security,

but in all practical terms, they

updated. I broke something they depended

on. I made things slower and I made

things more difficult to update.

And another thing I have to admit I got

sloppy

because now I had to my time shifted

between open source the press

spending countless times on the phone

with lawyers to set up a a 5013 American

nonprofit.

I worked on my own one and you know

OpenI has its own world

that is interesting and demanding. I

brought on help

and we got such an amazing community of

maintainers that are very much respected

and everyone added their own little

feature. I felt I felt like I'm a bit in

a hard place.

After all, these people work for free,

right? So who I am who I am to to to to

tell them what to do

and also my attention was all over. So

we added a lot of features.

You know features are the fun part.

A new feature is is just a prompt away.

The real cost comes after every feature

we shipped of course with a

configuration option because we didn't

want to break everyone's setup. At our

highest, I had to count that we ended up

with around nine and a half thousand

configuration options. If you count all

the permutations, you can write all the

tests you want. It is impossible to

cover all of these and not break things

from time to time. It is infinitely

harder to evolve software that has

users.

Meanwhile, other companies, they were

fueled by VC money. They pushed ahead.

The anime girl company did it especially

well. People started inserting

themselves into pretty much any

conversation on Twitter while we were

burned in security grant work and

features. They had a simple story, an

aggressive marketing campaign,

and a oneliner to migrate people's

clause. The main thing though that

really hurt the project was entropic.

Not the name. The part was stressful,

but I I kind of understood and they were

really nice about it. It was the fact

that I optimized too much on their

model. I built Open Claw with Codex and

GPT, but the harness for a long time

really worked the best and was optimized

for OPOS.

So when they ping me with around 24

hours

notice that they're going to disable the

subscription for everyone

there was not really enough time to

change course.

I mean, sure, we we support openweight

models.

We did a lot of work on them, but they

really weren't that great yet.

And the early open air models

simply lacked character.

So maybe write this one down.

Your dependencies business model is your

business model.

You know, that's all fixed now. solves

pretty awesome. Open weight models are

actually good.

I learned a lot about harness

engineering.

But in many ways, people moved on.

You can see that in our download charts.

We bottomed out at around 835,000

weekly downloads in May. And then after

being declared death in in June, we

peaked at 4.7 million, the highest ever.

Both of those are true at the same time.

A hype is like the weather. You might

see it coming, but you can't control it.

In my case, it was a storm. Question

four, is it still fun? You know,

somewhere around February,

it stopped being fun. I started to feel

like it started to feel like a

responsibility.

I woke up and the man who didn't want to

build another company found himself in a

situation where he had two jobs

or should I say a job and a calling. I

was struggling and worst of all I

stopped using my own product. Somewhere

in that time I stopped making a product

I love and I worked on making something

for everyone. It became less of a thing

that I use every day and more I think

that I saw and felt was work. And I

wanted to picture who everyone really

is. One of them has a grocery agent.

Another one tried to social engineer my

bot. Between everyone adding features

and all the organization work.

I became the person that fixed the bugs,

fixed the security issues

and provided support and built a

foundation. And because all these people

were like giving the rumor mill, oh,

open clouds owned by OpenAI. I didn't

want to take too much help from OpenAI.

I mean, yeah, they gave me token and I

boy did I use that.

But I was also pulled into other product

projects and there was a whole flood of

people that I couldn't as easily block

who wanted to talk to me. In hindsight,

I could have many done differently like

I could have asked for more help.

I could have moved responsibility off my

plate, but I was so deep in everything

that I didn't take time to think through

strategically.

Luckily, I met a bunch of amazing people

and little by little things aligned. I

figured out my visa,

eventually formed a nonprofit.

We got amazing companies as donors and I

found some really good people that

believe in open source.

and started working with me. I also need

to give Nvidia a special shout out

because they were very early and they

simply asked me what I need. And then

they sent people to take over much of

their security work. And I think it was

somewhere in May

around my birthday

where I had this feeling that things are

starting to feel good again where the

joy of building for me was coming back.

And yeah, somewhere in the press,

the press decoined an open open clock

killer every other week. At some point,

I think I counted 20 of them. There's

even a a literally a project called

OpenCloud Killer. It's an uninstaller,

which is totally unnecessary because we

have an uninstaller, but you know, but

none of the killer stories ever picked

up what this is actually about.

open source. My source of inspiration is

being annoyed.

These days, I get annoyed when I have to

use software where I can't just send a

prompt to my agent to change it. That's

the fun part that's coming back. It's

hard to compete with someone who's just

there having fun. Fun is velocity.

The weeks I enjoyed building, the

product got visibly better.

the weeks I didn't. We should config

options. Question five.

What's next?

Some people in the audience might be

like, is this finally the part where he

talks about graphs? First of all, I'm

super happy with where we are with the

foundation. Our mission is to bring

people closer to AI and things are

changing so fast. For many people, it

feels scary. I'm proud of one thing that

OpenClaw achieved

and then for many people it moved the

eye from this thing that's like nebulous

and scary into something that is fun and

weird you know lobsters and all of that

and they'll keep pushing there.

keep building a great ecosystem of open

source software

with events that bring people together

and with education.

We have 10 people now on payroll. We're

hiring a few more roles including a CEO.

Second of all, I kind of made claw noun.

You know, Kapati dropped the open Satya

says enterprisegrade clause in

Microsoft's keynote. There are 33,000

claw named repositories.

If we are in a simulation, we're

certainly in one of the weirder ones

that won't get shut down. I dig this

part of the future.

Third,

we still don't have an agent that's

always on,

always syncing. There's still so much to

do. the landscape and the tech in AI are

building faster

than the software that you build around

and that's an opportunity for all of

you.

Our workflows are also evolving

like the vision I had early on where we

shouldn't think about session or

compaction.

The world is finally the models that

tech is finally getting to a stage where

this is becoming a reality.

We're entering a world where

we finally move on from the text text

only interfaces to voice and

multimodality.

Just yesterday we got a a hack working

that your claw can now facetime you and

this is kind of what matters why open

claw exists at all. Every lab will sell

you an agent. Open claw is the

alternative.

Open source runs everywhere, works with

any model. And if you run local models,

your data never has to leave your

device. Your agent, your machine, your

life.

That's not even my C thesis, that's

Gary's. You know, [laughter]

we just chipped it first. So we also

finally are building open claw with open

claw again but this time with a twist

where everyone sees each other's session

on a team server and there's a claw that

knows what everyone else is working on

and also can also take over

orchestration of the work. Yeah, we are

finally leaving this slowly this weird

blip in the future where people work in

terminals and run around with their

laptops open because the agent needs to

keep working. If you only remember three

things, number one, don't stop having

fun. Fun is the ultimate driver so you

can you can get the best ideas. Number

two, listen to your gut. And also fix

the things that annoy you. it might just

become the next big thing. And number

three,

stay focused.

You know,

another podcast is not what what will

make you win. Live in the future,

build what's missing.

And when they write your arbiterary,

keep shipping. It confuses them. Now,

[snorts] these were five questions. I'm

sure you have many more. And I think we

have plenty time. uh for QA. So first it

was agents, then loops, then graphs. How

are you building these days? I mean it

was always sessions, right? But in the

beginning you had to like actually care

that like you would clean and like you

would make sure that your instructions

are are coherent.

And these days it's more like my

sessions are topics. clearing the

session

sometimes even a disadvantage because

there's so much information in there

that helps the agent. Um

but the big thing the big thing the big

thing that shifted is

I try to make the agent do more

proactive work for me. So when I when I

shift my attention to something I don't

want to read issues I want to see fully

reviewed and tested PRs. Maybe I like

the feature, maybe I don't, but like I

don't want to like split my attention.

At the same time, at work, if you come

to me and you you tell me this feature

idea, I'm going to get mad at you. Like,

it's so easy that you just discuss the

feature idea with an agent, you build

it, you make screenshots, you let me

play with it. That way, if it's good, we

can like immediately iterate it. But

most of the time, people will figure out

why it's not good and don't even come to

me. What comes after graphs

and what's next for openclaw?

I know like I sometimes I like to

post on a Sunday and then like my

Twitter explodes

but also it's not a post, right? So

anytime you you you know what we as

engineers did for the longest time we

built automations

to make our life easier. That's like

that's been going on since our

profession exists.

So if you design

call it loop, call it graph, call it

workflow, it's kind of all the same. If

you design something that gets a trigger

or gets an input and does something for

you

and maybe there's a decision in the way,

boom, there's your graph. It's not it's

not magical. Even though like you know I

favored some of those graph engineering

posts because I'm kind of curious what

their opinion is that it would be in my

world. It's just like

it's just a a better way of our

automation story that we did for so long

already in a world of build fast ship

fast.

How to make sure that what you build is

still reliable and scalable.

Yeah, that's the part I I messed up for

a while

because I was not I was not focused

and the models were not really good at

testing.

I think that the models are really good

now. We have

we not just have sessions that remember

we have

orchestration trained into models so

they really understand and know to use

sub agents. We have computer use, we

have browser use. Like all of that

together is like your perfect Q&A

environment. Like I did that yesterday

where I spin up codecs, use 12 sub

aents,

understand my project, break it down

into features, and then each

each uh sub agent would like stress test

the feature or code review feature and

then inform the other session where to

focus testing on. some um we're not yet

at the point where you can automate

everything. You'll still you still need

to do some manual clickthroughs so that

you know how it feels. But like for a

lot of the the typical bugs that users

will encounter, you can actually now you

can prompt your way and you get very

far.

Okay.

AI tools. Ah, what's your decision you

made purely for speed early that you

still live with today? I think that was

really early in in deciding that

I don't read all the code. I see code

review more as a as risk management.

You know, sometimes you touch a system

that is

scary. kind of want to like read a

little bit closer and other times

you build UI. Do I really care the UI is

built if it looks correct? No. So you

kind of you glance over or you simply

you simply accept that

it looks right. Part of it is just like

you develop a little bit of a feeling

how long something should take. So if I

do a small tweak that should like change

how dragging works and it takes three

hours, I know something's wrong. I'll

look closely. But otherwise, part of

code review is simply like observing,

looking how big it changes and trusting

your gut.

Okay.

AI tools make it easy to build a product

in a weekend now. But building isn't the

hard part. Getting people to use this.

How would you go from a working

prototype to your first 10 real users

today? Well,

I think that was part of what I

addressed in my talk. User number one

should be you.

And my users two to 20 were friends. So

I'm sure you have some people that would

actually test your stuff, but you need

to be the first user. If you don't if

you don't get excited of what you're

building,

it'll probably not make sense.

Like in this day and age,

eyeballs are kind of the the most

expensive currency because

building something so fast now. How do

you balance solving issues that annoy

you and make features you think people

you want? That's a hard one because

oftentimes it it kind of goes together.

I get annoyed if something's not there

as I want it. I haven't I haven't to be

honest, I haven't fully figured that

part out yet. I feel I could just work

for months on issues because there's

always going to be weird edge cases in

software. Uh especially if you add more

and more features,

but then again, if I only do that, I'll

lose interest in working. So, it needs

to be like it needs to be a healthy mix.

If you could back and change the thing,

one thing about open claw, what would

you change? I would be less stressed out

about

security researchers.

They are really good at making you feel

really bad. They would send a report.

They would email me. They would call me.

They would th everything they can

possibly get to get my attention, but

not actually to help a product. In most

of the case, it's really just for them

to get cloud, for them to get a point.

Oh, we found something. And most of them

really sent reports that their agent

produced without actually even testing

it. I would I would take a stronger

sense of explaining what are the parts

that we guarantee

and what are the parts that will not be

fixed because that that's not our

security boundary. But I honestly I had

no this was my first time I was

exposed to this world. So I I just

didn't know

how to handle that and I I lost a few

months and got a few gray hairs to

learn. What's the single biggest

bottleneck in today's Atlantic

infrastructure?

Reliability

tooling memory

evolves managing compute if that makes

sense.

Like

if I run one test locally in my machine,

TSGO will spin up 16 threads and will

bottleneck my machine. If 10 sessions do

that,

two of them will probably time out and

we'll have to do it again. And there's

no really good system of like managing

all of that. Now, if I do web stuff,

it's easy to create a cloud session. If

I do like something that requires Mac

OS,

that's already where like 99% of the

tools fail me. If it's something that

needs other stuff that's on my computer,

same. And we haven't really built

something yet where things could easily

move from here to here without issues.

At least I didn't see good stuff working

yet.

or where I could

drive a fleet in a reliable way like

right now

I use too many systems I screen share

into some computers to like distribute

the load I shouldn't be doing that how

do you keep an open source project

opinionated

and pointed in one direction rather than

just merging the N plus1 PR that adds a

random feature

and how do you communicate that

direction to the community. Have you

ever said no to popular PR because it

pulled the project off course?

Yeah. Yeah.

I would say I

I didn't say no enough.

This is I

when I do new open source I write a

vision.mmd file where I kind of explain

what it is now where I see this to be

but of course it's it's incorrect. It's

not perfect science and it's something I

I need to adhere to better because it is

it is always tempting to add this one

feature that looks really cool but what

you rarely think about is

when you merge this feature it really

means here's this pile of code that I

don't that the person probably doesn't

really understand that I don't fully

understand that I also go on

responsibility when do you expect to

have claws that are perpetually running

that are proactive in their work. I

mean, honestly,

that's not so much a tech problem. It's

more a token problem

where we could do that today,

but you wouldn't get very far with your

subscription

and not everyone

is willing to spend so many tokens.

It's also

but a part that's not easy is designing

a system that

doesn't just burn empty tokens. Even the

my early system of like heartbeats was

too static and not

not proactive enough.

And then especially bad if you have a

large session

and then one hour later you call like a

highbeat check up on everything and that

means you send 600,000 tokens back to

the server after the KV cache cleared

and you pay

a stupidly amount of of of money for

a lot of not useful work. So there's a

lot of things that can be done to

optimize that. It's also really really

hard. Can you tell us more about your

own personal setup?

What do you host your claws on? What

model are you running? What harness do

you use? Do you still read

Can we scroll?

Do you still read your code? I use my my

MacBook,

but I usually

use jump desktop to screen share into my

studio and then just use the computer

there because that one's always running.

That one I can run whatever I want fast

and not drain my battery and I can close

my laptop and things keep working. Um,

and I have a few other remote machines

where I sometimes VNC in. The the part

that's really nice about it is because I

do a lot of Mac software, agents love to

take over my screen and click around and

if you put that in their own if you give

them their own machine, it will not

bother you. Otherwise, you'll fight with

the agent for the mouse cursor.

Do you still read your code? I think I

answered that a little bit with the term

risk management. And also if I do open

source by myself

is a difference is a different risk

management than if I do software at

OpenAI where we do still read all of the

code. Peter, how would you approach

your next startup idea?

I don't know. Should I tell this to

everyone? Like I feel like it gets a lot

of copies. I mean the most important

thing is you need to build something

that you want to use. Otherwise it'll

just not going to be good.

Second of all is

I hope you worked on your personal brand

and on visibility because in this day

and age there's so much noise out there

that your hardest problem is not the

tech, it's not the software, not even

the people. The hardest problem now is

like getting eyeballs. Maybe I would

pick something again that's that's in

the category

hard and boring

because that's usually a category that

is a little bit easier to actually find

people that will appreciate when you

solved something. If you pick something

that is fun, even if it's hard,

you're gonna have a very tough time,

especially in a time where people can

just prompt things into existence. All

right, last one for today. What's a

product you want someone to build? You

know, I feel it's very easy to have to

get uh

a test box for Linux.

It is unreasonably hard

to get one for Mac that works really

well. And all the stuff that I I I got

for Windows is also quite annoying. Um I

haven't found a really good provider yet

that

does all of that fast and cheap. Um I'm

not sure if this is the business you

want to be in because dev tools are

inherently hard, but that's something I

would love to have. Thanks everyone.