Why am I at this point? And how the hell

is someone died

under my watch? You can't even go and

kill yourself. You can't even go and

hurt yourself.

You're [ __ ] useless. And I'm beneath

the surface and you can hear the thumps

overhead like

And I turned around and looked at Vice

and he went, "Fucking run now."

[music]

Wow, this is the most gripping,

inspiring, twisting conversation I've

ever had on this podcast ever. If you're

squeamish, I'm going to have to ask you

to prepare.

[snorts]

But even if you are, I'm begging you to

follow this story. My guest grew up in a

broken home, one plagued with domestic

violence, with abuse, with heartbreak,

and he moved to five, six, seven

different schools as he stumbled through

his childhood trying to find his way,

trying to find out who he was, and then

stumbled through his adolescence looking

for purpose in life. And he was met with

rejection, with pain, with confusion,

with barriers.

And as he spiraled into daily drug

abuse, into addiction, and into

purposelessness, a job that he hoped

would give him that sense of purpose

ended in a manslaughter case.

And this tragedy only caused him to

spiral further. And as he reached the

depths of his despair, he made that

decision one day that he was going to

leave his house, go for a drive, and end

his life.

For whatever reason, and thankfully, he

didn't go through with it. And by fate

or luck or faith or whatever you want to

call it, whatever you believe, a short

YouTube advert that popped up one day

out of the blue would be the catalyst

for him to pull himself out of his

darkest, most desperate moment, to give

up drugs, to overcome his mental

challenges, to brush himself off, and to

pursue his childhood dreams.

He went from suicidal drug addict to

elite commando, developing what he calls

the commando mindset, a mindset and a

set of values that you can learn.

But his story doesn't stop there.

His time as a commando is riddled with

graphic violence, with heartbreak, with

being injured by the Taliban while at

war. He'll describe the moments after he

was blown up and turning around and

seeing his friends laying there behind

him in pieces, and losing some of those

friends, being discharged from the

military because of his injury,

grappling with PTSD, finding comfort in

alcohol and addiction again, getting

himself in trouble with the law, finding

him himself in court, facing 4 years in

prison, and then rebuilding himself once

again, launching an incredible coaching

company, and working with elite

performers, Harry Kane, Gareth

Southgate, and the whole England team

before they went off to the World Cup.

And then the pandemic comes and his

coaching business collapses.

But in typical Ben Williams fashion,

adversity doesn't dictate his outcome.

Thanks to the values ingrained in his

commando mindset, he bounces back to

launch an incredible tech company. What

a wild, emotional, gripping ride you're

about to go on. Honestly,

congratulations for choosing to listen

to this episode. Without further ado,

I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The

Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody is

listening, but if you are, then please

keep this to yourself.

[music]

Ben, from doing this podcast over the

last couple of years, one of the things

that I've been reminded of, and an idea

that's been reinforced in my mind is how

important all of our childhoods are in

influencing what we then become. And I

studied childhood psychology between the

age of like 16 and 18, and it blew my

mind to understand, especially in those

early years, how that sort of

fundamentally shapes who we then become

as adults. And it's And it's in some

respects often quite hard to shake,

right? Um you know, that old adage of

not being able to teach an old dog new

tricks because we're so we learn most of

our behaviors when we're young. So, my

first question for you is

tell me about your childhood. Tell me

about that experience. How did that

shape you?

Yeah, my um

my parents had quite a rough divorce

when I was around

I think six, seven years old. Um and I

never speak about that divorce. I never

go into detail, never talk about what it

was, but it wasn't nice.

And we sort of didn't see dad for a

while. And then

the mortgage wasn't paid, and mom had to

take everything on.

And we had to move, and we went from

this lovely house to very small house on

a sort of council estate. And I think at

that age, I didn't

really see it too much. I I just it was

part of the journey. It was part of the

process. I didn't

recognize her problems. I didn't

recognize what was happening. It was

just, "Oh, dad's gone."

But probably young enough to just get on

with this. And it's funny cuz my kids

are that age now,

and I think about what are they

processing now? What are they going

through? How they seeing this? What do

they see every angle like?

Um

and then I think as I got a little bit

older and I began to

understand their separation a bit more

and how it was

not a clean break.

It

I felt like I was a young child who

almost wanted to protect his mom. I had

my younger brother that I thought I

wanted to

or knew I wanted to look after and

protect.

And then she found a boyfriend who

wasn't a father figure. And I I hope you

wouldn't mind me saying that as well. He

was just there in the background. So,

When you say it wasn't a clean break,

Mhm.

you mean there was

domestic violence issues or there was

It was uh

it was an aggravated separation. That's

pretty much as far as I'll go on it. Um

But we witnessed things. Mhm. We

witnessed things, and I think that stays

with you quite

clearly in your mind as you move

through. And when we go and move and

transition into this kind of new phase

of our life in a new house with a new

man in the house who wasn't really

acting up as dad,

it was probably the most problematic

area to be mom's dad and mom.

Mhm.

Um

And you can actually fall out with mom

cuz she's trying to be dad. All right,

yeah. And vice versa as well.

And I have probably the closest

relationship in my entire family is with

my mom because I recognize everything

she's been through.

And she's an extremely

uh resilient lady who's got herself to

where she is today.

But it is true, and listening to your

podcast and looking back on my own

journey, you see every single little

thing begins to affect you, I think,

later down the line rather than what

you're going through at the moment. It's

all about that process, and I don't

think that processing happens very well

when you're a child. Mhm. It's as I just

said, it's kind of next phase, next

phase, next phase. You know, then all of

a sudden six, seven schools later,

um and you don't fit in, and

you know, I'm not the broken wing story.

It

If you don't If you come to school and

you don't know anyone, you're the kid

they're going to pick on. Mhm.

Uh so, that was part of the experience.

And then

then you find your feet a little bit in

the system. And like my sort of final

school,

that was kind of my make or break

moment, and I think I went more towards

break.

You said that when you're young, you

don't really know what things mean. So,

you're kind of experiencing them, but

you're not like consciously processing

them.

Yeah. But they are still sitting with

you and having an impact on your world

view. They're They're [ __ ] telling you

what a relationship looks like and what

a relationship with your your siblings

or someone else or authority looks like,

for example. But you don't have that

time to process it. And I think

as is the case in my life, I like didn't

process a lot of the stuff until I was

like 29 or like you 28 or whatever.

Yeah. Um and I guess that's the same for

you, right? It just feels normal.

I think if you've not experienced

anything before, what you then go

through feels normal. Mhm.

Oh, this must be reality. This must be

how we do things. And then you just kind

of

crack on. And I think actually it was

during my

military career and then being sort of

immersed in what that throws at you,

that I kind of describe it as like

almost the Eddie Stobart lorry,

something will happen, and you bang the

brakes on, and then everything comes

flying forward. Mhm. And that's what I

kind of found over the sort of

my mid-20s was,

"Why am I thinking of this again? Why is

this coming back? What's this all

about?" And trying to work out a way of

beginning to process what I should have

processed years ago.

Two about six or seven schools. Mhm.

So, you you were expelled or you were

moved?

No, we moved a lot. All right, yeah, we

moved a lot. So, we moved from Guildford

and then up to Beds area, and went to

some schools in Bucks, and it was just

house to house. So, we moved from school

to school. Um

which is difficult for a kid. Mhm.

And I found

I found myself leaning more towards

listening to certain music types such as

heavy metal,

very heavy metal, actually. Mhm. And

dressing with it. Right.

And I think back then, you know, early

'00s is uh there's there's a kid in the

corner with the black nail varnish on

and the spiky hair and the dog collar.

And he's new, let's throw eggs at him.

Oh, [laughter] wow.

Um so, I suppose maybe I didn't help

myself as well, but that was just it was

a real strange one cuz that's what I was

into. That's I still like that stuff

now. Um

Yeah, I felt like I wasn't accepted for

liking what I liked. You know, that's

how I kind of

didn't fit in for a while at school.

And is that is that a coping mechanism?

Was Was the music a coping mechanism?

Was Was being different in school or

whatever at some some form of a coping

mechanism? Cuz heavy heavy metal is

pretty

pretty emotional dark sometimes.

I think it is.

Uh

I think it does become a coping

mechanism.

I but I found it was the start of

things. It was the start of escape. And

it started with metal, and then it moved

to more

my space sinister things such as drugs

and At what age?

So I started smoking weed around 12.

Mhm.

Um

you know, I tried weed before I tried

cigarette. Weed got me

with people I always wanted to be with

or thought I always wanted to be with.

And all of a sudden I was smoking with

the cool kids and

oh, this is all right, you know? This is

I'm finally fitting in.

But it's only cuz you're all using weed

and you're all focusing on this one

thing that your togetherness is

your little unit. Um

but then

yeah, I think drugs took a little bit

more of a hold of me than I expected it

to. And it was weed for several years

and it it just got more and more weed

until I started to progress into my late

teens where I started to pick up on

other things which is when it all gets a

bit

cloudier.

Going into the clouds. Mhm. What age did

you did you start um experimenting or

using other drugs?

So

I think just to give you even more of an

insight of what I was thinking is I

think because what happened between my

parents and then not really having a

father figure when we moved

I actually began this sort of hatred

towards males.

Um

I just didn't like him. I just

it seemed like it was the guys at school

who had picked and then I didn't have

father figure and it was am I the male

who where is the male here? And I just

began this almost sort of

disliking to to males.

I started at school I started to have

anger management around 16 and then I

I was going to ditch everything at

school. I wanted to

join the Marines and leave and my mom

God bless her was no,

you got to stay on the path you're on.

Do your do your A levels and then move

on. And then if you fancy doing it, do

it then.

And that then left me quite bitter cuz I

was like I want to go and do this. This

is my destiny. I'm going to go and join

the military.

And that sort of no from her

was that moment where I was like, well

[ __ ] you. I want to do what I want but I

still stayed in school and it was like

what's the next best option? I don't

know why becoming a bouncer suddenly

becomes the next best option.

But I wanted to fit in.

And I wanted to live a more macho alpha

male lifestyle and I thought that was

going to throw myself in the deep end

and become a bouncer.

And so I managed to get my SIA license I

prepped for my SIA license which is the

badge you got to have as a bouncer

when I was about 17 and a half. The

moment I turned 18 I was on the door.

And very quickly learned what the real

world is all about. And it didn't go

very smoothly for me in the first

instance whatsoever.

So

to try and skip my almost youthful

growth I started injecting steroids.

I started on started taking steroids um

orally and then moved on to injecting

and then bulked up and got angrier

and a bit more difficult to be around.

You talked about wanting to be a bouncer

because it would make you feel like an

alpha male or whatever. Um and it would

make you fit in. Why why did I'm really

like intrigued by that? That thought the

where did the desire come from to be

considered an alpha male?

Whether in your own mind or to external

to other people. So I think it part of

it is the fitting in.

Is why can't you fit in? Um

around that time, you know

Lock, Stock was quite old but Snatch and

certain other films were out which

they were quite they were almost in the

limelight. It seemed like that way of

life seemed to be normal not normal but

what you should aspire to be like a

aspirational

Yeah, aspirational like gangster. Um

And I watched a bit too much of that,

you know, I read Lenny McLean's book and

Roy Shaw's book and so

Oh, you got to be hard to fit in in this

world.

But I take that take you that moment

where

it was basically mom said no, you're not

joining the Marines till you're 18 or at

least do your A levels.

When we did sort of begin to have every

fortnight weekend with dad again

the Marines

museum is somewhere he used to take us.

We also went to the parachute regiment

and to the Imperial War Museum. He used

to just take us around these military

museums for some reason.

I remember being a young sort of

nine-year-old in in utter awe as well

looking at these pictures of these

really

incredible people I thought because this

is what inspired me. I thought I want to

be a marine. And you know, it's back as

sort of nine years old, 10 years old.

And then when it's kind of many years

later when you suddenly almost pluck up

the courage to be like, let's do this.

It's a no.

Mhm. It turns you quite bitter and quite

angry and why not? This is what I've

always wanted to do and it and it does

feel like that. If someone suddenly puts

a blocker in the way of what you've

always wanted to do. Your sense of

purpose.

Yeah, that can that can make you

think in rather negative ways and I

that for me was when it was what else

can I do? This is it this out is it this

alpha male thing, you know, that's is

that what a marine is? Is what's the

closest to that then and where can I fit

in? And that's kind of what led me to

the path of

I'll go where everyone seems to respect,

you know, I'm not going to sneak into

the night clubs like we used to do by

putting our socks over our trainers at

17 to get in. I'm going to work on it.

And those kids that have always taken

the mic, those kids that have always

thrown your thing at me are going to

respect me.

And there I was 18 years old on the

door. Two questions. The first is

what did your dad do professionally and

was your desire to be macho

in any way influenced by um wanting to

also be accepted by him

at all?

I would want to say yes

but I think I'll say no. I

I don't know where it came from.

Mhm. I don't know where it came from.

Then I know my second point was there is

a stigma in society that bouncers have

power complexes. Mhm. And what you've

described there sounds like a power

complex. Yeah. [laughter]

And it's this this thinking that mom was

dad

and there was no other male in the house

apart from her boyfriend who didn't

really

really be dad to us. So do I need to be

dad? Do I need to be the alpha here? And

the older I got and the more I was on

the on the door

and the bigger I was getting

um

and I was working five nights a week,

you know,

this was my full-time job. And you were

getting feedback and validation from

Yeah. women and

Yeah, and and you know, you get into the

you get into the fights, you you you get

better at it. You get more switched on

to it. You get more aggressive with it.

And all of a sudden that validation

comes in you think, yeah, well maybe

this is my purpose. Maybe I am supposed

to be here.

Um and you don't see the animal you're

becoming.

Even at that age you you can be 20 years

on a door or you can you can do it

within a couple of years. If you start

doing it every night and becoming

almost laser focused on being there for

the violence

then you're an animal. It's like the

frog in the frying pan gradually being

Yeah. cooked it doesn't realize.

good way of putting it. Yeah. I it's

particularly intriguing to me. I've

actually never talked about this but one

of the people closest to me in the world

followed almost identical path. And they

went through school I I think in my view

lacking validation probably in the top

four people closest to me in my life

lacking validation they then started

using steroids at 18 17 18 years old. I

found the steroids in their drawer and

then they went and became a bouncer.

And they were doing it for they told me

for the attention from girls on one hand

but then also because I think it did

something for their self-esteem and this

person is the single smartest person I

know in the world but being getting that

validation from being a tough guy on a

door and injecting steroids and going to

the gym and eventually he even started

doing some fighting like UFC fighting

stuff. I think was um filling a hole. In

your story though the

I read about an incident when you were a

bouncer that kind of changed everything

for you.

Yeah. I remember we had a neighbor

a little Irish lady she's lovely still

with us. She's still with us and uh

I think she knew the underworld better

than I did from where she was from and I

remember saying she said to me she

literally sat me down she knocked when

she found out I was joining

I was going to work on the door. Um she

came and knocked on the house and sat me

down. No one was in as well.

And she was like, you don't know what

you're getting yourself into. I was

like, I do know.

Strangely as a young male and you may

have experienced this yourself when

someone says you can't do something or

you don't know what you're doing you're

very quickly like, I know exactly what

I'm doing. I've watched all the films.

I've read all the books. I know how to

do a some sort of kick. I'll be fine.

And she's like, you don't know what

you're getting yourself into.

Okay.

So

she was right. Um there was an incident

which happened

uh at one of the night clubs in Milton

Keynes where

it was around 3:00 a.m.

and I was leaving the venue as literally

I was signing off at 3:00 and the rest

of the team was signing off at 3:30.

And I was literally about to hand my

radio in.

And there was just like this massive

scream down the radio. And we had a door

team I think of around 15. It was a big

night club and it was still pretty

packed for this time.

And yeah, there was just this sort of

scream down the radio.

And then you heard black black. And that

was like, so you had code red which was

like it's kicked off. Code black is like

we've lost control.

And you just kept hearing black black

down the down the mic. And I was with a

friend of mine, uh another one of the

doormen,

and we were literally like,

"What should we do?" We just chucked the

radios and ran to where it was. And we

ran down the fire exit.

Um

it's in the escape building. Don't know

if you know the escape building in

Milton Keynes. It's like it's just like

a maze. You go through one exit and

you're you're just in a maze concrete

tunnels.

And we were running

down the stairs and then sort of round

the corner.

And as we were running towards coming in

the back of this part of the nightclub,

the doors just bomb burst open. And

everyone just fell through. It was like

a dam of bouncers and people scrapping.

And it was just carnage. There was just

people fighting all over the place. You

couldn't even work out what was going

on.

Um and then I recognized this massive

guy

who earlier that evening had just been a

pain. And he gave me a massive kiss on

the lips and everything and like ruffled

my hair when I had some. Um

and was really patronizing towards me

and and just he he he put me in my

place. Um that's what he was doing.

[clears throat]

And then we were fighting. And it was

inevitable they were going to kick off

on this evening and they did. And

I just remember seeing like his arm

dangling as they as they were trying to

force him to the ground. There was about

three of the other lads on him, big

guys. And then there was brother and

then two of the people fighting in this

this area of the team. I just grabbed

his arm and he was just like

flailing me around and we I was just

slow slapping into the wall and then

back on. And then we all hit the floor.

And there was this almost like crunch

sound.

But no one thought anything of it

because he just he went almost even

stronger. And I just had this arm.

I was

lying there thinking, "Oh, this is he's

really trying to get up here. This is

going to get out of control." And you

could hear his brother screaming down

the corridor who was a big lad himself.

Um

and we were probably on the floor

probably about a minute trying to subdue

him. You know, "Calm down. Calm down."

Um

and his face was facing back across me.

And it was just staring at the wall.

And then I noticed some sort of pooling

underneath his head. And uh

it just didn't look right. The blood

itself was not a nosebleed. It was

purpley.

I just said

said to one of the lads, I was like,

"I don't [ __ ] think he's well."

And everyone literally just massive

breath came off him and he was still

lying there. Didn't get up.

And then um

one of the bouncers was a fireman.

And he was like, "Right, roll him over."

And then began

trying to resuscitate him.

But to no avail. And he'd passed away

there and there on the spot.

Remember standing there

watching it all unfold suddenly

going from this big alpha male, we're

here to fight,

to

what the [ __ ] has just happened?

And then they closed the club.

And they nicked everyone. And then we

were on manslaughter charges for about a

year as they tried to determine what had

happened.

Um

he'd lost his life, you know.

As a man had come into a nightclub,

whether he was a pain or not, had lost

his life. And worse than that, uh

five kids had lost their dad

through an act of violence.

Through actually no one's fault. He

fell. And the way everyone landed on him

unfortunately broke a bone in his neck

which

caused him to go away. And it was um

it was put down as an accidental death.

There was no malice in it. There's guys

trying to defend themselves and

and the court recognized that. And I'm

glad of that as well because

things like that don't always get

recognized. And people all do

get in trouble for defending themselves.

Um but for me it was a serious point in

my life where I thought,

"Wow.

We're we're we're not in deep here.

We're [ __ ] way past deep."

Um

which became quite a hard thing to deal

with. And then you lose your job.

And by that point I was already using

cocaine and steroids and you're trying

to keep up this addiction.

And all of a sudden it becomes an

escape. And then you can't afford the

steroids. You see yourself get skinnier

and it's what do I need to do? I just

I'll just do more I'll just do more

coke. Coke's so expensive and smoking

more and more weed.

And I just became extremely lost, you

know. I was uh

I was cleaning school toilets at one

point cuz I that was the only job I can

get was to be a cleaner.

And for me I felt like I was

very much lying on rock bottom.

You lose your sense of purpose at that

point, right? Like you lose your sense

of orientation. And this I've you know,

in writing my book and in doing tons of

studying over the last 2 years, I've

really grown to understand the

importance of especially men having a

sense of purpose and orientation.

And as I did some reading about why the

life expectancy has dropped over the

last 2 years in the UK and the US, I

think I've mentioned this before. Um the

data suggests that it's because of

opioid addiction. And then you say, "Why

are people getting more addicted to

opioids?" And the data suggests because

men specifically are losing their sense

of purpose. And I think Jordan

Peterson's the one that says there's a

purposelessness epidemic sweeping the

world, which is why the life expectancy

has started to decline. And it sounds

exactly like that. When I when I read

that in your story and as you've said it

then,

sounds like one of the the worst things

that that can happen to someone, a man

or a woman, is they lose their sense of

as I say in my book, their sense of like

chaos. Because that chaos and that

having stuff to strive for and aim for

seems to be our our stability.

Um how bad did it get for you at that

time in terms of drug use and and um

your mindset?

So

I've written about it quite openly in my

book. Um

I was using on Tuesday mornings, you

know, in my mom's spare bedroom. Using

coke, right?

Um

and it got really bad.

It got really bad to sort of daily use.

Always

that was it. That was all that the focus

of the day. I would either like get

cleaning work done or or if I wasn't

doing that I'd just be like, "Oh, soon

my mate." I I literally had two mates

which I did it with. And I just wait for

them to finish work and then we'd go and

pick up and then we'd go and sit in my

car so until

midnight. We sat there just looking at

the stars thinking it's a chill sesh.

Really just [ __ ]

Um

And it was on one of those very lonely

days where I just sort of thought,

"I don't even know who I am."

And actually I have a a girlfriend at

the time who's now my wife. You want to

meet a resilient woman.

[laughter]

My wife has put up with me for so many

years.

I've got a lovely family.

And yet here I am sat with like half

pulled blinds,

[ __ ] everywhere in my room,

no purpose, don't know where I'm going

in life,

taking drugs.

What the why? Like I'm from a nice

background. Why am I at this point? And

how the hell has someone died

under my watch? How's this even

happened?

And for me that kind of was

a moment of

I've just got to give up.

So I took the I took the Coors Light

which I shared with my brother.

And I just went for a drive. And I had

it in my head this sort of ambition that

I was just going to go and drive off

something or drive into something or

go and do something stupid.

And uh

try and escape what I thought was this

internal pain.

But it never happened. It never

prevailed. I never

did it.

I actually ended up back at home after

losing track of time.

Sat there

feeling sorry for myself. Like, "Oh, you

can't even do that. You can't even go

and kill yourself. You can't even go

hurt yourself.

You're a [ __ ] useless."

Um

which lo and behold is when I sort of

flicked on YouTube, the old clunky

version.

[clears throat]

And that advert appeared and I thought,

"I don't know if it's fate. I don't know

if this is some sort of sign from

above." What advert was it? It was the

advert for the Royal Marines. Really?

Yeah. And it just came up. It was an old

advert.

And

it was just there. It just appeared as

part one of the videos that I should

watch.

And it was a young lad.

And I reckon he must have been about the

age I was at the time. I sort of

19, 20 I think it was at the time. Still

quite loose on my timing to that one.

And

he goes through he's going through the

endurance course, which is one of the

commando tests, one of the four commando

tests. And the endurance course is a

2-mile

bogs, tunnels,

um

just just just a muddy hell. That's the

kind of way I'd phrase it. A muddy hell,

yeah. [laughter] And then a 4-mile run

back to camp. And to get to that point

you have to have done the 32 weeks of

training. And that's the first test.

And I remember watching it and and he

he's running through Woodbury where it

is, Woodbury Common.

He's running and he stops.

And it said, "Would you stop here?"

And then it goes again and he goes

through the tunnel. "Would you stop

here?" And then they have this obstacle

in there called the sheep dip.

And the sheep dip's about 3 m long and

it's fully submerged.

And you have no control. What happens is

um someone will put you under. They'll

force you through. And then someone else

is the other side and they have to pull

you out. You can't swim. You just go

through like a torpedo.

And it's a bit dramatic. But this kid

goes under the water and he gets his

trousers stuck on some jagged bit of

metal. And he's like hanging out for

breath. And then it's going it freezes.

"Would you stop here?" And then it

freezes again and it does it again. Does

it like two or three times.

And then it says, "If yes, don't even

bother filling out the form."

And then the next cut scene is him with

his green beret at night

on

a speedboat or offshore raiding craft

just going along. No music, just this

weird sort of tone. It was like a

And then it goes, "99.99%

need not apply."

And that for me took me back

to that young child

in the Royal Marines Museum in

Portsmouth who was looking at the

pictures of old guys with mustaches in

the Falklands and the earlier acts,

people who had become something.

And I thought, "What else have I got to

lose?

What else have I got to lose here

than to just go and do it?" And

that week was a turning point.

So you applied? Yeah. It's I can tell

how much that particular video

influenced you and cuz you can describe

it. I mean, it must have been decades,

right, since you saw that? And you can

describe it in such graphic detail. I

still watch it now. Oh, really?

I still watch it now only because it

just

it reminds me of that sort of transition

in my life. That

courage. You know, I always thought that

I had a lot of courage. I think a lot of

men do. They What is courage to us? What

What is courage?

And it

was something that I thought

I could establish or find on the door or

in like a violent world and and be that

alpha male.

Whereas actually courage, now I look

back over my years, I look back and

think courage was the ability to go

downstairs,

you know, after sitting there for hours,

"Shall I? Shall I not? Shall I? Shall I

not?"

And go, "Mom,

you know you said no,

I'm thinking of doing it."

And she went, "Thank [ __ ] for that." Cuz

I'd done [clears throat] my A levels and

I think she'd grown tired of me. Yeah,

yeah. And I was like, "What?" And it was

like this just acknowledgement that yes,

please go and do that because we can see

what's happening here and you're ruining

your life and you're only just about

realizing it. And I was like the last to

the party in realizing I was the one

ruining my life.

And the other hard part was, you know,

my girlfriend who'd been with some for

some time,

who'd been through all of this up to

this point,

I'm now leaving her to go on this

journey and become a Royal Marine. And I

think that was for me the hardest part

to build that courage up and say,

"Can I go and do this?"

And she was like, "Yeah, I support you

with whatever you want to go and do."

And that was it. It was literally I

describe in my book like a couple of

days later,

I literally just threw I had a packet of

coke in the house and just threw it in

the

in the toilet and flushed it. It didn't

flush.

[laughter]

I was like, "Oh, fuck."

That wasn't as dramatic as I thought it

would be.

I was like, "Oh, cut."

[laughter]

Yeah, and I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] where

am I going to put that?" Uh admittedly,

I kept smoking weed for a little bit

because it it was my progression off

everything. But uh

you know, the steroids were done.

Partly cuz I couldn't afford it, but you

immediately begin to learn about what

being fit means.

And I remember this moment, I am

I didn't I didn't really have too much

physical training kit. I just had the

odd sort of football shirt and

horrible jogging bottoms lying around.

And it was a I don't know if you've seen

it. I think it's from Sean Penn, Run Run

Fat Boy Run.

[laughter]

That moment when he he steps out the

doorway for his first training run for

his marathon and he's all overweight and

he's like stretching off in his really

crap kit. Yeah.

I felt like that guy and I stood at the

doorway of my house. I was like, "I'm

going to go for a run. Let's see what

happens here."

Yeah.

[laughter]

But it was this

it was like the weather we have now and

it was just this hit of fresh air

and running and the endorphins and the

exercise

feeling like it was purifying me. I

thought,

"This is what it feels like. This is Is

this what success feels like? Is this

what progression feels like? Is this

what it feels like?"

And that was that week alone of just

feeling myself getting slightly fitter

and healthier. You know, simple things

like tidying up my room.

Um I was making myself homemade meals

like lasagnas and pastas cuz it was

carby and it felt like that was the

right thing to do.

Um

and then I began to to start the

application process and

yeah, it's about a year's process of

fitness tests, medicals,

all sorts of uh psychometric tests and

stuff like that. And

then you go down and you do this

three-day course before you start

training. You have to go and do a

potential Royal Marines course, which is

what I can only describe as a three-day

beast in where they just make you cry

for [laughter] three days and see who

survives it.

And um

I got food poisoning the night before.

Oh, [ __ ] Yeah, I literally through the

eye of a needle and out the mouth and I

was like, "I'm in a [ __ ] state. Real

[ __ ] state." Like a corpse in my

bedroom.

And I remember my mom's saying again,

she's like, "Why don't you get in see if

they'll move it?" Like in that momsy

way. Yeah, let's ask the Marines if

they'll move it, Mom.

I just thought I I've just got to go.

And I went down and I was last on every

test. I I managed to scrape the times,

but I couldn't put my hand up and be

like, "Oh, I'm raw. I feel poorly." Like

two, three days into becoming a Royal

Marine. It wouldn't have gone down well.

Um

but I passed and that for me was just

this incredible moment of

I've just managed to kick my

bad drug addict habits.

I think I've overcome some sort of

suicidal tendencies here to now be

passing a course that's going to give me

the ticket

to begin training with one of the

world's most elite and respected

regiments.

And that

I didn't need anyone else around me for

that one to say well done or that

validation. That was a look in the

mirror and go,

"Nice one." Mhm. How did it feel when

you got that? Like was that a letter or

an email or

It's It was literally there on the spot.

You know, you do the last day of the

three-day course and then they go,

"Yeah, you passed." Or they go, "You're

[ __ ] You failed. Off you go." And I had

this letter which said

which said you passed. You'll You'll

hear from your careers officer soon. You

also get given this T-shirt. I cringe

when I think about it now. But this

T-shirt says potential Royal Marines

Commando on the back. Yeah. And when I

see people wearing them now, I'm like,

[laughter]

And I put this T-shirt on and I was on

the train just like holding and it was

freezing and I'm traveling through I

actually came back through London cuz I

was living in Milton Keynes at the time.

And so I was on the tube just like that.

No coat on, just this T-shirt on. Yeah,

but I was so proud of it and I trained

in that T-shirt every day.

And uh

and then yeah, I got my letter in the

post saying you'll be starting on this

date. Uh get yourself ready. This is

your kit list. This is what you're going

to need.

And that day came round. But your mom

was proud, right? Yeah.

Yeah, she was really proud. And I think

my girlfriend was a bit confused and a

bit, "Oh, there he goes. He's off on a

journey. What happens to me now?"

Um which is why I work so hard now, so

which I'll come on to later, but

you know, being stood I've been sat on

that train

um

for day one of training.

And going from Milton Keynes and I went

up to Birmingham and then I caught the

Birmingham all the way down to Exeter.

I remember looking at people on the

train behind sort of newspapers and like

those glum sort of MP3 playing faces

with the

listening to their music, looking out

the window and sort of cheap suits and

you know, tapping away on laptops and I

thought,

"I wonder if these people are happy. I

wonder if these people are on the

journey I'm about to go on."

And that train ride in itself was

extremely fulfilling.

And then the Royal Marines training

center has got its own train line.

Which is super scary to turn up to. And

then

yeah, I pulled up sort of five hours

later and there's the first instructor

awaiting you. And you you walk through

the gates. You're carrying all your kit.

Quite bewildered, but I remember

thinking I've arrived. It's crazy that

you went from being I almost have this

visual in my head of this young man who

was looking around for a for something

and finding nothing in terms of his

purpose and then obviously going within

himself and using, you know, cocaine and

other substances to try and take to try

and escape. And then suddenly it's like

this North Star just becomes illuminated

in the distance and it's this what sense

of orientation and direction and purpose

for your life.

And um and that seems to be what, you

know, changed changed everything.

Obviously, it takes a ton of resolve

because

you know, the way you've described it

sounded, I've got to be honest, even

though you had these challenges along

the way between like the moment when you

decided you saw that YouTube video to

when you actually showed up at the the

training camp. But it's tough for a lot

of people to um

to even see the North Star and then

pursue it. And especially when they're

holding the baggage of like addiction.

And I just find that pretty miraculous.

I'm like, a lot of people wouldn't be

able to do even that part. Going from

addiction and suicidal ideation to

putting on those shorts and going for

that run.

Yeah, I feel like that's the that's the

biggest mountain to climb, right? Like

Yeah.

That was uh

I think that was part of the rush for me

was actually just arriving at the camp.

Mhm. And

um I'd watched a a documentary by Chris

Terrill

um Commando on the Front Line and it

followed a troop through commando

training, which was quite It wasn't an

old grainy one. It was, you know, a year

or so before I was going to go there and

I I just had obsessively watched this.

Um

and at the time Afghan had just kicked

off as well. And so they were getting

combat footage of what is happening out

there right now, mix of this training

and and I remember watching this

thinking, "I'm going to be there soon.

I'm going to be there. I'm going to be

there." And it took, you know, I say

years worth of sort of preparation.

And then I remember standing in the

foundation block, which is where you

spend your first two weeks with 60 guys

I've never before. All of us have shaved

heads, so we just look bewildered and a

little bit worried about what's next. I

remember looking around and thinking,

"This is the room they filmed that first

episode in.

I'm in it.

Wow." And you do think like what legends

have walked through here, what heroes

have come through. Everyone comes

through that door over there.

And I think even that itself was

a real moment of pride. Like I really

enjoyed the first few weeks of training.

And then it got quite hard.

That's when you realized, "All right,

yeah, it's quite a long course and this

is going to take a lot of resolve as you

say, but um

you know, those even those initial first

few days of just excitement and

looking around and just being surrounded

by excellence, you know, the values are

written on the wall, your

corporal, your troop sergeant, your

captain, they wear the green beret of

pride and they're stood there

immaculately dressed. I'm going to

become you one day. I'm

and we're having this conversation

today, but is something happened

in my life yesterday in fact, so this is

I think why I'm really dwelling on this

point of like how you go from the

YouTube video to putting on that pretty

ugly gear that you found and then going

for the run is I've got a very good

friend of mine who I know won't mind me

saying this because we talk about it

openly,

who is going through tough times at the

moment. He sounds very very similar to

the guy that you described who is having

those negative thoughts and was looking

for purpose in life. And I'm almost

searching for the advice to give him. I

think that's why I'm asking you the

question. Cuz he is that guy that sat in

his car looking up at the sky wondering

what's the point in living.

What is it that takes you from that

place to putting the shorts on and

saying, "Do you know what? I'm going to

do something for me for once. I'm going

to help myself. No one else is going to

get me out of this situation but me."

That bit there feels like the hardest

mountain to climb. Mhm. Uh

I guess for you it was that sense of

purpose and prestige and that was you

know, this had been your childhood dream

or like

there's also this quote I sometimes

ponder on which is change happens when

the pain of staying the same becomes

greater than the pain of making a

change. Mhm. Like when life becomes suck

so much that it would it would be it

would suck less to go and be beasted.

Yeah. [laughter]

Yeah.

You've got to want something. That's

what I

looking back

having learned everything along the way

it was

the desire to want something. What is it

I want?

Um and it wasn't the validation of being

a tough guy at all. It was to be

part of my dream. You know, and you

think back to that 9-year-old

he'd almost made his mind up on the spot

there that he's going to join the

Marines. And that kind of got taken away

and then I took it away from myself

anyway.

Um

and I think

almost further away it gets

it becomes less tangible. So when the

incident of the nightclub happens

and you find yourself becoming wrapped

around the wrong axle completely think

it's getting further away. I'm losing

control. I haven't got it. I'm losing

that thing I want to that that finally

that day of something that reminds you

to go remember what you want to go

[ __ ] it, I'm going to go and do it. And

do you know what I found? I know a lot

of people like this. I still have a few

of in my close friendship group.

Um and I've worked with a lot of people

like this as well.

Where it's actually the courage to go

and do it.

Somewhere in your friend's head he'll be

thinking something that I want to He may

look at you. Yeah, but you're

successful.

It's easy for you to say it. Look how

well you're living the dream. [ __ ] you,

you can't give me advice. And you're

like, "Oh, dude, come on, switch on."

In there somewhere is something he

wants.

In there somewhere is a desire. In there

is a child who had an ambition for doing

something.

And the older we get

what I found with my experience it it

feels like it gets slightly further away

and that gap gets bigger and all of a

sudden you've got to take a bigger step

or bigger leap. But if you have that

ability to go no, I do have the courage

within. That that gap closes. Mhm. And

it takes steps. It takes baby steps and

people think it's overnight. You know,

you may have found this, "Oh, you're an

overnight success." That's like 10 years

worth of hard work. You know, Messi says

it took 15 years to become an overnight

success.

Mhm.

That's because deep down in the shadows

those people which are fighting it every

day, the addiction, the difficulty, the

desire to go out on the piss with our

friends in the normal world, to do the

drugs, to eat unhealthy food, whatever

it is

is is that fight right there to go yes

or no.

Should I follow the easy option or

should I follow the hard option? And

sometimes the hard option isn't the

challenge. Sometimes the hard option is

the courage you have to build within

yourself to take the steps. You know

that.

Mhm.

Um

Is there anything that I could have said

to you when you were in that point in

your life when you were doing the drugs

and having suicidal ideation? If I was

your friend, is there anything that I

could have said to you that would have

helped you get out of it? Because as

friends and family members we're always

trying to change, you know, help, right?

And I sometimes doubt the power of

a mate turning into you and being like

pull your [ __ ] together, you know?

It it strangely happened to me.

So

uh I won't mention his name cuz he's

doing sneaky beaky things these days,

but there's a close friend of mine

Sorry, what's sneaky beaky? You know,

peering from curtains, working for

special forces and doing doing things

like [laughter] that.

No, perfect.

No, no, no, no, no, no. I can't do that

one again. No, he's not perfect.

[laughter]

Um that's why I won't mention his name.

Uh a friend of mine was within this

lifestyle I was within.

And

um

he decided to join the Marines. And he

got out of what we were embroiled in.

And I remember ringing him like, "What's

it like? What's it like?" You know, sort

of inquisitive about it.

And he just said, "Come and do it."

And for me that was like this guiding

light. It was

someone within my life who actually had

come away from what we'd all been doing

and plucked up the courage to go and do

it. And it wasn't some millionaire

entrepreneur. It wasn't my mom. It

wasn't my dad. It wasn't a really senior

Marine. It was a friend who was probably

about 15 weeks ahead of me on the

process, who's not even made it himself

and is still going through the hardest

parts of training to say, "Come and do

it. Come and give it a go. You've got

this."

And that was that almost that not

validation but that boost to be like

yeah, all right. Cuz that's a relatable

role model. You He's just like you.

Yeah, it's someone I know it but it's so

real. It's so hang on, he was with us 15

weeks ago. I know him. I ring him and

I'm like, "Wow, okay, I'm going to I'm

going to I'm going to follow in your

wake." And then

which in turn becomes quite uh

intimidating cuz your sort of social

group's looking at it going, "Well, the

Marines is really hard to get in and now

two of them are there. Mhm. One of

them's guaranteed to fail, aren't they?

Surely." And I'm looking at him going,

"Oh, he's stronger and tougher than I

am. Is it me?" And that sort of

creeps in every now and then, but it was

that role model to have.

So as you were saying that I was

thinking that people will now look at

you after being the Marines for you

know, almost 10 years 10 years, wasn't

it? 10 years. They'll see that that

Marine a decade in. They'll see Ben and

they'll think, "Oh god, I can't I can't

do that. He's you know, like he's a big

strong man. He's disciplined. He's got

this mindset." I like there'll be a kid

sat in his bedroom glancing at that

YouTube video of the you know, the com-

Marines advert thing and then looking

over at Ben and thinking, "Oh no, I'm

not I'm not Ben. He's all polished." And

it it's funny that it sometimes takes

a relatable role model to be the bridge

where you go, "Do you know what? There's

a guy that's halfway through the journey

who I know and I'm like him and he's not

special or smart or whatever or rich."

And that can that's the the bridge that

I'm going to use to get in there myself.

It's one of the things when I do the

podcast and when I talk about my story I

always want to let people know that the

guy you see now that can talk and that

can do this business stuff and know

social media was like an idiot who like

got kicked out of school, can't spell

still, can't do maths well, [laughter]

is just like you, but as you say, maybe

the defining thing was courage.

And that courage came from just a

delusional belief that I could.

This is what I talk this is why I wanted

to write my book Commando Mindset

because

I wanted to

um get people's thinking

that a commando mindset is a particular

way of thinking within our world. You

know, to have a 100% of the commando

mindset you have to become a commando.

You have to go through a process and

join up. Um

but everyone has to get themselves to

the gate. And I've become quite

interested in the getting to the gate

part to start

and who doesn't get to the gate. You

know, the biggest critics never stand on

the start line with you. They're always

the ones in the stand giving it the big

and aren't they? It's those on the start

line who get to the gate. Now I got to

the gate. And I was really proud of

getting to the gate. You know, how

cringeworthy but potential Royal Marines

Commando. Yes. At least I'm a potential

Royal Marines Commando instead of a

potential civilian which I don't want to

be for now. I want to go and live and

and

enjoy the world in different parts of

it. Um some you wouldn't go to holiday

on, but um I wanted to go and see it.

And that that for me was a really

interesting point and you know, fast

forward many years later I managed to

get the prestigious job of going back to

the commando training center as an

instructor and get to see those people

get to the start line

and see them go on their journey and

listen to their stories. You know,

you're a bit of a tough guy over them at

times, but listen to their stories and

hear them say that they had drug

problems and this happened within their

family and or this person lived on the

street for this long.

But now you're in my world and I'm going

to try and take you from

what you were

and turn you into something that we need

you to be

but you have the ability to be as well.

And that process seeing them go from

civilian to commando, and

that's

really empowering.

Cuz I get to stand there on the last day

of training when

they finally do it, and you can finally

call them mate. When

you know, it's a bit hard up to that

point. It's like

good effort, mate.

And you have a beer with them, and you

tell them a little bit about your story.

They go, "Wow.

I thought you were like this sort of

thing." Yeah, untouchable [ __ ]

Just Yeah. Yeah.

[laughter]

Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah, pretty

much.

But instead, they realize you're a

human. What is the commando mindset? Are

there principles to it? What's the

philosophy? You know, you talk about it

being something that we can all

sort of reflect on in our own lives, and

we can all have that commando mindset, I

guess, in the home or in work. What

What is the commando mindset? And

Well, we have an ethos that was the sort

of thing that

first jumped out at me when I got there.

And we have values. And the values is

pretty much what makes us um

courage, determination, excellence,

self-discipline, integrity,

cheerfulness, and humility. And um

these words, they're very human words,

aren't they? They're very You can put

that in almost any walk of life, and I

think people can acknowledge it and go,

"Oh, courage, yeah, I'm all

right. Excellence, I'll have a bit of

that. Integrity is the biggest one." We

say integrity in the Marines is your

virginity. You can only lose it once.

And so, when you have that way of

thinking, and you have [clears throat]

that ethos amongst your peer group and

your leadership group, um

you know, most of the time what's coming

out of people's mouths is true. And that

whether that's moral courage to say,

"We're the same rank, and you got to

stop swearing this, and you got to take

your hands out of your pocket, and you

know, let's set an example for people

who are below us."

Um to even, you know, being able to say

that to a a senior commander, like,

"Should we have our hands in our pockets

right now, sir?"

But it's this ethos within us that

enables a particular way of thinking,

and it's

when you're in the most extreme

circumstances, when bullets are coming

at you,

I remember my first ever combat

engagement,

I was We were in a quite a large patrol

of 12,

and we'd been on the We'd flown into an

area in the green zone, and told, "The

Taliban are here. You're just going to

have to go and find them." Which is like

finding a needle in a haystack

sometimes.

And we were on the ground for about 4

hours.

And um we always take an interpreter

with us, and they have a radio that

intercepts Taliban frequencies, so they

can actually hear what the Taliban are

saying.

And it was the first time I think I

heard the Taliban as well. You hear

these voices,

and it's quite squiggly over the net.

You can't really hear it properly, but

you just think, it's our foes. That's

Oh, [ __ ] they can see us as well. Where

[laughter] are they?

And they said, "We can see him. We can

see him. They're heading towards the

melon now. They're heading towards The

melons was their code word for

um

IED, improvised explosive device, a

homemade bomb. So, the Taliban are

saying across the radio that they can

see you.

So, they're talking to one another

saying they can see us, and that we're

heading towards the bomb they've

planted.

And you start thinking, well, maybe

they're trying to egg us on. Maybe it's

not real. We went into this farmer's

compound, and we stayed in there for

about half an hour to gain our breath

and have some water. And then they came

back on. They said they'd gone in.

Person They said his name as well.

They've gone in his compound. We'll pay

him a visit later. We'll get him on the

way out. So, you're looking at the poor

farmer thinking you're getting a knock

on the door that you don't need. Um but

also,

we're in the safety of this small

compound that we're going to step out

back into the open soon, and they're

going to they're going to see us.

And we stepped out in the open,

and straight away, we see him again. You

can see him again.

And you

again, you kind of are they trying to

pull our bluff? Cuz they know we can

hear them. They know they know we listen

to them. Um

And you kind of take it sometimes with a

pinch of salt, but you have to take it

seriously. But then we had assets in the

sky, which was a drone saying that it

can see fighting males coming towards us

all carrying weapons, and they're moving

down this street.

And that was like, okay, this is

actually real. And we hadn't been hit by

this point in the tour.

And this was about to get very very

real.

And your whole everything changes. You

know, the adrenaline's quite The

adrenaline's high, but it's controlled.

You You've got control, and you think,

"I know how to deal with this. Stay

focused."

And we came up to a ditch, which there

was It's almost like a T-junction ditch,

where one met another. And then to cross

it, it was probably about 4 ft deep. And

then you had to pull one another out of

it. And you get onto a track, and then

there was a wall, and the track sort of

went left and right from us.

Uh and about three of us got out the

ditch, got onto the track, and then just

a hail of bullets came flying down the

track, and they all spat off the wall

and off the floor, and off the trees

around us.

And what you're taught to do when you're

shot at, you're taught to do something

called RTR, which is return fire,

whether that's from the hip, shoulder,

whatever, just spray in a direction,

take cover, return accurate fire.

RTR.

I

nose dived into the ditch.

Don't blame you.

Yeah, like quickly as well. And just

completely flopped into the water.

My kit's probably weighing about 100 lb,

so I've just gone straight to the bottom

of the ditch. And I'm beneath the

surface, and you can hear the thumps

overhead, like

Split second you're underwater. Split

second.

But it's long enough to go,

"Ah, that wasn't the right thing to do."

That I've just done everything against

what I do in training, what I've been

taught to do.

You panicked, right? Yeah, massively.

Like, "Oh, [ __ ] someone's shooting at

us. What do we do? Jump in the ditch."

That seems to be like the cleverest

thing to do.

And jumped in ditch, and I remember this

thought coming through my head going,

"Oh, you [ __ ] up big time there."

Get out of the ditch. And I in that

second came up out of the water, and

noticed everyone had done the same

thing. So, I was like, "Right, Mark

dodged that one."

Um and the way we were looking was down

the track. So, everyone's sort of

looking across each other, down down the

ditch and down the track.

And there was one person still on on the

track returning fire on his own, stood

up. Literally, you couldn't make it up.

It It looked like that sort of Call of

Duty image, where he's just firing away

on the track.

And it was our commander, Vicey.

Um

and he just looked over all of us in the

ditch and went, "Check your [ __ ]

flashes."

And that is this

internal system, which just goes like

that. Because your flashes are what you

wear on your shoulder. And it says the

words Royal Marines Commando.

And everything those three words mean is

related to the ethos, related to our

values, related to those 32 weeks

training, related to every person that's

died for those flashes.

And we're all hiding.

And he doesn't need to say, "Get out of

the ditch. Come on on the track." or

anything like that. He just screams,

"Check your [ __ ] flashes."

And that's your reminder to go, "Oh, I

need to switch on and be a marine here,

as opposed to hide cowardly in the

ditch." And then we got out, and you get

into the fight.

And that's what the mindset The mindset

isn't necessarily just down to skill and

ability.

It's that ability to tap into what

you're programmed to do, what your DNA

is, what your value system is. Have

courage. Have excellence. Have

determination. All these things that

were just words up to that point

have true meaning for you to get into

the fight. Whether you lose your life in

that moment or not, you're there to do a

job.

And that's what it looks like.

And those values, as you described them,

go back to that list again. Courage, one

of them was joyful Not joyful.

Cheerfulness. Cheerfulness in the face

of adversity. Why is that so important?

That is the one that struck me the most.

I was like, that's Sounds like smiling.

You uh

if you don't laugh at it, it'll laugh at

you.

And I I I can't I've lost count the

amount of times where I've been soaked

in mud.

I'm absolutely hanging out, and you

know, a Domino's pizza and being at home

would go amiss. And you look over to the

right, and all you can see through this

these muddy faces is teeth, someone else

looking back at you, and you just go,

[laughter]

and you giggle, and you know, "This is

[ __ ] isn't it? Yeah. No, let's get on

with it."

Because

if you don't laugh at situations that

get tough, it is going to laugh at you.

And the moment it starts to laugh at

you,

you're going to begin to suffer. Now,

it's not

in the case of when people lose lives,

you're stood over there going, "Ah,

having a giggle."

But it is those moments of extreme

warfare, where rounds are pinging off

the wall in front of you, and you look

at one another and go, "Fucking hell,

that was close, wasn't it?"

And you have the ability to laugh at

situations maybe other people wouldn't

laugh at.

Cheerfulness in the face of adversity is

is what we all need. I've been saying it

to people all last year and this year.

You know, this is [ __ ] what we're going

through,

but if you don't smile in some way or

another, and find that sort of courage

to have a bit of morale within yourself,

it's going to laugh at you.

That's where your mental health starts

to take a knock. That's where you start

start to have that sort of negative

downward spiral. And that was something

I never had before the Marines, the

ability to laugh at difficulty.

And the Marines encourages it out of

you.

What were the other words again? So,

cheerfulness, courage, determination.

Determination. Excellence. Talk to me

about excellence. Why that's so

important? Cuz I know the From the I've

I've got to be honest, I I feel like

I've watched every documentary ever on

like the SAS and the Marines and

um the other special forces across

different countries. I I got so

obsessed, you know, when I was younger.

And one of the things that you see in

training is this obsession with the the

suit, you know, your uniform being

clean, and your gun being clean, and

things being in order. And it seems

like, from my outside perspective,

they're like training excellence and

organization into you. Is that Is that

why they use the word excellence in your

flashes? Um

you can never achieve perfection.

Everyone looks at the military as in

they're perfect. Everything's shiny.

Everything's ironed. Everything's clean.

But it's not perfect. If you If you

think you've got perfection, you've hit

arrogance or you've let your standards

down because

excellence is that ability to

continuously keep striving

towards something. Um, my corporal in

training said, "If you do not put what

0.1% better every day, at least you're

heading in the right direction." And his

way of looking at that was you could

have the worst day ever. You could fail

every test, but if you do something

extra that day that just boost that

0.1%, at least you're making a little

bit of a more positive impact on that

day than maybe yesterday. You can always

strive. And that word excellence is is

embellished in that. It's a It's the

ability to say, "I can never achieve

perfection."

But as long as I strive to do my best

effort, that's what excellence really

means. That the the ability to strive to

put in your maximum effort on everything

you do. You could be the slowest guy in

the troop and not be able to keep up

with everyone, but if you are hanging

out Always used to say to my recruits,

"I don't want to see you just giving me

the face for the sake of it. I want to

see your face that you are fully

inserted in the locker, then I know

you're giving me the best effort."

Because they're striving for excellence.

They're striving to just be the best

they can be.

Do we do enough of that?

We do in the military.

And that perfection doesn't exist. You

can't aim for perfection. You have to

aim for something a little bit more

tangible. You have to aim for something

that does exist. And what does exist is

the ability to keep doing it at a high

standard.

How do you

In our culture at the moment, there's a

narrative emerging which is like, "Oh,

at least you did your best You know, at

least there's a kind of a fluffy soft So

You hate it. I can see it in your face.

There's a kind of like fluffy soft It's

okay that you're not that good. At

least, you know, take a rest.

Well, you know, good is a good is good

is fine." Which is kind of infiltrating

our culture in a very PC, almost in my

opinion, toxic way. If I post this on

Instagram, as I've said before, I'll get

like canceled because people That sense

of like

doing less than your best and being

negative seems to be comforting for

people in a way that keeps their

self-esteem and ego

smothered with cotton wool so that they

don't have to take personal

responsibility.

I can see you're very pissed off. Go go

ahead.

[laughter]

Yeah, this podcast is over.

Um, my lad took part in So, I have a

boy, Zach, he's 7 and I have Layla who's

3 going on 18.

And uh,

he won a race in sports day and I was

like the marine dad on the edge. You

know, like, "Go, son. Come on. You got

this." And he's flying down and he's

miles ahead of everyone else.

I was like, "Yes." And he crosses the

line. I'm like, "Yeah."

And he comes running over and he's got

this massive grin on his face and he's

got a big sticker, winner.

And there's another sticker next to it,

participator.

And uh, I looked at it and instantly in

my head I twerked and I thought, "Rip it

off. Okay, good. Oh, they're handing out

them ones, are they?"

And um, he went, "Oh, I won. I won." And

he's over over the moon. Me and

um, my wife and I were like, "Well done,

mate. It's amazing."

And uh,

he went,

"Why did everyone else get a sticker?"

And he was pissed off. I was like,

And I could hear I could almost hear the

parents around me. I could hear their

ears turn towards me like, "Oh, how's

this parent going to approach this one?"

Hm.

And I did think in my head I was like,

"Should I go down there? Well, it's good

that everyone had a go and everyone took

part."

And then this kind of the stoic commando

went, "Fuck that." I went, "Listen here.

[laughter]

No one else should have got another

badge, right? You're the one who earned

that. That's the reason you've got that

winner's badge. Don't worry about that