Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

That's Joe. Nice to meet you.

>> Great to meet you, man.

>> It's weird when you've seen someone in

so many [ __ ] movies and then you meet

him in real life. Like, okay, just a

regular person right there.

>> Yeah. Staring me in the face. You just

took a leak. Yeah.

Um, dude, you've been in some [ __ ]

banger movies, man. It's like you've had

an incredible career.

>> Yeah.

>> Pull that sucker. Uh,

>> pull it towards me. Yeah.

>> All right. Very good. Yeah. It's been a

long, strange trip.

>> It's been a wild one, huh?

>> Yeah.

>> When did you start acting? How old were

you?

>> All right. So, I'm like 12 years old. I

don't have a winter sport. My mother

doesn't know what to do with me. And uh

my next door neighbor, he lived like

four houses down. He took an acting

class at the Paul Robson Center of

Performing Arts. And so my mother signed

me up so that I could get picked up by

his mom, you know, taken to acting class

in the winter and get dropped off, you

know, and be at home. And I went there

and this head of a local theater company

came by to teach an improv seminar kind

of thing. I I'm 12 years old, right? And

afterwards in the parking lot, he said,

"Um, hey, you want to be in a play." I

said, "What do you mean?" He says, "I

got a part of a guy who's a knight. He

gets to you get to have a sword." And I

said, "Well, I have any lines?" He said,

"You'll have one line." I said, "All

right, cool." And I asked my mom and she

said, "Do I have to pay?" You know, and

I said, "I don't think so. I think

they're going to pay me." So, I went and

I did this play and it was George

Bernard Shaw's St. Joan at the Marter

Theater in New Jersey. And

>> it was a real play.

>> Yeah, it was it was a proper play.

>> And it was an incredible experience to

be honest with you because my parents

hated their jobs. You know, they would

go to work and their life happened on

the periphery of their employment. You

know, my mom would take the train to New

York and so she wouldn't get home till

7:30, something she would leave at dawn.

And um she was just miserable at work. I

mean, and um I went to this rehearsal

and everyone was having they were

talking about whether or not God

existed. They were talking about what

they believed in. They would dress up in

these crazy outfits and then we did the

play and they got a standing ovation and

it was uh it was so much fun and it was

the first time I saw this you could do

this for a living. Uh, you know, a lot

of the the actors aren't people you've

heard of or anything like that, but they

were real actors and they loved their

job and the rehearsal room was still

kind of thrilling watching them figure

out where people should stand and when

what was important and what was the

scene about and what was the theme of

the play and how could this scene fit in

with the larger context and um and I

just decided that's what I wanted to do

and a lot of kids want to act so that

doesn't mean very much but I through

this other friend of mine I started

hearing about open casting calls was in

New York and I asked my mom if I could

go on some of these big auditions and

again she said, "Does is it going to

cost me any money?" She said, "If I paid

for my own train fair, I could go to

these auditions." So, I took some

Polaroids and uh went on a few of these

big auditions and I got one of them and

it was for this big in 1984. It was a

$30 million movie directed by the guy

who just done Gremlins, right, Joe

Dante. And I thought I was a made man. I

mean, it was just it was inca it was

absolutely incredible to be sucked out

of suburban America and brought to LA.

My first scene partner was River

Phoenix. And all of a sudden, I'm I'm in

LA.

>> And,

you know, my mom couldn't quit her job

or anything, so my mom had a really uh

turbulent relationship with her mother,

but her mother her mother and she didn't

really know each other. And so, her

mother said she'd be my guardian. And my

mom designed this as a way to maybe have

a family healing. But my grandmother was

um a piece of work.

And uh we lived together in Korea Town.

That's what they called it. And um it

was wild. And she I remember we drove

into Paramount Studios. You know, you

can picture it the image from The

Godfather. And you had the big gates.

And my grandmother had always wanted to

be a movie star.

>> Wow.

>> You know, and she had she was from here.

She's from Austin, Texas. Well, really

Fort Worth, but you know, she would talk

about going to see Gone with the Wind at

the Paramount here in Austin, you know,

and she would she would watch Gone with

the Wind, you know, three times a week.

Uh, and she had dreamed of being a movie

star. And I remember we were in a big

van driving me to set the first day and

we went through the gates of Paramount

opening up and she was smoking an Eve

cigarette in the van. Of course, it's

1984. and she's just like my first time

in Hollywood as a [ __ ] guardian,

you know.

>> And uh and so the whole child actor

thing is was a trip and I finished the

movie and there's a lot of drama um

involved in the five was to complete

that story. But I finished it. The movie

was a big turkey.

>> How old were you at the time?

>> 14.

>> Wow.

>> River and I were both 14. We

Yeah. But see, we look so young in that

picture, right? But you got to

understand,

>> you know, when you're that age, you

think you're dying to be 18, dying to be

16. We went off, River and I stole a

pack of Camel cigarettes because we both

wanted to be like James Dean. And um uh

and we had a we had a lot of fun. Um

that's the truth. But the movie came out

and I remember River and I going to the

bathroom at the premiere and um we had

grown a lot from the time we shot the

movie to the time it came out and nobody

in the bathroom really recognized us and

they were all talking about what a

turkey the the movie was, how terrible

it was. And I remember just looking in

the eyes like it it wasn't the narrative

we thought you know we we had bought

into the dream that you know we were

going to be whatever teen icon we were

thinking of at the time and um

and it died a quick and salty death my

dream and I went back to high school and

put away my dream of being an actor. It

seemed like it was this isolated uh

almost like choose your own adventure

book or something. Uh where I got to see

what Hollywood was like but then have it

denied. And it it kind of like putting

your hand in a flame. It was not a good

feeling when it was over. And

then, you know, four years or so went by

and I graduated high school and I was

off of college and I heard about these

auditions for a movie called Dead Poet

Society. And I hated college. I was

miserable. And I thought, I'll take the

bus in and I'll go on one of these open

casting calls again. And

and if I get the part, I this is what I

decided. If I get the part, I'll I'll do

that. and if I don't get the part, I'll

join the Merchant Marines and be like

Jack London. That that was my fantasy at

the time. I remember I remember calling

my sister and saying, "All right,

there's seven parts. This is how dumb I

was. I was like, there's seven parts. If

I don't get one of those, I must suck,

you know." So, which is not true at all.

But I ended up getting one of them. And

um and I dropped out of college and the

the success of Dead Poet Society sent

me,

you know, was like a trajectory of it

shot me down a different course of water

than I was on before.

>> That's probably a much better path than

the first film being successful and you

become a child star.

>> I cannot tell you how grateful I am for

that first experience. First of all, if

for no other reason than in the success

of Dead Poet Society, I didn't take it

seriously at all. I didn't even realize

that the movie was successful until a

couple years later because I had so

braced myself for failure, you know,

perception of failure anyway because of

the first experience.

>> Yeah. Because everybody's saying, "Oh,

the movie is so great." I'm like, "Yeah,

they said this last time. This doesn't

mean anything, you know." And um so it

kind of taught me at a really young age

about to ask yourself why you're doing

something, you know, like are you doing

it for the result of what happens or are

you doing it to do it? And I by coming

back to acting a few years later, I was

just fully braced for it not to go well

and it was still going to be worth it.

And and so I think I it gave me a slight

bit of ballast to handle the success of

Dead went into it for the enjoyment of

doing it rather than thinking a star.

>> I had no expectations, but I was certain

I wasn't going to be a star. I was

positive of it. I saw it as a way to

make some money and maybe learn about

writing and learn about film and a way

to get out of college. Now, what

happened is when I got there, I met all

these other young men who were in love

with acting and that I started watching

movies with them and talking about

movies with them and seeing the light in

their eyes. And we'd go to set and there

was Robin Williams, you know, we had

Peter Weir who had just directed

Witness, one of my favorite movies of

all time at that point. And he was a

master. I mean, he was not a um

lightweight human being. He was a

heavyweight human being. And he would

lead rehearsals and he would talk about

acting and performance in a way that I

hadn't.

Well, you know, I heard people talk

about it that way when we were doing St.

Joan when I was doing the like he talked

about it like we were making art and

like we were on a mission beyond success

or failure and it was it it was an

invitation to a lifestyle a life

commitment and what I didn't realize at

the time that's what that movie's about

too

>> you know so the movie itself is a guided

meditation on carpedium right it's it's

a meditation on gather ye rose buds

while ye may I sound my barbaric yaw

over the rooftop tops of the world. You

know, this is the kind of stuff that I

was getting uh inundated with in

rehearsal.

>> Uh and so that was I didn't I wouldn't

have told you that on the day I wrapped

Dead Poet Society that my life had

changed,

>> but looking back it had it had planted

the seeds.

>> Yeah.

>> I was thinking I I've never met a person

who became famous at 14 who came out of

it okay. Um, I've yet to I heard Jodie

Foster School. Never met anybody that

became famous very young.

>> I read every interview she does for

exactly that reason. Um, I have it's

it's so difficult. I tell parents all

the time like children acting is a

wonderful thing. Put them in the school

play. It's so good for them. Get them

singing lessons, it's so good for them.

Singing the church choir, it's so good

for them. Um, but to be a professional

actor at a young age is um

this it it's dangerous in an extremely

insidious ways that are very very hard

to perceive when it's happening. That's

a great way to put it. Yeah. It's it I

think it completely impedes your

developmental process. The way I I liken

to is like concrete. When you make

concrete, there's a bunch of very

specific ingredients. You put them with

very specific mixture like you have to

have this amount of water, that amount

of sand, this amount of rocks, all the

if it's off, it's never fixed. You can't

add water after it's cured. It's done.

It's [ __ ] forever. This is bad

concrete now. And this is what happens

to a lot of young human beings that

become famous, whether it's through

acting or singing or

>> Yeah. And it's not just fame. That

analogy works for all walks of life,

really. you know, if you have a really

uh something really traumatic happens in

childhood, it's very hard to recover.

It's a tremendous amount of work to

recover. And I agree with you, like I

think celebrity is like it's like a tiny

drop of mercury or it's poison.

>> It's poison for your brain. Now, if

you're mature,

>> you can handle it. And if you get it in

slow in like I got it in slow

increments. Dead poet Society happened.

And I had a little taste of fame, but I

wasn't. Nobody knew my name. I was You

>> go to restaurants.

>> Yeah. I was that kid from Dead Poet

Society. Oh, look at him. Yeah. And I

got it in slow. I got to develop what

what do you call it when you you get a

little bit of poison? Uh like a

>> resistance.

>> Yeah. Resistance to it. Um and I it it

it came so slowly for me. I even think

about people I remember

the weekend Pretty Woman came out two

days before. No one had ever heard of

Julie Roberts. two days afterwards,

she's the most famous per woman in

America. I think that's a huge thing to

absorb. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Um,

and I know that my personality couldn't

have handled it. Um, I've I've worked

hard to handle it as poorly or well as I

have, you know.

>> Yeah. It's I think you going back to

school and living a normal life for you

know five six years or whatever it was

before you left college that's I just

think that's critical that's the

developmental process of the normal

maturation of a person when they go

through adolescence teenage years into

college young adult then you can kind of

handle things and then maybe you're also

fortunate that like you said dead poet

society not you know you didn't get too

huge from it. You just got some some

juice, little bit of juice,

>> a little bit of confidence. That was a

nice, you know, it's like

>> something's happening.

>> Something's happening. But then I had

the years after that

that, you know, I have to give some a

shout out to my mom who was just so

devastated that I dropped out of

college. I mean, she just couldn't stop

crying about it, you know. Um,

>> and it filled me with a

desire to show her that I was taking

responsibility for my own education,

which is what I said I would do. And so

I started a theater company and I I

worked really hard at a lot of different

things, writing and reading and thinking

and mostly with this theater company

where I met a lot of young people who

were interested in what I was doing, but

we weren't paid any money and we worked

our asses off and we built sets and we,

you know, it was fun. I don't want to

lie. We had a great time. But it was

a college experience that I gave myself

through this theater company. And that

changed me because I met a lot of people

who were really excellent at what I do

that weren't making a lot of money. I

met a lot of people who loved it as much

as I do, who weren't getting their

picture taken, who weren't being told

they were special. I knew how gifted

they were. I could understand. I had a

little bit of balance and a little bit

of humility to go along with the

superficial elements of of my chosen

field.

>> Do you ever think about like what would

have happened if that guy didn't invite

you to do that play when you were 12?

It's kind of crazy how there's these

pivotal moments in your life.

>> You know, he just died. Nagel Jackson

was his name and he's he was a great

theater director. I mean, the I don't

know if you feel this way. I I don't

know what

I have a sense often and I know this is

sounds really dopey to say but I

sometimes have a sense of a guardian

angel of some kind of why did this guy

talk to me in the parking lot and why

was he such a kind decent human being?

Um throughout my life I have had

opportunities presented to me and I had

enough intuition and enough uh

intelligence maybe to follow it. But I

do think I think about it all the time.

uh

all the ways

that are imperceptible in the Tuesday

and Wednesday and Thursday that they

happen, but where your life is kind of

guided.

>> Um and it doesn't really feel by your

own doing.

>> Yeah, I know it sounds wacky to say, but

I believe it, too. I mean, I don't

publicly profess it as the definite

reason why everything happens, but

there's a bunch of I think most people

that have gotten anywhere in life,

there's moments in their life like how

did that happen? Like what why did this

feel like it was a a destined path? Like

why why was I compelled to try this?

What was the what was the thought behind

that? And what am I being guided? Is

there is fate real?

I wonder how other people feel. But I do

think one of the keys

I think that probably everybody has a

path that is there for them. And the

trick about knowing yourself, the value

in taking time to like be still with

yourself and listen to yourself, you

know that there's an expression, the

voice of our spirit is extremely gentle.

Uh it's it's difficult to hear it. It's

quiet.

>> Yeah.

>> But if you can hear it, that thing,

intuition, that thing, the path, idea of

a guardian angel, whatever, you can see

what's happening around you if you're in

touch with yourself. And if you're not

in touch with yourself, you keep

tripping on the same. You're not seeing

the angles and the roads that might be

available to you.

>> So, I do think that part of the trick

is taking time to to actually get to

know yourself so that you can see the

light when it appears because I bet you

everybody has it.

>> I bet they do, too. I bet there's also

a real factor in recognizing the misery

of your mother's life, what she was

doing where she didn't take these

chances. She didn't She had

responsibility.

She was

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>> So, she was 18 when I was born, right?

So that's that's tough. You don't really

have a childhood. Right.

>> Right.

>> And but in her mid4s,

she took it. She joined the Peace Corps

in her mid-40s after I you know once I

was okay and it was right around the

time my oldest Maya was born.

>> So you single single child?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I was a

big part of her

on her brain a lot worrying. It was a

big, "Is this kid gonna be all right? Is

this kid gonna be all right?" It makes a

lot of noise in your head, you know.

>> Sure.

>> And um and I was all right. And she

looked around and I remember her saying

that, you know, if if an accident

happened today, when they do happen and

I died, I would be extremely

disappointed in myself. She was

probably, I don't know, 46 or something

when she said this, younger than I am

now. and um and she said, "I don't want

to be disappointed in my life." So, she

joined the Peace Corps, which she wasn't

all that impressed with, but they sent

her to uh Romania, and she fell in love

with Romania, and she fell in love with

um the people there, and she got

obsessed with the racism against the

gypsy culture, um the Roma culture, I'm

supposed to call it. Um, and

it reminded her a lot of growing up here

in the 60s, um, and the racism she saw

as a young girl. And she just decided to

do something about it. She spent 25

years there and she got thousands of

kids into school who wouldn't have gone

to school. She just recently retired

back to Fort Worth. And it's she's a

different woman than the woman I grew up

with. Um, which is I think a remarkable

story. I I love both the women. The

woman the woman now and the woman I grew

up with. I don't want to paint some

portrait that she was miserable. She had

so much she just was miserable at work,

>> right?

>> You know, she was not a miserable person

to be with the opposite.

>> Um, and she kept that fire in herself

alive enough to when the window

presented itself, she took it and she

took it hard. I mean, she disappeared

for a quarter of a century to Romania as

a young woman born in Fort Worth, right?

And that's a wild thing to do. and she

made a huge impact and I'm extremely

proud of her and proud of the work that

she's done and so is everybody who knows

her. Um, and and now she's in Fort Worth

doing her thing and has a different

sense of herself because she followed

her own intuition and her own path. It

just she had to deal with the

responsibility of raising a child for a

long time.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, that that develops a

different kind of character, too.

you know, the the character of a woman

trying to raise a child and also a boy,

you know, I I have all daughters and I

think

>> You do? Yeah. I have three daughters and

one boy. Yeah.

>> You know, all my friends who have boys

like, dude, it is so much harder. It's

just that you just trying to keep them

from burning the house down.

>> Yeah. It was a pain. That was a huge

course. And if you're a single child,

you know, but I she must have gotten

some inspiration from your path, from

your choices.

>> I wonder fact that you went for it.

>> You have to ask her.

>> I think

she had in her own way went for it

because everybody told her not to have a

baby and she wanted to

>> and she didn't want to run with the

pack. Now, she didn't I think when

you're 18, you don't understand the

ramifications of the decision of having

a child,

>> right?

>> You know, how you know permanent, you

know, I remember she told me when Maya

was born, well, congratulations. You

know, you now have something to worry

about the rest of your life,

you know. Yeah. I think it's a gift

though. it I mean I I certainly think it

changes you as a human being in

in my case the most positive ways

possible. Um I could imagine being a

single mother though it's a much more

difficult

position to be in

>> and there's a lot of pressure on women.

You know,

>> sure.

>> You know, if I I if you work, you're a

bad mother. If you're just a

stay-at-home mom, you're not a good,

strong woman. You know, I mean, they're

damned if they do, they're damned if

they don't. That's the position they get

put in.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's it

all those experiences when as an actor I

mean one of the more fascinating things

to me about watching people is how they

can assume different identities like and

and how critical is it to have had so

many different people in your life and

different life experiences to draw from

to try to understand things through

their eyes. If you're a regular person

running through if you're a stock broker

you're running through the world

thinking like a stock broker. You're not

you're not thinking, well, what would it

be like to be a janitor? Like, what is

it like to be this guy who's trying to

raise a family and he's got a a drug

dealer in his neighborhood that's

causing problems and your life is this

constant state of drama? Like, you're

drawing from all these different

experiences. having had

like not I mean I wouldn't say it's your

life was complicated but it sounds like

you have a really good mom but

complicated like and not necessarily

that stable in that way. you're young

and you're, you know, you're trying this

thing out and you're going off to

Hollywood and then you're coming back

and going to college, like having all

these different bizarre interactions

with people and life experience. How

much do you draw upon that when you're

trying to like create a character?

>> Well, that's a really big question. Um,

it

>> is well, so I have to break it into

parts.

>> It started getting bigger as I was

asking.

>> Yeah. Yeah. is it's kind of two parts,

but the the first part about drawing on

a character is touching on my favorite

aspect of my life in my job. Most

people, if you're an actuary, you're an

actuary. You think in numbers, you think

in this, this is, and it's your job. You

have to, you know, you I have um I got

to play a World War II vet. I got taken

out to basic training. I got to read

World War II veterans journals over and

over again. I got to wear the clothes

they wore. Um, I was working on that

movie for a few months, reading all

kinds of books, watching documentaries

about that. Then that movie is over.

Moving on. Now I'm going to get cast as

a LA cop. Going to do rideounds through

Los Angeles uh, in the backseat of a cop

car right when the crash unit thing was

happening. And, um, and I'm thinking

like a cop. And I'm not

it's not it's even it's it's different

than being a journalist and writing

about it. I'm really trying to imagine

being them. And I'm not looking at it

from a judgmental point of view. I don't

have an agenda about whether they're a

good person or a bad person or whether

this army sergeant should have made that

decision or that one. I'm thinking why

did he make it?

>> Why did he make it? Why did he do that?

Yeah.

>> Right. I play a jazz musician, a drug

addict,

>> right? I'm not sitting there judging

him. would a bad person, you know, I'm

thinking, why do you do it? You know,

it's it's a painkiller. Why is he taking

it? Where's this music come from? Why is

it so important to him? Why does he

practice 12 hours a day? What what is

that about? You know, you all these um

characters are these invitations

to

a expand your own sense of what it what

identity means. Like what is who is Joe

Rogan, right? And who Joe Rogan is with

his mom is a little different than he's

watching the Super Bowl with his best

friends. Who Joe Rogan is at 40 is

different than he is at 20. We we have

inside of us so many aspects to

ourselves. You know, when you're we're

in in love, you you change. When you see

your child for the first time, you

change your your biology, your chemicals

start to shift a little bit. If you're

in a violent situation, you know, the

your molecular structure alters a little

bit and you start to realize that that's

not you and that's not you and that's

not you. They're all you

and and that's what performing is like

and you start to um see society and see

yourself and see a a continuity that is

really kind of exciting. I've had

if you don't get ruined by

oh breaking your arm, patting yourself

in the back or something like that. I've

met a bunch of older actors who've lived

really interesting lives that I've

learned. It's like I I once had dinner

with Vanessa Redgrave, this old English

actress. She she'd spent her life doing

Shakespeare and Czechov and Beckett and

Tennessee Williams. She'd spent her life

with some of the greatest minds of the

last 50 years.

and she

carries that with her. Um, she's

powerfully intelligent, powerfully

humble woman. And it's it's like

being next to somebody you really

admire, you know, a master craftsman. It

doesn't matter what the craft is, when

they when you take it to a high level,

it has a lot to teach you. So anyway,

that was a multi-part question. The

other thing that part of your question

is how did I stay balanced? And a lot of

it had to do with my father who um has

he doesn't care about celebrity. Doesn't

particularly think it's very interesting

and um not in a judgmental way. He

really cares about integrity and whether

you're a good person and whether you

tell the truth. And it doesn't it's not

interesting to him how much money you

make. Um, that's not where his value

system is placed on whether he's

naturally suspicious of people who want

too much attention. Naturally suspicious

of that in me,

>> which was good for me.

>> That's a good suspicion.

>> It's a healthy suspicion. Yeah,

>> he was very realistic about the chances

I had of making a profession out of

this. That's not a bad thing. You know,

everybody says it's so great to tell

people to follow your dreams, and it is

important to follow your dreams, but

it's also important to be realistic and

have a plan and take care of yourself

and and um when you say you're going to

do something to do it, to show up when

you're asked to tell the truth. All

these things that So,

whenever things would start to go well,

I had this person in my life that's very

important to me who doesn't place a

value on anything superficial.

And when we talked about why it's so

hard to meet young people in this

profession who make it, what starts to

happen, regardless of how good or not

good your parents are or something, your

circle

can get infiltrated with a lot of people

trying to make money off you. And um and

that's dangerous because they don't care

about you.

>> Yeah, that is an issue. There's an issue

of people trying to get you to take work

that you really shouldn't take just

because they're going to get a

percentage of it

>> or it's going to be good for you in the

next three years, but they don't have

your long term,

>> right?

>> You know, what is going to be good for

the 65year-old version of you, right?

>> You know, is this like you said, yeah,

if I could if I could have decided my

life explorers would have been a huge

hit. It would have been ET big. And you

know what? I wouldn't be here on this

talk show today, you know. So, I don't

want to be in charge of my whole life in

that way, you know. Maybe you would, but

it would be different. You'd be coming

out of rehab.

>> Oh, for sure. It'd be a Charlie Sheets

story.

>> Yeah, dude. I'd be on Marriage 18,

>> who, by the way, was a fantastic guy to

talk to.

>> I bet he was. Yeah, I listen to it. It

was fantastic.

>> Wonderful guy. Like a sweetheart of a

guy. A guy who went through the exact

opposite of what I'm saying is good for

you.

>> If you survive,

>> Yeah.

>> anything is a learning tool. Right.

>> Right. I mean, some of you, you must

have this. Some of the wisest people I

know have been through the 12step

program.

>> Yes.

>> And so addiction and misery can be an

unbelievable teacher if you can if you

pull yourself out of it.

>> If you survive.

>> If you survive. It's not um I wouldn't

wish it for my children. It's not a dare

I want them to take. Oh hey, one path to

wisdom is terrible.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

A lot of my friends died from it, but a

couple of them are really wise from it.

There's read a book. Okay. It's a I

remember it's funny even as you said, I

remember when I was about 24 um starting

to get successful. I met my friend

Richard Linkletter. Um and we were

hanging out in New York and we met this

really cool this guy we really admired,

fancy pants writer, really badass, you

know, you kind of just and we were

smoking cigarettes. Well, Rick wasn't of

course, but we were shooting pool and

this guy said to me, "You know what?

You're almost interesting. He said to

me, "You know what you got to do is you

go got to go down to Mexico and

disappear for a couple years. You know,

live life a little bit, then you'll be

somebody." And the guy finally went the

night, we're walking home with Rick and

Rick said, "Let me tell you what you

don't need to do."

What What do you do? Read some William

Burroughs. That might be a good idea.

Read some Hunter S. Thompson. Skip the

addiction path. Yeah. you know, learn.

>> You don't have to you don't have to do

it. You know, you don't need to.

>> That's that's not the path to wisdom,

right?

>> You know, it has worked for a handful of

people, but most of us, you know, I keep

coming back in this conversation, Jodie

Foster, how much I'm I read her

interviews because I admire because I

know what she's survived,

>> right?

>> But but she's wicked smart.

>> Yes.

>> You know, you don't want to you don't

want to place your bet that you're as

smart as she is.

>> Yeah. She's smart and also wise. That's

what the odd thing of someone who's in

like how old was she in Taxi Driver?

>> 12, 14.

>> Crazy.

>> I know.

>> Crazy.

>> And it's a very bizarre movie for a

young child to be sexualized and in this

very weird psychotic movie.

>> But what she took from it was this great

mentor in Martin Scorsesei. And she kind

of understood she was making art. That's

where the wisdom comes in. She's just

naturally precociously wise that way

that she didn't get hung up

>> on the the

>> CD aspects or the sexuality aspects of

it. She got hung up on who's this guy

Martin Scorsesei. What is he doing? What

is this movie saying? How could I be a

part of that,

>> you know, and that's how I think she

survived? But I I don't know the woman,

so I shouldn't speak.

>> Yeah, I don't know her either, but I do

admire her when I hear her talk. Yeah,

me too. And that's why I always bring

her up as the lone example that I've

ever come across of someone who's been

through childhood stardom that seems to

be like very well and put together.

>> Yeah. And she's still really good at her

job.

>> Yeah.

>> I know. Right. You know, it's like that

that become a caricature.

>> That to me is really exciting, you know?

See, if you're me, you're like I I look

at Jeff Bridges a lot, too. So, like

when Dead Poet Society came out, I went

I remember I went on this long talk with

myself. I was like, it was like sunrise

and I'd been up all night and it was New

York and I was about 19 or something and

I was just thinking about who had gone

through this that I actually admire when

I look at them and I admire and um Jeff

Bridges had starred in the last picture

show which was one of my favorite movies

and he was amazing in it and he just

slowly got better and better and better

and better and I was like all right so

it can be done. You know, this, you

know, he's got an amazing wife. He's

really super into Buddhism. I started

getting like, what what is it? He's

really into photography. Like, he takes

I I don't know him either, right? So,

I'm just I'm just I'm talking like a fan

here. It's not I don't know these

people, but I I watched him from afar.

It's like, okay, this race can be won.

And um and I've always thought I

remember I was so happy he won the

Academy Award for True Grid, I guess it

was. And and I was like, damn, what a

long slow burn he had. And he just keeps

getting better and more interesting.

He comes out with these weird little

books I love and I read them. And he he

he

>> he writes books.

>> Yeah. He has this book with his like he

has a mentor in Buddhism and they kind

of wrote a book together about the Dao

of the dude or some something like that.

But it's actually, you know, I don't

know if you've read the Dow of Willie. I

love all these kind of uh

to the left versions of sometimes I find

it hard to read the I want to read what

Willie thinks about the dampata more

than I want to read the dumpata myself.

>> Yeah, there it is. Yeah, the dude in the

Zen master. It's a great book by the

way.

>> He has a a mantra in it that I just love

which is uh row row row your boat gently

down the stream. Merrily, merrily,

merrily, life is but a dream. and he

talks about how valuable that song has

been to him. I'm probably misquing, but

it it meant a lot to me. And it's just

like one step at a time. One step at a

time. Keep keep a smile on your face,

you know. Don't forget it's all a dream,

you know. It's like it's a great mantra.

It is. And it's it's always

great to have someone who has gone

through it all and has come out

fascinating, interesting, and wise. So

you go, "Oh, it can be it can be done."

>> Yeah.

>> Did you ever meet Christopherson?

>> No.

>> He was cool.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I Well, I my secret fantasy is is

your job. You know, I I I wrote a

profile on Chris um I don't know 15

years ago now for Rolling Stone

magazine. And I I made a documentary

about Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward.

And I just finished a documentary about

Merl Haggard. And um I really enjoy

studying other people and um but Chris,

you know, his his life stories, do you

know what I mean? He was in the military

and then he gave up everything, became a

songwriter, and it's kind of like

imagine if

you know the equivalent is like at the

point of height of his career. It's like

imagining um uh if Brad Pitt had also

written a number one single for Amy

Winehouse and

you know what I mean? I mean I mean you

know he he wrote me and Bobby McGee for

Janice Joplin and he did. Yeah. Oh. Oh

yeah. Wow. And he was you know a

helicopter pilot. He wrote songs for

Johnny Cash and he was acting in Sam

Pekpaw movies.

>> He was in Blade.

>> Yeah he was in Blade. Yeah.

>> Um, but he was a uh real he's a road

scholar and a boxer. You would like this

guy. He would be right up your alley. A

real free thinker and um didn't trap

himself in any way of thinking and um

really fought for individual rights and

uh he was a great great guy. I got to

interview him and he he actually starred

in my first movie I directed too. So I

got to know him. What was that?

>> So movie called Chelsea Walls. I don't

necessarily recommend you watch it. Uh

you can if you want to. I learned a lot

making it. I I I like it a lot, but uh I

was learn, you know, I was learn a lot.

But Chris Chris was in it and he was

amazing.

Yeah. Having known people like that is

so beneficial in your life. They they

they're not just like inspirational.

It's like a mental fuel, a type of

a type of nutrient almost. It's like

having a person that you know exists

that's been through something has come

out amazing and it and is so not tied

down to anyone's specific identity, has

varied interests, pursues them all with

passion.

>> Having mentors.

>> Yes.

>> It's like, you know, how you going to be

a samurai if you don't know a samurai,

>> right?

>> You know, and you got to see the way

they tie their shoes. You got to see the

way they make dinner. You don't just got

to see the fancy sword play. That stuff

is hardearned. And and so I I'm not

scared of that. You know, you don't you

don't have to hero worship people. You

don't have to turn them into deities.

They're human beings. But when you get

to experience and see that people like,

oh, um, you don't have to lie. I knew a

guy once who didn't lie.

You know, uh, you don't have to back

down when somebody says that. I watched

a person that back. You can be a good

parent. You can have your par your

children say, "I love my dad." It's not

going to come easy, but it can be done.

And and so I like heroes. I have no I I

like I also like seeing older people,

you know, this not not the fixation on

the 23-year-old James Dean, you know,

but a fixation on, you know, the

72-year-old Christopherson,

>> you know, um, you know, pick whoever

yours are. There's,

>> yeah,

>> you know, Muhammad Ali. I mean, there's

so many amazing people that you can say

like, "Wow, life was not always a picnic

for them. How did they handle it?" Um,

and then you cannot be, you know, too

upset when life's not a picnic for you.

You can just ask yourself, how did you

handle it?

>> Yeah. And I I don't think there's

anything wrong with really appreciating

people. That concern of hero worship is

legitimate because I think there are

some people that will take a person and

change who they are and make them not

just extraordinary, but not even human.

>> Yeah, that's a mistake.

>> It is a mistake, but it doesn't mean you

can't love and deeply appreciate who

they actually are. flaws and all because

that's what we all are. And when someone

is extraordinary and they have gone

through so much or they have expressed

so much and they do resonate with you so

much there, that's a valuable person.

And you should treat them like they're a

valuable person. It's not necessarily

hero worship. It's just appreciation.

>> Yeah. Like I'll tell you, I don't know

why it just flashed through my brain.

And uh when I was making this film,

Chelsea Wallace, you have to understand

like digital video, it just came out.

this movie, The Celebrations, Danish

film, amazing movie. Thomas Vintterberg

directed it. And it just kind of changed

the rules. The camera was cheap. Like

movies were always so expensive to make.

And now you could just I was like, "All

right, I want I made this movie for

$100,000 in 2000." And I was like, "All

right, we're just going to play with

this new camera." And I talked

Christopherson into being. He was my

hero. And he can't he agreed to do it. I

couldn't believe it. you know, he shows

up and on the set and I had this

elaborate shot I had planned. I'd found

this apartment that was amazing. I hope

this isn't boring, but I think it's it's

a funny story. So, it's my first day

with Chris and I'm really trying to

impress him like I've I've ripped this

shot off from this French film I've

seen. It's amazing. You're going to come

into

>> you're going to he his character orders

a bottle of whiskey and the guy delivers

a bottle of whiskey to the room. And my

idea from this apartment, you could walk

from the living room into the bedroom

and from the bedroom to the bathroom and

then out of the bathroom into the

kitchen and the kitchen opened back up

into the living room. It was one of

those New York City square apartments in

the Chelsea Hotel, right? And I showed

him this path I wanted him to take and

he was going to turn on the lights in

this room and he was going to put on a

cowboy hat while he's talking on the

phone. And he's going to look in the

mirror and point the thing and he's

going to walk in the bathroom and flick

that light on and then slam the mirror

shut and then walk out and then sit down

in the kitchen right where he was, pop

open the whiskey and pour himself a

glass right as he says the last line of

the monologue. And he looks at me and he

goes, "Are you an alcoholic?"

And I was like, "Uh,

no, no, not really. No." He goes, "I'm

an alcoholic." I said, "Oh, okay." His

character's name was Buddies. Bud's an

alcoholic. Like, yeah. He goes, "So, you

mean to tell me I order a bottle of

whiskey, I'm about to fall off the

wagon, and I don't open the [ __ ] until

I walk through this room, turn on a

light, try on a cowboy hat, flip on a

light, slam a mirror, and then sit

down." I was like, "Well, I think it

would be a great shot." And he said,

"Ethan, there is no way in hell that I

can remember all those lines and do all

that that you're asking me. It'll that

shot will never work." So, what I think

is Bud's an alcoholic and he's going to

get his bottle. He's going to open it.

I'm going to sit down, say my monologue,

and drink my whiskey.

Okay, great. Let's do that.

There's also the terror of someone you

deeply admire not liking your idea.

>> Yeah. Which is your your your whole body

just shrivels up. You know, you know did

you know you didn't see the guitar film?

I don't give a [ __ ] about the guitar

film.

>> There's no way I'm going to remember

those lines.

>> But then to to finish it, I'll say when

he wrapped the movie, uh he was getting

he, you know, said his goodbyes and

everything. He was getting in the

elevator to leave and I ran out and I

said to him, I said, "Hey, listen. You

know, you've given so much this whole

project and I know that, but you know,

this whole crew is working for free,

right?" And

could I beg you, would you come in and

sing one song for us just like just for

the crew if for for me? Is there any way

you do that? He said, "Yeah, you got a

guitar?" And I said, "I do. I do." So he

sat down and he proceeded to tell this

elaborate story that I'm sure he's told

a thousand times, but it was such a

gift. The room he sat and told a story

about how he met Janice Joplain in the

elevator of this very building and we

and she [ __ ] me about four minutes

later

and I wrote I played her this song and

he's you know busted flat in Baton Rouge

waiting for a train. I was feeling by

his faith, right? And the whole crew,

everybody's crying, everybody's so

happy. I mean, he was just he was that

giving um you know, to to everybody and

understood what it would mean to this

group of young artists, you know, and so

but he wasn't perfect.

He he was a real dude with real issues

and, you know, um and I loved him.

Yeah, he was

I mean you think about what he did and

all the different songs that he

performed and movies he was in and

different things that he did. That was

an extraordinary life. Yeah. I I'll stop

in one second, but for some you Yeah, I

think you'll love this. Apparently the

legend Johnny Cash used to say that you

know that song Sunday Morning Coming

Down. I woke up Sunday morning with no

way to hold my head that didn't hurt and

the beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad.

So I had one more for dessert. Great

song. Okay, so Johnny Cash had a number

one single out of this song and Johnny

Cash would tell the story how um Chris

was flying helicopters offshore oil and

he landed in Johnny Cash's front yard

with a beer in one hand and the song in

the other on his helicopter and said,

"Damn it, you got to listen to my song."

And I listened to it and went straight

to number one. That's the story that you

know cash would tell. And I asked Chris

about it and he said, "Have you ever

flown a such and such chopper?" And I

said, I said, "No, I haven't." He goes,

"There ain't no way in hell you can fly

that thing with beer in one hand and a

cassette in the other."

That story, I don't know where he came

up with that story.

He's just trying to help out my career

and make a legend out of me, too. But

but no, no, I just I sent it to him via

air mail. You know,

>> for a person that watches movies, I've

done a small amount of acting, but

I'm not good at it. For a person who

watches movies, there's a thing that

happens like a hypnosis. When someone is

a really good actor where they become

that person, and even though I know it's

Ethan Hawk, I know it's fill in the

blank, Daniel D. Louis, I know. I know

who it is, but it's not them at this

moment. They're so good that they've

convinced me that they're this other

person.

What is that? Because there's moments

where I see a good actor and I say, I

don't believe them. I don't I think

they're phoning it in. They're saying it

the right way, but there's just

something in the air. There's a missing

connection. And it is the key to a great

movie. The key to a great movie is

everybody has to be in that [ __ ]

weird zone. That weird zone where you

become a different person.

You use the essential word in your first

sentence, which is hypnosis. I mean,

I've spent my life studying what you

just talked about. And um when you're

acting with Denzel Washington, the power

and strength and completeness of his

imagination

is hypnotizing

and it's an invitation to join him. And

a great film is a collective imaginative

experience. When you watch The

Godfather, you're not [ __ ] thinking

about Alpuccino or James Khan or you

think about Michael and Sunny and Tom

and you know Veto they I I remember I

watched the Godfather and I felt like

I'd see those guys at the Nick game

tomorrow. That's how we that's how much

you're not thinking about the music.

You're not thinking about the shots. You

know it's all one thing. All these

disperate elements turn into one fist.

You cannot do it alone, right? But the

best people I've worked with, it's like

the easiest example to show like for

anybody when you go to a concert every

now and then it happens. The performer

hypnotizes you and you disappear.

>> Yeah.

>> You you're you're inside those songs.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, you you're not talking about

those songs. You're not looking at them.

You're not listen. You are inside the

song. You're inside a dream. And

bad acting for me is glib. Bad acting is

commenting on the song. Bad acting is

slightly the feeling you're talking

about is when somebody's slightly

outside of it. It's very very hard to

do. And a lot of people um study it and

work on it. And voice and speech is a

huge I mean

this stuff is very it's way more

interesting to me than it would be to

our audience here today. But it's like

all these elements of what creates

hypnosis. If I if you were if we're

talking about the violin, there are ways

to practice the violin and I'm not going

to make somebody a virtuoso, but I can

if I'm a expert violin help you be

better. And I think the same is true for

acting. Acting is an art form. It's

beautiful. Um, it's some weird collage

of where

performance and writing and

all these elements, music, all it's all

a part of it. And when it's happening,

it's all effortless. And there's a lot

of work you can do to inch it to being

easier and to inch your scene partner

into being easier. And the ways that

they can help you and there's ways that

they can ruin it. They can break the

dream. Um, but when it's good, it is

like diving into a dream. And it's a

feeling that I got for the first time

when I was 18 years old, um, acting in

Dead Poet Society. And it it was a

feeling was it was seconds long.

I mean, it was not much, but a feeling

of disappearing. And and that's the

irony I always feel about acting is that

you know people think about actors and

they see these pictures in the red

carpet or something they think that's

what acting is. You know what it really

is. It's a life of that's completely

antithetical to that of trying to

disappear. It it feels like the

celebration of the self, the celebration

of the personality, the but when you're

doing a scene with Philip Seymour

Hoffman, you know, um it's not Phil

that's talking to you, you know, it's

it's

it's like, you know, in the cartoon when

the when the eyes go all squirly and

like and

then and then all of a sudden I'm not

me.

>> And if I've done my work right,

All of a sudden, I'm saying what's

coming out of my mouth is what I

prepared. What what's coming out of my

pocket is what I prepared. The way I'm

moving is what I'm prepared because and

I'm not thinking about it. It's like

watching a great athlete. When a great

athlete is makes a behind the back pass

to the guy at the perfect sec, he's not

thinking, "Oh, I've got a cool idea,

right?

>> I'm gonna throw it behind my back. It'll

catch him right as he's in stride." It

it's years of practice that have let

them know that I know where he is

because where else would he be,

>> right?

>> You know, and things that are at first

difficult become easy. Um, and then you

can even get better from there and get

better from there. But that's the

difference. People talk about, you know,

I love Daniel Dewis, too. I think he's

kind of the high water mark of my trade.

And you know, you hear these stories

about what he does and people say,

"Well, is that what you're supposed to

do?" And the thing about when people say

method acting is they really don't

fundamentally understand what the method

is. The method is uh an invitation to

find out for yourself what will unlock

your imagination. And that might be

going hungry for two weeks. That might

be sleeping in a jail cell. It might be

reading 25 books about it. might be

wearing a weird headpiece. It's this not

a rule. It's about how to unlock what's

in here and bring it forward. That's

what the greats do and find that zone.

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Eats. And when you're watching a movie,

it does the exact same feeling like I'm

there with you. Whatever you're

experiencing when you are in that zone

and you really are that person. I I'm

not just saying, "Oh, he really is that

person." I'm with you. I'm with you in

the moment. I feel your anxiety. The

scene in the God damn it, I forgot the

name of it. The film you did with Julia

Roberts, the dystopian end of

Civilization movie.

>> Yeah, exactly. Now that you said it, it

went out of my head, too. Um,

>> it's a great movie.

>> Uh,

>> all the Teslas crash. Yeah, with Msha

Ali and I behind.

>> Leave the world behind. Thank you.

That's embarrassing for me. I'm supposed

to know. But when when you said you

could remember it, then all of a sudden

it went out of my mind.

>> It's less embarrassing for me now that

you didn't remember it cuz I was like,

"Shit, I got to remember the name." The

the scene where you go up to the guy's

house and he pulls a gun at you.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm right there with you. I'm like, "Oh

shit." It was a great scene.

>> Kevin Bacon. Yeah.

>> Phenomenal performance because I [ __ ]

believed you. I believed him. I believed

you. I believed it was happening. And I

was like, "Oh shit." It was, "Oh shit."

Like, it wasn't like these guys are

acting.

>> That scene is exactly what I'm talking

about. Yeah.

>> Because that's Mahersel Ali, Kevin

Bacon, and myself in a very well-written

scene. And those two guys are so easy to

act with.

They are so they are is so easy to

disappear with them.

>> We did that scene over and over and over

again, 15,000 different ways and blah

blah. was always I always loved it. Um

and

you know I did I had a temper tantrum

that day um on set but I because

your body

you you're you're you're

winding your body up in such a way that

it's like a emotional currency or

something. You you you have this thing

you're going to spend but you have your

body doesn't know it's fake. And if you

do it right,

you trick your body into believing that

I'm begging for my child's life. I'm not

acting. I'm begging Kevin Bacon for my

child's life and he's going to decide

whether or not my child gets to live.

Right? And if if you can get that that

going,

[ __ ] starts to happen to you, right?

Things you don't plan. And and if Kevin

is good, which he is, if Marshall is

good, then they're doing the same thing.

right? He's if he gives me this thing

that I need, he's putting his wife at

risk. He's not going to do it. I don't

care about your kid, you know? And then

Mhersa has got his character in his head

and then then all of a sudden people are

actually behaving. They're not reciting

lines. They're not It's like I did one

of my earlier movies with a wolf, right?

It was best acting teacher I ever had,

this wolf because it was this movie

called White Fang, right? Little Disney

kids movie, right? But it was a great

teacher because I had to do these scenes

with this half half breed wolf and if

I'm if you're the wolf, all right, and

we're doing a scene together and what

I'm really thinking about is the camera,

you know, the wolf turns around, looks

at the camera,

you know, you know, when you meet

somebody and you know they're

self-conscious, right? You know why

she's why she's so tense? You don't you

just we're nonverbal. We can communicate

with each other. Animals pick up on it

instantly. If I'm actually talking to

the dog, the wolf, if I'm actually in,

if I'm present with this animal, the

animal interacts with me,

you know.

>> And um

>> especially a wolf.

>> Especially a wolf, man.

>> Yeah.

>> Damn thing bit me. Bit me that day.

>> Did it really? Yeah. Hard.

>> Yeah.

>> Why'd it bite you?

>> All right. This is one of the best days

of filming of my life. No kidding. All

right. which is a amazing animal

trainer. Clint Ralph was his name and we

wanted to it was a scene where I'm

getting the wolf to trust me and uh and

it's going to eat out of my hand for the

first time and so Clint had this amazing

idea. It's like what if you could see

from even from that shot how far that's

a long lens that thing

>> they put me on a little tiny island

where two you know like some two rivers

fork

>> and so there's a little island of land

right there

>> and so we put

see this wolf surrounded by water right

and and I this is flame this isn't the

the animal that I knew really well um

but we're the way to get it to look like

this we have not know each other. And I

spent all day out there with this wolf.

And whenever the cameras started

thinking I might have a chance of

getting to pet him, they would start

rolling. And I just talked to the wolf

and I'd walk around and play. And I just

had to try to be real with him. And he

started to like me. I'll show you. It's

not boring. And this I'm I'm getting

close because he's starting to like me.

We've been playing a lot. And he comes

over and Okay, you'll see he he you'll

see him bite me if you want. Um, but uh,

amazing amazing animal. But the point

I'm trying to say is I we I sat out

there for 11 hours with this starving

wolf,

right? Trying to get him to eat. Um,

ready, ready, and

Ouch. Okay.

>> That wasn't that bad.

>> It wasn't that bad. Well, it bled, Joe.

>> Did it really?

>> Yeah. Sharp teeth. But it didn't look

like he was trying to hurt you. No, no,

he wasn't. He wasn't. That's what I

mean. He He wasn't. He was

>> um

And so, and by the end of the day, check

this out, man.

>> I mean, it was one of the most

incredible experiences of my life. I

know it's a corny kids movie or

whatever, but but um

>> but it's a real wolf and he doesn't know

he's acting.

>> Yeah. And he doesn't know he's acting.

Yeah.

>> Right. And so, I got to be real. And um

I mean I wept when that dog died, you

know, um cuz

and I think about that scene if when I'm

doing anything,

you know, about being present,

>> right? And that's a

>> if I'm trying to get the shot, the dog

is not going to eat out of my hand. If I

actually want to say, "Hey, yo, you can

trust me,

>> right?"

>> You know, I'd have to give up for hours,

you know, and just sit there and we

didn't have a phone. I just sit there

and whittle or something and walk over

there, toss rocks for a little bit until

he got, you know, it was it was such a

fascinating experience.

>> Wow. Well, that's Yeah. You can't act,

>> right?

>> And you never can. You never can.

>> You never can.

>> You never can. And one of the things

about, you know, there's a handful

Lori Metaf comes to the line, Denzel

Washington, Sally Hawkins, Laura Lenny.

There's a handful. I mean, I could a

bunch of them. Philip Seymour, there's a

lot of great actors I've worked with in

my life. And what's so wonderful about

them is if you start acting,

what are you doing? Just just this kind

of kind of sense. Why? What?

>> Yeah.

>> Something smells weird,

>> right?

>> Phil was the best at it because it

wasn't it wouldn't just be about you.

Phil was amazing. He'd sit down to do a

scene with him and he'd be running it

and stuff and he just

What is it? Something smells bad. What

is it? Is it you? Is it me? I don't

know, man. Is it the cup? Is the cup

wrong? Maybe. Should I be sitting over

there? What smells wrong? Something's

fake. What is it? What's fake? Pace it

up. Let's try pacing it up. No, it's not

it. Still bad.

All

right, let me let me try this. And then

boom, the next day he'd scream at you or

something and everything would shift and

you know the smell would change in the

room.

>> Yeah.

>> And it was like he it's like we're just

shaking out what is self-conscious.

Something is self-conscious here.

Somebody's posing. Is it me? Is it you?

Is it the [ __ ] prop? Is the table

wrong? I don't I don't believe this

scene. And what it means is when you're

watching the movie, you the paying

audience aren't going to be able to

disappear something. You know, haven't

haven't you ever see you see a movie

sometime you're like, why is she wearing

that red jacket? Who thought that was a

good idea? And all you're thinking about

is a red jacket. It's just wrong. I

don't know why it's wrong, but everybody

knows it.

>> It's like getting a wrong note.

>> I don't necessarily notice with clothes

because I'm not very close conscious,

but I do notice what you're saying about

self-consciousness, and I don't

understand what it is. It's like this

untouchable, unweighable, unmeasurable

element that just exists and we know it.

We know it's real.

>> Don't you Don't you feel it in here?

>> Yeah.

>> When somebody's being phony with you?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Somebody has a big agenda about what

they want to accomplish on your show or

something like that.

>> Oh, for sure. especially political

people or people that have some sort of

a controversial technology that really

probably should be regulated,

you know, like uh I think what we're

going to be able to do is amazing things

for humanity

>> and they get that tone in their voice

that that Charlie Brown w

>> it's just a air of [ __ ] and I don't

know what that is and I I I it's

>> but it exists in acting. It certainly

exists in comedy too. I always say like

when I watch a great comic on stage,

they they take me on a ride. Like I let

them think for me. I'm sitting down.

Think for me. You're thinking for me.

And when someone's thinking for you,

it's just like you're you're you're free

to explore their mind. And it's

if they're self-conscious, you'll feel

it. Like I see someone tense like I have

a club and uh a comedy club in town and

when um new people uh audition there or

perform there, you [ __ ] feel the

nerves. You feel the nerves. And I'm

always like, just give him a few

minutes. Let them shake it out. Just let

them shake that. It's so hard when so

much is on the line to not be

self-conscious, to be present.

>> But you're smart to give him space.

That's always what I feel. Just give me

space. Give me space. Give me space to

be bad. Yeah,

>> I need I need space to be bad. And it's

kind of like in basketball, you got to

touch the ball. Let me touch the ball.

Let me let me make

>> Well, we've all been bad. So, it doesn't

mean he can't be good. When I see

someone on stage and they're they're

they're self-conscious and clunky. I'm

like,

>> this is a process. This is not this is

not like a rocket that when you screw in

the last rivets, you're ready to light

the fuse. I love watching an actor I

admire be bad.

I I love it. I love it cuz it's it's not

it's it's not a science,

>> right? It's not a science.

>> Sometimes you got to take a shot and

sometimes you miss.

>> Well, then sometimes you're going

through a divorce or you got a [ __ ]

drug problem or

>> or the director's an [ __ ] or the you

don't get along or they change the

script the other day or or you hate the

DP,

>> producer's a douchebag. And but what I

always I always tell my kids who are

really interested in my profession or

any young actor is like I call that

permission to fail is I don't I don't

give anybody

my I don't have permission to fail. You

know you I don't care if you don't like

the first ad. I don't care if you don't

like this this cannot give them that uh

ability. I still fail. I'm not saying

that, but I I don't want to seed it,

>> you know. It's then and um but that

takes time. I I spent the first 15 years

of my career saying, "I didn't do a good

job because that guy was a jerk or I

didn't do a good job because they

changed the script or I didn't do a good

job because of this, that, and the other

thing." And then you see people like

back to our hero thing, you know, then

you see people who are really good and

they don't they don't Robert Dairo

doesn't give somebody the ability to

screw up his workday. They don't have

that power.

>> He He takes responsibility for that

power.

>> Is that a learn thing or is that is you

could certainly learn some of it from

watching other people, but is that just

an experience thing?

>> I think it's a it's the right

manifestation of confidence, right?

Young people have to fake confidence.

They just have to. When you watch a

young person in your club, they got to

fake it. They of course they're going to

have to go burn through their nerves.

They're going to have to. But once you

have experience, you can have real

confidence because you've fought this

battle before. I know I have a certain

if I'm overwhelmed with if my nervous

system is at war with myself, I have a

certain process. I can

I've I've walked these woods before. You

know, I I I know why I'm lost and I know

what I need to do. Um and it doesn't

mean I'll always work through it, but it

I'm much more likely to than I was 20

years ago.

>> Yeah. Um it's knowing that it's this

process when you watch younger people do

it. Do you ever like are you ever

working with a young person and it's not

clicking somehow and you you're trying

to figure out how to help them? Like is

there a thing you can say to them? Is

there

can you just do it by example only?

Well, you example's the best the best

teacher is example. Um, unasked for

advice is never heard from. The problem

with young people is they don't often

ask for advice,

>> right?

>> They think they're trying so hard to

pretend like they know everything that

they feel like to ask advice is

>> I kind of feel like that's a

generalization though because I do know

a lot of young people that do ask

advice.

>> All right. Well, one of the my thing is

I can't I cannot believe the amount of

young people who show up on set with

their phone.

>> Oh, yeah. And what what you were saying

about hypnosis, let me tell you what's a

destroyer

>> of collective imagination.

>> Yeah.

>> Is is our phones.

>> I was reading an article today and I

think it was psychology today about um a

study that they've done um recently on

the impact of social media on cognitive

function for children and that it's just

[ __ ] nuking their brain. Ning I have

a 15year-old and a 17-year-old and a

28-year-old. So what is your like

because my wife and I go through this

all they want it so bad and you as a

parent you want them to be happy and all

their friends have Instagram. I know it

destroys my brain.

>> How could it not hurt theirs? I find my

own powers of concentration are

suffering. I'll be reading a book which

I used to do all the time and every 10

pages I take a break to look at my

phone. What's happening? Why am I doing

this?

>> Right? you you know what what so but

they want it so bad yeah

>> and I want them to be how do you handle

that

>> I do not put restrictions on my

children's use of social media but we do

have discussions about it because I

think it is an inexraable part of modern

society and I think there is a social

ostracization that comes from

eliminating social media telling your

kid they can't have a phone I see it in

other kids I don't think that's the

solution

My daughter is loving you right now. She

is just like, see, cuz she says, "Let me

be, teach me to be responsible for it

myself."

>> Help me do that. That's what I believe.

>> And and you know, when we were thinking

about what restrictions we were going to

do, we went on this walk with this

really good friend of mine, Richard

Linkladder, is an amazing person. And

they tried to my daughters hit him up of

what he thinks. He said, "I don't know.

All I know is that the most important

thing is to be your own best friend.

>> And that this is a slight obstacle to

it. That boredom, boredom and sitting

still with yourself

is a membrane you kind of have to pass

through. And if you can make best

friends with yourself, then your best

friend is always with you. And so that's

been my solution too is to say, "All

right, let's all there aren't

limitations, but let's all sit down and

look at I'll I'll show you how much I

looked at it. How much did you look at

it? How we doing? Do you feel is it

helping? Is it hurting?" Because what

you're a thousand% right about is it's

part of the social structure of their

lives.

>> Yeah. and to isolate them from it is to

has has you can't pretend that doesn't

have negative side effects.

>> Well, one of my children, well, both of

my children, my young children are very

disciplined. And one of them just opted

out, just decided she's not going to get

on social media anymore. And she got

this app, and this is nobody forced her

to do this. She got this app that locks

you out and it shows you how many days

you've been off of Instagram. sort of

sort of incentivize you, you know, to

stay off of it.

>> You know, the last time she checked, she

had been off like 99 days or something

like that. No Instagram, no nothing.

>> Um, but

it is addictive. And but there's a lot

of things in life that are addictive.

And so the the question is like how

addictive is it? Like what what is

calling you to get nothing? Because

that's what you get. You get nothing.

you get these like tiny dopamine hits

like staring at something for a few

seconds like that's provocative or

that's crazy like why is he saying that

or why is that happening oh my god

they're going to die you know like what

I I have this terrible text thread

between me and my friend Tom Sigura

where we send each other the absolute

worst things that we find online every

day like every day it's guy got run over