He's blaming everybody and it's the same

thing. Oh, it's vandals, it's this, it's

that. It's him. He's just a disaster.

Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Kara Swisher live from the

South of France.

>> Bonsoir, Kara.

>> Bonsoir. Bonsoir. How are you?

>> How are you?

>> That's her entire friendship.

>> That's it. We're done.

>> That's it. We've got a lot to get to

today. There's so much going on

including green watergate. Get it? Green

watergate. I told you this thing would

blow up. President Trump says it will be

He said it will be in fixing the

seriously vandalized reflecting pool

vandalized by him. Trump is claiming

without evidence, he's lying, that

vandals cut the a 250-ft gash in the

pool's new lining and poured corrosive

and destructive chemicals into the

water. This is nonsense. There's cameras

everywhere in Washington, just so you

know. He said multiple people have been

arrested tied to the alleged

destruction. This is just nonsense. One

of them was a former Olympian and was

accused by the park police of destroying

government property. He says he reached

down to touch a strip of peeling paint.

I was down there, Scott. It was peeling.

It

Nobody was touching it. Everyone was

sort of shocked and amazed by how

grotesque it was cuz, you know, you go

down there I've gone down there quite a

bit and I've never really noticed the

the sliminess of it and it really is

it's green. All this paint's peeling

off. So, he's lying and Trump, of

course, should be accused of

vandalizing a lot of Washington whether

it was the East Wing or the the grass in

front of the White House for his his uh

his party. You know, it's just

ridiculous, but it's taking on a life of

its own. It really is in terms of a of a

metaphorical thing or maybe you don't

think that.

>> No, I mean, the president is caught

between two straights of water. It's

just

and [laughter]

>> We'll get to that in a minute.

>> I personally I think this is kind of a

non-story. America's turning 250 and

we've managed to turn a reflecting pool

into a culture war. I just for God's

sake, just fix it and let's move on. I

don't I don't I kind of

I you know, they

they're lying and saying that it's

sabotage and vandalism. It isn't. It's

incompetence. It's a government project

turning into another government project.

And the Democrats love to talk about

I think we have bigger fish to fry. I

think I I

>> I would agree, but I don't think it's a

bad I think people get it in a second

cuz it's again, as I told you, it's a

simple and it's also the the guy who did

it is another piece of grift.

>> 100% zero bid contract, yeah.

>> And it looks incompetent. It looks

incompetent. And you know, one of the

jokes online was that, you know,

Washington is now a scar after after he

took over uh

took over on the Lion King. Um

but

but there is more to that because then

you link it, I think, with Iran, too,

which continues to be like a problem.

Like here's, you know, they keep going

back and forth. And that is the real

problem. It is, but it's symbolic of

just complete idiocy. Like like really

stupid. We'll get to some other stupid

things coming up. But um it it Talk a

little bit about the I know I noticed

you were talking about a lot online um

the MOU, which seems the Iranians seem

to have us by the short hairs. That's

what it feels like to me.

I don't know about you, but they're

they're not doing anything. They're just

dragging us on, I guess, and being rude

to J.D. Vance, which I completely

think they should be.

>> So, Trump has delivered

on his

promise of unconditional surrender. The

problem is we're the ones

unconditionally surrendering.

>> Right.

>> It is insane. Anyone who can do math,

anyone who understands a memo of

understanding, anyone who can look at

their activities, in in my mind, it is

just so incredibly clear and tragic what

is going on.

The IRGC recognizes

he's left. The midterms are coming up.

It is a very unpopular war. He got no

support from the public, from Congress,

from other nations. He underestimated

the resilience of of of the missile

systems.

He has handed them something more

powerful than a nuclear weapon, and that

is an ability to choke the carotid

artery of the global economy in the

Strait of Hormuz.

They know we are out.

>> Right.

>> And they all they have to do is delay

obfuscation. It's just delay. Every day

that goes back, it's less likely we're

going to go back in with military

action.

>> No, he can't. He really can't.

>> They have to operate between

uh

humor them, agree to meet in

Switzerland, don't get a deal done. They

have the perfect false flag, oh, uh

Israel's bombed Lebanon, you're not

lead you're not living up to your part

of the agreement, we're out.

>> They have no intention of giving

anything back, and the only thing that's

going to come out of this, besides

Trump's Trump Trump's incompetence and

J.D. Vance

uh you know, having about as long a

presidential run as

Senator Gillibrand, is that we are going

to look back on this and recognize that

one of the greatest acts of diplomacy

was the JCPOA.

>> Right, which was and Obama's saying so.

He's doing a lot of press right now

around it, by the way, the comparative.

>> We had Russia and China sign or they

were co-signatories to the agreement. We

can't get Israel to sign this agreement,

much less European nations. It we had

limits at 3.7 enrichment, they're

already at 60. There's no There's no

constraints

>> There's no constraints around nuclear

enrichment in the agreement. We he keeps

saying all these [ __ ] threats, oh,

we'll we'll open the Strait of Hormuz.

>> We'll get you. We'll get you. I know.

>> The Strait of Hormuz would take to keep

it open would take two carrier strike

forces, paratroopers and Marines on the

ground on Iranian soil. That is not

going to happen. The The net net here is

the following.

America comes out of this much weaker,

Iran much stronger, and we're going to

look back and and realize that the JCPOA

was one of the more impressive acts of

diplomacy of the last 50 years.

>> Yep, except they still continue to deny

it. It's really like it's the same thing

with the reflecting pool. The reason why

I'm

harping on it, it's the same thing. It's

the same kind of like no, this is what's

happening. You know, you've seen all

these communications from the White

House, and we look it looks so

ridiculous when it's the reflecting

pool, but it's the same exact

communications. Um you know, they're

blaming the New York Times, they're

blaming you know, for the coverage.

They're He's blaming Obama, he's blaming

everybody, and it's the same thing. Oh,

it's vandals, it's this, it's that. It's

him. He's just a disaster. And again, I

point to Finally, someone is starting to

write about it, his mental state, which

seems demented, and we'll get into that

a little bit more. Um but the way he's

sort of lashing out in this crazy way

when it's all his fault, seems And of

course, blaming the poor J.D. Vance. I

mean, I never feel that sorry for that

guy, but I got to say he's been dragged.

He's been

He's been penced. I don't know what else

to say. He's sort of stuck holding the

bag here and try having to defend it,

and it's worse than when Karl Rove has

even lightly said, "I wouldn't change a

thing." on The View, right? Sort of the

same exact thing. So, I mean, it's

disastrous for the Republicans in so

many ways because he doesn't have an

out. So, my worry because of I think

he's he lashes out, like resting back

Jeanine Pirro arresting people for this

thing? This is like Let me tell you,

Jeanine, I was down there. I didn't

touch this strip of paint, but it was

stripping off by all by itself. Um is

going to be a disaster. These people are

soiling themselves in the most

ridiculous of ways. And in And in Iran,

it's staying With the reflecting pool,

it's just stupid, although costly to the

fed to to us as taxpayers. The same

thing with the rest of the mess he's

making. But um in this case, it's

disastrous. I mean, really truly disas-

I don't know what how anyone's going to

get us out of this.

Cuz we got 2 more years of this lunatic.

As the entire

I don't even know. What would happen

What could happen?

He gets sidelined? What? I don't know.

Like he's not going anywhere, even if he

loses power.

>> If Democrats take Congress, have the

power of of subpoena, and uh hopefully

if they were to get back Senate, at a

minimum,

there'd be enough power to get in the

way of a lot of this stuff.

>> Except that

Iran will then develop a nuclear weapon.

I feel like he might now. You know what

I mean? Like that's what the worry I

That's the only thing

we all agree on. Iran cannot have a

nuclear weapon, but wow, we've given

them a chance here. He's This is And

then the economy itself. Anyway, let's

go on a quick break. When we come back,

resignations, feuds, and more, and we'll

get into all the European political

drama.

>> Support for this show [music] comes from

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>> Scott, we're back with big news here in

Europe. There's a lot going on. Keir

Starmer just announced he's stepping

down as Britain's Prime Minister, giving

in to mounting pressure from his own

party. Starmer said he'll stay in office

until the new party leader is selected,

and likely to be this guy named Andy

Burnham, former mayor of Greater

Manchester, very popular guy. Trump got

ahead of the announcement over the

weekend, noting Starmer would step down

and saying he had failed badly on

immigration, energy policy. Also, a lot

of attacks from Elon Musk, by the way.

Starmer's resignation comes almost 10

years to the day since the Brexit vote.

The UK has had six prime ministers in

that time.

>> I love that.

>> It's crazy.

Um talk a little bit about you you live

there. What has happened here?

Obviously, he was going to lose an

election, and he had won in a landslide

in a very short time ago.

>> I think a A of it comes down to

economics, and that is

I mean, it's very strange.

Uh Ibiza, Mykonos, and St. Barts, and

Hawaii are parts of those nations, but

they're not. They're islands that have

an entirely different culture. I feel

that way about London. I think islands I

think London's essentially an island in

the UK, cuz if you look at the UK,

seven out of 10 IPOs in the last 10

years are below their offering price.

GDP was supposed to take a 4 to 6% hit

from Brexit, this second greatest own

goal in geopolitical history behind our

entry into Iraq.

You have now the UK as a whole has a

lower average household income than

Mississippi.

And then there's London, which is

essentially where the richest people in

the world park capital and have a

European lifestyle with actually without

actually engaging in the UK economy. I

mean, it's just it's a very strange

place. Since I have moved there after we

have a new UK a new Prime Minister

in several weeks. I've been there 4

years. This will be my fifth Prime

Minister.

>> Fifth, right? You had a bunch of

conservatives. There was a bunch of

There was a conservative guy. There was

Boris.

>> It's It's not politics. It's speed

dating. It's beginning to feel like a

LinkedIn jobs page. It's just so

you know, it it but without growth until

they figure out a way

I thought they should do Brexit. They

should reintegrate into

the European economy, because without

growth

all of this gets harder and harder. And

the weird the quagmire here or the not

the quagmire, the enigma is that

the UK has all the underpinnings of a

great democracy and economic growth

engine. It has incredibly universities,

rule of law,

culture compounds. Everybody in the

world

it wants to or would wouldn't mind the

idea of living in the UK for a few

years.

It's a wonderful place. And yet they let

OpenAI, Anthropic, and SpaceX going to

raise 150 billion in fresh capital. The

UK raised a total of 2 billion last year

in its entire IPO market. They just

can't get out of their own way. And

Brexit, and just to go to politics,

since World War II, no individual's done

more harm to Britain, in my view,

than Nigel Farage, who might be a prime

minister at some point. So, I have

stayed woefully ignorant to UK politics,

but it is difficult for me to understand

how the foundation

of success, how they continue to snatch

defeat from the jaws of victory here.

And I got to think it's something it's a

got to be a big bold move. Even

even the non-dom thing, we kicked out

basically they chased a lot of

billionaires out of the UK. And

I understand the sentiment. It's let's

tickle the middle class sensors of

people who are angry, but at the same

time the Treasury's gone down because a

lot of wealthy people are leaving.

And that reduces your tax base to, you

know, provide for the NHS and these

social services.

But this is, I mean, UK politics, and

then what do you have? You have the rise

of populism. They have had real

problems,

you know, it

it it's a certain extent it's a metaphor

for the West. You have, or when the West

goes wrong, stagnant wages, housing

shortages, immigration anxiety,

and institutional distrust.

>> You also have a lot of uh meddling by

Elon Musk in terms of of backing a bunch

of very violent people against

immigrants.

>> export is political divisiveness.

>> Right, yeah.

>> It's not helpful.

>> himself that's meddling quite a bit.

>> Yeah, but then J.D. Vance comes over and

lectures them about free speech. It's

like, we shouldn't I you know, in my

view, Americans should be here saying,

"You're our greatest ally. How can we

help? What can we do together? How do we

open more free trade agreements?"

Instead, instead Musk shows up and says,

"Rise up, white people." Or or I mean,

essentially and J.D. Vance comes over

and waves his finger at them around free

speech. And now they've got to figure

out a way to to to basically untangle

the technology

their new Britain's nuclear arsenal runs

on American technology. And all of a

sudden Europe is waking up and going,

"What the [ __ ] We have become way

>> the conservatives aren't popular either.

And Farage kind of is. It's like

nobody's popular. It's a real

>> It's a very angry nation. But when you

don't have growth, people's prosperity

goes down and they just get angrier and

angrier. So I I I again, not to talk too

much about

money, but they have got to figure out a

way

to get growth going again.

>> How would you do that?

>> your growth grows, you have more money,

you have more flexibility, you have more

power abroad, you have more You can't

have a powerful nation that's shrinking

its GDP. And again, I was in Cannes when

Brexit happened and the pound crashed.

It's cost them 8% of their GDP, which is

like taking hundreds of billions of

pounds into the street and just lighting

it on fire.

>> Yeah, they may return to the I mean,

it's interesting cuz Europe is getting

more and more unified. Speaking of

which, Trump's latest feud is one of his

pals, basically his European Marjorie

Taylor Greene, Italian Prime Minister

Giorgia Meloni. The spat started after

Trump This is so strange. Again,

I'm sorry, that this guy's lost his

mind. After Trump claimed Meloni Meloni

uh begged him for a Meloni I'm sorry,

Meloni begged him for a photo of last

week's G7 Summit in France. Meloni

responded with a video on Instagram,

which was quite remarkable, calling

Trump's claims totally fabricated and

saying Italy and I never beg. She also

accused Trump of being more

accommodating to the enemies of the West

than his own allies. Trump then doubled

down, saying Meloni is doing poorly and

he would rather level popularity, which

she fired back, "My popularity is none

of your concern. I suggest you focus on

yours." pointing to his bad his lower

increasingly lowering popularity.

Um boy, this woman even though let me

just let's be clear, she's anti-gay

marriage, she's anti-trans, she's

anti-immigrant, she's not She's Marjorie

Taylor Greene essentially. This is the

European version of her. And at the same

time, I I was like, "Go, Georgia." Like

it was kind of interesting that he

continues again

the sign of someone who is having some

cognitive problems. It seemed like to

me. Not This is usually he's such an

>> like this.

>> He's always been an [ __ ] but not

this much of an [ __ ] Like and and

she just took it to him which I found

really I mean obviously it helps her in

Italy because he's not popular there and

he's not popular anywhere in Europe now.

And they were tight as ticks if you

recall, you know.

>> But this is again

greatness isn't the agency of others.

And European countries have been our

strongest allies. We share same values,

same democracies. We've worked together.

We've had incredible

the post World War II world was largely

shaped by America and European values.

And Trump decides again

he's figured out a way to manage to feud

with and alienate feud with and alienate

allies while simultaneously praising

adversaries.

And we've spent 80 years developing

these alliances and Trump treats them

like some sort of fantasy football

league.

And Melania to her credit she remains

her popularity is actually greater than

most Western leaders.

And picking and then he decides to pick

a fight with one of the few European

leaders who actually likes him.

And

is this and none of this

>> She went at him on the Pope too. She

didn't much like his comments on the

Pope either.

>> Yeah, well, I mean, come on.

Criticizing the Pope is like if someone

>> Not in Italy.

>> in Italy you just don't do You don't do

that. None of this makes any sense,

Cara. None of it makes any sense.

>> it. I believe her. Believe the woman.

I [laughter] totally believe her.

>> her.

>> He's such a creep. But this is

interesting cuz she's a really cuz she's

a really If you actually look at a lot

of her policies, they're pretty heinous

in terms of how she behaves, but she's

sort of shifted I mean she used Trump to

sort of get there and now she's cutting

him loose like like more than others

actually. The others haven't been quite

as critical of him.

Uh Starmer certainly hasn't, right? Or

any of them have. I don't know if the

Germans have it. This she's really taken

it to the wall.

>> Yeah, I think I think I think most of

them have decided wait him out. It's a

smart move for Melania cuz she comes

across as a leader and not afraid and

you know,

>> And he's not popular. It's not good for

her. We look terrible once again. By the

way, it's really interesting to be in

Europe because a lot of people are

saying, "You don't like Trump, do you?"

to me. I'm like, "No."

>> Really?

>> No. Yeah, a lot of the Europeans they

sort of test it. When we were in Paris

several different times,

um like, "Hmm, you're not a fan of

Trump." I'm like, "Hardly." Like he

Hello lesbian family. Like, "No." Um and

so they asked several Europeans There

was a tour guide Eiffel Tower or

whatever were sort of like poking to see

um if we liked him, which obviously we

look like an ad for not liking Trump in

anyway. Um

let's go on a quick break. When we come

back, new details about how Mark

Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos tried to cozy

up to Trump. This is an interesting

story.

>> Support for Pivot [music] comes from the

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Scott, we're back. President Trump

reportedly took frequent jabs at Mark

Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos as he tried to

build ties with his administration.

That's according to a new book by New

York Times reporters Maggie Haberman and

Jonathan Swan, who I'm going to have on

the on podcast soon. The president told

guests stories about Zuckerberg and

Bezos kissing his ass, which they were

saying, "You would not believe the texts

I got from these tech guys. I got to

show you." Among them, Zuckerberg sent

Trump a photo of a letter written by one

of his young children, which said they

were looking forward to a golden age of

America, Trump a rally slogan. Bezos,

meanwhile, reportedly told Trump that

the Washington Post was one of his worst

investments and that people there are

really terrible. Oh my god. I mean,

honestly, and then of course they he was

showing it to Elon, too. They all made

fun of them and you know,

anyway, it was kind of I mean, by the

way, on the other side, they insult him

behind his back, too. But wait wait what

what is the

what has happened here from your

perspective when you're reading sort of

this stuff? I'm not surprised by one bit

of it whatsoever. Um but I don't know if

they'll get their reputations back. We

always thought Trump was a jerk, but

this is really kind of

>> Yeah, but it represents a flip that is

that is sort of represents something in

my view kind of dark. And that is

politicians used to kiss the ass of

billionaires because billionaires had

money and politicians wanted to get

elected. And it became kind of a

pay-for-play thing because of Citizens

United. But when you think about this,

Bezos and Zuckerberg are worth hundreds

of billions of dollars.

And yet they both still feel compelled

to kiss the ass of an 80-year-old real

estate developer.

>> Right. Yeah.

>> Capital always chases power, but Silicon

Valley spent 20 years telling us

government didn't matter and then

everyone started flying to Washington.

And

what this signals around the dark part

is the following.

If you're worth a quarter of a trillion

dollars and still kissing the ass

of the president, you're not This has

moved from buying influence

to renting protection.

This is a transition for pay-for-play

democracy to something even worse, and

that is a mob protection racket.

>> Yeah.

>> Where if I want if I want to hold on to

my wealth,

I got to start paying for protection

because anybody that doesn't sign up

gets in his crosshairs and potentially

you know, all of these guys and Jamie

Diamond is the only one I can tell about

these like this power crew that hasn't

kissed his ass and is actually willing

to occasionally say the obvious.

And now the government is suing JP

Morgan.

So it doesn't matter how powerful you

are, you got to pay the mob. And this is

What do you have? You want a democracy

where money can't buy influence or can't

buy too much.

Then you move to a democracy a

quote-unquote democracy or a cleptocracy

where money buys everything. And now

we're in in my opinion a protection

racket where Bezos and Zuckerberg got to

like

got to kiss the ring here. It's feeling

very Russian.

>> to? Do they got to? I feel like they're

more powerful. I don't even understand

it. Like

I

I don't I don't know. I mean, they could

wait him out. Like They got so much

money. They could do so much damage to

him.

>> I do think if the Democrats take

Congress and we get about 18 or 24

months out, I think you're going to all

of a sudden going to see

as I say these guys are going to grow

testicles again. I think you're going to

see a switch cuz I know they all tell

you they can't stand them.

But the smart play, I hate to say it,

the smart play is just to kiss his ass.

>> I guess, but it's so gro You don't have

to do it in a gro tape with your kids.

Oh my god. Like my child wrote this to

Do you know how what you much of a loser

you look like that you're pimping out

your kids? And then Bezos, just sell the

[ __ ] Washington Post if it's one of

your worst investments and people are

terrible.

>> that. We talked We've talked and I still

don't understand why he still owns that.

>> You know, it's not just me who was

interested. There was a dozen people.

Wouldn't engage with any of them. I've

talked to every one of them. Wouldn't

engage. Not once.

What What does he do What does he like?

Like

I don't know what's happening. If he

doesn't like it, if this is his worst

investments and people are terrible and

by the way, Jeff, they hate you.

Um why not just get rid of it? It's so

>> Yeah, I don't get that one. I don't

understand why.

>> give him power. By the way, it's do It

did an amazing story on Tulsi Gabbard

this week. Like it's done several

amazing stories.

Um around the corruption and everything

else. I mean, the news parts, the the

editorial section is such weak sauce

now. It's really hard to read.

Um but I agree. I don't understand it. I

think I don't know

when when they're sucking up to the

normal president, do are we going to

forgive them or do we care? Now, they've

sort of soiled themselves pretty

significantly.

>> It feels very Russian in the sense that

doesn't matter how rich you are.

>> Yeah.

>> You got to send Putin You got to send

Putin his vig and no matter where you

are, you might if you really piss him

off, he's going to put

a neurotoxin on a doorknob.

>> Yeah, but he's This guy isn't going to

do that. That's the thing. It's not like

In there, I kind of see it cuz he like

That's kind of going out a window kind

of thing. This is just something else.

>> Yeah, but I think I think these guys in

a capitalist society begin to equate

success and ego and influence just with

a number and that is your net worth.

And I think they're very smart and they

connect all the dots and see the matrix

around how to increase their net worth.

And they've con- they've connected the

dots here and say just kiss his ass.

It's just It's It's a really high ROI

activity.

>> Ugh, they're so gross. They're just

gross. They're pimping out kids. It's

just gross. Sorry, it's just gross. It's

gross. Um in other Amazon news, speak

This is interesting. Amazon's movie

studio is dumping an upcoming film about

Sam Altman saying the project would be

served than other studio. The decision

comes as Amazon plans to invest $50

billion in open AI this year. The move

reportedly stunned the filmmakers, very

good filmmakers by the way. Andrew

Garfield was in it.

I am in the script. I don't come off

very well. I look like I'm too nice to

Sam, but I don't care.

Since Amazon had already spent about $40

million on the movie, tested it for

markets, it was working towards a

release date. Um, they I don't know and

they can't this is not getting picked

up. Netflix passed apparently, a couple

of different places passed. Um, and it's

it you know, it's

a high-level film. I I read the script.

Um,

and I didn't like it. I thought it was

fictional in a lot of ways. They sort of

painted Jeffrey and his a party guy,

which I'm not in my experience and they

made that one guy who

rebelled against Sam into a hero and I

don't think he was either. I thought it

was kind of broad and didn't I thought

it was not a good script.

But there's of course the other ones

coming out about Mark Zuckerberg, the

the sequel of the social reckoning,

which we previously talked about. Um,

about Frances Haugen and and that that

whole situation. That's coming out.

That's

that is coming out. Um,

with the guy from The Bear, but uh,

you feel I don't know. I don't know.

Like I'm not surprised they got rid of

it if they just invested in open AI, but

it seems kind of dumb. Spending all that

money. Yeah, it's not much. 40 million,

who cares?

>> I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but

we were well into the development and

even production writers room of

>> Oh, yours.

>> our series on Netflix about big tech and

I got the plug pulled.

>> Oh.

>> This has gotten a plug pulled.

>> Yeah.

>> I think they've just decided that

>> They don't want to be villains.

>> Yeah, and they don't it's not worth the

risk. You piss off either powerful

people or you piss off the president.

All these M&A, all these regulatory

concerns and quite frankly, the American

public seems to have soured on AI.

Or it could just be the following. The

story of Sam Altman is not interesting.

And it it seemed more interesting 12

months ago than it is now. So,

I think they'd, you know, think, "Well,

let's just do season four of Euphoria."

I I don't I think they've done the math

here and decided that stories about big

tech

>> hockey people seems popular.

>> Yeah, let's do let's do the women's

hockey team this year.

>> Toy Story 5 is doing incredibly well.

Toy Story 5 is like killing it at the

box office.

>> opening. By the way, to your credit, I

meant to tell you you've been talking

about theaters and I've been shitposting

them. The best-performing media stock

the last 12 months hasn't been meta or

it hasn't been it's been theaters.

Theaters have made it

>> Alex went to the theater. He did. He

loved it. He's going again to watch the

>> RL is a is a is a trend again.

But anyways, back to quote unquote

artificial, the name of this that

they've killed, I think they just do the

math and go,

>> We're not going to make

>> "Okay, the story is not interesting.

It's going to piss off potentially a lot

of powerful people.

Is this worth it? And

I look, I saw this happen up close and

personal and I still

>> more about this plug pulling for you.

Tell explain to the people what your

show was so people understand.

>> So, I heard I connected with

Res Media who did The Morning Show and

then I had an we had an amazing

showrunner Scott Burns from The Bourne

Identity, incredibly talented guy. We

signed up Rosamund Pike to play the lead

character based on, you know, loosely

based or inspired by Sheryl Sandberg.

It got we we we did our pitch and it got

bought in the room, which never happens

in Netflix.

Netflix [clears throat] committed to the

entire first season.

Wow, finally, oh my god, finally, after

a swing and a miss and being beaned in

the face about 10 times,

I got something going.

Everything's going fine, everything's

going fine. Netflix doesn't like the

scripts.

The showrunner leaves. Rosamund has some

family issues. And just the wheels came

off the bus.

And what probably happened is Occam's

razor, probably just fell apart.

>> Mhm, cuz Hollywood stuff tends to and

the

>> Well, not not when you get to this

stage.

>> No, I know. I agree with you. All of it

just cut the burrows. Even though it was

Yeah.

>> Right, okay.

>> And then so I immediately went to was

there some polit- because okay,

meanwhile Netflix is making a bid for

Warner Brothers.

And so I immediately go is something

else at foot here and then I talked to

the that incredibly impressive woman at

Netflix who runs all their content

>> And she was very straight

>> She was very straight with me. She said

problems with the scripts,

you know, family issues for the lead and

this happens. And I believe that. I

believe that's what happened. But then

you see this thing get it the plug

pulled. I think the creative community

has basically said America is tired of

hearing about Big Tech

and there's a ton of there's a ton of um

second order risk around these stories

right now.

>> Yeah, that could be. It could be that

what's doing well and what's not. It'll

be interesting to see how the social

reckoning does, right? Uh although some

people say it's a mess of a script with

Aaron Sorkin. I haven't seen it. Um but

it's getting a big pull that's getting a

big push and that's the the second part

of the Facebook story. It's a it's a

it's an accompaniment to the social

network. Um but this time Sorkin and not

Fincher is directing which we'll see how

he does.

Um but you're right. It's like do we

want to see more about these [ __ ]

right? Like that kind of thing, I guess.

>> think the story of Big Tech is the

biggest story that's never been told. I

still think

>> someone's going to produce it. I think I

think Bezos and Musk and Sheryl Sandberg

and what I wanted

and they agreed to in the first season

was I actually think Sheryl Sandberg is

one of the more interesting characters

in Big Tech. I think she's actually in

many ways more interesting than Musk.

And but when you hear about these

people's lives

you just wouldn't believe it unless you

knew it was real. I think they're

incredibly complex, interesting, strange

people.

>> Petty.

>> And And stories

>> Angry, but unhappy. Yeah.

>> again, it's it really is and no one's

told it that well. It's the biggest

story that is yet to be told. People are

obsessed with obsessed with Succession.

News Corp is a pimple on the elephant of

Big Tech.

>> Right. You're right.

>> This story really hasn't been told yet.

>> to be? It's going to be theater and

opera. Like that I just have this

feeling there's going to be a theatrical

show or in that regard, right? Where

it's going to be told. Because I have a

couple ones going and I don't think

they'll ever get made. I just don't

think they will. Both my book, my

memoir, and then another one with Brad

Stone and I that we wrote years ago. We

wrote the treatment four years ago and

it's moving, but slowly. And the

question is do people want to watch?

Unless you make it really like

Succession worked cuz it was like

fantastic cast, fantastic script. You

know, rich people [ __ ] things up.

Really, I think it might have to wait a

step to get to these people, but they

will. They'll be gotten. They're amazing

characters in a terrible way.

Um speaking of uh things that are uh

crashing to the ground, SpaceX hype is

crashing. As we tape on Monday, SpaceX

shares are down to $167, down 17%,

valuing the company at 2.2 trillion,

still enormous. The stock is still up

24% from the IPO price, but uh down over

16% from its peak. Uh a lot of people

feel this is going to keep coming down.

I don't know, but some people are

buying. So, it will it have the effect

on the upcoming IPOs? Um and and let's

hear a question uh from a listener about

Elon's shares and his impact on the

company and then we can answer all these

questions.

>> So, if he tried to actually sell or

borrow against even a smaller percentage

of it tomorrow, what happens to the

price? If he dies or is incapacitated

tonight, what's the stock really worth

the next morning?

>> Zero.

Zero. Like oh my god, that would be look

out [ __ ] below, but your thoughts?

>> Well, my understanding is this there's a

lot of nuance there. My understanding is

he's agreed to a self-lockup of a year.

So, he hasn't sold he's not selling any

shares.

>> could borrow against it.

>> That's exactly right. And he can borrow

way more than he would could ever spend

against it.

>> rich people do that, Scott, for people

that don't understand. Borrow Borrow

against your stock.

>> Okay, so the the ultimate wealth

accumulation and income inequality

strategy is the following. If you're

fortunate enough to have equity in a

company that does real really well, it's

called the buy,

borrow, die strategy.

And that is Jeff Bezos owns $120 billion

in Amazon shares. And to fund his

lifestyle, he borrows against it at very

low interest rates.

And then he puts a lot of it in trust.

And when he dies, there's a step-up in

valuation, so his kid don't have kids

don't have to pay taxes on it. Or when

he actually starts selling, he decides

he needs to spend more time with his fam

with his dad in Florida such that he

doesn't have to pay back the cost of the

infrastructure of the great state of

Washington that built his $120 billion

in fortune.

And the greatest the greatest

distinction between the wealthy and the

not wealthy is the following. Are you an

earner or are you an owner? And you want

to do everything you can, whether it's

tax-free investment vehicles, getting

the money out of your hands, auto

automatic investment every month. You

have to get to be an owner cuz the thing

about owning stock or houses or assets

is they increase in value tax-deferred.

What do I mean by that? If you make a

$100,000 a year, you're an asset

increasing your wealth by $100,000, but

you lose 30% of it in taxes. Whereas, if

your stocks go up $100,000,

as long as you don't sell, there's no

taxable event. Now, what should happen

is that we need new laws such that when

you borrow against your assets, it

creates a taxable event on the on the

capital or the asset you're borrowing

against.

Because what effectively has happened is

the owners are just pulling away

from the earners. It's never sell your

stock, let it keep going up, and borrow

against it for your lifestyle needs. And

then you can take additional capital and

start investing in other things and

diversifying.

And we're going to have a the last 20,

30 years in America, we've been obsessed

with how to create wealth. Over the next

10 years, we're going to have a very

important conversation around what do

you do and what is expected of wealth.

Did that make any sense?

>> Yes, it did. Okay. But now what's going

to happen with this stock? So I mean

because he let's assume he's not going

to be incapacitated or dead or but he

will borrow against it if he needs the

money. I mean how much money does he

actually need if he wants to say fund

presidential election, for example.

>> He owns he's worth a trillion dollars.

He can he can go to JP Morgan and say,

"Loan me $10 billion."

>> Right.

>> And they're not going to ask him what

he's doing with it and he could

literally overwhelm the airwaves and and

social media with his chosen

candidates. Is the stock going to go

down? Okay, let me just be clear. SpaceX

trades at a price-to-sales ratio. Well,

let's let's do it the other way. Apple

trades at 10 and 1/2 times

price-to-sales. Alphabet, 11. Tesla, 16.

Nvidia, 39. By the way, all these

companies growing faster except for

Tesla than SpaceX. SpaceX trades at 131.

Meta, an amazing company, trades at 7.3.

Amazon trades at 3.7.

So

>> Amazon 3.7?

>> 3.7.

>> Oh my god, 10 is usually the thing,

right? 10 to 15, correct? 12

>> Yeah, those are higher margin companies.

Amazon's in a low margin business. I

think I think the the only stock in all

of these that I would buy right now is

Amazon. Because what you get is you get

a distant number two to SpaceX with the

core business

of the retail platform. If you want to

talk about AI, the adjacent AI plays to

go after industrial robots of which

Amazon has two and a half times the

total amount of America.

>> If you're FedEx, you have to be worried,

too. Same thing.

>> If I could go [clears throat] if I could

go short any category right now, it

would be a basket of the secondary eye

players. And if I could go long any

category, it would be a GLP-1s. I don't

know if you've seen what's coming out of

the American clinical oncology

gathering, but they're now saying that

metastatic cancers

get cut in half the growth rates when

people are on GLP-1s. Anyway, will it

come down?

>> foods, as you said, 2 years ago, you

know, the

the cuts in prices for Doritos and for

all that shitty food

is really quite significant. People,

there's now not enough cottage cheese

around and yogurt and things like, you

know, it's really interesting like in

terms of how people's tastes have

shifted cuz one in eight Americans is on

this drug at this point.

>> it's going to be one in two.

>> I agree. I agree.

>> You're going to I I my prediction is

both of us are on GLP-1s, some form or

microdosing.

>> to start. My cardiologist was like,

we're going to not have your stroke ever

again. We're going to give you a small

amount. I'm going to do it. I have to

start.

>> They're talking about potential

potential delay of dementia and

Alzheimer's. They're finding out

>> No, my cardiologist was like, absolutely

we're doing it for you.

>> They're just finding out all sorts of

I there's never been an innovation that

appears to have second order effects

that are this positive. You usually find

externalities that are negative.

You know, you get you blast someone with

chemo enough, they get leukemia 20 years

later, right? There's big tech, all

sorts of externalities. The

externalities of GLP-1,

uh you know, and there there are issues

around nausea, muscle loss, but the

every time they do more research, they

keep finding out better and better

things.

>> is the biggest test case. It'll be

interesting to see what the negative

There are some negative effects and

stuff like that, but it's a little like

a statin, you know.

But one of the things is people eating

whole foods and craving things that

protein

that protein-related healthy proteins,

um which is really interesting. Anyway,

we'll see. I I would agree with you. Um,

you called this one very hard two years

ago at least, if you recall. I remember

this. I remember being struck by it.

Anyway, SpaceX shares. Good luck if you

buy them. And let's not hope Elon dies

or is incapacitated tonight. Um, cuz it

is a look out below for that stock,

correct? I mean, let's just answer his

question. If something happens to him,

that price Even though SpaceX is a very

fine business, it's not a very fine

business. It's just a telco in the sky,

essentially, without

>> No, the meme, the cult leader of the

meme.

>> No, cannot

>> that would be, yeah, that would be, uh,

Yeah, I I I I got to believe that would

be disastrous for for Tesla and for

SpaceX. He's, yeah, 100%.

>> the one. He's the key man. Anyway, one

more quick break. We'll be back for wins

and fails.

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>> Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and

fails.

>> My win is uh tourists in the US for the

World Cup.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Uh yeah, I think international fans are

leaving the World Cup raving about

America, our food. I mean, it's just

hilarious that "They love your Waffle

House." I mean, it's just like

They

>> Boston and the Scottish the Tartan Army

was delightful.

>> Uh what what what the world is finding

out is that America at its core,

distinctive podcasters like us and and

Trump, America [clears throat]

Americans are generous, interesting,

wonderful people, and it's an amazing

culture, and they're getting to see

that. And then Americans are getting to

see just how wonderful

these nations are.

And I like I said, I think the World Cup

is doing what the UN initially

envisioned it would do. I think it's

bringing people together. These viral

online videos show fans excited about

American food,

uh our huge portions, Chipotle, Shake

Shack, and many more. Visitors to to NYC

were able to be part of the legendary

Knicks parade.

The World Cup has attracted a projected

10 million visitors. Airbnb searches in

host cities jumped 80% year-on-year.

Visitors are staying about 12 days,

attending two matches, and spending over

$400 a day on average.

Uh New York City's tourism chief, Julie

Coker,

likened the boost to hosting as many as

eight Super Bowls in 6 weeks. I I just

think the World Cup I think FIFA is one

of the most corrupt organizations in

sport, but I think the World Cup is just

incredible.

>> It's the fans. They were just the fans

are delightful.

>> But you see you see people in Kansas

welcoming,

you know, these people from Norway. You

see the Japanese I I I just it really is

I think we forget that generally

speaking these cultures are wonderful.

>> And we're not Trump.

>> Yeah, generally speaking people want to

get along. Generally we're not that

divided. We just have the most

profitable companies in the world trying

to divide us.

>> And we have a president who's trying to

divide us. It's just is. Like I mean, I

think you know what I'm struck by here

is you get the feeling and this is just

being in France for a short time is they

really

want to like us. Like I know you know

what I mean? Like I had so many

Europeans like

testing to see are you one of those

people Americans? And you're not and

then they're like thrilled to have you

there one I have to say everyone's been

really lovely everywhere we've gone. And

I do think there's a backlash happening

Scott. I do. People are like

>> Mhm.

>> They're I'm tired of being angry at

these [ __ ] I'm like let's just get

rid of them. Let's just move along and

like and you're right the World Cup I

I know you don't think as much as the

Knicks but I think the Knicks thing like

it's just there's a feeling I think

you're absolutely right. I would agree

with you. These and this is these people

want to like us. They want to like us in

a lot of ways. So

>> My fail and this is indicative of of

social media is that Polymarket is

flooding social media with fake trading

videos.

Uh there was a great I think the Wall

Street Journal is doing a great job.

They did an analysis and found the

Polymarket paid dozens of college age

creators to post videos of fake trades

and fake wins on the platform.

So one of the videos for example

uh shows a young man that saying he won

$100,000 on a bet that Trump would say

McDonald's in public but in reality all

of the economy all the all of the

accounts that made the bet uh the money.

And to make these clips

>> Ugh, the gross.

>> Polymarket built copies of its website

and then told creators to make quote

trades on those sites and hide that they

were being paid by Polymarket.

>> Scammers.

>> So, uh by the way, I feel I should

disclose that at Prophet Markets we have

a data partnership with Kalshi.

>> Gambling and gaming for young men is

really corrosive and I still can't

resolve what to do about it cuz you

don't want to infantilize young people

and

it's a tough one, but at a minimum

these companies shouldn't be posting

fake social media posts that show

someone winning when they didn't.

It's just it's preying on their worst

instincts and it's not it's

disingenuous.

>> Yeah, it's just just do your business.

If people want to use it, you don't have

to like

>> And these are great businesses, but

Polymarket's audience is 70% male and

the most common age demographic is 25 to

34, so again, it's young men.

And a plural And guess this.

>> Can I use a comparison? You know those

two when you were after Robinhood for a

while and then the other people that you

worked with, Public?

>> Public, yeah, public.com.

>> They seem like the Robinhood people,

Polymarket people. I don't know.

>> Well, they're especially aggressive and

I have problems with all of it. I don't

I don't have moral clarity about all of

it quite frankly any of it, but

the deceptive marketing mostly affects

young men and and just evidence of who

they're targeting

a plurality of Polymarket's display ads

are on what site? I'll give you a guess.

Young men. They're trying to reach young

men.

>> Twitter.

>> Pornhub.

>> Pornhub, uh-huh, that makes sense.

>> So, this is

and again, I don't know if you can

regulate this. They'll say it's free

speech, everybody's making money,

but this does feel like deceptive

marketing.

Anyways, that's my feel.

>> That's a good feel. That's I agree with

you. I think you're I mean, it is. It's

just Why do you have to trick people?

Just You make a good card.

>> People love this stuff. They love the

prediction markets. The data is

interesting.

>> to do that to people. They just stupid.

It's just con people.

Um my fail is the the way the

Republicans are continuing to attack

James Talarico over his sexuality, which

is I think it must be Trump mistook sis

word sis gendered for six genders or

something. But Steven Miller is

particularly heinous in terms and

especially cuz he's such a loathsome

creature. Um uh

it's just it's grotesque. It's really

grotesque and weird and I hope it

doesn't work. I fear it might. Uh but

this this idea of of of

accusing someone of being transgender

and this so it continues. And especially

Ted Cruz. I mean honestly, I hate to say

he should know better, but I guess he

doesn't. But Miller and Cruz and a lot

of them are just grotesque. It's just

gross. It's I've never seen anything

like this and it's really hateful and

cruel and you know, and especially cuz

these particular men are particularly

loathsome men at the same time. And so I

think that's just I just can't stand it.

I Every time I see them do it and they

keep doing it. They must to be seeing

some polling or something. But and

they're also terrible people. Um it's

just gross. Like

I don't even so it's misogynist, it's

transphobic, it's it's definitely uh

it's all manner of weirdness on these

people's part and just I again, a bunch

of people I cannot wait to see go away

at some point relatively soon and we

never have to speak of them again.

That's how I feel about a lot of these

people. Um on the positive side, um I do

I do um

really thrilled to see Toy Story did so

well. It's one of my favorite movie

>> franchises. I The third one I lost I

lost it at the end of that one about

It's about It's about toys and it's

about everything. And this one is, you

know, focused in on empathy, focused in

on all the good things we've been

talking about in this show. And

I haven't seen it yet. I want I have my

kids at my little I saw the other ones

obviously with my older kids cuz it's

been so long. This is the fifth one. And

it sometimes you get to five you're like

you got to be kidding kids or you just

want to sell toys. But the the reviews

for this and I have not I want to see it

in the theater speaking of which.

And we're going to we I've downloaded

all of them here and I'm hoping to watch

all four movies with the little ones and

then take them to it. Um I just feel

like what a what an astonishing

franchise it's been and it's just I dare

you not to cry at almost any of them. I

just [laughter]

I cry and I don't cry.

That last the third one just killed me.

Just killed me.

And I don't know why. I just it's just

beautiful. And this one's about stuff

that's not not it's about digital but it

doesn't demonize digital. It just talks

about play with kids. And I and I'm very

excited to see it. So I'm really happy

for the Pixar people for putting out a

great film. And I'm excited to see it.

>> Well, you know what my

>> What? Go ahead. Sorry.

>> You know what my

uh ex-wife said when I came home and

found her [ __ ] Woody?

>> Oh, no.

>> She said she looked at me said she said

you have a friend in me.

>> Oh my god. How could you do this to me?

>> Come on. That's easy.

>> No. That's

>> That's easy.

>> worst. That is the I'm not going with

you to this movie and you're not getting

near my children. I'm on this trip to

Can.

I can't. I'm pronouncing it right.

Can't. Anyway.

>> [clears throat]

>> Can't. Can't. I don't Thank you for

ruining my beautiful gorgeous moment

about children play and everything else.

I truly appreciate it. You're not

allowed to go to this movie in any way.

All right, stop. Stop. Stop right now.

Anyway. So Scott, I'm looking forward to

seeing you. I might see you at a party

tonight. Maybe I won't see you at a

party. But I want to ride on that

>> You know Toy Story 6 is about Andy's

>> is about his

>> [clears throat]

>> No. No. No. No. No.

>> I'm serious. Toy Story 6 is about Andy's

mother's toys, which coincidentally are

also called Woody and Buzz.

>> Oh my god. All right. We're not playing.

You have ruined my win. Those are so

bad.

Those are so bad. They're so bad and

they're so sad.

>> turn on your cameras. Are the producers

laughing? That's my litmus test. Or do

they have their head in their hands?

>> Afterwards, they'll go, "Uh Scott, do we

really want to do this?" And we're going

to. So, that's the way That's That's

where Lera goes, "Uh like that." That's

the voice.

>> There we go.

>> Anyway, I will see you in person at

live. We're going to have lots of people

there. It'll be fun. I think it is sold

out. Um

we are and I am also doing a live

interview with Jim Bankoff and Meredith

Levien.

Uh from the New York Times. Oh, stop.

Stop.

>> [laughter]

>> I mean, that sounds really interesting.

>> Yeah, it's going to

>> hosting that?

>> Yeah, it's going to be great.

>> to talk about geoengineering the forest

service.

>> Listen, dirty [clears throat]

dirty

>> I'm going to see Team Scotland at the at

the Crane Club pop-up on the pallet

tomorrow at midnight. Then I'm going to

the Spotify party. Who wants to roll

with the dog? Who wants to roll with the

dog?

>> I will see you in a few days, Scott. And

we want to hear from you also, our

listeners. Send us your questions about

business, tech, or whatever's on your

mind, including Scott's filthy filthy

brain this week. Go to nymag.com/pivot

to submit a question for the show or

call 855-51

pivot or elsewhere in the Karen Scott

universe. This week on On with Kara

Swisher, I talked to Harvey Levin,

founder of the celebrity news juggernaut

TMZ, who I adore, about its new

Washington D.C. bureau and expanded

political coverage. Let's listen to a

clip.

>> I do want to just say one thing, that

you know, you're referring to this as,

you know, politicians being a form of

celebrities.

>> Right. Yeah. You can push that.

>> I don't view it that way.

>> Okay.

>> Um I view it as pop culture. We cover

pop culture. And pop culture can be a

lot of things. You know, it can be

sports, it can be entertainment, and pop

culture is politics because a lot of the

things that affect everybody emanates

from Washington D.C.

And um and it emanates from the courts,

it emanates from Congress, from the

president, and it affects all of us. So,

they are an integral part of pop

culture. So, to me, it has never been a

stretch.

>> It's a really good interview. They've

tried for years to do this. He's a great

guy. And by the way, they're breaking

some stories. I have to say that they

really are. They're like when they took

those pictures of politicians during the

shutdown, like like Lindsey Graham with

his bubble wand Disneyland. I think

they're doing an excellent job. Reminds

me of the old Washington Post which used

to

do this kind of stuff, a mix of things.

Anyway, he's great. I've known him for

many, many years. I like Harvey a lot. I

think he's a really interesting

entrepreneur in media. He's one of the

OG ones. Okay, that's the show. Thanks

for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like

and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

We'll be back on Friday live from

Cannes.

>> [music]