This is the first podcast I've done this

year where we had tears. Um, and not

just once. And uh, I don't really know

how to introduce this conversation.

I guess I guess the thing I want you to

know is that things aren't always what

they seem. And um,

really that humans all feel the same. We

all feel the same emotions, the same

peaks, the same troughs. And no matter

what it looks like on the the outside,

things aren't always what they seem.

I'm Steven Bartlet and this is the diary

of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but

if you are, then please keep this to

yourself.

[Music]

Visualization. That's a very relevant

word, I think, to start this

conversation because in our last

conversation last year when I asked you

what you wanted to be remembered for,

what you wanted to do next in your

career, you told me that you wanted to

have a legacy for getting kids all

across this country up exercising and

really into exercise. Sort of similar to

how Jamie Oliver completely changed the

way we view like school dinners and

things. And I remember Jamie Oliver was

the reason I was eating apples instead

of Mars bars when I was younger. And

then

just like a couple of months later,

the pandemic happens

and you're getting millions and millions

and of kids in this country up dancing

and into exercise

only a couple months later. It like

boggles my mind. I've never seen someone

say something so big, such a big

ambition, and then only like a couple of

months later do it on a scale which

nobody has ever done it before. That's

what happened. And I remember when we

met and we talked about that moonshot

thing, the idea of like having a goal so

big and so out of reach that you feel

like you can never, you know, almost

never attain it. And that was my vision.

It was to have that legacy of making an

impact, you know. And I do think about

Jamie. He's had amazing success as a

chef, as a, you know, an author. Look, I

think about the Jamie school dinners,

the man who went into the schools all

over the UK and said, "Look, this isn't

this isn't enough. Our kids can eat

healthier." And I feel the same about

school fitness and exercise and PE, not

just about obesity and the diabetes

thing, but I think about our children's

mental health. And I said to you that I

want to have a legacy where I can create

absolute, you know, national change and

national um create awareness around

fitness and, you know, lockdown happened

and within, you know, 18 weeks that

happened. So it was almost like a

10-year dream happened in 18 weeks and

I'm so proud of that that I I've reached

that many people.

Take take me to the start of so lockdown

happens. Where does this idea come from?

Like what what happens? How does And

then I want to hear like when you saw

the numbers, the amount of people tuning

in every day and the impact it was

having. How did all of that feel?

It was an intense moment in time, but it

was also something I' I did visualize

and I did I had been working on. So I'd

been visiting schools. I on the UK tour.

I went to Ireland, Northern Ireland. I'

I'd visited schools. I'd worked out with

hundreds of kids in these schools. Um,

that Monday I was supposed to go on

another tour, me and Nikki. We're going

to take the camera, you know, it's my

brother Nikki. Um, and like I've always

said, there was no TV show. There was no

money. There was no budget. It was just

me and Nikki going and doing what we

love, which is connecting. And I suppose

reconnecting with the mission and

purpose I have because when it's all

digital, I do sometimes feel like it's

just numbers and is it is it real

people? So, I have to go and visit the

schools and actually meet the kids and

do it. So, on the Monday, I was supposed

to go out on the road. We had about 15

schools chosen and Boris announced, you

know, there's going to be this lockdown.

So, it was 12:15 a.m. I was laying in

bed on the Thursday night and I text

Nikki cuz I looked at my WhatsApp the

next day and I text Nikki saying, "I've

got this idea." Um, and honestly, I saw

everything. I saw a hashtag. I saw a

logo. I saw the name. I said, "It's

going to be called PE with Joe every day

next week. Do it. Let's just try it for

a week. 9:00 a.m. um Monday to Friday."

I announced it and loads of PR, you

know, loads of school newsletter was,

you know, school news letters were

tweets tweeting it and I was doing ESPN,

CNN, like global PR and I thought this

is going to be really big, but still had

no idea how many people would tune in on

the Monday. Um, and on the Monday we

went live. I stepped in front of that

camera and I was really nervous and

850,000 I think it was live streams and

I thought, wow, like if you think about

how many kids that could possibly be and

then day two was the biggest one. So day

2 was 954,000

live streams, which is a a world record.

Yeah. Concurrent live.

It was almost a million people watching

at the same time.

Yeah. It it blew my mind. And I I

realized there and then that that was

like families, that was kids, it was

schools. It wasn't like individual

people. So really, it was probably tens

of millions of people a day. And I felt

this amazing sense of purpose. Like I

was there for people that when they

needed me the most because everyone was

locked in. you know, whether you had

children or not, you were like confined,

you felt restricted, your mental health

was going to suffer that day. And I was

there like to to be there and just have

fun. And I never once, one thing I was

really cautious of, never mentioned

lockdown, never mentioned COVID or the

or you know, anything to do with that.

It was like it was a safe 30 minutes

where we could forget about things. I

put the music on, we were dancing around

being really silly and that was a gift.

That was my gift to the world. It was

just a bit of laughter, some feelood

energy, and a and a real boost in their

mood. When that finished, I know that

they were happier afterwards. And you

must have got a lot of calls from the

big sort of production companies and TV

companies wanting to like buy it or or

to to bring it to TV, right?

Within within a few days. So, you

remember I told you the story about the

Channel 4 thing. I was trying my hardest

to make the UK tour thing and a

documentary around schools fitness, but

they never had the budget that no one

could do it. Well, within a few days,

the head of Channel 4, like the top guy,

I can't think of his name, called me up

personally. He said, "Joe, what you're

doing is amazing. We'd love you to

stream the workouts on Channel 4." And I

I was like, dude, like I'm doing this on

YouTube. I've got kids in Sri Lanka and

South America and India and like even

like Madagascar and the Maldes taking

part in these workouts. I can't do this

on Channel 4. I need to be global. And

I'm so glad I stuck with that because

that really allowed it to go global. It

allowed everyone all over the world to

take part. And don't forget, I was

getting a million live streams, but by

the end of the 24 hours, there was 7 8

million views.

Crazy.

So total 80 million views on the 18

weeks. So 80 million individual views.

But how many families or schools are

doing that? So it's tens of millions of

kids and that was my dream. So I just

can't believe it happened. But I built

up that trust over eight years. You

know, as the body coach, as Joe Wixs, as

this missiondriven person, anyone could

have had the same idea, but maybe they

wouldn't have had the same reaction

because like I said, I've put out so

much love and energy and positivity and

visiting these schools that those

teachers knew I was going to deliver a

really fun and safe session for their

kids. 18 million people is, you know,

when you sat down with me last year and

we had this conversation, you said you

wanted to to do this nationally, right?

You said you want to get kids exercising

nationally. There's only about 60

million people in the UK. You managed to

do 80 million people all around the

world on a global level, but also at a

time when people really needed that kind

of energy the most. at a time when the

country was, you know, fearful and

people were trapped indoors and not

exercising as much as they they could

have been. So I, you know, we can talk

about the the pee with Joe thing for a

long time, but the thing that actually

fascinates me more is what happens

afterwards.

So you've just that goal you set out to

achieve, you achieved it quick.

How does it feel after? Well, you talk

about that gold medal syndrome, you

know, of people having this like coming

off tour or coming to back from the

Olympics and they have this kind of

feeling of like feeling flat or not

depressed maybe, but confused and lost.

And that's what happened. I moved into

this new house and I thought, I've got

this lovely house. Why? Why am I feeling

flat? And for the first two weeks I was

there, I was missing my old house in

Richmond because my children were born

there. PE with Joe was in that living

room that you interviewed me in. And it

was like this I left this energy behind

and moved into this new life. And I was

like, why am I feeling like this? And I

realized it was because I I'd lost my

purpose. I'd been disconnected from that

audience every day. Um, so when I felt

that, the first thing I do, I jump on my

Instagram. Like I said to you, I used to

do DMs and voice notes and I reconnect

with the messages. I read the YouTube

comments so that I know 2 million people

a month were doing YouTube um workouts

before the lockdown. I'm now getting six

to seven million views a month. So

that's real people that have changed

their habits that are still doing it.

Um, and it reminded me why I did it. And

also I had wonderful letters. So, I had

two two or three I'm going to say it was

probably near like two or three thousand

like letters and cards and things.

That's that seems mad, but I had this

stack of um things to go through. So, I

sat in my office for 2 days, you know,

laughing, crying, like feeling this

love. It was like this wave of love when

I realized what I'd actually done during

that time. It wasn't just about me

getting kids exercising. It was like

widows. It was single parents. It was

people with anxiety and depression

living on their own. And in all the all

the different places in the world, it

was really emotional. So, I did feel

lost, but I've reconnected with that

because now I'm still doing my YouTube

workouts. I'm still delivering free

content. And although there's this new

product and this app coming out, I'm so

passionate and committed to doing that

one workout a week that I will never

neglect that free content and that

audience that are there that still may

never buy my app or my my books.

You talked about buying a new house,

probably a bit of a dream come true in

many senses. Um, but again, you speak

about it being kind of anticlimactical,

like in like it not feeling like that

expectation that when you got that big

house, cuz I've seen the house, it's

it's a nice house. You should have felt

like confetti should have come down and

you should have felt amazing and but you

kind of described it like you didn't

feel that like that.

Yeah, I kind of thought, you know, I was

I was going to move anyway, but it was

like the the the lockdown accelerated

because we had paparazzi outside and I

wasn't used to that, you I wasn't used

to being having like photos taken of me

in India when we walked to the park and

we lived on a main road so it's quite

public and people would knock and and

sort of say hello and it was fine but

sometimes you just want a little bit of

privacy like when you switch off. So we

found this lovely house and it's you

know it's got a nice driveway. It's got

a beautiful back garden. And when I was

in there I just kind of thought why

aren't I double as happy? I've got more

space. I've got more garden but I

genuinely felt like I left that part of

me behind in that house that was so

purpose driven. It was all about pee

with Joe. It's where my kids were born.

So, I suppose it's a lesson, and I

really talked about that when Boris

announced the lockdown number two. And

I'm sitting there in my kitchen, I've

got all this space. I'm thinking it

doesn't matter if you've got a massive

house, we live in a one-bedroom flat, we

all feel the same right now. We all feel

very disconnected, very lonely. You

know, we miss our friends and family. We

need to socialize. We need events, we

need live music, we need dinners. So, so

it's just a really important message

that it doesn't matter what situation

you're in. We're all feeling the same.

And I really wanted to share that

message. And it it definitely helped

people open up the conversation because

we're all we're all struggling, you

know, mentally with this with what's

going on. And yeah, you know, you've

talked about it before, you know,

ordering the car and the house. And I

think we're driven by these things and

consumerism like we we we're always

wanting the next thing. But what I've

realized during this lockdown is I'm

happy exactly where I am with just what

I've got.

And that's a nice feeling. It's really

nice when you realize that another

Rolex, another car, even another

motorbike or another holiday, it doesn't

it doesn't give you what you really

think. And I think people listening that

are desperate for that life,

I think we all will come to the same

conclusion eventually. Whether you're 30

or 60, we will all level out and realize

that what's important is our friends and

our connection and and our love to the

people around us.

It's as you say, it took me a long time

to learn that lesson. And I the the

phrase that I was

You're only 27, aren't you?

Something like that.

Yeah. You ain't taking that long. You

know, you you've got I think you're very

When I listen to your podcast, I think

you've got a lot of wisdom. I think

you've spoken to a lot of people and

you've you've absorbed a lot and I think

you've really taken into your own um

your own life and philosophies. I think

I think it you know what I think it is I

I've also been really like

selfanalytical as in I will have a

thought and I'll have a feeling and I'll

try and grab onto it and hold it out in

front of me and go why are you feeling

like that? So the day as you kind of

alluded to there where I realized I was

going to be very wealthy and I start

looking at cars and houses. I get this

feeling of like the feeling you

described with your old house which is I

think if I get this I'll actually feel

poorer in some way. I'll lose something.

Like if I and then I thought to myself,

well if I get this one what's next? If

you get a Lamborghini Aventador the the

best [ __ ] sports car, what's next?

And then I was like I'm going to just

keep going. And then me realizing that

if I if I always start believe that my

happiness was somewhere else, in a

promotion, in a new car, in a big house,

it will never be here.

If I if I believe that I can't possibly

be happy because I don't have X, I will

never be happy because once I get X,

it's like a mirage or a rainbow. It just

moves out further in front of you.

Yeah. And you see that with a lot of

celebrities, a lot of musicians, like

talented people that get everything so

young, you know, they get to that point

where they start, you know, they go into

depression and anxiety and it can, you

know, manifest in drug addiction or, you

know, all kinds of things. But yeah,

it's if you're constantly looking for

the next thing or or or almost living in

the past of old memories and what you

used to have like you talk about down

contrasting and up contrasting like that

thing you said changed my life. Just

thinking, stop thinking about what you

did last year, how you went to America

and you went to Coachella. Think about

what you're doing today and not worrying

about that. And it really just brings

you to a it's like a medit it's like a

meditation it's like a thought a simple

thought where you can actually start to

bring yourself back to the moment and

like like I said I it could be a quote

it could be a podcast it could be an

interview little things just sometimes

it opens up a whole new thought process

isn't it and you start to think actually

do you know what that's amazing and also

I interviewed Fern Cotton and she said

one of this lovely quotes is nothing in

nature blooms all year round

you know where we're const like I need

number one podcast I need the number one

app I need to have um you know the best

book I need everything's got to be

number one. I need to be doing

everything every month for the year. But

I've realized that in nature like

nothing blooms all year round. And that

again made me realize it's okay to have

quiet months and not be in the media.

Chill out, relax, because something good

will come later on the year. You'll

bloom again and during summer. And I

think so little things like that really

open up my mind. And I'm evolving

quickly. I think since I become a parent

as well, um you start to be much more

empathetic and you start to understand

and you feel a lot more when you've got

kids. I don't know where it comes from,

but I'm I I think a lot more about other

people's feelings now more than I ever

used to.

I actually wrote down um when I was

watching your video that you did during

the lockdown where you start discussing

your own mental health and you saying,

"I've just watched Boris's announcement

and I'm feeling really shit." But in

that video, you also say, "I'm feeling

[ __ ] at the thought that there's loads

of families out here that are going to

lose their jobs and stuff." And I wrote

in my notes ear like incredibly

empathetic. Like you are incredibly

empathetic. And it kind of it made me

question like where where did he get

that from? Cuz that is a trait I noticed

in you last time as well. Most people in

the middle of a lockdown when they just

found out that we're going into our

second lockdown don't think oh my god

all these other people that are going to

lose their jobs and you I could see it

in your face and I know you're a genuine

guy cuz I've I've been with you. We gone

for dinner. You know outside of the

podcast I know who you are. I'm like he

genuinely genuinely cares.

I think it's grown in I think that

feeling has grown in me. But where I

used to be like, you know, when you're a

teenager, when you're a young adult,

it's all about you. It's like me, me, me

me. And then you, you know, you find a

partner and you start to realize it's

about your partner and it's about your

kids. But I think, yeah, like the more I

realized that we're all connect. It's

that thing of connection. You know, it

comes from sometimes a meditation or a

feeling of like we're all we're all in

the same experience. And you know, I've

I've been very lucky. Like the body

coach brand has grown. You know, my

YouTube audience has grown. Like the

signups of the planets, it's all gone

insane. And so I think about other

people and small businesses. I I

genuinely care about I think about

families that have run like restaurants

for 30 years or had you know properties

or had like amazing nightclubs or you

know amazing restaurants that are

suddenly going under like that it

affects me and that really when I stop

and think about all the pain and

suffering in the world it really brings

me down. It really kind of brings my

energy down and then I have to kind of

exercise or do something positive

because I start to feel a bit sad

because that is the world right now. You

know, there's billions of people that

are going through a really difficult

time. And so, my reaction to that is

trying to inspire them to move, to eat

well, to exercise, cuz I know that it

can counteract any kind of, you know,

financial pressures or stress that's

going on. If you exercise and you lift

your energy and you and you put good

food in your body, you know, even

temporarily, you're going to feel better

and it's going to change your mind. So,

that's my gift. You know, I try and

inspire people to exercise and feel good

for, you know, even if it's once a day

or once a week, it's enough to change

the way you feel about yourself and your

life. We went for um a little dinner a

couple of couple of months back. I don't

know uh I think just after the first

lockdown before the second one. Um, and

I was I came home really inspired on one

end, but just I couldn't shake this

thought. And I I hate to go back to it,

but I couldn't shake this idea that you

just had the biggest achievement of your

life with this P I mean outside of your

kids in my opinion um out with this P

with Joe format that just shook it just

spread across the world, right? And the

Joe I met at that dinner was somewhat

despondent as you say like confused and

um as you say like really unsure about

why you weren't feeling on top of the

world and also really unsure about what

you do next to to kind of like top that

I guess and it really stayed with me. It

stayed with me for like a couple of

weeks.

What did you think? Do you think I was

going to be more like energetic and and

and proud and like ambitious or what?

Every every person on planet Earth would

have thought, "Okay, so Joe set out to

achieve something and he smashed it out

the park. He is on all of the TV

stations. Congratulations on the MBE, by

the way." That's a whole another

conversation. We'll get to that.

That's mad, isn't it?

Mad. Um,

he smashed everything out the park. Um,

he's got to be just absolutely buzzing.

We were sat at the dinner and there's

people coming up to us asking you for

pictures halfway through the dinner as

well. But you weren't like that. And

even though I've written about this in

my book at great length about gold medal

syndrome and gold medal depression and

my own experiences, I still when I saw

that in you, I was like, "Fuck, people

need to hear about this because you were

I'll be honest, right,

that was the lowest I've ever seen you."

Really?

Yeah.

I suppose I I mean,

I was concerned.

No, I mean, look, I was I was really

looking forward to seeing you and I was

it was I was, you know, we hadn't been

out for a while, but I think coming off

the back of that pee with Joe, I was

emotionally drained. I think, you know,

physically I can do workouts all day.

I've done a dude, I done a 24-hour

workout. Like, I can move my body, but I

think the energy of performing, like

going on stage, stepping in front of the

camera when I wasn't in the mood for it,

when I had to like pick up every I was

literally carrying everyone's emotion

and energy and trying to and I do

believe in energy that we carry it and

we push it and we sometimes hold

negative energy. We sometimes hold

things locked up from years ago. And I

was just, I suppose, fatigued,

emotionally fatigued at that point. But

I've bounced back, you know, I'm back in

the zone. I'm filming workouts again.

And I'm um I'm refocused like I said on

the on the purpose and and the mission

which is like fitness for all and I've

got the app is one option. I've got the

books as one option but then also

Instagram YouTube you know there's so

much free content because I don't want

anyone to feel like the body coach is

this premium brand and I can only get to

him through that paid subscription. No,

I'm still going to give you one workout

a week on YouTube and I'm still going to

do my Instagram recipes. I'm still going

to share my daily stories and motivate

you. Um, and every now and again I might

mention the app, but it really is just

like for people that want to give it

that extra push, you know, and try

something a bit different.

So, as we park pee with Joe, you know,

last time you sat down here, you you put

put out into the world your your goal,

your ambition, and it came true. So, I

think, you know, let's tempate again.

Uh, what is your what is your goal and

ambition now going forward in terms of

your purpose?

Well, I think what I what happened I

achieved was a short-term thing. You

know, it changed behaviors, but they had

to they had to do it because they were

locked in. parents had to keep their

kids moving. Um, you know, schools

weren't providing PE. Everything was

closed. So, it was a temporary thing. It

was the start of a movement, but it's

the legacy is still continuing that

movement. You know, continuing to visit

schools, continuing to speak to heads,

and I don't see it as a government thing

cuz I've realized that you can actually

just speak to local schools and they

have the ability to change their

curriculum. Well, they have to follow

the curriculum, but they can change

their timetable. if they want to fit a

15-minute workout in once a day with

their children or do it um you know at

the end of the day they have the

ability. So again, it's about continuing

to grow that mission to create content

maybe as a separate platform which

schools can use. But it isn't over

because like anything, motivation drops.

It mot it drops for me, it drops for

you. Um different times of the year and

with young people, they're very engaged

at the early ages in primary school, but

when they start hitting their teens,

they're in the devices, they become more

resistant to exercise. So the challenge

becomes tougher as they get older.

So my mission now is to continue the

school's work. um when I can go on the

road, start visiting schools again,

creating content, you know, um hopefully

creating a TV show around that, you

know, like Jamie Oliver School Dinners

was only six episodes. In my head, it

felt like it was weeks and months and

months of content. So, you know, I want

to do the same thing. I want to create a

really amazing series, whether it's um

you know, Netflix or BBC or Channel 4

where I can continue that conversation

to get one teacher or one dinner lady or

one um head of a school to believe in

the power of exercise for their

children. So, I really feel like I've

just started. There's so much more to

go.

I think you have as well. And you know,

so like we one thing I've learned from

doing this podcast and speaking to

guests like you is that and even Eddie

Hearn who we had on last week is how

pivotal and how defining our early years

are. And you are like a really

fascinating guy in so many ways. We

talked about your empathy, your

achievements. Um, all of these things

suggest that you're because they're such

extraordinary things or out of the

ordinary things suggest that you

probably had quite an out of ordinary

childhood. Whenever whenever I meet

someone uh who is achieved out of

ordinary things, I always think okay

tell me about your childhood. So, how

was your childhood Joe?

Oh, so you think you don't think it was

a stable childhood? Do you think there

was something a bit more that motivated

me on to

Yeah, I I think I think um and it

doesn't necessarily mean it was like a

really bad childhood or a good

childhood. I always, you know, and I

actually did childhood psychology for

two years, which people don't know

about. This is why I'm so fascinated by

like all the Freudian um psychology and

and how one thing that happened. I've

got a friend who told me that one thing

that happened when he was a kid, he

still remembers to the day to this day.

and he holds that one comment that

someone in his family made to him as the

reason for his probably his single

biggest flaw in his personality and it

was just one comment on one day from a

parent.

Yeah, that's that's that's amazing. And

it's the power of um

yeah the power of a negative thought

like if someone says your teeth are a

bit crooked or you've got skinny legs

like someone could say you got lovely

teeth your whole life but you still

think your teeth are crooked and that's

happened to me in the past. I got

Invisalign because one a girlfriend said

to me once, you know, your teeth are a

bit wonky or really, you know, and and

someone said about, you know, this is a

true story. When I was 16, I had

glasses, but I was really embarrassed. I

was really shy about it. And the the

girl I was going out of said I said

something like, "I wonder if I'd look

good in glasses." And she she said, "Oh,

no, you'd look silly in glasses." So, I

never wore them for two or three years.

I hide them in my car, drive to her

house, take them out. And, you know,

it's that thing of we really take on

these these thoughts and it can really

affect our confidence. Um, that

definitely happened to me as a kid. But

I suppose my childhood was very chaotic.

You know, it was very unstable. My dad

was a drug addict from a very young age.

So, you know, that was it was a bit

like, you know, he was there one minute,

next minute he was in rehab, next minute

he was he was back on the gear, you

know, and he my mom would take him back

and it was all good and then they'd be

arguing and, you know, I lived in a

council flat with um really thin doors.

So

it was like um it was like plywood and

so there used to be holes in the wall.

It used to be holes in the door cuz I

remember um and I used to think why are

there holes in the door? Like and I I

look back now I know it's cuz mom and

dad used to fight and argue and you know

it' be like it was a symbol of

aggression and impatience and

intolerance and then it'd be gone. And

so I always I didn't have a positive

role model in terms of in terms of a

male and also when it comes to marriage

you know my mom and dad never got

married. If they were married they would

have been divorced hundred times. So I

had similar beliefs around marriage and

commitment to you. Like when are you

talking about it? Like I I suppose I had

the same feelings when I was 25. I

didn't believe that people stay

together, people are committed, that

marriage is going to work, that you

know, people get through tough time

because it was always like when it got

[ __ ] and tough, my dad would piss off

and we'd be back on our own again. So

you know, again, it was a tough

childhood, but also I had a happy

childhood. I didn't I don't feel like

resentment. I don't look back and be

like, I wish it was different. And I

wish my dad was there because we got a

great relationship today. But it

definitely affected me. You know, the

destruction of drugs in my household and

what came with it, all the chaos really

put me off ever wanting to smoke weed or

drink alcohol. You know, I was so scared

that I was going to enjoy it and I was

going to become an addict. I thought

it's a genetic thing. I thought I don't

want to be a drug addict, so I wouldn't

go near it. So, it definitely um it

definitely shaped me, you know, and when

I look at where my love and generosity

and empathy comes from, it's my mom.

like my mom is she's so kind and loving

and she's so always putting other people

first and I think that definitely shaped

me as a as an adult.

I didn't actually know this stuff about

you before. I didn't know that you'd

been through such a um tra traumatic

early childhood and as you were saying

that I was thinking [ __ ] hell.

remarkable that you are who you are and

that you have such feelings of empathy

and you're just such a kind human being

having gone through such a you know

violent and traumatic childhood and I

guess that is credit to your mom. Um

I suppose yeah I look back when I get

asked in interviews now like where where

did your generosity and your kindness

come from and your kind of desire to

want to help others. It's about help. I

you know I'm happiest when I'm helping

others. So, if I know I'm helping

someone or I'm helping millions, I'm

really happy. And so, when it when it

stops, I felt I'm not I'm not I'm not I

haven't got my purpose. I'm not

valuable, but I realized I am still

valuable. I'm still helping people. Um,

but yeah, my mom, you know, she left

school at 15, no qualifications. She met

my dad in a squat. She had my brother

when she was 17. Then she had Nikki. She

had me when she was 19. She's like a

kid. And when we used to go places, like

people say, "Is that your sister?" She

looked so young. You can't imagine.

Um, but somewhere along the line, she

taught me value. She taught me respect.

You know, if I had to be home at 10:00

on a Friday night, I was home at 10:00.

My mates were down the park till 1 2 3

cuz their parents let them run loose and

they were the ones graffiti and they

were the ones smoking weed. They were

the ones that got in, you know, in

trouble for, you know, crimes and

whatnot. So, my mom was really,

considering she wasn't parented. Her dad

left her when she was a kid. She was she

was a banner when she was a baby. So I

don't know where her love comes from,

but she's got this ability to just love

and and be so generous. And when she

went to university, she went back. She

said, "I want to study." She she went to

become a social worker. So the first

thing she done with her life was go and

help people that had, you know, young

offenders, people that had been through

abuse and and all this stuff. So it has

to come from her. It is emotional cuz my

mom, so I took my mom for dinner um the

night before it was going to be

announced and I said to her like, "We're

celebrating my birthday tonight, aren't

we? Cuz it's we we were having a late

birthday dinner." But it's something

else. MB.

Yeah, my MB. And I said, "Mom, um, I've

got an MB." And she We're in the middle

of Lucky Cat restaurant in London and

she burst into tears and I'm like in the

middle of the restaurant crying with her

and she's like when she was younger like

all her friends used to say, "You're a

[ __ ] [ __ ] parent." Imagine the pride

and it is it's she raised me like I have

to put it down to her.

You talked about your dad there and said

you said that you've um after all that

you'd been through and all you'd

observed and his addiction and his

battles with addiction, you've got a

good relationship with him now. Yeah, we

we do because, you know, addiction never

goes away. Like he's, you know, he does

his NA meetings. It's a part of his

life, but he he needs that. He needs to

have a fellowship and a network of

people to talk to. Like I don't

understand addiction. I've never been

addicted to anything. So for me, it's

like it he needs that that network of

people he can talk to and that's

obviously at the moment mostly through

Zoom, but usually it's like NA meets

you, you know, you go and have a talk

and you you feel better. and he's had,

you know, he's had therapy, but you

know, he's learned he's he's became he's

evolved like again like his dad left him

and I understand my mom and dad because

they went through so much trauma. My mom

was abandoned when she was 2 years old

was living in a she was in a um you know

a an orphanage and then my dad the same

thing his dad left him like he didn't

have you know he didn't ever say I think

I don't think my dad's dad told him he

loved him until he was like on his

deathbed when he had cancer. So, like I

understand where that addiction, why my

dad chose to like do that with his life

and I understand why my mom had OCD like

cuz I know what she went through as a

kid. I know what she went through as a

young teenager. And so, you start to

understand it and then you start to

really love your parents even more

because they protect you when you're a

kid. They're just protection. They can't

tell you what they went through. They

can't tell you this stuff. So, it really

like makes you realize how much trauma

they've had and where that's manifested.

And so, now like my relationship with my

dad is I understand him. I understand

that he he has seasonal depression

during the winter he's really low and

he'll have a holiday and he feels great

and he comes back and he's up and down

and that's him and I just have to kind

of love him and although I'm quite

consistent with my emotions and you want

everyone around you supposed to be happy

all the time didn't you think I'll buy

him a motorbike I I'll send him to the

molds I he can go and stay at my house

in America it's all temporary it's all

it doesn't do a lot you know so real

connection comes from like communicating

reaching out spending spending time with

him like he's happy when comes around

and we go for a walk or we go on our

skateboards together you know we got

electric skate So, it's about

reconnecting and being with him. And he

he needs that. My dad needs to see the

grandkids. He needs to see my brothers.

He needs to see me. And um yeah, I've

just learned that like I said that

really nice quote that the the you know,

the antidote to addiction is connection.

Not push them away. I hate you. I can't

stand it. Why are you relapsing again?

Why are you going into depression? You

know, the mind's really complex and you

have to like understand that people

aren't going to always be how you want

them to be. And you have to love them

unconditionally.

But if you asked me as a teenager, I

would be too angry. I would be like,

"Fuck that." No, like I can't deal with

it. I don't have a dad. My dad's a drug

add. I don't speak to him. I wouldn't

have had the emotional um ability to

deal with that. But now, as an adult,

I'm 35 and I can understand it a bit

more.

So crazy cuz um I love that quote, by

the way, and it I think Johanna Hari's a

real uh sort of I think I've got his

book on the shelf behind me about loss

connection.

That's where it's from. Yeah, that's I

think Russell Brand mentioned it to me

and I thought, "Wow, it's such a nice

thought."

And that's what the book is about. It's

about the the real reasons for

depression and anxiety fundamentally

stem back to a loss of connection of

some sort. And it was it was telling

when you were telling your story about

the generational sort of cycle that's

going on there. Your mother's, you know,

your dad and her upbringing and then

your father's dad and how like it was a

a lack of connection it seems that put

them into the situations they were in

and then that lack of connection made

them a certain way which then nearly

made you treat them with a lack of

connection as well. And I think the it

seems like much of the reason you're

able to break the cycle is because

you've realized that and you're like, as

you say, bringing bringing him close

despite, you know, I talk about this a

lot with my friends that have um an

aranged parent or have lost a parent and

I always try tell them I was doing it

this week. I was saying you've got to

forgive them for their own faults

because their faults have come from some

kind of trauma. And Tony Robbins says it

as well. He says, "You've got sometimes

we've got to forgive our parents for

being imperfect, not being the parents

we hope they were."

It's so true. It's so true. And like you

said, you know, memories memories can

form like your literally change your

characteristic, your personality, your

belief system. And I had really negative

beliefs around commitment around um you

know, people being faithful, people

sticking together, like when things got

tough, the people and even I'd be

affected if like celebrities that I

really loved like they'd break up. I'd

think see that even they can't stay

together. I just thought no one stays

together. No one's loyal. No one's No

one's ever like actually happily married

and stays together. But now as a married

man with two kids who I love, I'm really

really like I don't believe that. I

believe that you can be happy. I believe

that when I see an old couple on the

bench, you know, a 78-y old couple, I

love that. I think how amazing they've

spent their life together, I want to be

like that. I want to be a couple that

have stuck together. So it's, you know,

my child has affected my um my my love

and commitment as as a in a as a rel in

a relationship to to Rosie, but also as

a parent. Like I don't want to be

impatient and intolerant and snappy and

swear and shout, but that is my default

setting. That's what my head's trying to

do when Indie and Molly is screaming at

me. I want to slam the door and walk out

the house or I want to scream and shout

back at him cuz that's what I that's

what I had as a kid. So I have to

actively work against that. So although

I might be screaming in my head, I just

take a breath and I like almost just

sort of um yeah, just take a moment to

just sort of calm myself and then I can

react very differently. But that is

that's like a muscle. You have to train

it

cuz otherwise I just be screaming and

shouting all day long,

you know. So that's definitely it's hard

to do that when you've had it all your

life and you just got, you know,

screamed at, shouted at. It's just it's

like what you know, isn't it?

Default. It's

a default. Yeah. Like it truly is. It's

like a it's like a computer program and

you have to sort of try and undo that

code. Um and I read a book called um

calm calm parents happy kids. And it's

that thing you can either fight flight

or or pause and have a breath. You can

fight him and swear and shout and scream

and slam the door. You can run out of

the house and just deal with it and let

them deal with it and just not even deal

with any emotion and show no emotional

control. Or you can pause and have a

breath. And that's the the secret. It's

just having that right. Indie's 2 years

old. Her brain's not rational. She can't

understand why I really want to just

clean the side and put her down on the

floor right now. And so like you've got

to literally remind yourself every time.

And then you can start to really respond

differently.

We're all human. You have days where you

you get it.

Oh have days like I mean of course I

have days where I shout and I lose the

plot and I feel terrible but also I know

that she won't hold it against me like

the amount of times I was shouted at I I

love my mom to death so it's not like

she shouted at me I think she's terrible

and I don't love her for today like I

think it's okay to not be perfect and

not be a perfect parent and the other

day I had a row of Ros and I said I'm

I'm sorry I'm not perfect every day I'm

sorry that some days I'm so Ros is my

wife

I said I'm I'm I'm sorry that I'm not

perfect every I love you so much I'm so

affectionate and sensitive but if I'm

stressed and I've got something going.

Some sometimes I'm snappy, sometimes I'm

impatient. And I don't shout at the

kids. I might shout at you and I'm

sorry. And it's nice to say that out

loud and have a bit of a chat about it

because then you kind of move on and you

can just, you know, get on with it and

you and you learn from it.

You're getting busier, right, with the

app coming with the app stuff you're

doing. You're getting more requests than

ever before surely. Dude, I'm so I've

this has been the year like I've I mean

I've worked hard really have over the

last years and during the growing stage

like with social media, you know, it's

hard building an audience and then I

kind of had great success with the books

and now like you know this year since PE

with Joe um the 24-hour challenge I I

then done Wake Up with Joe which is

three workouts a week for lockdown too

cuz I thought they need to exercise,

people need to move. I've now had the

book PR. I've been doing radio

interviews. I've done the channel for so

the BBC children need 24-hour channels.

I've not stopped. Like I don't know how

I'm still going, but I now at this

moment need more energy than ever

because this is the busy time. This is

like leading up to Christmas. I'm also

doing a January boot camp. 5 days a week

I'm doing live workouts through the app,

you know, which is great because it

means people are going to go, I want to

give it a go. And it's a really amazing

way of marketing the product, but I'm

going to be exhausted.

If you think about your state and your

mood and how you feel within yourself in

the midst of all this like chaos, and

then we've got the pandemic rattling on

outside as well. What impact has it had

on you? Um, all of this busyness and now

you got two kids, you know, that are you

growing up and screaming at you and

don't want to be put down.

Have you felt a change?

I deal with it in different ways. Like

usually I have these like blocks where I

I'll work for like 2 3 months and then I

go, "Right, I'm going to go to Santa

Monica for a few weeks or let's go um

have a nice week in Dubai just to like

unwind and leave the phones and stuff."

And I've missed that. I've missed that

just that reset button because I've had

a I had like a couple of days away um

just when lockdown was over but it

wasn't enough cuz I actually spent my

time filming workouts because I said I

was going to do three workouts a week.

So although I was there relaxing I'm

still there and my what I do is so

physical like

you know being being physical and doing

exercise but also doing it with such an

amazing energy through the camera is so

draining but last week has been the most

emotionally draining. I was doing like

radio interviews with um like Jamie

Oliver and Ricky Jase and doing all

these things. I'm it's out of my comfort

zone completely and then I had phone

calls every every hour on the hour to

promote the new book. So that is a

different type of emotion. And when we

talk about the body coach so you know I

am the physical body like the energy and

Nikki is like the CTO. He's the brains.

He takes all the all the things I can't

the process stuff. Nikki's on a laptop

doing Zoom calls 9 hours a day like

managing this agency um and all the

other marketing stuff. together we have

this perfect kind of relationship where

we are working as equally as hard but

we're taking we're doing what we can do

so I don't feel like burning out but I

do think at the end of January I need to

block a month out so I've taken the

month off hoping to go you know

somewhere nice I love Costa Rica I'd

love to go with the kids you know just

just just unwind and basically when I

have that time down off the offline and

I'm not filming it really re-energized

me when I come back I'm like I'm like

reset and like body coach volume two

ready to go again sort of thing. You

talked a little bit there about marriage

earlier and you've also you've also

heard me on this podcast talking about

marriage, right? I want you to tell me

where I I'm getting it wrong

and also why you think I'm getting it

wrong.

So, I listened to two episodes of your

podcast and I I really hear I hear

myself in you when I was like 25 and I

was lo and I I feel like a part of you

is lost because you've got everything on

the surface you could possibly want.

you've you've smashed it in business

like you've got an amazing story and

you've got you know incredible success

which is wonderful but there's that

maybe you're missing that deeper

connection with one person you know

you've got amazing friends and you've

got a great network of people you work

with but I do feel like the the love

between one person you know it's

different it's a different kind of

relationship where you can always lean

on them so when I was 25 I was in a

relationship from 19 and I really I was

running away I couldn't commit to it I

didn't I used to say like exactly what

you were like this marriage it's like

this religious thing. It's a contract

and why should that person get half of

what I've got and what it's not going to

work. All my other friends are unhappy.

They're all divorced. You know, one in

three marriages. So, the more you tell

yourself that, the more it becomes true.

And the truth is how you feel now is how

you feel. And what you believe now is

what you believe. But when you meet

someone and you you realize and when you

do fall in love in whatever way sense

that could be, it was almost like with

Rosie, I was telling her every day I

loved her and it wasn't enough. It was I

needed to tell her more. I needed to

have something stronger between us. So,

I said, "Can we have a baby?" You know,

then she fell pregnant and we had Indie.

So for me, in my head, the ultimate bond

between two humans is another child. And

then when she was pregnant, I never

thought I would get excited about the

idea of like proposing and getting

married. But it was just it just

changed. My mind has changed as I

started to think, do you know, I love

this girl. I don't want to be waking up,

you know, every other week with a

different girl in a different hotel. I'm

like, that's not who I have been. It's

never who I'll be. So I I love being

with I love being close to one person. I

think I'm quite um emotional like that.

Um, and then I asked her to marry me. We

had this amazing wedding day. And I do

love being married. And I just think

when you have kids and you start seeing

your children grow and you you see how

wonderful that can be and how much joy

they bring you. I just think your

perspective will change over time and

you're just not there yet. It might you

might not get that till you're 35. You

could be 45. I was 30. I met Rosie at

30.

Okay.

And I've been the happiest since I

turned 30. Honestly, I've just been I'm

commit cuz being honest and being

committed is two of the most wonderful

things. being sneaky, being deceitful,

not being honest or being jealous and

insecure. They're feelings you do not

want to go through your life with. So,

when you find someone, you know, be

committed and be loyal, it's it's a

really it really takes your love to

another level. Do

you believe in that? You know, there's a

bunch of words people use in uh in this

in this realm of like love and marriage.

Uh they say, you know, you got to find

your soulmate.

I don't know if it's soulmate, but

everyone says, "Oh, hard, you know,

love's hard work. Marriage is hard

work." It isn't. It doesn't have to be

hard work. Not if you're with the right

person. Of course, you could get with

someone too young, marry the wrong

person, it all goes wrong, and you know,

that's a bad experience, but it doesn't

mean that the next relationship won't be

better, and you can't improve and learn

from it. But, you know, I do feel like

Rosie is is the kind of female version

of me. Like, when we met, you know, we

were just having so much fun, and she's

she's a wonderful parent. I watch her

and I see how patient she is. I think I

learn a lot from her because I I I've

got like a two or three minute kind of

tolerance of Marley screaming and

screaming in my face where I just have

to walk out the room. I just can't

handle it. She can be in there like 20

minutes all through the night and I'm

like, yeah, with with with Indie crying

or Marley teething and I think it's

amazing. She's just got this natural

innate like motherly patience and love

and tolerance. So I watch that and I

literally like go I need a bit more of

that and I sort of learn from it. But

yeah, I mean you know maybe maybe you

might have one relationship last 5 years

but I do believe that when you are in a

relationship like give it all. Don't

don't be thinking this is going to end

soon. This my last one didn't work out.

I know now it's going to break down and

we're going to end up breaking apart.

We're going to end up leaving each

other. She'll she'll have an affair. I

I'll I'll leave her. It won't work. That

just it's hard to be happy in that

situation. So, I think take every

relationship and just maximize it to to

the best of your ability like you would

with someone that you work with, a

business partner. If we went into

business together, you try you try and

make that partnership so like awesome

and so effective and efficient. And it's

the same with a relationship. you've got

to, you know, keep keep doing the things

that make you happy and and yeah, I

think with Rosie, like just having a

night out, going for dinner. Um, and

the, you know, the the secret is if you

stop kissing, you're [ __ ] If you

don't kiss your girlfriend and you stop

kissing, you just bypass each other and

you don't because everything starts from

a kiss. Do you know what I mean? It

could become a massage, could become,

you know, you might do a bit bit of

hanky panky, but if you stop kissing

that one thing, that intimacy, I feel

like I feel like everything breaks down.

Seriously, keep kissing.

It's one of the It's probably the only

thing that I've thought about going and

seeing a therapist about is like I have

a fairly negative pessimistic, let's

say, perception on romantic

relationships. Um, and I I think I've

identified that on one hand I'm my

expectations are probably like somewhat

unme unmetable and then on the other

hand I kind of see relationships as

being like a bird in a cage is the best

way.

Where's that come from? Like, so I know

your mom and dad and they're arguing

leaning at each other. My my parents

So that's the only that that's the only

marriage role modeling you're you're

basing your opinion on.

Yeah. So I I I have these but when I say

my parents screamed at each other, I'm

like my mom I've never seen since a

human able to perform the screaming

match she did. Nigerian woman and if you

don't know Nigerian women I do visualize

it like around a kitchen table.

The sound is un like you've never seen.

My dad actually said one day, he said,

"I your mom was screaming at me." This

is I think when we lived in Manchester,

probably before I was born. Your mom was

screaming at me and I went out like went

shopping, did all that. She had no idea.

I came back and she's still screaming.

She had no idea that I'd left the house.

And the the the the sound of it. I I

have this like mental image of my dad

sat passively just this like passive

white guy just sat there watching TV

just looking at the screen and my

African mother like kind of stood above

him just bellowing into his face at full

volume for like six hours. She didn't

lose energy. We talked about like

exhausting herself. She didn't lose her

energy and she would follow him around

the house. And so I'm think I looked at

my dad and thought he's trapped and this

is what my my

you know that that experience of seeing

your mom shout is thatffect has that

like affected your you know your are you

calm and you know when you argue are you

confrontational are you like cuz me and

Rosie are more like silent and we sulk

and we're so stubborn and we'll like go

two days about talking. We don't scream

and shout at each other. Are you are you

quite a shout?

I will never shout.

Oh so you're calm.

Never. I will not do it. I I will the

minute so I will try and explain myself

in a very calm way and then I'm like

okay I'm going

right and walk away.

I will like

do you ever say sorry? Do you ever admit

you're wrong or do you find it hard to

admit? ask me. So if you had asked me

that question two years ago, the answer

would have been like no, I never say

sorry. Like cuz I always kind of think

I'm right and it's like my way or the

highway. In the last year and when when

I was I got with this this certain

person um who I won't name and

she kind of taught me to like grow up a

little bit and and I started to

apologize for things and I started to

learn to apologize a little bit more.

But I'm I got to be honest. I'm not

going to lie. It's like the whole point

of this podcast is not to [ __ ] lie.

I'm still not that good at it.

It is hard. I'm the same. I find it hard

to say sorry in the moment, but I do if

I go away for a little half an hour, an

hour, have a walk or do a workout, I do

come back and I go, I was a bit

disrespectful there. I do apologize. But

yeah, it's an ego thing. It's like you

just got to let your guard down. One

thing I say about relationships, which I

really think is valuable. I can't

remember why I heard it or read it, but

it was about you can be in a

relationship with someone and this

expectation thing where you want them to

do everything perfect and be everything

in one and be like this amazing like

just like unicorn, right? But you might

find them really attractive and really

funny, but intellectually they just

don't challenge you. Just you can't have

conversations about work. They don't

understand you. But you can ring me or

Nikki and we you can get that that that

that part of a relationship with from

someone else. So there's no pressure on

that person you're with to like be

really intelligent and really understand

business and really understand social

media. Like that's something I've

learned that sometimes you have to love

the person for what they've got. you

know, love that they're really

affectionate, love that they're really

caring and considerate, but maybe other

elements of their personality, you have

to get from someone else because the

chance of you finding the unicorn is so

rare, isn't it?

You're going to find that. And and also

you like you might be amazing at certain

things, but you might not be good at one

thing.

I'm not a unicorn. This is the problem.

Who is No one's a No one's a unicorn

really. No one's completely perfect

because when you're in a relationship,

you want the other person to like, you

know, do everything like you and be

interested in the same things as you.

like Rosy's not into, you know,

motorbikes, but I go my brother and my

my little my little brother George and

my dad. So, I kind of get I scratch that

itch and I come back and then I spend

time with Rosie and the kids. So, it's

really about finding the needs at uni as

a human being

in in maybe in multiple people and then

you can really just focus on what you

love about your partner

does help.

You talked a little I talked a little

bit about there about going to therapy.

Have you ever gone to therapy? So, this

week I had my deadline for my book,

Happy Sexy Millionaire, which you can

now pre-order. And it's been an absolute

uh labor of love over the last couple of

years. And because I had the deadline on

Sunday, I was head down, smashing it

out. Um, typically like me, forgetting

to eat my meals and things like that.

And um, and this is where he saved me

once again. And I was in my office until

6:00 a.m. in the morning. Um, was

getting very, very tired. I've had two

Hules and um I had dinner as well and

it's for me that was the perfect that

was the reason why I've teamed up with

Hule because someone like me in that

situation would basically either

completely skip meals, I would not get

my sort of vitamins and minerals, I

wouldn't get protein, then I'd start

feeling like [ __ ] um because I didn't

have the time. And that's, as I've said

on this podcast before, the reason I've

um I'm so attached to Hu, the company,

the brand, the the founder, Julian,

because it really does save my ass. And

it has done for three years. And if you

are someone like me, you know, that does

have uh a very timelmited life, then I

really really recommend you give Hule a

shot. I really recommend you you give

berry flavor hu a shot because that is

my favorite flavor. And um yeah, so this

week I just wanted to shout it out

because you definitely saved me on

Sunday when I had my book deadline. And

also go and check out my book, Happy

Sexy Millionaire.

It's quite nice. It's like um

it's like Nesquick, isn't it?

Yeah, it's nice.

I do like that.

I talked a little bit about there about

going to therapy. Have you ever gone to

therapy?

I I call it the gym, but yeah, I think

my therapy from a kid and I look back

like for sure like I was stressed. I

didn't want to go home. I would be

always out the house, always playing

sport. I think it was my therapy and I

dealt with things through sport and

maybe that's why I became the body

coach. But I think I had um I had one

therapy session with a counselor once um

because I was basically in a

relationship I didn't want to be in and

I needed to talk to someone about it and

I had that session and I I just spoke

and and verbalized everything I was

going through and it was almost like

just by saying I was like I know I need

to walk away from this now and I I went

home and that was it. So it was really

it was an investment. And it was like an

hour of my time. Um I I I spoke to

someone cuz it wasn't my mom who was

invested, my dad who was invested. It

wasn't her parents and my friends who

really cared about her. It was like a

completely neutral person. And it really

helped because it changed the rest of my

life because I left a relationship I

wasn't happy in. I met Rosie. I got

married and I had kids, you know. And

this is the situation. I was 19 when I

met that girl. I was backpacking. I was

in a bar in Australia. You're very

different 10 years later. So maybe maybe

there can be such thing as a

relationship that's really great at a

certain time in your life, but then when

it's not right and it isn't working,

having a child and marrying that person

is definitely the wrong thing to do. Um,

and I didn't really realize that until I

met Rosie, just how how unhappy I

probably was in that last relationship.

So yeah, I've had it once and I I think

if I if I feel like I I need it, I'd be

open to it. I've got a lot of friends

that do it. It's like I see it as like

personal training for the mind, isn't

it? It's like why not why not take care

of your brain and your heart and your

mind? And that can be done through

therapy. So, I'm open to it. Um, I just

haven't felt I haven't had the calling.

I'm more interested in um I really like

the idea of doing an iOS ceremony.

Can we do it together?

Do you know why? I'm just I I listen to

your podcast. I listen to like certain

people that do it and I I'm drawn to it

because of that gateway and open up that

that even more love and more connection

when you realize we're all so

interconnected and obviously you can

meditate for 10 years or you can go and

do an arc serum and apparently you get

it's like a fast track to that feeling.

But yeah, you've talked about it. Have

you have I mean I was in Mexico in Tulum

and they they were doing like pot

ceremonies out there and I I just

couldn't quite convince myself to do it

but I would love to do Iaska one day

like go proper into the Amazon do it

properly with a shaman and like you know

feel feel that mother nature they talk

about that feeling of like the earth and

the connected to the human race. It must

be a wonderful feeling.

Have you ever done mushrooms?

I've never done mushrooms. No, I've

never I've never done drugs. So I

couldn't really um

I've never done anything like that. I've

never done mushrooms or I amasa but I

the more so I've just I've just invested

almost a million dollars into a

psychedelics company that's using it to

cure mental health disorders. We talked

about this didn't we?

Yeah. For the psilocybin so my dad was

involved in the trials at um the

Imperial College London. is involved. He

was basically um one of the uh not the

guinea pigs but yeah he it was a trial

between psilocybin um a placebo and an

anti-depressant drugs and obviously the

the studies come back that like this can

really help and it's a natural it's a

natural product from the from the earth

so yeah I can see that growing in the

next few years for sure when it when it

gets app has it been approved in the US

for like

yeah so it's in the

stuff um don't quote me on this but it's

in it's in the final stage of FDA

approval psilocybin so it's very very

close And there's a company called

Compass Pathways which has just gone

public and is as of right now worth

about 2 billion which is really develop

leading the pack in developing

psilocybin but it's crazy that I've not

tried it but I've looked at all the

research and development videos and

studies and data and it like blow blew

my mind.

Are you are you tempted to try it

yourself? Are you scared and nervous

about it?

Cuz I know the numbers. I've been

through I've looked at every drug and

I've I've seen where mushrooms and

psilocybin um rank in terms of the harm

they could possibly do to you and the

harm they can do to others when you're

on them. It's below alcohol. It's below

like every it's at the bottom. It's the

bottom thing on the list.

Yeah. It's been shown to really um

really help with addiction and

depression and and trauma from that. So

yeah, I suppose I wonder what the

experience like for us who maybe we're

not depressed and we're not anxious. I

wonder what that experience would be

like. But but yeah, you know, I listen

to a lot of podcasts. you know, Tim

Ferris is big on it. Rogan, you know,

and yeah, it's this kind of it feels

like this scary thing, but I suppose

because it's been going on for thousands

of years, you know, with kind of tribes

and it's not some dirty chemical drug

that's been manufactured in the lab. I

think it

it's non- addictive.

It opens up. So, what they say is it

opens up like neurological pathways that

maybe is all these memories locked. Did

you hear the Tim Ferris podcast? He said

like he done an Iawaska ceremony or

maybe it was psilocybin and he had this

vision of trauma that came through that

he completely blocked out.

Really?

Yeah. So he got he experienced um child

abuse like he literally didn't remember

it and he had this vision and all these

memories of being abused and it like

completely like opened up his his mind.

He's now obviously sharing about it but

that was like some so it's quite in a

way you don't know what you're

unlocking.

You can unlock really beautiful memories

and amazing things or but it can also

show you like quite traumatic upsetting

things but either way like you can learn

from it I Do you know what I did this

morning is the the the founder one of

the founders of the company a Thai um

which is leading the charge in terms of

psychedelics. They're really developing

about 10 different compounds in the

space. I I said to him I need to get you

on this podcast. Would you come on? And

so he's he's um as far as I know he's,

you know, he's incredibly successful

biotech guy. He's been doing it for

decades and um he's going to come on

onto the podcast and really talk through

all of these things. So like I gain and

psilocybin and all of that. So that'll

be

fascinating.

I'll be listening to that one. Yeah. But

listen, IA mushrooms, psilocybin, if you

want to do it, then I've been saying to

to my all these people in this room now,

I've been saying, "Let's go and do a

retreat with like a shaman." And um

they've told me what the best way to do

it is like the best retreat, the best

shaman, the best place. I'd love to do

something like that.

Yeah, I would be up for it. I mean, it's

a it's a it's a real person it's like

personal growth. Like you read a lot of

books. I'm not well read. I wish I had

more patience and more time and well I

wish I had more um commitment and

discipline to reading but I do I do I do

I'm drawn to it and it always it almost

they say like it will call you like my

dad's done an Iaska ceremony in Wales

and he said it just calls you like the

plant mother nature like you'll have a

calling one day and it'll be like I'm

ready at the moment we're just sort of

experimenting with the idea of it

and your dad did the psilocybin trial

with Imperial so what was his feedback

to you after he did it

yeah I mean it was um it sometimes takes

a little bit longer to integrate you

know you have the experience And you

know it was in a very controlled room

like it's in a proper like clinical

setting. So you're like in a hospital

room and they're holding your hand and

talking through it. And I'm not sure the

exact dosage but he got blasted with a

decent dose of psilocybin. Um and yeah

you know he saw some things and it

unlocked a little bit of you know trauma

and some visual stuff that he saw. But

again it's just about moving forward.

It's about it's about taking what you

see and integrating into your life and

saying I've had these experiences but

how can I be present today? How can I

enjoy my life today? And you know, with

depression, it's I don't think it's

going to be cured. I don't think you can

cure it like that because of the way the

brain works, but you're going to learn

to deal with it and and spot the signs

and kind of counteract it quicker. Um,

but yeah, he he had a positive

experience for sure and he's he's really

proud that he took part cuz he he

genuinely wants to help people. He said

if if people can come off chemical

anti-depressants and be given a really

beautiful natural um you know natural

product that can actually help them feel

happier and and especially for like

post-traumatic stress syn disorder like

people dealing with some really really

harsh stuff and they're getting blasted

with you know anti-depressants which are

very addictive and it's like morphine

isn't it? It's like it's not even it's

not even like good for you. It's they're

very addictive as well. I don't think

you're going to get the same thing.

Yeah, the side effects are really

really, you know, crazy. Um, sometimes

I think they're opioids. I think is it

opioids? Yeah, anti-depress I think

opioid I think anti-depressants are like

opioids or amphetamines. It's one of

them. It's like it's basically the drug

that you know you do not want to be

taking in a very small dose but over

time it can real generate real addiction

and you see it in America like the

prescription drug addiction over there

is is really destroying people's lives

over there.

My next question, you would have heard

this on the podcast if you listened to

the Eddie Hearn one. Uh, it's kind of a

new question I'm asking and it's a

question I really really love because I

think it gives a unique sense of

perspective. Um, you're an incredibly

busy guy. You're running around at the

moment doing this, that, and the other,

you know, all over the place. Um,

if you found out, god forbid, touch

glass, um, that this week was your last

week for whatever reason, god forbid, or

you walked out here and you got hit by a

a truck, what what would you regret

having not done or not doing more of? I

really wish I had like this long list of

bucket things that I wish I'd done. But

I'm I've always even when I was at

university, like I would go traveling in

my half term, my summer holidays. I

always I've always maximized life to the

the at that moment in time, you know.

I've always I've never kind of I've

never regretted or like missed out on

things. I've always traveled with my

friends. I've always, you know, done the

things I want. So, if I had a week left

on Earth, I wouldn't really regret

anything. I'd be proud. I'm proud of

what I've achieved in this short time.

I'm 35. I feel like I've I've been good.

I've done some good things. I'd probably

bring everyone together and like throw

my wedding party again cuz my wedding

day was wicked. Like I'd all you know

your best friends and all your mate your

mates and we had a fun fair and we had

all the food and we were dancing and I

think I'd try and recreate that if I

knew I had seven days. I'd get everyone

together and say look it's my last week.

Come down. Let's have another blowout

and have a party. Um but I wouldn't

regret Yeah. I just really wouldn't. I I

think it's a shame to live your life

like that. You know, regretting and

wishing your childhood was different.

ing you know you you I've and I've got

friends that kind of live in that

mindset of always looking back and

almost thinking about a moment in time

if they just done it differently they

were like life would have been different

today but you can't think like that you

can't get stuck between the future and

the past can you cuz that's really

really depressing whereas if you

actually just think look I've done what

I've done even the bad things and the

times I wasn't nice or disrespectful

like I learned from it and today I'm a

better person for it. A lot of people

when when you ask them that question,

they reflect on like a lack of balance

in their life. They'll say, "Oh god, I

work too much. I didn't see the kids

enough." And and those kinds of things.

That's typically what you hear. It's

like, "Oh god, do you know I really wish

I'd spent more time with this person or

or that person." I think if I was to

answer that question, I'd probably feel

I'd probably say that. I'd say, "Why

didn't I spend enough time with my

family?" I think the reason is because a

lot most traditional businesses like if

you're a graph like Eddie Hearn always

on the road always around the world you

know footballers again away every

weekend they're training they're you

know traveling the world musicians away

from their family and it's hard for like

you know stabil stability and so they do

sacrifice a lot for that fame and

success whereas my fame and success has

come through an iPhone in my kitchen so

I've really even before lockdown I

filmed all my workouts at home so I have

a great balance where I can do what I'm

doing and be successful but also leave

my phone for 2 weeks and go away and not

not worry about it. Or I can, you know,

put my phone down. Like I I I spend

quality time my kids every day. I'm I'm

adamant about that. So I do, you know,

breakfast. I make them breakfast every

day. I have 2 and 1 half hours. So

between like 5 and 7:30 where I don't

have my phone and I do dinner time, bath

time, but story time. Like I love it.

It's like my routine. And I and I know

get once they're down, I can go back to

work or, you know, watch a film. But

it's having little moments like that.

Just having that structure so that you

don't feel like you've missed out and

you ask them how their day has been. And

Indy's favorite thing is like she loves

cooking and she loves doing her

handwriting. So even just running in

there and doing 10 minutes of

handwriting with her. I mean she's 2

years old and she's doing the alphabet.

She's she's got like these dots. You

follow the dots and just seeing her with

a shaky hand to like now a month later

she's banging out the A to Z and it's

like immaculate. That's that's fun. It's

amazing. So I'm not missing out on these

moments. Although I'm really busy, I'm

also optimizing my time with them as

well if you know what I When you said

that India's really into cooking, I